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I've taken it upon myself to work towards the creation of a love child between Pathfinder (the ruleset) and D20 Modern (the setting, etc). However, I need your help!
I'm taking care of the rule conversion and this is what I have on my:
To-Do-List:
- Convert and Update Skills
- Add in CMB/CMD
- Add Pathfinder feats as needed and retool for balance d20 Modern feats
- KEEP Vitality/Wound System
- The integration of the Favored Class rules as provided by Pathfinder RPG
- KEEP action points, but balance on a Pathfinder level
- Create a professional looking Character Sheet which takes obvious roots from Pathfinder, but is self identified as Modern
Here's where you come in:
Chime in on this board. A lot of people have expressed that D20 Modern is unbalanced. Let's give it the Pathfinder overhaul and make it a balanced rebuild.
To-Determine:
- The value of the base classes as D20 Modern presents them. How can they be retooled to gain a level of balance and excitement while still providing an encompassing capture of the human experience (in classes)
- The value of the "advanced" classes. Are they necessary or desired as a whole? How can they be retooled so as to provide a myriad of flexible experiences without overwhelming the players by shear number of classes. I'd really like the opportunity to do "kits" in the vein of what the APG provided with Pathfinder Core Classes
- Other rules to be determined on a need-to-be-addressed basis
Are you up to that task and willing? I want to create an encompassing OGL game that we can all enjoy on our own, or that Paizo can pickup and stick a hardcover on with minimal retooling. with your help, I know that it's possible.
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what do you wanna change exactly?
what do you want to add to classes?
Personally, I don't know that I'd change much of anything. I never noticed that they were unbalanced, but apparently a lot of others did. Since I'm doing this for the community as a whole, and not for myself only, I figure they should have a say.
However, your questions are exactly what I want others to answer.
Update 1:
- Merged Investigate and Research into one skill
- Renamed Life and Earth Sciences to Organic Sciences for space constraints
- Eliminated Art as a knowledge since it could fit into either history or pop culture
- Merged Current Events into Pop Culture
- Eliminated Streetwise, which could fit into survival
- Eliminated Navigate as it could be covered by survival
- Merged Read/Write and Speak Languages into Linguistics. Proposal: Those with it as a class skill (through class, feat, or trait) get full proficiency of a language per rank. Those with it as a cross-class gain either speak or read/write per rank.
I liked the concept of 6 more or less general base classes for building characters. However in practice in my play group I found people tended to gravitate toward Fast heros above anything else.
Fast heroes by far and away outclass all others, save perhaps the Smart Hero in a more techie based setting. Fast heroes triple dip Ranged Attack (primary combat mode in Modern), Armor Class, and Reflex save (which was already Good).
Now logic would say we should nerf bat the crud out of the Fast Hero... but considering how low power many of the traits are compared even to 3.5 base class abilities it may be advisable to actually bring everything else up to the Fast Hero's balance and keep the Fast Hero as is.
I would point out that with the PF skill Rank system, there will be some major improvements in Modern Multi-Classing (the core components of Modern). One thing to do would be cut back on class skill, especially in Advanced Classes.
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Before base classes there is another question, backwards compatibly?
Considering how very little published Modern material (of quality) there was by WotC that almost seem rather pointless. I'd also point out at this time that Modern is essentially a 3.25 game so it's going to get quite some modifications regardless of attempts at backwards compatibly or not. My only consideration is for various 3rd Party Material. I think mainly of material by the folks at www.thegamemechanics.com. Good expansions on a system that saw very little love by WotC.
Considerations:
• Races; Modern assumed human to be the base and wrote that into the class. Then had to countermand that in Urban Arcana. I personally suggest not making that mistake, as it would make including Roswell aliens and like much easier.
Add To-Determine:
• Replacement reward system on the purchase DCs?
• Scarp/Rebuild purchase DC system?
Add To-Do
• Offsite collection point for rewrites. (either a Wiki or perhaps GoogleDocs)
• Make sure everyone is up on legal aspects of OGL, PF Compatibility License if possible, and such.
