In my campaign we do random loot rolls and one of my PCs got dragonhide armor, I get that the armor itself is a little harder to destroy, and the armor get energy resitance but it doesn't confer it to the player... am I missing something, I'm by no means a veteran player or GM but this just doesn't seem useful.
It also exists because of legacy, in addition to the druid thing.
Additionally, it's cheaper to add energy resistance to the armor.
" If the armor or shield is later given the ability to protect the wearer against that energy type, the cost to add such protection is reduced by 25%."
Finally, what player, who has just killed a dragon, doesn't want to do something cool with the beast? This gives an avenue for that.
Annoying how? if the resitance doesn't apply to the player wouldn't it only resist atempts to actually destroy the armor?
Annoying how? if the resitance doesn't apply to the player wouldn't it only resist atempts to actually destroy the armor?
How much do you think an intelligent cow would like to see you wearing a coat made of the leather from his kin when you went for a stroll down 5th ave.??? lol
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Druids are the big easy to spot one. Unable to wear metal armour they can certainly wear dragonhide variants. Also they are more cheaply enchanted to have the matching energy resistance.
Armour made from the hides of dragons is a reasonably familiar fantasy tropes and role-playing games in general so there is that to consider. Someone somewhere is going to want to make armour from a dragon they've slain as people have been want to do in these games for over 30 years.
Plus it has the advantage of being relatively inexpensive compared to say Adamantine or Mithral armours.
Alright sweet thanks for the answers everone!
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From Special materials in equipment in CRB PRD:
Dragonhide: Armorsmiths can work with the hides of dragons to produce armor or shields of masterwork quality. One dragon produces enough hide for a single suit of masterwork hide armor for a creature one size category smaller than the dragon. By selecting only choice scales and bits of hide, an armorsmith can produce one suit of masterwork banded mail for a creature two sizes smaller, one suit of masterwork half-plate for a creature three sizes smaller, or one masterwork breastplate or suit of full plate for a creature four sizes smaller. In each case, enough hide is available to produce a light or heavy masterwork shield in addition to the armor, provided that the dragon is Large or larger. If the dragonhide comes from a dragon that had immunity to an energy type, the armor is also immune to that energy type, although this does not confer any protection to the wearer. If the armor or shield is later given the ability to protect the wearer against that energy type, the cost to add such protection is reduced by 25%.
It looks like you should always buy your dragonhide piecemeal.
I started a FAQ thread on that subject:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q7rv?Ult-CombatCore-Rules-conflict-on-Dragonhi de#1
Woah what?
From that Page:
If the dragonhide used to construct this armor comes from a dragon that had immunity to an energy type, the armor pieces also have immunity to that energy type, but only confer the immunity on the wearer if he is wearing a suit of armor made entirely of dragonhide from the same type of dragon. A piece of dragonhide armor costs double the armor piece cost + 100 gp. Alternatively, a plate torso armor piece can be constructed from dragonhide for 700 gp, and an agile plate torso armor piece can be constructed from dragonhide for 1,100 gp; if either is worn alone, it bestows any energy damage immunity possessed by the dragon to the wearer.
So it gives immunity to that energy type for free to the wearer?
The real reason for Dragonhide to exist is so your friendly neighborhood Druid can get a suit of Dragonhide Plate for 3,300 gp. Then the Druid can get it enchanted with +1 and the Wild armor property for 16,000. So that for 19,300 a Druid in wildshape can get a very nice +10 to their Armor class in Wildshape with no penalty!
Reasons Dragonhide is awesome:
1) If you play a character with an investment in Craft (armor), it is basically a carte blank for whatever type of armor you want to take the time to craft. A dragon corpse will typically give you enough to make a base set of armor for one or two party members.
2) Druids can wear it.
3) It is amazingly badass to wear the skin of a dragon you have slain.
3) It is amazingly badass to wear the skin of a dragon you have slain.
Beyond the druid thing, I always thought this was the big reason to wear dragonhide. Put some armor spikes on it for bonus points. If you really crazy, then catch it on fire.
If the druid is wildshaped (as they should be) the dragonhide armor will not be visible. And besides... no creature with an INT score of 16+ is going to attack a paladin before a full caster anyway.
The thing i wonder, would a red dragon care if the druid were to wear white dragon hide armor? Or primal dragon? Or sovereign dragon? Or gold dragon?
Probably somewhat depends on the dragon in the position to care...
But it's not much different to if you are wearing Hide Armor made from a Human or other Humanoid, from a Human/Humanoid's eyes.
I would say that NE/CE dragons who happen to hate the type of dragon whose hide you're wearing would be the most approving.
But even there plenty of them could see it as beyond the pale.
Even evil dragons may see it as offensive- That arrogant, upstart mortal dared to kill one of our kind and is now parading around his achievement!
Just bring with you a book bound in human skin. So if a dragon gets upset about your armor you can tell them that you always carry the hides of worthy enemies with you.
But make sure with your gm that he doesn't mind your paladin doing so.
