Tiger Pounce + Power Attack + Combat Style Master = Switch Power attack penalty?

[Rudy2]

There are lots of neat things you can do with Combat Style master. The one I'm wondering about though, involves the following:

Tiger Pounce, among other things, says that when you are using the style, you can apply the Power Attack penalty to your AC instead of your attack rolls.

Combat Style Master allows you to switch styles as a free action.

So, I'm wondering if you could use Tiger Style during your turn, applying the Power attack penalty to your AC, then at the end of your turn, switch to a different style (such as Crane), and thus have the Power Attack penalty go back to your attacks since you were no longer using the style.

In other words, on your turn the Power Attack penalty would apply to your AC, and on other people's turns it would apply to your attacks (obviously this means it would penalize your AoOs, but meh.

Seems kosher?

[Claxon]

RAW I think it works, but I'm not sure I like it.

[Cheapy]

Smells of limburger, but it looks like it could work.

If it doesn't work, it's because the penalty from Power Attack persists until the start of your next turn, and it's applied the moment you turn on power attack. There's no indication that it can change.

[Rudy2]

Maybe; personally I don't think it's overly powerful, given the amount of setup you need to implement it. That's a lot of feat investment.

[Weslocke]

Gouda for you, Rudy2. You found a Leerdammer-Loophole. Try not to use it in abondance orla your GM will send that PC back to the monastery.

All kidding aside, it appears to function under RAW.

I would not allow it at my table though.

Far too cream havarti for my tastes. :)

Have a great day!

[Krodjin]

Good question. Personally i'd rule that the penalty persists until your next turn, where it was applied at the moment you received the benefit.

That's not RAW, it's more my gut.

[Dekalinder]

After you apply the penality, it sticks where it belong. This however means you can declare power attack with tiger, then switch to dragon for example.

[Gauss]

I do not think it works.

When you make your attacks the penalty for that attack is now a 1 round effect. The point where you can change the penalty (before attacking) from one to the other has passed. Once you've attacked the penalty is now set for the round.

So yes, you can change Styles, but no, that does not change where the penalty went because it has already happened.

Example:
A Monk makes an attack with power attack while using Tiger Pounce. The Monk suffers a penalty to AC (for 1 round) and gains a bonus to damage.

Next, the Monk switches to Crane Style and makes another attack with power attack. He suffers a penalty to attack (for 1 round) and gains a bonus to damage.

Now, the Monk has done a very stupid thing and has both a penalty to AC for 1 round and a penalty to attack for 1 round. Silly Monk

Summary: The power attack penalty is set when it the attack is made. It does not change retroactively because you change styles.

- Gauss

[Driver 325 yards]

Tiger Pounce simply modifies the language of Power Attack and the penalties applied from Power Attack last until your next turn.

Power Attack reads:

Quote:

You can make exceptionally deadly melee attacks by sacrificing accuracy for strength.

Prerequisites: Str 13, base attack bonus +1.

Benefit: You can choose to take a –1 penalty on all melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks to gain a +2 bonus on all melee damage rolls. This bonus to damage is increased by half (+50%) if you are making an attack with a two-handed weapon, a one handed weapon using two hands, or a primary natural weapon that adds 1-1/2 times your Strength modifier on damage rolls. This bonus to damage is halved (–50%) if you are making an attack with an off-hand weapon or secondary natural weapon.

When your base attack bonus reaches +4, and every 4 points thereafter, the penalty increases by –1 and the bonus to damage increases by +2.

You must choose to use this feat before making an attack roll, and its effects last until your next turn. The bonus damage does not apply to touch attacks or effects that do not deal hit point damage.

Tiger Pounce reads:

Quote:

Your unarmed strikes are as precise as they are powerful, but they leave you open and you can pursue foes with blinding speed.

Prerequisite: Improved Unarmed Strike, Power Attack, Tiger Claws, Tiger Style, base attack bonus +9 or monk level 8th.

Benefit: While using the Tiger Style feat, you can apply the penalty from Power Attack to your AC instead of attack rolls. Additionally, once per round as a swift action, you can move up to half your speed closer to a target you hit with an unarmed strike or made a successful combat maneuver against on this turn or your last turn.

So the penalty, whichever you choose, is applied at the beginning of the round and persist on until you next round.

That said, if you are really switching to Crane Style afterwards, this is good news. Your attacks of opportunity from Crane Riposte do not suffer the minus to hit. Who cares about AC, it is already high using Crane Style and you can block.

Were you playing reverse psychology on these posters?

[Rudy2]

Driver 325 yards wrote:

So the penalty, whichever you choose, is applied at the beginning of the round and persist on until you next round.

That said, if you are really switching to Crane Style afterwards, this is good news. Your attacks of opportunity from Crane Riposte do not suffer the minus to hit. Who cares about AC, it is already high using Crane Style and you can block.

Were you playing reverse psychology on these posters?

No, I wasn't; I was looking for input, and I now think you and a few previous posters are correct in that the combination won't work; The penalty once applied is stuck for the round; ah, well.

That being said, yes, it goes without saying that Crane Style is ridiculously good. Any combo with Combat Style Master that *doesn't* use Crane Style when it's not your turn is suspect. *Maybe* Snake style instead.

Thanks for all the input.