Allegiance, not Alignment, wasn't ever an extremely big part of Modern.
At most it's impact was limited to
An allegiance can create an empathic bond with others of the same allegiance. With the GM’s permission, the character gains a +2 circumstance bonus on Charisma-based skill checks when dealing with someone of the same allegiance—as long as the character has had some interaction with the other character to discover the connections and bring the bonus into play.
Bold my emphasis.
However that brings up a side issue of magic in the core Modern. I'd say leave it alone for the moment, but build with an eye toward how Modern can expand into different setting types.
So speaking of hooks I say leave Allegiances as is. This allows GMs to slide them in and out as required, to the point of evening bring back in Good <--> Evil, Law <--> Chaos if desired on an individual game level.
*edit*
With magic we could just have Detect Allegiance, which reveals one or more Allegiances the target has.
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Relevant, +1 stuff
I agree. Let's perhaps keep fast hero as is, and bring the others up to par.
As far as backwards compatibility goes, I'd like enough that one's books like d20 future, past, weapons locker don't go to waste. Then again, those things are nothing we can't put together.
Races: All "Core" races plus modern options should be assumed. Naturally, Human would be dominant, but I liked how Urban Arcana suggested that other races appeared human to everyday citizens. I definitely want to make this system in the vein of Urban Arcana.
I like the wealth system. It does need some polishing though.
A wiki... genius!
As for the legal... that isn't too tough, right? Since it's a new setting, it won't stomp on the Pathfinder legal (no modern iconics, not in Golarion). The only thing would be to make sure that we don't copy anything WotC that's closed content.
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Allegiance, not Alignment, wasn't ever an extremely big part of Modern.
[...]
However that brings up a side issue of magic in the core Modern. I'd say leave it alone for the moment, but build with an eye toward how Modern can expand into different setting types.So speaking of hooks I say leave Allegiances as is. This allows GMs to slide them in and out as required, to the point of evening bring back in Good <--> Evil, Law <--> Chaos if desired on an individual game level.
*edit*
With magic we could just have Detect Allegiance, which reveals one or more Allegiances the target has.
Allegiance, I could go with that and that spell. Maybe it could be vague, like reading an aura. It shows the symbol best related to their allegiance "You see a red outline of a snake, neck flared." "They're... a member of Cobra?"
Right. I do want to keep the 5th level and under magics only, as wizards aren't the stars of this game. However, I do want to keep it open to the idea of past and future. I liked their tech ages and would hope we can stick to that sort of flexibility.
Easy enough to avoid. *points at original MSRD files*
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/msrd
It's why mention the reward system. Just like with Pathfinder we'll need to scrap what's in Modern and generate something new.
It means we loose a good chunk of flavor content of Arcana... somehow I think we'll be okay.
We can bring up the "setting" after the main rewrite is done I think.
.... I'm going to be hateful for a moment about Future, worst waste of money I've ever spent. Broken useless book that was only worth picking at with fine tweezers. It needed Future Tech and I would add the 3rd party Future Player's Companion to be useful. Badly edited to boot.
Out of the MSRD we can pick through Menaces, Arcana, and Future. Personally, Weapons Locker isn't a loss. Ultramodern Firearms did it more robustly... I need to check the OGL declarations on that one.
I'd almost like to stick closer to PF for menaces out of their bestiary and encourage/balance for such use. It was one of the things I did most often in sci-fi or horror/magic Modern games was lift 3.0 and 3.5 monsters right from the MMs.
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I liked Ultramodern Firearms better as well.
I agree on the menaces. It's easy enough to build up a non-extraordinary encounter. We should focus on making PFModern tight with the bestiary. I want a froghemoth in a sewer! Hahaha.
Update 3:
PF Community Project listing created (legal work on my end). Basic wiki setup finished.
Awesome! I'll have a proper look through tonight.
suggestions about skills:
merge Demolitions (Int) and Repair (Int) into Disable Device (Int)
merge Drive (Dex) and Pilot (Dex)
plus the other merges mentioned above
Is Disable Device really accurate to a skill that repairs?
