Agents of Shield


Television

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Aberzombie wrote:
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted ** ** spoiler omitted **

Yea...I have a slightly different theory, but that one's kinda neat...

Spoiler:
I too think that it was (given the terrified flight scene) Strucker Jr who lit the place up to cover the loss of his associates and their manner of death. Two options:
1: Andrew isn't as helpless as they thought...he was married to the 'Cavalry' after all

or

2: "We were attacked by a tiny Asian woman" "Try again, she was here!" "Um, this one was older...said something about doing something more permanent to your legs than what you did to her husband's."


Quote:
"We were attacked by a tiny Asian woman" "Try again, she was here!" "Um, this one was older...said something about doing something more permanent to your legs than what you did to her husband's."

I dun geddit


Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
This show needs to be more about Coulson again.

I'm with you on this one PDK. I've said it before and I'll say it again; Phil is us in this show.

Coulson geeks out over spy gear and tech most of the time; wouldn't you? He doesn't always make the right calls, he admits when he's out of his depth and he genuinely cares about his people. I love that about Phil.

Too often on this show people are super heroic. Daisy has powers, Mac is ridiculously strong, May is the "cavalry" and so on. Even with a cyber hand Phil still seems like the one "normal" of the group so every time he's on screen its a chance for the audience to relate on their level with the "supers."

I hope this human element stays in Coulson's character. I want him to continue being accessible. Sure I'd love it if he had more screen time but so far each season has kind of taken one or two characters and developed them significantly and Phil already had his time in the sun I suppose.

Y'know who REALLY needs more time though? Koenig. Lanyard anyone?


Rynjin wrote:
Quote:
"We were attacked by a tiny Asian woman" "Try again, she was here!" "Um, this one was older...said something about doing something more permanent to your legs than what you did to her husband's."
I dun geddit

Spoiler:
May's mom, who, according to her Dad, is still out there doing her 'spy stuff'.
Scarab Sages

Spiral_Ninja wrote:
Aberzombie wrote:
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **

Yea...I have a slightly different theory, but that one's kinda neat...

** spoiler omitted **

Hmmm....I like this theory.

Liberty's Edge

I really did enjoy this episode. The multiple cliffhangers setup in this week's episode were all pretty strong.

Spoiler: Favorite Cliffhanger:
My favorite cliffhanger is Gemma ready to talk about the alien world. I am really looking forward to finding out what happened on the Alien world.
Do not get me wrong, I am also interested in the other cliffhangers. Such as is Andrew alive or dead? Also, who is Lash in his human form and is there a connection to Daisy / Skye?

Anyway, since I watch this show on Hulu. I avoid the thread until after I see the current episode.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

I have a feeling that next week's episode will be 100% alien world stuff, and keep those other cliffhangers dangling for another week before we find out what happens next with them.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I would be fine if the next episode is a 100% alien stuff.

Sovereign Court

Is it me or 2015 feels lite Marvel-wise? if it wasn't for Netflix Daredevil and Jessica Jones... I'm not sure the rest really cuts it, satisfaction-speaking...


I thought Ultron was a bit disappointing, but Ant-Man was pretty solid

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

2015 was going to feel less imho than 2014. Guardians of the Galaxy and Captain America the Winter Soldier were both outstanding movies. Ant-Man and Ultron were fun but just not up there in that league.

On the TV front, I am really liking Agents of Shield now more so than in the past. I need to give Daredevil another try so no comment there.

Sovereign Court

Saw NetDevil twice now and I could watch it again. Foggy character makes that show. Fisk is equally amazing.


Does Gemma annoy anyone else or is it just me?


Gemma is which one?

Sovereign Court

Goldmyr wrote:
Does Gemma annoy anyone else or is it just me?

Just you. Turin it's simmons.

Sovereign Court

Count me in on the Gemma annoyance club. She's supposed to be a scientist not some charismatic soft painter of Shelyn. Less drama more sampling!

Scarab Sages

Hama wrote:
Goldmyr wrote:
Does Gemma annoy anyone else or is it just me?
Just you. Turin it's simmons.

What he said.

