Would Paizo ever buy the rights to the DnD brand from Hasbro?


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Stebehil wrote:


I still struggle with the current edition, so I won´t need PF2 for years to come, if at all. I think a reworked core rulebook could be an idea, but rather from an organizational view and for minor rules changes or updates, not a new edition. Honestly, I don´t think I will ever need PF2 at all.

I've always dreamed of an alternate core rule book, which provides a different mix of races, classes, and spells, that also has the actual core rules (combat, movement, etc). Spells in particular are one of my pet peeves when it comes to newbs - a lot of the low level spells don't follow the general rules for spells because they are wonky grandfathered spells from prior editions (e.g., magic missle and its lack of a to-hit roll, ray of enfeeblement can't crit because it's a penalty rather than stat drain, etc.) I'd like to see a core rulebook that is newb friendly by eliminating the grandfathered elements and focusing on clean and simple executions of the core concepts of the game.


Sebastian wrote:
Stebehil wrote:


I still struggle with the current edition, so I won´t need PF2 for years to come, if at all. I think a reworked core rulebook could be an idea, but rather from an organizational view and for minor rules changes or updates, not a new edition. Honestly, I don´t think I will ever need PF2 at all.
I've always dreamed of an alternate core rule book, which provides a different mix of races, classes, and spells, that also has the actual core rules (combat, movement, etc). Spells in particular are one of my pet peeves when it comes to newbs - a lot of the low level spells don't follow the general rules for spells because they are wonky grandfathered spells from prior editions (e.g., magic missle and its lack of a to-hit roll, ray of enfeeblement can't crit because it's a penalty rather than stat drain, etc.) I'd like to see a core rulebook that is newb friendly by eliminating the grandfathered elements and focusing on clean and simple executions of the core concepts of the game.

yes! Finally an answer to the Wizard balance problem! Lets take away magic missile and make sure no wizard ever gets to level 2!

But seriously-- spells break the rules. Changing them so that they are all exactly the same would be pretty silly. Feats break the rules too. That's how a game like this works-- you have general rules, then abilities that break/modify those rules.

I bet PF could sell a lot of extra copies of a streamlined core rulebook where they took out a lot of the GM centered material and cut its size and price point in half-- even people with the core book might be willing to buy a reprint that put just the things he really needed in a tight bag friendly package.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
Nathanael Love wrote:
But seriously-- spells break the rules. Changing them so that they are all exactly the same would be pretty silly. Feats break the rules too. That's how a game like this works-- you have general rules, then abilities that break/modify those rules.

You seem to be discounting the idea that things can be changed for the better without making them all the same.

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

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Nathanael Love wrote:

yes! Finally an answer to the Wizard balance problem! Lets take away magic missile and make sure no wizard ever gets to level 2!

No idea who or what you're responding to, but it wasn't to my point. Go b##&% about balance to someone who's interested in having that discussion with you. Wizards could still take magic missile because it's in the main CRB; my proposal is for a parallel CRB with different classes/spells/feats/etc. featured.

My point is that the core rulebook isn't necessarily filled with feats and spells that reinforce the core concepts of the game. Example: a new player learns they can critically hit with a ray spell. What ray spell can they take in the core rule book at 1st level? Ray of Enfeeblement, which can't crit! I'm not saying get Ray of Enfeeblement is too powerful, but replacing it with a ray spell that actually follows the general rules for ray spells will help teach a new player how to use ray spells (though I suppose Ray of Frost is also conveniently available at 0 level). If you're going to deviate sharply from the generic ray spell rules (or the generic stat damage rules), save it for higher level spells that are less likely to be encountered by a newb.

Yes, I get that spells and feats break the rules, but they also help in teaching the game. The current grab bag of spells reflect the legacy of the game and it couldn't hurt to revisit what to include/not include if a product is needed with a slightly different focus (e.g., teaching newbs). No where did I advocate the absurd braindead version of the rules that you made up and then incorrectly attributed to me.

I suspect you'll follow-up with further posts in which you introduce various straw-men based around core rule books where the only classes are fighter, expert, and sorcerer, but I will leave the responses to those posts to the scarecrows to whom they are addressed.


When you suggest that you should make Magic Missile have to roll to hit you have to expect people don't think its a good idea.

You weren't clear that you meant a different selection of spells in the book compared to removing the spells altogether.