Those really seem like they should be absorbed into the appropriate Knowledge skill. For example explosives as an item requires Demolitions to plant, Craft (Chemical), and possibly a knowledge skill.
Likewise Craft(mechanical) comes up in a number of situations. Repair could be folded into any craft skill associated with making items.
Unlike Pathfinder, Modern actually has many uses for Craft and Profession as skills.
This is one reason I rank Smart Heros in the upper levels of power. Like crafting Casters, the ability to custom create gear in Moderns often longer down time is sometimes crazy good.
1. Fast
2. Smart
3. Tough
4. Dedicated
5. Charismatic
6. Strong
5 and 6 are arguable but I stand by that for now.
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suggestions about skills:
merge Demolitions (Int) and Repair (Int) into Disable Device (Int)
merge Drive (Dex) and Pilot (Dex)
plus the other merges mentioned above
I could see merging the first set. One could say that putting things together, rigging them to explode, and taking them apart are all the same skill set. I would say though that Drive and Pilot should stay as separate as swim and climb.
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Those really seem like they should be absorbed into the appropriate Knowledge skill. For example explosives as an item requires Demolitions to plant, Craft (Chemical), and possibly a knowledge skill.
Likewise Craft(mechanical) comes up in a number of situations. Repair could be folded into any craft skill associated with making items.
Unlike Pathfinder, Modern actually has many uses for Craft and Profession as skills.
This, I agree even more with. It might take a bit of tinkering, but working to have craft skills absorb other skills seems fine. I'm thinking like what happened with Alchemy WAAAAY back.
Knowledge skills, I'd say to avoid them absorbing, as there isn't currently an appropriate one, and we really need less knowledge skills, not more.
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I'm about to do a type up of the skills as I've worked with them thus far.
However, before I do that, I wanted to know what you thought on this issue: Occupations.
My initial reaction is to convert them to traits. I don't know whether it would be better to retain the two traits core rule and say that you must pick one occupational trait and you are free to choose the other as desired, or slightly split it up and say that You take two traits as normal and then a third, occupational, trait.
Also, I saw on one of the previous (read: nearly archived) boards that wealth was made into a skill. Part of me thinks that such would be a balanced thing (and occ. traits could just add a misc. bonus), but I can't think of a single base class that should have it as a class skill and it'd be one of those skills that's just a rank funnel. You'd be a fool not to take ranks in it. Also, what ability would you use as the modifier? CHA like a Hollywood starlet or politician? INT like a corporate CEO? WIS like the prudent investor? It just seems too broad. I'm open to ideas, however.
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I know the d20 Modern classes were 10 level classes, and multiclassing was not only common, it was encouraged. do we want to try to keep the Pf feel of "You WANT to hit max level in your class"?
I think there needs to be some REALLY attractive abilities down the skill trees to discourage cherry-picking, at least to an extent.
For your consideration:
Reduce Fast Hero's skill ranks per level from 4+Int modifier to 2+Int modifier, equalizing him with the other two physical stats.
Dexterity does not outweigh strength for some reason? If we're keeping the trend (or at least some vague parallels), fine manipulation lends itself toward many more things than strength or resiliency can.
Occupations play an important roll in the system as most of the base classes provide so little in the way of both flavor and starting proficiencies. In a way they are kind of pre-archetypes, or super generic archetypes. That's not to say they couldn't stand a good look as some were more worthwhile then others. I really suggest "doing away with" as little as possible. The more we remove or seriously alter, the less it will feel like Modern. An important issue with (crud I almost wrote Kits instead of) Occupations is the extra skill bonus for having a skill as a class skill at the start of the game. This rarely made any sense to me why it was an only 1st level deal. Under PF alteration it makes even less with class skill bonuses being gained with multi-classing. This would make some of the skill based Occupations look as good as the bonus feat professions that give you firearms or body armor.
d20 Modern minus human skills:
Strong: 2 + Int
Fast: 4 + Int
Tough: 2 + Int
Smart: 8 + Int
Dedicated: 4 + Int
Charismatic: 6 + Int
The only reason to drop down skill totals is if we are going to include the 'favored class' as a universal bonus. As attractive that may be I feel it adds an extra layer of complication that isn't need. I'd personally almost want to bump Strong and Tough's skills up to 4 and bring Smart down to 6.
