Agents of Shield


Television

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Sovereign Court

"Hulk, meet Purple Man."


Chris Mortika wrote:

Several years ago, Peter Parker had a conversation with Mary Jane about fighting the Hulk. "It's not something we talk about to one another, but yeah, we think about how to fight each other if it came down to that.

"I'm pretty sure I could take the Hulk, but I think I'd have to kill him."

My guess: a couple web-shooters on full-auto, right up the Hulk's nose and down his throat.

I'm gonna write Spidey saying he could take out the Hulk off as either being:

1) just plain bad writing, or
2) killing Banner before he could turn into the Hulk.


Chris Mortika wrote:
"I'm pretty sure I could take the Hulk, but I think I'd have to kill him."

I would love to hear how he thinks he might do that. Sounds like Peter may have been a bit drunk/high and bragging. All Spiderman could do to the Hulk is try to avoid being hit -- not only by direct blows, but by thrown objects, thunderclap hands, etc. -- while making indirect/ranged attacks with...what? Dropping buildings on the Hulk isn't going to do it.

Spiderman would have to be prepared to knock the Hulk out via chemical means (assuming this is a version of the Hulk that changes back to Banner once the rage is gone), or drain the gamma energy away to force a reversion to Banner, or something along those lines. Since Spiderman isn't ordinarily equipped to do any of that, I'd call that less "take the Hulk in a fight" and more "premeditated assassination of Banner once he's no longer the Hulk."

Sovereign Court

Norman Osborne wrote:
2) killing Banner before he could turn into the Hulk.

That has been shown, time and again, not to work.


Hama wrote:
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Hulk can't crack a planet. That's ridiculous. That's 'all star superman' level of ridicule, actually.
And yet he did.

Yep.

Anyways back to MCU, I still think Lorelai is in the dungeons so her powers probably wouldn't be a factor in this instance.

Now if we got the Enchantress, Amora! Different story.

Sovereign Court

is this what you guys are referring to?

"Actually... No... You see, Hulk and Red She-Hulk indirectly blew up a planet, they didn't strike the planet or send their gamma charged punch into it [...]. They hit each other and the energy released was so great it caused the planet to become unstable and explode."


...Which means they have far, far MORE than enough energy to crack the planet in half with a punch.

Sovereign Court

Dunno... planets have internal pressure and stuff working against the crust. Define 'cracking a planet', 'cause the only one who did it without a weapon that I know of is Galactus when he punched old future Thor through the Earth then broke the moon.

If you say Hulk is even close to the STR level of Galactus I will just agree to disagree with you there... :)

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Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

is this what you guys are referring to?

"Actually... No... You see, Hulk and Red She-Hulk indirectly blew up a planet, they didn't strike the planet or send their gamma charged punch into it [...]. They hit each other and the energy released was so great it caused the planet to become unstable and explode."

Thing is, are we talking about the MCU Hulk? He doesn't seem nearly that powerful.

Sovereign Court

Lord Fyre wrote:
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

is this what you guys are referring to?

"Actually... No... You see, Hulk and Red She-Hulk indirectly blew up a planet, they didn't strike the planet or send their gamma charged punch into it [...]. They hit each other and the energy released was so great it caused the planet to become unstable and explode."

Thing is, are we talking about the MCU Hulk? He doesn't seem nearly that powerful.

Definitely not. When Norton was at the helm, I think he jumped far away with Betty Ross Liv Tyler, but I'm not sure anymore. When Ruffalo was driving, I *think* I only saw him jump halfway up a building to grab Iron Man falling.

I don't think MCU Hulk is anything that can't be handled with the Hulkbuster suit... (I seriously think Blonsky almost killed the Hulk btw - not sure exactly how that battle went Hulk's way, but Blonsky appeared much more dangerous)


Thomas Seitz wrote:
Anyways back to MCU, I still think Lorelai is in the dungeons so her powers probably wouldn't be a factor in this instance.

I'm not so sure Lorelai would necessarily be in the dungeons. "Odin" sent Sif to capture her. And "Odin" was Loki.


Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
If you say Hulk is even close to the STR level of Galactus I will just agree to disagree with you there... :)

Pure strength levels? Yeah, if you get him angry enough, he would be.

He's still gonna be so much smaller than Galactus that leverage would play a MASSIVE part in making Galactus still appear to be stronger, though.

Sovereign Court

Wow. The fanboyism for Hulk is strong here. Galactus man... GALACTUS!


Galactus probably COULD fight the Hulk. Would Galactus win? Maybe. I still think it's theoretically possible for COMIC book Hulk to crack a planet. He just doesn't...much. Now MCU Hulk...probably not since he's yet to showcase any kind of power on that scale.


Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Wow. The fanboyism for Hulk is strong here. Galactus man... GALACTUS!

Is Galactus more powerful? Yes. That's not really a debate.

Is Galactus physically stronger? Depends how angry the Hulk is. If Galactus shrunk down and arm-wrestled a sufficiently angry Hulk, not only would the Hulk win, he would tear Galan's arm off.

Sovereign Court

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LOL... so:

--> Galactus survived the Big Crunch, then the Big Bang, and he's listed as having a solar-scaled super strength, but Hulk is stronger than him, on account of just angry he can get.

--> Therefore, Hulk is the Marvel equivalent of Chuck Norris.


Well remember Thor can escape a damn black hole by flexing hard enough and can hold solar systems, and even HE is usually evenly matched at best with Hulk once he gets pissed enough.

Don't blame me, blame the writers.


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Norman Osborne wrote:
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Wow. The fanboyism for Hulk is strong here. Galactus man... GALACTUS!

Is Galactus more powerful? Yes. That's not really a debate.

Is Galactus physically stronger? Depends how angry the Hulk is. If Galactus shrunk down and arm-wrestled a sufficiently angry Hulk, not only would the Hulk win, he would tear Galan's arm off.

So the HUlk is ALIVE and full of energy, clearly the solution to the rampages of both is to turn Banner into a popsicle and let Galactus chow down.


In any case,

Tonight's episode was sadface and also scary face as Daisy and Hive shipped each other. SHIELD and the Kree got their butts kicked. And nothing short of Galactus can stop him apparently.


The kree were disappointing in the extreme. Slow, weak, stupid and entirely uninteresting. How were these supposed to be impressive?
Lincoln is an ass and should be tossed on the garbage dump where he belongs.
Fitz, who used to be my favorite, hasn't been fun since he got better from his brain damage and got back from the dead planet.


I enjoyed the episode but I agree the Kree were disappointing though I wish they didn't kill the redheaded Inhuman.

Liberty's Edge

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What kind of super-advanced alien species comes down to a planet and

Spoiler:
whip out medieval weapons to engage in melee with a super-powered opponent?

These were the ones who created HIVE, the ones who banished him, and the best they could do is swing a morning star/axe? What are they, Asgardians?


Terrax has his axe, Firelord carries a quarterstaff, Ronan a hammer...apparently many super-advanced alien species in the Marvel Universe are comfortable with Medieval style weapons.

Sovereign Court

Kree were super dissapointing. Seriously, These are the dudes that took like several avengers to take down.

Scarab Sages

Oooohhh.......

Spoiler:
Kree Warriors!!! I heard these guys are badas….wait… Nevermind. Although I am kind of glad at how they did that. Turns out, the mysterious Kree artifact wasn’t the MacGuffin after all. Nice.

And I like Hive’s plan. There seems to be no way he can accomplish it on a mass scale, since he doesn’t have nearly enough Kree blood (even with what he got from the Kree warrior and what he can potentially get from Daisy). Still, he can probably create a good number of new Inhumans. With that, plus the existing Inhumans, he’d have enough to do some damage.

I’m glad they’re making the Fitz and Simmons relationship work (so far). Both of them are among my favorite characters.

I applaud Lincoln wanting to save Daisy, but he’s kind of an a$#~$#! about it.

I wasn’t happy about the reason the town was abandoned, but I wasn’t surprised. At least they kind of glossed over it, instead of shoving that crap in your face.

Poor Mack. It was sad to see him get that dose of reality to the heart from Daisy.