And though I've never looked at them, I assume that's what the beginner box is for-- teaching newbs. The corebook was/is clearly aimed at the largest possible base of players. (and yes, many of us want the classes and spells and features that we enjoyed previously. after all-- PF came into existence as a continuation of previous editions slightly modified INSTEAD of throwing the baby out with the bath water.)

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

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Nathanael Love wrote:
When you suggest that you should make Magic Missile have to roll to hit you have to expect people don't think its a good idea.

Except that's not what I suggested. You said that. I said magic missle is not newb friendly because it doesn't follow the general rules. Try to keep up here.

Nathanael Love wrote:
You weren't clear that you meant a different selection of spells in the book compared to removing the spells altogether.

And yet, even after I've made it clear, you've still been responding as if I'm proposing a revised version of the rules instead of a re-cut version of the rules. As shown by...

Nathanael Love wrote:


And though I've never looked at them, I assume that's what the beginner box is for-- teaching newbs. The corebook was/is clearly aimed at the largest possible base of players. (and yes, many of us want the classes and spells and features that we enjoyed previously. after all-- PF came into existence as a continuation of previous editions slightly modified INSTEAD of throwing the baby out with the bath water.)

Just to make sure we're clear, I'm not actually proposing changing the rules. I'm proposing a core rule book which takes certain elements of the game not featured in the core rules (e.g., spells, feats, classes, races, etc. from other sources), perhaps combining them with new elements (e.g., a spell like magic missile, that isn't actually magic missile, but that has an attack roll and does damage), and releasing the whole shabam as a standalone product (which still has access to all the old grandfathered stuff, just not in that particular version of the core rule book). No part of this proposal includes taking existing books from your home or traveling through time to alter the contents of the original CRB to change the audience or its function. I'm well aware of the events leading to the current CRB, I generally think it's pretty damn awesome, and I was just spouting off about one particular product type that I've always thought would be groovy (an alternate CRB) and specifically mentioned that the spell issue is a pet peeve (pet peeve != OMG MAJOR DESIGN FLAW) when you decided I was attacking game balance, apple pie, and generally tilting at historical windmills.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Nathanael Love wrote:
I bet PF could sell a lot of extra copies of a streamlined core rulebook where they took out a lot of the GM centered material and cut its size and price point in half-- even people with the core book might be willing to buy a reprint that put just the things he really needed in a tight bag friendly package.

Sorry—the GM-centric information just isn't even *close* to half the book. Chapters 12 and 14 for sure, and part of 13... but even if you took all of 13, those 3 chapters add up to just 62 out of 576 pages. Sure, you'll find a few other small bits here and there—the next biggest probably being the 6-page section on creating magic items—but you'll have a hard time finding even a third of the 288 pages you need to constitute "half." (In other words, the GM-only content is about 10–15% of the book.)


Vic Wertz wrote:
Nathanael Love wrote:
I bet PF could sell a lot of extra copies of a streamlined core rulebook where they took out a lot of the GM centered material and cut its size and price point in half-- even people with the core book might be willing to buy a reprint that put just the things he really needed in a tight bag friendly package.
Sorry—the GM-centric information just isn't even *close* to half the book. Chapters 12 and 14 for sure, and part of 13... but even if you took all of 13, those 3 chapters add up to just 62 out of 576 pages. Sure, you'll find a few other small bits here and there—the next biggest probably being the 6-page section on creating magic items—but you'll have a hard time finding even a third of the 288 pages you need to constitute "half." (In other words, the GM-only content is about 10–15% of the book.)

I could get behind a Core Rulebook that ended at page 374-sort a "Player's Edition" if you will, with classes, races, feats, skills and spells and not much else. The GM would still want the Core book, but some players might appreciate the slimmer book (even if it wouldn't be much cheaper).


Eric "Boxhead" Hindley wrote:


I could get behind a Core Rulebook that ended at page 374-sort a "Player's Edition" if you will, with classes, races, feats, skills and spells and not much else. The GM would still want the Core book, but some players might appreciate the slimmer book (even if it wouldn't be much cheaper).

I've mentioned before that such a thing done as a smaller-format paperback might be attractive to PFS players to avoid lugging around the hardback core book.

Of course, if there were a way to split the magic and spell chapters off too (a second volume maybe, so only casters needed to buy it?) then you're down to 205 pages.


Matt Thomason wrote:
Eric "Boxhead" Hindley wrote:


I could get behind a Core Rulebook that ended at page 374-sort a "Player's Edition" if you will, with classes, races, feats, skills and spells and not much else. The GM would still want the Core book, but some players might appreciate the slimmer book (even if it wouldn't be much cheaper).