Even with skill consolidation a Fast Hero still has many skills to get to play in roll. Overall I sense that Modern characters will be more skilled overall then d20 Modern ones, given the way the skill rank system works.
Another thing to consider... the even values was an artifact of the 3e skill system with cross-class skills. Having odd number skill points meant that cross-class skill progressed oddly if they were take... not that half-ranks didn't progress oddly anyways. We could try...
Strong: 3 + Int
Fast: 3 + Int
Tough: 2 + Int (<-- seriously not a lot a of class skills to begin with)
Smart: 6 + Int
Dedicated: 4 + Int
Charismatic: 5 + Int
With humans this comes out to
Strong: 4 + Int
Fast: 4 + Int
Tough: 3 + Int
Smart: 7 + Int
Dedicated: 5 + Int
Charismatic: 6 + Int
@ VikingIrishman, I really think we should keep the base classes at 10. The flexible intent of the system is to help build a vast array of characters with a more generic undefined setup. By making capstones at 20 you create an artificial lock in. Lets to some examples of... carp what did the Modern Player's Companion call them... basically builds of combining different levels of the different base classes.
Advanced classes work differently then Prestige classes as most are rather tame in power bumps, just more focused.
As a last note for the moment, remember over the course of 20 levels PF style characters gain 3 extra feats over base 3e/d20-Modern characters.
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@ VikingIrishman, I really think we should keep the base classes at 10. The flexible intent of the system is to help build a vast array of characters with a more generic undefined setup. By making capstones at 20 you create an artificial lock in. Lets to some examples of... carp what did the Modern Player's Companion call them... basically builds of combining different levels of the different base classes.
Advanced classes work differently then Prestige classes as most are rather tame in power bumps, just more focused.
As a last note for the moment, remember over the course of 20 levels PF style characters gain 3 extra feats over base 3e/d20-Modern characters.
Forgive my unintentional vagueness. I hadn't meant to imply bumping the classes up to 20 level classes. I actually prefer (to a degree) the relative "soft focus" of the 10 level classes and the "hard focus" of the advanced classes. I think it works incredibly well together.
I was simply stating that if we wanted to capture the feel of PF class design, we should create some really nice abilities that you can only access by going all the way to 10 in your chosen class.
I think that speaks to the need to improve talents across the classes. Most, I really look at the strong hero, are already fairly bad.
However, do keep in mind, that the classes were intended to be generic classes that just emphasized the character's driving stat. There was a reason you were able to take prestige classes at Lv3 or 4.
To me, it was like you kept the "generic" class advancement if you were a guy that just got "caught up" in whatever madness that was going on at the time that things(the game) started. Otherwise, that new army recruit (fresh out of Basic) would eventually class into soldier, that med-school grad (smart or dedicated), would eventually go into medic or field tech, etc, etc.
As was said before, those classes are laying the underpinnings for the character idea, though I do agree, the Strong Hero was kinda.. "eh"
Dorje Sylas, I believe the word you're looking for is "Ordinaries", for the NPCs.
Not Ordinaries. Did you ever pick up anything by The GameMechanics through Green Ronin? Modern Player's Companion, Future Player's Companion, Modern Magic. In both of the companions they gave example multiclassed builds that would work for various types of characters that didn't involve Advanced classes. They also added something like 10 new talents per class over the two books. Some were busts, some were good.
The funny thing is in all the various Modern/Future games I ran I didn't see to many advanced class takers, save a few of the splat book tech genius style ones. Most of players tended to multiclass around Fast Hero and dip other base classes, or maybe the odd few levels of an advanced class.