I find her too damn much of a sexy-smart-limey-chick to be annoying.


Not annoyed by Simmons, just annoyed by the trope. The one thing I like about Fitz isn't that he's tough or cool or any other stereotype. I like that he suffered a major trauma, physically and mentally, but kept working.

THAT'S a super hero to me. Most normal people, people I've known, suffer a major injury and give up their old lives. I've got brain trauma, my hands don't work the same... whatever.

Fitz worked through it, he rehabbed. He's a scientist at his core and it shows. That kind of personal struggle should be played out more on TV.

Simmons just seems to keep falling apart, piece by piece, and that's the trope. The "fairer sex" thing. When trauma happens to Fitz, he works through; when it happens to Simmons she snaps.

I'd like to see Simmons get back in the lab, HER lab. Take control lady! Yes, some terrible stuff has happened to your friends, colleagues and now even you. Get through it. Endure. You were a successful double agent in HYDRA for goodness sake!

I suppose that's why I like Mockingbird/Bobbi. She has obviously suffered over the years, outside what we've seen in the show. Within the show she's doing her PT, rising to challenges and keeping at what she needs to do. More of that in the women on TV, less Simmons-type self-destruction.

That's why I think, eventually, Simmons is a potential villain.


Well, it did take Fitz quite a while to rehab. He was hallucinating for a while because of his trauma. I say let's see what happens to Simmons in her spotlight episode before judging too harshly.

Sovereign Court

More sampling!


You're conveniently overlooking that Fitz had time between seasons (months of time), and several episodes on-screen before he started to "work through"

People generally don't jut snap back from a trauma immediately.

Sovereign Court

Let me expand. First season was better when they worked as a team i.e. team meetings, where everyone give their inputs to Coulson, who wasn't Director, but some type of field commander of a rank that eludes me at this time.

Now, it's "split the party time!"

Everyone just mills around individually on personal angst-riddled errands, and DIIIIIRECTAH! Coulson just keeps all the freaggin' info to himself... Plus I don't remember how bionic hand happened. Which jokingly I assume could have laser fingers.

Shadowy villain or charlie-angel-like-boss-man-in-the-shadows work for NPCs... not major characters in the show.

You feel more for the hero when you have a clue what he's planning. Now they're taking Coulson further and further away from the hero personae and into "brass" territory where politics and kindom-building are becoming his primary concerns.


That's generally what happens when someone is thrust into higher and higher command positions. Coulson is Fury right now.

Coulson tried to be the friendly everyman last season while in command and it led to everyone assuming he was off his rocker and constant disobeying of orders.

He has more responsibilities right now. Some of those responsibilities require him to compartmentalize information and form alliances he'd rather not. It's good character development. People adapt to the roles they need to fill, or they break. Coulson isn't the type to break.

Sovereign Court

I never really understood why they took Fury out as a Director of Shield... Sam Jackson could have enhanced every Marvel movie with his connecting presence... I smell greed from Marvel, and unwillingness to shell more dough Jackson's way.

Nick Fury has ALWAYS been at the top of SHIELD. I just don't buy Coulson as that guy, sorry. Especially if you've read Coulson in the comics. He's not quite a comic relief but it's easier to relate to him vs. Fury due to his humor and every day man approach to things (i.e. when he was in space with Fury, and s$@# scared, that was fun... when he went undercover south, he basically drank and grew a beard for a week, hanging by a beach, chilling.)

The Coulson from the current show is no longer the Coulson from the first Thor movie and the one they ran with in the comics. Not saying it's bad, but it's not my personal preference. There's a never ending supply of paladin-like serious in command types in Marvel that they didn't need to make Coulson one of those.


Keeping Nick Fury as leader of shield would be make AoS incredibly awkward, since they would all be following orders from a character who pretty much has to remain offscreen. It's fine if you want to just do a "investigation of the week" style show, but that was arguably the front half of season 1, where the show was at its most boring, and just didn't work.


On the Colson front, is there still that counsel that voted on how SHIELD would react to things, or has that been dropped.

I also like that Colson is acting more like a leader. Maybe he's not as open, but you don't get to stay as leader of a secret organization without keeping secrets of your own.