I've mentioned before that such a thing done as a smaller-format paperback might be attractive to PFS players to avoid lugging around the hardback core book.

Of course, if there were a way to split the magic and spell chapters off too (a second volume maybe, so only casters needed to buy it?) then you're down to 205 pages.

Why stop there-- why not a Sorc/Wizard one with just the most common feats for them and just their spells?

Then one for Clerics with just cleric spells?

And then you can put a the martials together with all the combat feats and the combat special maneuvers?


Nathanael Love wrote:
Matt Thomason wrote:

I've mentioned before that such a thing done as a smaller-format paperback might be attractive to PFS players to avoid lugging around the hardback core book.

Of course, if there were a way to split the magic and spell chapters off too (a second volume maybe, so only casters needed to buy it?) then you're down to 205 pages.

Why stop there-- why not a Sorc/Wizard one with just the most common feats for them and just their spells?

Then one for Clerics with just cleric spells?

And then you can put a the martials together with all the combat feats and the combat special maneuvers?

Then we'd have something dangerously close to 4e's essentials books ;)

Although personally I thought that it was actually a good concept, just executed badly by being too different to the 4e hardbacks and confusing people as to whether it was the same game or not.

But yeah, I do think that'd be a nice product to have. Whether it's worth Paizo's effort and whether it'd compete too much with the existing core rulebook is another matter, but it's certainly something I'd like to have the option to buy as a customer. If it meant a lower entry barrier (say, a $15-20 trade paperback) it might even get more people playing. I know I'd happily buy them as well as a core rulebook just for those times when a pocket-sized reference is preferred.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
Nathanael Love wrote:
But seriously-- spells break the rules. Changing them so that they are all exactly the same would be pretty silly. Feats break the rules too. That's how a game like this works-- you have general rules, then abilities that break/modify those rules.
You seem to be discounting the idea that things can be changed for the better without making them all the same.

In fairness, the pony is kinda saying the inverse of this.

He's not saying, "We will make Magic Missile better while keeping it unique."

He's saying, "We will devise an alternative that is more in-keeping with the standard rules so newbies don't get confused."

;)

Me, I actually think Magic Missile is a useful tool to show new players that spells can do things normal attacks can't, and it's fun since you always get to roll damage. But that's a discussion for another threa--aw, who am I kidding, as if this thread ever had a point.


Matt Thomason wrote:
Nathanael Love wrote:
Matt Thomason wrote:

I've mentioned before that such a thing done as a smaller-format paperback might be attractive to PFS players to avoid lugging around the hardback core book.

Of course, if there were a way to split the magic and spell chapters off too (a second volume maybe, so only casters needed to buy it?) then you're down to 205 pages.

Why stop there-- why not a Sorc/Wizard one with just the most common feats for them and just their spells?

Then one for Clerics with just cleric spells?

And then you can put a the martials together with all the combat feats and the combat special maneuvers?

Then we'd have something dangerously close to 4e's essentials books ;)

Although personally I thought that it was actually a good concept, just executed badly by being too different to the 4e hardbacks and confusing people as to whether it was the same game or not.

But yeah, I do think that'd be a nice product to have. Whether it's worth Paizo's effort and whether it'd compete too much with the existing core rulebook is another matter, but it's certainly something I'd like to have the option to buy as a customer. If it meant a lower entry barrier (say, a $15-20 trade paperback) it might even get more people playing. I know I'd happily buy them as well as a core rulebook just for those times when a pocket-sized reference is preferred.

I'd buy Sorc/Wiz in a heartbeat and if I ever played Cleric or Druid for very high level I'd buy that one too. It would essentially be a repackaging, but idk if that's something a lot of people want or just those of us whose bags sometimes get overfull and would love to have just "our" stuff in hardback for game sessions with all the PDFs on the laptop for the rest.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Matt Thomason wrote:
Nathanael Love wrote:
Matt Thomason wrote:


I've mentioned before that such a thing done as a smaller-format paperback might be attractive to PFS players to avoid lugging around the hardback core book. Of course, if there were a way to split the magic and spell chapters off too (a second volume maybe, so only casters needed to buy it?) then you're down to 205 pages.
Why stop there-- why not a Sorc/Wizard one with just the most common feats for them and just their spells? Then one for Clerics with just cleric spells? And then you can put a the martials together with all the combat feats and the combat special maneuvers?
Then we'd have something dangerously close to 4e's essentials books ;)

That's pretty much what he's suggesting and I just threw up alittle in my mouth.