Some of the talent tress are rather alluring to follow before taking up an advanced class.
I once did a Smart/Dedicated Sniper/Skill-Monkey.
No, I didn't.. I only had the Modern Manual, Urban Arcana, and D20 Future. got to run all of 2 games, and my players were angling for Prestige Classes.
Urban Arcana is perhaps hands down WotC Modern team's best work... I have heard Past was okay, as well as Apocalypse for folks who liked that kind of setting.
The GameMechanics work were great 3rd party additions and basically tool kits for customizing and adding more options, and mostly balanced.
Okay... here it is... ah just Class Combinations. One example of the Pro Athlete:
1___ Strong
2___ Fast
3___ Strong
4___ Fast
5___ Strong
6___ Fast
7___ Tough
8___ Fast
9___ Tough
10__ Fast
As for Talents take this one for the Smart Hero, Adapt. Basically if he gets hit 3 times by the same foe he makes an Int check (DC can get fairly high). If it succeeds he gets a dodge bonus to AC equal to his Smart Hero level for the rest of the fight.
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Now Extreme Effort, what a waste of a talent, Ignore Hardness too has very little utility. What's 2 points off on hardness when most modern or even future objects have such high values, and only in melee no less.
The problem with the Strong Hero is his focus on Melee in a game that is so heavily ranged. The only way I've ever had strong heros work out were in encounters that limited ranges and offered options of cover to advance on shooters. Real high awareness of environment design.
Like the Fighter, the Strong Hero needs some serious attention and love.
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Like the Fighter, the Strong Hero needs some serious attention and love.
I agree. I think that the hardness thing was cool, but too weak. If we keep that, it should be (a ALWAYS usable and b) significantly higher. I personally would like to see it start at ignore 5 and go up from there, perhaps by 5 at a time.
Personally if you lumped Extreme Effort and Ignore Hardness into the same boat you'd get something that actually looks good. +2 Strength check (including flat out break DCs), 2 or 3 points off hardness, and bonus to Str based skills just to give it a bump.
My problem with Ignore Hardness was how often does one see a Modern character actually go about breaking stuff on their own without explosive aid.
What would be nice to see on the strong Hero is a replacement tree that focuses on achieving Combat Maneuvers. If the Strong hero is going to dominate in close quarters, where Fast dominates at ranged, then you want the base character to have an option to really put the hurt on once he gets there.
Step Up will a feat of many strong heros I suspect.
This is a great idea! Might I suggest pulling some ideas from the old James Bond RPG from Victory Games? Did anyone else play it? It was truly well-designed -- elegant and fun, though without sacrificing all complexity.
I'll chime in with another thumbs up.
Just a few thoughts on what's been mentioned so far.
I'm pretty sure that Weapons Locker is OGL as it was based on Ultramodern Firearms. Like Unearthed Arcana it was never compiled into the SRD because the book already contains open content.
As for 3rd party stuff I also recommend the Game Mechanics books to pilfer the open content. Modern Players Companion, Modern Magic, Martial Arts Mayhem and Future Players Companion were almost official having some of the same authors as the WotC books.
The merges of skills seem like good ideas.
As for classes keep the 10 level basic and 10 level advanced classes. I think, unlike fantasy, multiclassing was wholeheartedly encouraged in Modern.
Other sources such as the Modern Players Companion and Urban Arcana also added 5 level prestige classes some of which are OGL (see the Arcana Advanced Classes section of the SRD).
I also agree with separating out the human racial abilities from the class descriptions so that it's easier to add in nonhuman PCs/NPCs.
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Regarding basic class ranks per level; I think it would make perfect sense to either lower Fast Hero to 2+Int or raise Strong and Tough to 4+Int. However, I also think that Smart should stick with the 8+Int, as it kind of relates to the fact that indeed, they are smart. That's my take, anyways.