Sovereign Court

I don't want to start a flame war, but let's consider that Nick Fury (from the comics), was originally a white dude, and when Sam Jackson got the part there was brief astonishment, but most Marvel fans soon readily accepted the change as a positive one (Sam Jackson is such a badass actor that even people with "black agenda" conspi-racist views could not muster the argument that this was done for the "diversification of Marvel")

...and bam. After 5 min they make the head of SHIELD a white dude again.

I'm aware of the positive "COULSON" effect within Marvel, and I genuinely love the actor and the guy, but geez, couldn't they keep Sam Jackson/Fury as the head honcho of SHIELD? Wasn't there some room for coexistence?? The show doesn't need to focus on the Director. If they can make a show like '24' shoehorn an entire season's worth of shows in a single day, story-wise, what's stopping "Agents of SHIELD" from operating on a less grandiose arc, with stories spanning months and months, in preference of a more focused operation spanning one season? (i.e. one season could have been spent finding Von Strucker's castle which gets stormed by the Avengers at the beginning of their second movie, instead of just 'honorable mentions' here and there... make the show actually matter for the movies, and don't be afraid to 'mix the blood' i.e. have Coulson (again!), Sky, or Fitz show up in certain big screen scenes, perhaps running simulations for Stark or Banner or uploading some life-saving software to Jarvis remotely...)

I feel it would be better that way... more connected. With the current way you can almost hear the beans being counted and the lawyer papers rustling in the background...


Samuel L Jackson has been Fury for YEARS now. As long as the Ultimate universe has existed.

It's not a race thing, it's a practicality thing. Implying otherwise is frankly silly. TV shows can't afford Samuel L Jackson. They don't have the budget. They might have been able to get Wesley Snipes to dress up like him and hoped nobody could tell the difference, but that was as close as you're gonna get to Jackson on the TV show.

Likewise, making the TV series required watching for the movies, and vice versa is not a good idea. It starts to continuity lock the series and dwindles your potential new audience as they fall further and further behind with each new film or season.


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PDK wasn't saying the TV show should be required viewing. He was more saying there should be more crossover. Sort of like how Black Widow got to be in Captain America's movie—we were able to appreciate her in his movie without needing to see Black Widow's own*.

*OH WAIT


Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

I don't want to start a flame war, but let's consider that Nick Fury (from the comics), was originally a white dude, and when Sam Jackson got the part there was brief astonishment, but most Marvel fans soon readily accepted the change as a positive one (Sam Jackson is such a badass actor that even people with "black agenda" conspi-racist views could not muster the argument that this was done for the "diversification of Marvel")

...and bam. After 5 min they make the head of SHIELD a white dude again.

I'm aware of the positive "COULSON" effect within Marvel, and I genuinely love the actor and the guy, but geez, couldn't they keep Sam Jackson/Fury as the head honcho of SHIELD? Wasn't there some room for coexistence?? The show doesn't need to focus on the Director. If they can make a show like '24' shoehorn an entire season's worth of shows in a single day, story-wise, what's stopping "Agents of SHIELD" from operating on a less grandiose arc, with stories spanning months and months, in preference of a more focused operation spanning one season? (i.e. one season could have been spent finding Von Strucker's castle which gets stormed by the Avengers at the beginning of their second movie, instead of just 'honorable mentions' here and there... make the show actually matter for the movies, and don't be afraid to 'mix the blood' i.e. have Coulson (again!), Sky, or Fitz show up in certain big screen scenes, perhaps running simulations for Stark or Banner or uploading some life-saving software to Jarvis remotely...)

I feel it would be better that way... more connected. With the current way you can almost hear the beans being counted and the lawyer papers rustling in the background...

Mrgh....

Dark Archive

I didn't like Coulson in Thor or Iron Man 2 (in both of which he came across as kind of smarmy), and I still don't really like the character (and was a bit 'wut?' that Tony Stark was all, 'oh, we call ourselves the Avengers because we're all terribly upset that you killed the dude whose name I literally could not be bothered to know until my girlfriend told it to me yesterday').