If you want beginner's product, Pathfinder has that already...

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/products/beginnerbox

There you go.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Nathanael Love wrote:
I'd buy Sorc/Wiz in a heartbeat and if I ever played Cleric or Druid for very high level I'd buy that one too. It would essentially be a repackaging, but idk if that's something a lot of people want or just those of us whose bags sometimes get overfull and would love to have just "our" stuff in hardback for game sessions with all the PDFs on the laptop for the rest.

That's what CUSTOM pdfs and printers are for. ;)

My binder has some nice print outs from the PDFs of PAGES I need for characters, campaigns, whatever. I don't carry whole books around with me unless I'm actually using the whole book.


SirUrza wrote:
Matt Thomason wrote:
Nathanael Love wrote:


Why stop there-- why not a Sorc/Wizard one with just the most common feats for them and just their spells? Then one for Clerics with just cleric spells? And then you can put a the martials together with all the combat feats and the combat special maneuvers?
Then we'd have something dangerously close to 4e's essentials books ;)

That's pretty much what he's suggesting and I just threw up alittle in my mouth.

If you want beginner's product, Pathfinder has that already...

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/products/beginnerbox

There you go.

Yeah, but the point was to have a full (and PFS legal) reference in a handy small-format paperback, rather than a low-level beginner's version.


Stebehil wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Nathanael Love wrote:
Pan wrote:


So its possible that P2 could use 5E?
Is P2 really something that's happening? I thought everything I've heard about Paizo's philosophy suggests that they wouldn't ever reboot the system-- especially not 5 years in?
There is no sign of a Pathfinder 2 development even being considered on the horizon, only the postings of a determined minority that is fixated on the idea of planned obsolescence for Pathfinder. Given that the bulk of Pathfinder's initial audience came from a revolt of WOTC's edition change, such a move would not be made lightly, if at all.
I still struggle with the current edition, so I won´t need PF2 for years to come, if at all. I think a reworked core rulebook could be an idea, but rather from an organizational view and for minor rules changes or updates, not a new edition. Honestly, I don´t think I will ever need PF2 at all.

What he said.

I'd like to see a major revision of the CRB to include all errata, updates to Stealth, clarifications, corrections of stuff that came over from 3.5 by accident, and explanations of all the things we find confusing and FAQ-worthy. That seems reasonably likely to occur eventually.

I'd also like to see a 'Pathfinder Society Player Compendium' where all the gamemastery stuff is taken out and replaced with all base classes, all archetypes, all spells and so forth currently legal for Society Play, so that a player can buy this and be reasonably confident that it will contain all info she needs to build a character in PFS for whatever options she wants, without having to worry about getting a half-dozen splatbooks. (Until the next batch of splatbooks come out, of course.) That's probably a pipe dream, though, and it would probably be 50% bigger than the CRB and correspondingly expensive. That said, I could see it as being a viable product.

Sovereign Court

D&D should be shelved and forgotten. The last good thing that came out of D&D was Forgotten Realms 3.5 (pre-Spellplague). Then everything went south after that. (my perspective, mind you, which is highly biased as I had been a Realms fan since I was a fan boy... i mean literally a boy)

I mean what could Paizo possibly want out of D&D at this point? they have a successful game, a game world that goes with it, which is now supported by novels, minis, a computer game (is this out yet btw?) and I'm sure I'm missing some things here.

I heard rumors Mr. Ed Greenwood is now also doing something for them. Is this true? (feel free to linkify please)


Purple Dragon Knight wrote:


I heard rumors Mr. Ed Greenwood is now also doing something for them. Is this true? (feel free to linkify please)

I remember seeing Ed Greenwood credited as a contributor in the Kingmaker AP, so he has certainly done some work with Paizo.

Sovereign Court

Matt Thomason wrote:
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:


I heard rumors Mr. Ed Greenwood is now also doing something for them. Is this true? (feel free to linkify please)
I remember seeing Ed Greenwood credited as a contributor in the Kingmaker AP, so he has certainly done some work with Paizo.

nah... I just heard something recent 3 days ago... the guys were saying it's something pretty big, and for Paizo... a novel i think...


Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Matt Thomason wrote:
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:


I heard rumors Mr. Ed Greenwood is now also doing something for them. Is this true? (feel free to linkify please)
I remember seeing Ed Greenwood credited as a contributor in the Kingmaker AP, so he has certainly done some work with Paizo.
nah... I just heard something recent 3 days ago... the guys were saying it's something pretty big, and for Paizo... a novel i think...

It's not new, but do you mean this, maybe?


Matt Thomason wrote:
Nathanael Love wrote:
Matt Thomason wrote:

I've mentioned before that such a thing done as a smaller-format paperback might be attractive to PFS players to avoid lugging around the hardback core book.

Of course, if there were a way to split the magic and spell chapters off too (a second volume maybe, so only casters needed to buy it?) then you're down to 205 pages.

Why stop there-- why not a Sorc/Wizard one with just the most common feats for them and just their spells?

Then one for Clerics with just cleric spells?

And then you can put a the martials together with all the combat feats and the combat special maneuvers?

Then we'd have something dangerously close to 4e's essentials books ;)

Although personally I thought that it was actually a good concept, just executed badly by being too different to the 4e hardbacks and confusing people as to whether it was the same game or not.

I thought they were great. They did something similar early on with the various power books and the silo-based design of the various player handbooks.

It wasnt terribly popular though. It seemed to me that RPG players like buying books with all the rules (rather than a cheaper, "just what you need" option), although that might just be my bias speaking.

Shadow Lodge

Well, in the long run, if you play a game enough, you will probably want most, if not all, of the option books. That's more economical if they aren't separate books.


Kthulhu wrote:
Well, in the long run, if you play a game enough, you will probably want most, if not all, of the option books. That's more economical if they aren't separate books.

No doubt that's part of why people didn't like them. Rolling them out bit by bit is an issue too - hence the flak WotC took for "incomplete" player handbooks. But the alternative of releasing half a dozen at once is likely to both dilute demand and tie up capital.

I'd still like a pathfinder version though.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Matt Thomason wrote:
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:


I heard rumors Mr. Ed Greenwood is now also doing something for them. Is this true? (feel free to linkify please)
I remember seeing Ed Greenwood credited as a contributor in the Kingmaker AP, so he has certainly done some work with Paizo.
nah... I just heard something recent 3 days ago... the guys were saying it's something pretty big, and for Paizo... a novel i think...

He also did a dungeon level for the Thornkeep Kickstarter which in my earnest opinion, was rather underwhelming.

Sovereign Court

Steve Geddes wrote:
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Matt Thomason wrote:
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:


I heard rumors Mr. Ed Greenwood is now also doing something for them. Is this true? (feel free to linkify please)
I remember seeing Ed Greenwood credited as a contributor in the Kingmaker AP, so he has certainly done some work with Paizo.
nah... I just heard something recent 3 days ago... the guys were saying it's something pretty big, and for Paizo... a novel i think...
It's not new, but do you mean this, maybe?

coolness! when did this come out?

Sovereign Court

LazarX wrote:
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Matt Thomason wrote:
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:


I heard rumors Mr. Ed Greenwood is now also doing something for them. Is this true? (feel free to linkify please)
I remember seeing Ed Greenwood credited as a contributor in the Kingmaker AP, so he has certainly done some work with Paizo.
nah... I just heard something recent 3 days ago... the guys were saying it's something pretty big, and for Paizo... a novel i think...
He also did a dungeon level for the Thornkeep Kickstarter which in my earnest opinion, was rather underwhelming.

i haven't been on these boards for a while now... would you kindly point me to where I can find this?

Webstore Gninja Minion

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
i haven't been on these boards for a while now... would you kindly point me to where I can find this?

Pathfinder Online: Thornkeep module.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Ed has also written a level for next year's Emerald Spire Superdungeon—that's probably the big project mentioned in the original question.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Vic Wertz wrote:
Ed has also written a level for next year's Emerald Spire Superdungeon—that's probably the big project mentioned in the original question.

Feels like it's taking forever. :P

Paizo Employee Creative Director

SirUrza wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
Ed has also written a level for next year's Emerald Spire Superdungeon—that's probably the big project mentioned in the original question.
Feels like it's taking forever. :P

Conversely, from my viewpoint, it's the opposite! :-P

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
SirUrza wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
Ed has also written a level for next year's Emerald Spire Superdungeon—that's probably the big project mentioned in the original question.
Feels like it's taking forever. :P
Conversely, from my viewpoint, it's the opposite! :-P

That's interesting, does it feel like it sneaks up on you?