Regarding Basic Class HP:
Current:
Strong: d8
Fast: d8
Tough: d10
Smart: d6
Dedicated: d6
Charismatic: d6
Proposal:
Strong: d10 (To mimic fighter or ranger)
Fast: d8 (To mimic monk or rogue)
Tough: d12 (To mimic Barbarian)
Smart: d6 (To mimic Wizard)
Dedicated: d8 (To mimic Cleric or Druid)
Charismatic: d6 or d8
I'm not against the Charasmatic staying at d6 and low BAB. Perhaps increase the Strong Hero's skill points. The Tough doesn't have many skills anyways. Also jumping it's BAB up to full makes it a good class to pair with Strong, so cutting back on the total ranks available for either a combined Strong/Tough or Fast/Tough would make some clear distinctions between classes. It also would distinguish between Strong/Fast and Strong/Tough.
KEEP Vitality/Wound System
Vitality & Wounds were only in Star Wars and Unearthed Arcana. However, they could be added. I suggest that threats become crits by expending an action point (similar to Spycraft's mechanic) to avoid the situation of an ordinary taking out a PC with a lucky shot.
Jim.
I'm not against the Charismatic staying at d6 and low BAB. Perhaps increase the Strong Hero's skill points. The Tough doesn't have many skills anyways. Also jumping it's BAB up to full makes it a good class to pair with Strong, so cutting back on the total ranks available for either a combined Strong/Tough or Fast/Tough would make some clear distinctions between classes. It also would distinguish between Strong/Fast and Strong/Tough.
With a full BAB and d12 HD why would anyone choose Strong over Tough? Considering we've pegged Strong as a weak class we need to give it some edge over Tough other than getting 4+Int skill points rather than 2+Int.
I guess the Tough hero is meant to be a damage soak so he doesn't necessarily need full BAB.
I hope I'm not too late.
Unless you dump the ability classes and replace them with better classes, I'm not interested.
For example, Scientist(choose a science, such as archioligy), Detectives, Street fighters, Rangers(With equiptment rather than spells), ect.
Sorry Goth Guru, not going to happen. One of the main parts of Modern is the more generic base classes which can be used to create detectives, street fighters, scientists, and rangers (from park to army). Also the Advanced specialized class kick in at 4th level, so you only ever take 3 levels of a Base class if that's where you want to go with the character.
I do agree however, that the existing Base class are not super attractive. Remember they were 3.25 and have languished for 8 years as D&D didn't so much as power crept as power exploded.
@yojimbouk, I think Strong hero is on the block for some serious help to actually make it palatable. Giving just the Strong hero 4+Int skills and leaving the Tough hero at 2+Int is one thought of mine to help that.
For example, why is Melee Smash limited to only to melee weapons. Why not throwing weapons, or any weapon that you add your strength bonus to. Also why not take Ignore Hardness and stuff it in there as well. +1 damage to weapons that use strength bonus for damage, and ignore 2 hardness/damage-reduction per "Smash" talent. I know that basically ends up being ignore 3 hardness but looks a lot better as a single talent, and decent if all 3 are taken. By 5th level I think it is very appropriate for a Strong hero to be able to throw a knife into an enemy's gun and break it, classic down the barrel style sunder. Or at the very least be able to slice it in half with sword, again drawing from action movie inspiration.
Add a +2 CMB to Extreme Effort's base +2 to Str Checks and skills. Because nothing says strong like the guy grinding someones face into the ground, or sending the mooks flying over railings (bull rush).
This leaves a new Talent tree open and makes both of the existing trees actually worth taking. Possibly something to help get the Strong hero into melee/throwing range.
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Bumping the Tough Hero up to Full BAB goes along with the HD. Personally if the Strong Hero is revised/improved, the Tough Hero many need that to not be overshadowed by the Strong Hero.
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also i think fast hero's class ac bonus needs to come down by 1 point, to make it not so overpowering.
Agreed. Regarding BAB/HP, is this the right sense then?