I’m excited to see how they’re going to resolve this season.

Sovereign Court

Grey Lensman wrote:
Norman Osborne wrote:
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Wow. The fanboyism for Hulk is strong here. Galactus man... GALACTUS!

Is Galactus more powerful? Yes. That's not really a debate.

Is Galactus physically stronger? Depends how angry the Hulk is. If Galactus shrunk down and arm-wrestled a sufficiently angry Hulk, not only would the Hulk win, he would tear Galan's arm off.

So the HUlk is ALIVE and full of energy, clearly the solution to the rampages of both is to turn Banner into a popsicle and let Galactus chow down.

Make sure you use an adamantium stick as his butt_muscles can crack a planet.


Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Grey Lensman wrote:
Norman Osborne wrote:
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Wow. The fanboyism for Hulk is strong here. Galactus man... GALACTUS!

Is Galactus more powerful? Yes. That's not really a debate.

Is Galactus physically stronger? Depends how angry the Hulk is. If Galactus shrunk down and arm-wrestled a sufficiently angry Hulk, not only would the Hulk win, he would tear Galan's arm off.

So the HUlk is ALIVE and full of energy, clearly the solution to the rampages of both is to turn Banner into a popsicle and let Galactus chow down.
Make sure you use an adamantium stick as his butt_muscles can crack a planet.

Of course, you also have to keep making him angrier so as to build up more energy. An adamantium enema should do the trick there...


I liked the episode, except for the attempted shield assassination of Hive. I was expecting something a bit more sophisticated than "shoot him with bullets and a rocket" Seriously, Shield has got to have some more impressive weapons than that? Could have at least pulled out the Coulson's Revenge.


Hama wrote:
Kree were super dissapointing. Seriously, These are the dudes that took like several avengers to take down.

I don't recall them doing that either in the MCU or the comics. But I will agree they could have been more technologically advanced weaponry systems to fight Hive, along with kill Inhumans.

MMCJawa,

I don't think they have access to Stark's weapon pile. Plus the fact the MCU doesn't have things like Quantum Bands and/or Cosmic Cubes on demand.

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Thomas Seitz wrote:
Hama wrote:
Kree were super dissapointing. Seriously, These are the dudes that took like several avengers to take down.

I don't recall them doing that either in the MCU or the comics. But I will agree they could have been more technologically advanced weaponry systems to fight Hive, along with kill Inhumans.

MMCJawa,

I don't think they have access to Stark's weapon pile. Plus the fact the MCU doesn't have things like Quantum Bands and/or Cosmic Cubes on demand.

Yes, but how about the weapons that they have shown: Colson's Revenge for instance (as MMCJawa pointed out).


I don't recall that weapon, Lord Frye.

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Coulson's Revenge

Liberty's Edge

Meh. I tend to think bullets and explosives are more dangerous than energy weapons. Lasers never seem to do much in comic book movies/shows other than knock people down and/or knock them out.

I was really disappointed with how much they worfed the Kree 'reapers'. They didn't seem terribly dangerous.

Liberty's Edge

Norman Osborne wrote:
Thomas Seitz wrote:
Anyways back to MCU, I still think Lorelai is in the dungeons so her powers probably wouldn't be a factor in this instance.
I'm not so sure Lorelai would necessarily be in the dungeons. "Odin" sent Sif to capture her. And "Odin" was Loki.

Given that Loki is male, clever, dislikes people being able to challenge his authority, and it would break character (and thus potentially give away that he isn't Odin), I seriously doubt she's anywhere other than the deepest dungeon he can find. Or dead.

If she couldn't control him, it might be different. But she could, and he's not stupid.

On the actual episode:

Spoiler:
Well, that went pretty much how I thought it would (though Mack blowing up the Kree was awesome and a bit unexpected in the moment).

Trying some other ways to kill Hive is a good plan, and I'm a bit sad they didn't, but I'm betting it wouldn't have worked anyway, so it's a forgivable lapse.

I was fine with the Kree being thugs. That matches every other Kree we've ever seen in the MCU. I'm pretty sure their weapons probably could at least disable Hive, and they figured they'd have backup if someone activated the beacon. They were wrong.