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Maps, Rulebook, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The deadline rolled high on its stealth check and James rolled low on his perception check.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

No... it's not that it's sneaking up or that I failed a perception check. It's more like I can see this 3,000 foot tall monster moving at a speed of 5 miles a day toward my town, and it's days or weeks or months away from HITTING the town but it's still probably gonna hit it before I've fully fortified the town against it's defenses.

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Did you not see Pacific Rim... fortifying the town won't work. The only way to stop it is to confront it with giant mecha!


James Jacobs wrote:
No... it's not that it's sneaking up or that I failed a perception check. It's more like I can see this 3,000 foot tall monster moving at a speed of 5 miles a day toward my town, and it's days or weeks or months away from HITTING the town but it's still probably gonna hit it before I've fully fortified the town against it's defenses.

Can't you just, like, grow the Paizo golem to the same size and send it out to do battle, then sit back and watch as they bash each other over the head with parts of the scenery?

(Although if it loses, I guess the new Paizo slogan will be "The golem's had it!")


Matt Thomason wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
No... it's not that it's sneaking up or that I failed a perception check. It's more like I can see this 3,000 foot tall monster moving at a speed of 5 miles a day toward my town, and it's days or weeks or months away from HITTING the town but it's still probably gonna hit it before I've fully fortified the town against it's defenses.

Can't you just, like, grow the Paizo golem to the same size and send it out to do battle, then sit back and watch as they bash each other over the head with parts of the scenery?

(Although if it loses, I guess the new Paizo slogan will be "The golem's had it!")

But again, he would need a second drift compatible pilot to get into the golem with or else the Kaiju would win or he'd end up with weird nose bleeds later in life. . .

Contributor

Matt Thomason wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
No... it's not that it's sneaking up or that I failed a perception check. It's more like I can see this 3,000 foot tall monster moving at a speed of 5 miles a day toward my town, and it's days or weeks or months away from HITTING the town but it's still probably gonna hit it before I've fully fortified the town against it's defenses.

Can't you just, like, grow the Paizo golem to the same size and send it out to do battle, then sit back and watch as they bash each other over the head with parts of the scenery?

(Although if it loses, I guess the new Paizo slogan will be "The golem's had it!")

James needs to be able to cast Mythic Time Stop. He lacks the ranks to do so, though. Instead he'll probably cast Brew Coffee and Create Stress.

Sovereign Court

is Pathfinder Online actually online now? i've been away for a while and I seem to be able to ascertain status for this game.


ARe there any good Pathfinder books. I read one that was way too short on action, so let me rephrase.

Are their any action packed Pathfinder novels? these guys are due for a "classic trilogy".

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Purple Dragon Knight,

Pathfinder Online is still in development. The easiest way to keep up with it is to check their blog.

Deyvantius,

There are about as many styles of Pathfinder Tales novel as there are authors. I'd suggest you try reading some of the free web fiction to figure out which authors suit your preference. (Not all novel writers have written web fiction, and not all web fiction authors have written novels, but quite a few have done both...)


Most of the Count Jeggare / Radovan novels (by Dave Gross) have lots of swashbuckling, spellslinging, sock-it-to-em action.


Vic Wertz wrote:
Nathanael Love wrote:
I bet PF could sell a lot of extra copies of a streamlined core rulebook where they took out a lot of the GM centered material and cut its size and price point in half-- even people with the core book might be willing to buy a reprint that put just the things he really needed in a tight bag friendly package.
Sorry—the GM-centric information just isn't even *close* to half the book. Chapters 12 and 14 for sure, and part of 13... but even if you took all of 13, those 3 chapters add up to just 62 out of 576 pages. Sure, you'll find a few other small bits here and there—the next biggest probably being the 6-page section on creating magic items—but you'll have a hard time finding even a third of the 288 pages you need to constitute "half." (In other words, the GM-only content is about 10–15% of the book.)

If we're talking a guide to running a character at a game, and that's it....