I don't really care who runs SHIELD. I got into the show for kick butt May, kick butt Ward, delightfully b$@~$y Fitz and too cute for words Simmons. Now I'm a big fan of kick butt Bobbi, too (which is good, because Ward's gotten a little too crazy for me, and Simmons nearly lost me with the whole hating-on-metahumans/aliens/whatever phase she went through).

For some reason Hunter isn't doing it for me (I liked Tripp better). Maybe I've swung too far away from the 'British accents automatically make people cooler' stage of my personal (d)evolution to 'Whedon characters with British accents now annoy me.' :)

I am wondering where they plan on taking this Inhumans stuff, since the movie has been, IIRC, pushed back to 2018 or something. Can they milk this for three more years before introducing the Royal Family, or will we have Inhuman-build-up-fatigue?


Set wrote:

Maybe I've swung too far away from the 'British accents automatically make people cooler' stage of my personal (d)evolution to 'Whedon characters with British accents now annoy me.' :)

Hope...


Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

I don't want to start a flame war, but let's consider that Nick Fury (from the comics), was originally a white dude, and when Sam Jackson got the part there was brief astonishment, but most Marvel fans soon readily accepted the change as a positive one (Sam Jackson is such a badass actor that even people with "black agenda" conspi-racist views could not muster the argument that this was done for the "diversification of Marvel")

...and bam. After 5 min they make the head of SHIELD a white dude again.

I'm aware of the positive "COULSON" effect within Marvel, and I genuinely love the actor and the guy, but geez, couldn't they keep Sam Jackson/Fury as the head honcho of SHIELD? Wasn't there some room for coexistence?? The show doesn't need to focus on the Director. If they can make a show like '24' shoehorn an entire season's worth of shows in a single day, story-wise, what's stopping "Agents of SHIELD" from operating on a less grandiose arc, with stories spanning months and months, in preference of a more focused operation spanning one season? (i.e. one season could have been spent finding Von Strucker's castle which gets stormed by the Avengers at the beginning of their second movie, instead of just 'honorable mentions' here and there... make the show actually matter for the movies, and don't be afraid to 'mix the blood' i.e. have Coulson (again!), Sky, or Fitz show up in certain big screen scenes, perhaps running simulations for Stark or Banner or uploading some life-saving software to Jarvis remotely...)

I feel it would be better that way... more connected. With the current way you can almost hear the beans being counted and the lawyer papers rustling in the background...

Jackson's just too expensive. He's not a cheap man to work with and while not difficult, he does have something of an ego.

The Exchange

Mark Hoover wrote:

Not annoyed by Simmons, just annoyed by the trope. The one thing I like about Fitz isn't that he's tough or cool or any other stereotype. I like that he suffered a major trauma, physically and mentally, but kept working.

THAT'S a super hero to me. Most normal people, people I've known, suffer a major injury and give up their old lives. I've got brain trauma, my hands don't work the same... whatever.

OK sure but Thor can fly and shoot lightning bolts so he's a better superhero.


Something to consider now also is that the TV and movie divisions are now completely separate divisions in Marvel; Feige is with the movies and reports directly to the High Mouse, while Ike Perlmutter still retains controls of the rest of Marvel properties including the TV division. Rumor has it that the split is because of Perlmutter's notorious cheapness, and his disaproval of the increasing budget of Cap 3, to the point where Feige was threatening to quite.

I don't know how this is going to play out in the long run, but its possible we'll see increasingly less cross over between TV shows and movie events. In that environment you are just not going to get long arcs that only exist to set up movies or characters juggling back and forth between the two media.

Sovereign Court

Vote for PDK to replace Perlmutter and you'll see the cash flow and see full CGI Hulk as a guest star!

Sovereign Court

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... followed by Sam Jackson yelling at Coulson: "I'm back from my astral trip with Doc Strange; get out of my chair Phil!"


Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
... followed by Sam Jackson yelling at Coulson: "I'm back from my astral trip with Doc Strange; get out of my chair Phil!"

Well, Phil has already joked about how he is just keeping the seat warm.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I'm tired of these MFING Hydra on this MFING planet. Where's Thor!?