Daisy's reactions are gold. She's still so very clearly herself...except for the shift in priorities. It's super neat.

I actually really enjoy Hive as a villain. His motivations are interesting, as is his serious problem separating himself from those whose memories he's taken.

I really liked May casually shooting Daisy in the shoulder. May has a job. She does it, and she's good at it, and that's it in a nutshell. She didn't pause or blink, she just shot her friend and protege in the shoulder. That's who she is.


Marik Whiterose wrote:
Coulson's Revenge

Oh that. Yeah well. I think it was a one off.

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Dear Agent May:

You know, you could have won that fight. You waited until the Kree warrior was killed, and then had your people shoot Hive with a couple rounds of automatic fire and a rocket. And then you ran away with a big ol' scowl.

If you had used your intervention to split Hive's attention while the Kree warrior was still alive, you could have piggy-backed on the hand-to-hand combat, letting the Kree's threat tie up Hive's ability to go after you.

Did you notice that it takes Hive some time and effort to heal? If you had hit it with like, maybe five or six rockets, that might have disabled Hive enough for the Kree to get in a killing attack. At least, the first shot slowed it down, so another shot could have hit it in its face, which might have blinded it.

Fitz has this stuff he made with Creel's blood. It's supposed to reverse the effects of Hive's infection. You have these "icer" guns that shoot chemicals into people. If you had shot it with this stuff, the bullets might have had some effect. We're pretty sure that plain old bullets don't. (Unless you keep shooting it, for a few thousand rounds. Even if it takes him a minor amount of energy to heal, that's a lot of healing.)

Good luck next time.

Dear Director Coulson:

I was under the impression you were going all in against this guy. Where was Creel? Where was Deathlok?


Was it me or was coulson a lil quick to put someone in a murdervest instead of taking the 5 minutes it wouldhave taken for Fitzsimmons to make an icer vest?

Liberty's Edge

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Was it me or was coulson a lil quick to put someone in a murdervest instead of taking the 5 minutes it wouldhave taken for Fitzsimmons to make an icer vest?

It was specifically noted (by FitzSimmons) that the icers don't work on people infected by Hive. So...that pretty much doesn't work.

Chris Mortika wrote:

Dear Agent May:

You know, you could have won that fight. You waited until the Kree warrior was killed, and then had your people shoot Hive with a couple rounds of automatic fire and a rocket. And then you ran away with a big ol' scowl.

If you had used your intervention to split Hive's attention while the Kree warrior was still alive, you could have piggy-backed on the hand-to-hand combat, letting the Kree's threat tie up Hive's ability to go after you.

Wouldn't have worked. Hive was playing, not fighting. He could have done his 'swarm of death' trick at any time he wanted, and ended that portion of the fight in moments.

She maybe should've tried, but it wouldn't actually have helped.

Chris Mortika wrote:
Did you notice that it takes Hive some time and effort to heal? If you had hit it with like, maybe five or six rockets, that might have disabled Hive enough for the Kree to get in a killing attack. At least, the first shot slowed it down, so another shot could have hit it in its face, which might have blinded it.

That's not a bad idea, but I got the impression they were prioritizing getting out alive over greater odds of success. They barely escaped as it was.

Chris Mortika wrote:
Fitz has this stuff he made with Creel's blood. It's supposed to reverse the effects of Hive's infection. You have these "icer" guns that shoot chemicals into people. If you had shot it with this stuff, the bullets might have had some effect. We're pretty sure that plain old bullets don't. (Unless you keep shooting it, for a few thousand rounds. Even if it takes him a minor amount of energy to heal, that's a lot of healing.)

As noted above, they specifically know that the Icers don't work. And the thing with Creel's blood is a vaccine that makes people not turn into Inhumans. It provably does nothing to people who are already Inhuman (they tried it on Lash, remember?)

So...no. they know for a fact the drugs you mention do nothing.

Or did you mean the thing that Lincoln tried? That might've been worth a shot...but as was proven later in the episode, it didn't actually work. So...the result would've been identical. Heck, maybe they did shoot Hive with that one. It didn't get mentioned, but it wouldn't need to be since it didn't work.