*should there be any difference in the moral implications of using dragon leather over human leather?
You guys remember that not all dragon hide armor is from dragons killed, right? :)
But, yeah, it does annoy dragons (and Dragon Disciples, I should think). So, there's another advantage. The red dragon attacks the druid with dragonhide armor first, ignoring the paladin.
I think it would annoy Good dragons if you were blanket-wearing the skin of a Good dragon rather than vice versa. For example, I don't think a White Dragon would care if you wore the skin of a Red Dragon; the White Dragon might even find it funny, actually.
"Look at that chump! Killed by a bunch of worthless mortals. HA!"
You guys remember that not all dragon hide armor is from dragons killed, right? :)
No, didn't know that. Is it from them shedding their old skin?
The moral implications would vary depending on how a culture perceives dragons. On a base level killing an intelligent creature for its hide is abhorrent- but then look at mythology. Don't think anyone would have batted an eyelash is Saint George took to wearing the dragons skin as armour, except for various religious reasons unrelated to the morality of the act of wearing an intelligent creatures skin.
In some mythologies, great heroes even took parts of the evil dragon/monster and hung said parts around their drinking halls.
It comes down to whether your particular character/culture/deity sees wearing the dragons skin as evil separate to the act of actually killing it. Of course wearing the skin of a metallic dragon is always going to get you in trouble with societies that understand the nature of metallic dragons. (Though some cultures may not see the difference between a metallic and a chromatic dragon)
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I always thought the point of dragon armor was so that you could cast Resurrection on it when things got hairy and you needed a distraction.
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The reason for the absurd cheap price on the hide of a colossal dragons, is caused by the brothers Gribblehoot, the enterprising halfling twins, who made a fortune on a simple business idea.
The story of the adventure that set them on their destined path as unparalleled leather merchant is too long to recant here, but the important bit is when they got hold of an unlucky colossal dragon through Magic Jar.
Keeping the beast enslaved indefinately, they produces huge amounts of scales each day, as the possessor shed them using Skinsend. Through regenerative magic - a ring as far as I know - they got to repeat the process over and over again.
Though they made a lot of gold at first, the market eventually got flooded. Thus today, the scales of a colossal dragon cost only slightly more than price it takes to transport it between cities.
The reason for the absurd cheap price on the hide of a colossal dragons, is caused by the brothers Gribblehoot, the enterprising halfling twins, who made a fortune on a simple business idea.
The story of the adventure that set them on their destined path as unparalleled leather merchant is too long to recant here, but the important bit is when they got hold of an unlucky colossal dragon through Magic Jar.
Keeping the beast enslaved indefinately, they produces huge amounts of scales each day, as the possessor shed them using Skinsend. Through regenerative magic - a ring as far as I know - they got to repeat the process over and over again.
Though they made a lot of gold at first, the market eventually got flooded. Thus today, the scales of a colossal dragon cost only slightly more than price it takes to transport it between cities.
Skinsend is by far my favourite spell. Has alot of utility.
Worried about how ugly you will be when you become a lich? Just skinsend/regen + gentle repose a few times and you have a bunch of skinsuits you can wear... well like a second skin. The spares are so you can dress up your undead minions as decoys.
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You guys remember that not all dragon hide armor is from dragons killed, right? :)I give full props to the warrior so mighty that he is capable of skinning a dragon alive. I mean... wow.
...damnit, now I have an idea for a magic item...
The Rainbow Armor of Daring: Created by a brilliant thief, who succeeded in producing this suit of dragonhide armor (functions as studded leather armor +3) which is formed from individually stolen scales of thousands of dragons. For up to 20 rounds a day, the user can operate as if he were invisible against a dragon's see invisbility, blindsight and other detection methods.
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I think its creepier then that Emmitt.
"I collected her shed skin cells from her shower and made this lovely hat."
Scales do fall off, but generally if its enough to make the armor, its going to be a pretty damn big portion of that dragon's skin.
I can see a silver dragon giving a scale as a keep sake, or maybe somebody's got some dragonhorn they lopped off a living one (who probably is peeved), but full suits of armor from living dragons is...kinda out there.
If you really crazy, then catch it on fire.
Oh, man. I would be constantly poking at the continual flame with marshmallows, just to annoy the wearer. :D
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If you really crazy, then catch it on fire.Oh, man. I would be constantly poking at the continual flame with marshmallows, just to annoy the wearer. :D
I'd stick a marshmallow on his armor spike and see if he noticed. Totally worth it!
Actually you'd be putting that on me maybe, I've got 2 guys with armor that's on fire...
In my own campaign, the Paladin's (and Anti-paladins) of the dragon gods wear dragonhide armor made of the opposing sides dragons.
Alternately, certain Paladins and Clerics of each god would receive special dragonhide armor prepared by a avatars of the Dragon Gods. This armor would be fully identifiable on sight as having been made specifically for them. The suit looked like it had been grown for them, rather than made out of parts. So, the scales looked more like a second skin of armor, rather than armor made out of bits. Moreover, there would be suits of armor that couldn't exist (fairy dragon armor, pseudo dragon armor, etc). Anyone wearing this type of armor got the respect of dragons on sight (even the enemy dragons, no like, but respect).