STR: Full, d10
DEX: 3/4, d8
CON: Full, d12
INT: 1/2, d6
WIS: 3/4, d8
CHA: 1/2, d6
That gives us two of each type of BAB, as well as the full gamut of HD. It would also tie to the Paizo notion of HP/BAB balance
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also i think fast hero's class ac bonus needs to come down by 1 point, to make it not so overpowering.
Agreed. Regarding BAB/HP, is this the right sense then?
STR: Full, d10
DEX: 3/4, d8
CON: Full, d12
INT: 1/2, d6
WIS: 3/4, d8
CHA: 1/2, d6That gives us two of each type of BAB, as well as the full gamut of HD. It would also tie to the Paizo notion of HP/BAB balance
i think that makes con too strong. 4+int skill, full bab, d12 hd.... that shines more than str. i think 3/4 bab and 4+int skills are good for tough hero's
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i think that makes con too strong. 4+int skill, full bab, d12 hd.... that shines more than str. i think 3/4 bab and 4+int skills are good for tough hero'salso i think fast hero's class ac bonus needs to come down by 1 point, to make it not so overpowering.
Agreed. Regarding BAB/HP, is this the right sense then?
STR: Full, d10
DEX: 3/4, d8
CON: Full, d12
INT: 1/2, d6
WIS: 3/4, d8
CHA: 1/2, d6That gives us two of each type of BAB, as well as the full gamut of HD. It would also tie to the Paizo notion of HP/BAB balance
Well, since in keeping in tradition with Pathfinder's tie in to BAB/HP, what if it's full BAB/D12, 2+Int mod skill ranks?
I'm curious as to what gets too easy by making two full BAB classes. I would not consider Strong's full BAB an advantage, more like a trap.
I'm trying to think about what would break because of Tough having a higher BAB.
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There really are two ways to build a character, multiclass 2 base classes, or take an advanced class.
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n specifically made only "melee focused" classes get full bab. otherwise you have toughs better at bein firearms users than fast characters, which is weird.
also its really just how the game is balanced
I think what we're going to have to decide on issues like these is whether to go with Paizo or the old source. Paizo(Pathfinder) has a strict BAB/HP/Casting MAX tie together. 3.0, 3.25 (Modern), and 3.5 do not. We can go either way, but conflicting rules/ideas are going to happen. It's up to the group as a whole.
Personally, I say, go with Paizo, and just find some cool stuff to give to the Strong Hero (e.g., more skill points, beefed talent tree, etc.) to keep the balance. However, while that's my personal take, I can see why only strong would get the full BAB. It's just a matter of asking how far are we converting?
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Two things:
First, what should we do about Occupation Traits? I think we ought to stick to PF Core in that each hero should only get two traits, but do we require one of those to be Occupational or do we just say that Occupations traits are a category just the same as Combat, Faith, Magic, Race, and Social and that you don't have to pick one?
Two, for your critiquing and editing:
The Strong Hero
Vitality: d10
Class Skills: Acrobatics, Climb, Craft, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Knowledge (Pop Culture), Linguistics, Profession, Repair, Survival, Swim.
Skill Ranks Per Level: 4+Int
Full BAB, High Fort, Defense and Reputation unchanged.
Extreme Effort Talent Tree
Tier 1: +2 to STR checks as a full-round action (+2)
Tier 2: +2 to CMB and CMD when maintaining or resisting a grapple (+4)
Tier 3: +2 to CMD and CMD and Intimidate checks (+6)
-All stack
Ignore Hardness Talent Tree
Tier 1: +2 to ignore hardness (+2)
Tier 2: +3 to ignore hardness (+5)
Tier 3: +5 to ignore hardness (+10)
-All stack
Melee Smash Talent Tree
Tier 1: +1 melee damage (+1)
Tier 2: +2 melee damage (+3)
Tier 3: +2 melee damage (+5)
-All stack
I have no idea why Handle Animal is on the list. I also have no idea why Intimidate is NOT on that list(so I added it). Languages was originally on the list, and so I brought those over as the linguistics, but am still undecided as to whether it should be a class skill.