Chris Mortika wrote:

Dear Director Coulson:

I was under the impression you were going all in against this guy. Where was Creel? Where was Deathlok?

That is a very interesting question.

With Creel, there is the fact that Creel isn't his asset, but that of the ATCU under the General. Who he hasn't told about the stuff with Hive yet.

So, that may've played a role. As for Deathlok...I love the guy, but what can he do offensively that a rocket launcher can't?


Deathlok would be toast against Magneto...er, that guy who can control things. He was able to play with Coulson's hand - with Deathlok he'd have pretty much the entire body to play with.

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Grey Lensman wrote:

Deathlok would be toast against Magneto...er, that guy who can control things. He was able to play with Coulson's hand - with Deathlok he'd have pretty much the entire body to play with.

Wait, I thought they killed that guy when the Secret Warriors rescued the SHIELDies and took Mallick hostage. Or was that the guy with the medusa stare?

Liberty's Edge

Mark Moreland wrote:
Grey Lensman wrote:

Deathlok would be toast against Magneto...er, that guy who can control things. He was able to play with Coulson's hand - with Deathlok he'd have pretty much the entire body to play with.

Wait, I thought they killed that guy when the Secret Warriors rescued the SHIELDies and took Mallick hostage. Or was that the guy with the medusa stare?

The guy with the Medusa eyes was the one who died. We haven't seen much of the telekinetic since then, but he was the one who Hive told he had a plant, so he's alive. What he's been up to is an interesting question...


Well, the Kree being chumps is nothing new. They took one out last season with a net.

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Chris Mortika wrote:

Dear Agent May:

You know, you could have won that fight. You waited until the Kree warrior was killed, and then had your people shoot Hive with a couple rounds of automatic fire and a rocket. And then you ran away with a big ol' scowl.

And what was the big deal with that handgun?

Everyone else was arguing over who got to use the giant rocket launcher guns, and May's all 'If I need a gun, I'll take one from someone.' which is appropriately badass (if utter nonsense, since she's going into a fight with people like Giyara, who can telekinetically murder you at a distance and doesn't even bother to carry guns), but then Mack puts Chekov's Gun into her hand in a Very Special Moment and it amounts to a fat stack of jack, since it was apparently just a standard handgun, and not something Special at all...

Ugh. C'mon people, be smarter than the crew over at STAR labs, at least.

'I have an idea! Perhaps if we run away further, it will confuse him!'


Regarding Creel, he's not like his Comic Counterpart who routinely fought Thor to a standstill. (Yes I'm sad about that.) No idea how he'd handle a guy like Hive who is basically a living infection. You need something with incredible healing factor...like a Hulk maybe.

As for Deathlok, while he is advanced, he's not advanced enough to do much more than your standard RPG rounds against something like Hive.

Regarding Agent May attacking WHILE Hive fought the Kree, I don't think the outcome would have changed with the amount of missiles. Hive has pretty much regenerated himself to full capacity, meaning it would take a massive power (think Cyclops optic blast or Quantum Bands) to really hurt him enough to chase him off. Once they saw he could survive one missile explosion, I doubt they'd consider using something more powerful. ESPECIALLY when there's a good possibility there would blow back from the ensuing explosion. Thus killing the team probably as well as HIVE. Something I doubt May would sanction much less Coulson.

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What are the odds that the "dead shield agent" from Daisy's dream sequence will be one of the new agents rather then a core cast member?


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Lord Fyre,

It's pretty good odds based on a few polls I've seen on the internets.

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Thomas Seitz wrote:

Lord Fyre,

It's pretty good odds based on a few polls I've seen on the internets.

So, all this dramatic build-up for a "last minute" fake out.


My money is on the agent that got the big gun (who seems to be on loan from Supergirl's DEO).


Norman Osborne wrote:
My money is on the agent that got the big gun (who seems to be on loan from Supergirl's DEO).

Toastmaster and all?


Die and then res via CPR? SOME of the viewers haven't seen buffy right?

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