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My players number one thing to do with dead dragons....
DRAGON JERKY!!!!
Now available in honey barbeque, hickory smoked, and new for this year...Solar Glory! So hot it make the ghost pepper look like a bell pepper!
what I've been thinking, is that evil people run around wearing good and silver, while good peoe run around wearing red,
Blue, black.
I mean think of how cool those would look
The purpose of Dragon Hide Armor is to counteract the typical size penalties to Stealth checks for the larger sized Dragons.
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I have never viewed dragonscale armor of any type as a hide type armor. You are not skinning and using that as the armor it is the scales. The movie Dragonslayer would be my reference for this. If you recall the chick in there collects scales to fashion a shield for the slayer.
As to how other dragons would view the use of their scales in armor would likely be varied. Dragonlance is a good example of this as each highlord wore armor of the same dragon type that they rode. Perhaps if you are allied to a dragon this would be a consideration here. Being intelligent beings it would be useful for the dragon to have an ally that was (after enchantments) partially protected from their breath weapon.
Also consider evil dragons often stomp out other dragons in their region, even of the same family. Armor might have been fashioned from one of these dragons and the victor might careless about it. Remember many evil dragons are self serving and not about racial pride and good dragons would be more likely to ask how the individual acquired the armor if they were concerned.
What I am getting at is there is not realistic one answer to how a dragon would react to someone in this armor.
Your right about the whole hide vs scale thing.
There's also a rather wide variety of dragons in a D&D world, and with the inclusion of half-dragons you can farm dragonhide from the darnedest of things. For example, wyverns are dragons and you can make dragonhide armor from them, though it lacks the energy resistance properties (notice that the dragonhide secttion says IF the dragon possesses immunities).
Meanwhile, the Pathfinder bestiary suggests that most half-dragons are the result of magical experiments and breed true with their own kind. At this point, farming fairly mundane creatures for their hides is pretty easy. My creating half-dragon animals or vermin (both of which can range to colossal size depending on the breed) you could collect as much dragonhide as you need (alternatively you could probably collect enough hide from enough large-sized dragons to make plate armor as well, subject to GM discretion).
Half dragon vermin would probably be the most humane or morally upright method of breeding dragonkin for hides. They have no Intelligence score so there's nothing to apply the +2 Int to, so they will never be sentient, unlike animals who will have a 3-4 Intelligence after becoming half-dragons (meaning they can have alignments, learn languages, and are now people).
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Or, you know, lots and lots of Clone spells. Seems legit to me!
This generates:
1) crafting materials! (valuable onestoo!)
One dragon produces enough hide for a single suit of masterwork hide armor for a creature one size category smaller than the dragon. By selecting only choice scales and bits of hide, an armorsmith can produce one suit of masterwork banded mail for a creature two sizes smaller, one suit of masterwork half-plate for a creature three sizes smaller, or one masterwork breastplate or suit of full plate for a creature four sizes smaller. In each case, enough hide is available to produce a light or heavy masterwork shield in addition to the armor, provided that the dragon is Large or larger. If the dragonhide comes from a dragon that had immunity to an energy type, the armor is also immune to that energy type, although this does not confer any protection to the wearer.
Given a single piece of Dragonhide Plate sells for 3,300, that's more than a 200% profit!
2) meat!
The poor never need fear starvation again! (~ kindly dragons)
Get the limitless thrill of destroying a helpless target! (~ cruel dragons)
3) free bones for undead or golem or permanent-animated object making! Or ancient Tian medicines!
One of these isn't evil! You decide which!
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Or, you know, lots and lots of Clone spells. Seems legit to me!
This generates:
1) crafting materials! (valuable onestoo!)
One dragon produces enough hide for a single suit of masterwork hide armor for a creature one size category smaller than the dragon. By selecting only choice scales and bits of hide, an armorsmith can produce one suit of masterwork banded mail for a creature two sizes smaller, one suit of masterwork half-plate for a creature three sizes smaller, or one masterwork breastplate or suit of full plate for a creature four sizes smaller. In each case, enough hide is available to produce a light or heavy masterwork shield in addition to the armor, provided that the dragon is Large or larger. If the dragonhide comes from a dragon that had immunity to an energy type, the armor is also immune to that energy type, although this does not confer any protection to the wearer.Given a single piece of Dragonhide Plate sells for 3,300, that's more than a 200% profit!
2) meat!
The poor never need fear starvation again! (~ kindly dragons)
Get the limitless thrill of destroying a helpless target! (~ cruel dragons)3) free bones for undead or golem or permanent-animated object making! Or ancient Tian medicines!
One of these isn't evil! You decide which!
Trick question. The answer is neither! :P
Trick question. The answer is neither! :P
But! But! But!
... but there were four options...
:(
(edited once)
Here was me thinking the point of Dragonhide armor was to give stats for armor made of dragonhide.