Getting his drunk on with Banner/Hulk, hopefully. ;)

Sovereign Court

GM Niles wrote:
I'm tired of these MFING Hydra on this MFING planet. Where's Thor!?

You joke but you make a good point: if Coulson is Director of SHIELD, why the f$!$ doesn't he get on the phone with these MFING Avengers?????

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
GM Niles wrote:
I'm tired of these MFING Hydra on this MFING planet. Where's Thor!?
You joke but you make a good point: if Coulson is Director of SHIELD, why the f%+$ doesn't he get on the phone with these MFING Avengers?????

Because they don't have clearance to know that he isn't dead. Yeah... that's it.


5 people marked this as a favorite.

Coulson's running on a shoestring budget. He can't afford to pay for shawarma anymore. ;)

The Exchange

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
GM Niles wrote:
I'm tired of these MFING Hydra on this MFING planet. Where's Thor!?
You joke but you make a good point: if Coulson is Director of SHIELD, why the f*~+ doesn't he get on the phone with these MFING Avengers?????

In-world, I believe the reason is that while what he's doing is important, there's much bigger stuff going on. The Avengers are busy with that.


Yeah I'm with Snow, its "just" mad scientists tying to take over the world. SHIELD can handle that...

The Avengers are busy dealing with galaxy spanning problems (lookin at you Thanos). Or, fighting each other (lookin at you Civil War).


Or, you know, they do call in the Avengers when they need them. There is a reason Age of Ultron started with the Avengers raiding the last major Hydra base. They set up the fall of Hydra in Agents of Shield, then actually kill it off in the movie. This most recent base was taken out by 2 top level Shield agents, instead of requiring the entire Avengers team.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Son of Coul vs Civil War.

Spoiler:
Wouldn't it be a kick in the teeth if that was the deciding factor in Civil War? That they found out that SHIELD had TAHITI for one of them dying, to come back wrong? And that Coulson was alive?

I mean it just hit me that if all of SHIELD was wikileaked in Winter Soldier, then Coulson's death shouldn't be a secret any longer. Heck, that makes Fury running his own black book operation all this time.

Scarab Sages

Matthew Morris wrote:
Heck, that makes Fury running his own black book operation all this time.

That's exactly what he has been doing all along. It's the main reason why Edward James Olmos was trying to take down Coulson.

Sovereign Court

Imbicatus wrote:
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
GM Niles wrote:
I'm tired of these MFING Hydra on this MFING planet. Where's Thor!?
You joke but you make a good point: if Coulson is Director of SHIELD, why the f%+$ doesn't he get on the phone with these MFING Avengers?????
Because they don't have clearance to know that he isn't dead. Yeah... that's it.

so it's a metagame reason right? I've seen the Avengers take their medicine and liking it under Mariah Hill, and she wasn't even a Director. I'm guessing Coulson's approach to being a Director is either lame or he knows what's going on with Fury. Still, any man in such a leadership position, even if it's just an Acting position (no pun intended) would be kicking Talbot's ass any day. I think MCU has neutered SHIELD to the point that they would now be overruled by NYPD. Which is unfortunate.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
GM Niles wrote:
I'm tired of these MFING Hydra on this MFING planet. Where's Thor!?
You joke but you make a good point: if Coulson is Director of SHIELD, why the f%+$ doesn't he get on the phone with these MFING Avengers?????
Because they don't have clearance to know that he isn't dead. Yeah... that's it.
so it's a metagame reason right? I've seen the Avengers take their medicine and liking it under Mariah Hill, and she wasn't even a Director. I'm guessing Coulson's approach to being a Director is either lame or he knows what's going on with Fury. Still, any man in such a leadership position, even if it's just an Acting position (no pun intended) would be kicking Talbot's ass any day. I think MCU has neutered SHIELD to the point that they would now be overruled by NYPD. Which is unfortunate.

I'm guessing by the end of this season/Civil War that SHIELD will be back in the good graces of the world enough to have more clout. Just from some of the comments made early this season about how there was a vacuum when SHIELD collapsed, and there's a need for some organization to do that kind of stuff.

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