Cut most of chapter 1
Cut non combat feat descriptions from chapter 5, leave them in the table
Cut basically everything but the tables in chapter 6
Cut chapter 7
Cut a LOT of chapter 8
You could hypothetically cut the full spell descriptions and have it direct you to the core book, but we'll assume not for now
Cut 12-14
Cut Everything but price charts and wondrous items (cut some of them?) from magic items, direct to CRB if necessary
And you could probably cut the appendices (at least inspired reading which is like a page)

Total new page count?
~400
~300 if you take out spells

So about half. That's still a pretty good size book. I'd rather people just buy the PDF and print what they think they'll need.
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More on topic

If hasbro stopped using the DnD name, the trademark would expire. You can't hold onto trademarks forever without using them. You can't hold onto copyrights forever either, but they do last a while and even if they aren't in use. But if they stopped making RPGs but kept doing other stuff under the name, they'd still be able to stop people from using the trademark in RPGs, unless it was something just absolutely crazy and entirely unrelated but named the same, and then just maybe, and not for a very long time from now.


Davick wrote:


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More on topic

If hasbro stopped using the DnD name, the trademark would expire. You can't hold onto trademarks forever without using them. You can't hold onto copyrights forever either, but they do last a while and even if they aren't in use. But if they stopped making RPGs but kept doing other stuff under the name, they'd...

Wrong. First off, as long as they have some product with the name on it there's no possibility-- and with DDO and the Novels still around even if they went 20 years without putting out an RPG book they'd be safe.

Second, now that we have websites it probable that just the existence of their website with a few updates every now and again would be enough to maintain it.

Third-- Mickey Mouse. He's supposed to be public domain now. Actually based on when Steamboat Willy came out Mickey Mouse is supposed to have become public domain several times over. Each time Disney has had the influence to lobby to get the IP rules changed. Essentially nothing is ever going that way again.

Shadow Lodge

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Yeah...anything newer than Micky Mouse will not go over to public domain within the lifetime of your great-great-great grandchildren.


Nathanael Love wrote:
Davick wrote:


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More on topic

If hasbro stopped using the DnD name, the trademark would expire. You can't hold onto trademarks forever without using them. You can't hold onto copyrights forever either, but they do last a while and even if they aren't in use. But if they stopped making RPGs but kept doing other stuff under the name, they'd...

Wrong. First off, as long as they have some product with the name on it there's no possibility-- and with DDO and the Novels still around even if they went 20 years without putting out an RPG book they'd be safe.

Second, now that we have websites it probable that just the existence of their website with a few updates every now and again would be enough to maintain it.

Third-- Mickey Mouse. He's supposed to be public domain now. Actually based on when Steamboat Willy came out Mickey Mouse is supposed to have become public domain several times over. Each time Disney has had the influence to lobby to get the IP rules changed. Essentially nothing is ever going that way again.

Yeah. I said that. Its possible for someone to open a DnD dry cleaners. I've actually seen a DnD auto shop. If they aren't in the RPG business anymore it becomes that much harder to show actual consumer confusion if someone is selling an RPG.

And mickey mouse is a copyright issue. And when he was created, US copyright was in fact awful and needed fixing. The longest extension of that copyright came from the much needed overhaul in the 70s. But again, if they aren't using the DnD name, why would they lobby to extend it? Which is moderately relevant since we're talking trademark.


Davick wrote:


Yeah. I said that. Its possible for someone to open a DnD dry cleaners. I've actually seen a DnD auto shop. If they aren't in the RPG business anymore it becomes that much harder to show actual consumer confusion if someone is selling an RPG.

Heh, I just googled "D&D", and found:

http://www.danddlondon.com/

http://d-dfarmandranch.com/

Both on the first page of results.


Kthulhu wrote:
Yeah...anything newer than Micky Mouse will not go over to public domain within the lifetime of your great-great-great grandchildren.

I doubt that.

There are things newer than mickey mouse in public domain right now due to the archaic rules we used to have.


So it seems important to ask, "Dungeons and Dragons Auto Body Repair and Paint," or "D&D Auto Body Shop"? Because one would seem to violate trademark law while the other would be named after Dale and Don.


BigDTBone wrote:
So it seems important to ask, "Dungeons and Dragons Auto Body Repair and Paint," or "D&D Auto Body Shop"? Because one would seem to violate trademark law while the other would be named after Dale and Don.

That appears to be one of those weird parts of Trademark law that isn't strictly defined, and ends up needing a court case to come to a decisive settlement over, as I believe the ambiguity of the trademark is taken into account as much as the closeness of the products. "Dungeons and Dragons" is pretty explicitly referring to those particular terms, while initials and acronyms get more flexibility.

On the other hand, if Dale and Don start writing books and sticking "D&D" logos on them, they're probably looking at needing a lawyer pretty soon.

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