Gaaah. Yep. I had an Oracle of Pharasma with the Bones mystery in a Pbp. The backstory was... enormously convoluted, but ultimately not fun. The GM just disappeared too...
In the APG The Oracle Mystery of bones list Pharasma as one of the associated deities, but then goes on to list Revelations like "Raise the Dead" "Resist Life" "Undead Servitude" and the Final Revelation that gives the ability to animate dead.
These revelations seem to be at odds with other pieces of information re Pharasma and the way she views undead, should there be a pharasma-friendly version of this mystery like what was done for the death domain spells or should Pharasma be removed from this mystery?
Or, as a Pharasma-follower, an oracle of bones would avoid taking those particular revelations and not use the animate dead part of the final revelation. Just because a tool is available doesn't mean you must use it.
Creative Director
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
If you want to be a Pharasma worshiper and you are an oracle of bones, you should not pick up revalations that grant the ability to create undead is all. There's plenty of other revelations in the Bones mystery to choose from. And if the idea of there being some revelations in there that just won't work for you is a deal breaker, there's plenty of other mysteries to choose that would work well for a Pharasmin across the books.
Personally I think it'd be much more fun to be a Paladin of Pharasma. Sadly, the rules don't allow it.
But I might be biased as my own Goddess of Death (and Healing) from a campaign world that's around 20 years old has had a Holy Order (Paladins, basically, in a campaign where I didn't use the alignment system and instead had the Holy Orders follow the dictates of their Church/God) which proved a lot of fun. ;)
The thing is as well the fact is worshipping pharasma is no garonte she's the one providing the divine power.
What James and Bill said.
The game doesn't really go into what exactly the metaphysical details of 'associated deities' of Mysteries are, the deities can't revoke your access to power once you take 1 level of Oracle, and nothing really indicates there is any conscious will on their part in granting it in the first place (whether in general or to you specifically), Oracles are selected by "providence" not the Deit(ies) themselves. The 'associated deities' are 'associated' to the theme/ideal of the Mystery as a whole, that doesn't mean each Deity is associated to every part of each Mystery. The rules just don't support a 'hard' association between any one associated deity and any one power or spell (which also goes for spells, e.g. an associated deity has the opposite alignment to you, yet you may cast spells with descriptors of your own alignment, even though clerics of that deity could not cast those spells). If you want a 'hard' association to one specific deity, then you should be a Cleric. Clearly, if you are getting those Revelations, Pharasma would be hostile to you for using those powers in that way.
Although I am kind of surprised given the amount of expansion crunch material Paizo has done that new Revelations for existing Mysteries haven't really been published. New Mysteries are great of course, but existing ones could clearly be fleshed out by the addition of new Revelations. (Speaking of which, Sorcerors could really use a line of Feat like Eldrtich Heritage but only for the Bloodline they actually have, giving them further "Paragon" abilities appropriate to the Bloodline/improving the base Bloodline abilities... Especially since Wizards seem to get their share of exclusive Feats and PrCs)
Personally I think it'd be much more fun to be a Paladin of Pharasma. Sadly, the rules don't allow it.
Barring Sacred Servant Archetype, Paladins have no particular link to specific deities, and you don't even need to worship any specific deity in the first place (PFS imposes an extra rule there, but it's not the norm for Golarion). There's no reason you can't give respects to Pharasma, especially talking up the aspects/interpretations of her cult that are more in line with Lawful Goodness. Not all of that may legitimately be truly in line with her true personality, but so what? Heresies and splinter sects and bastardizations of faith are par for course.
Heck, what does Pharasma do? She judges souls and sends them to different planes depending on their Alignment/etc. So LG souls depend on her to go to Heaven. I can't believe that a LG Paladin could be unable to see the benefit in heralding the promises of Heaven to those who hew the LG line, and that fully depends on Pharasma, so if she's already revered in the cultural milieu at hand, what's wrong with playing along? There's not really much there that a Cleric of Pharasma would even argue with.
If you are of a community that reveres Pharasma alot, and you aren't otherwise a strong follower of another Deity, I don't see what's wrong with doing that, fully acting in line with Lawful Goodness while tying that in to popular beliefs of Pharasma. Certainly her stance on Undead is in-line with Paladin-hood, and assuaging the common man's fear of death is what the cult really seems about, which doesn't seem in conflict with LG Paladinhood.
The thing is as well the fact is worshipping pharasma is no garonte she's the one providing the divine power.
Certainly. No reason an Oracle of Flame Mystery can't worship Pharasma. There isn't really difference in active relationship there vs. an Oracle of Bones Mystery who worships Pharasma.
@quandary, yes the rules forbid (unless taking said archetype) paladins of any deity not within one step of lawful good (LG, LN and NG deities are all you get) also who's to say it isn't urgathoa messing with Pharasma by granting the making of undead to one of her followers, she's powerful enough to keep it from Pharasma (and it opens up all sorts of crazy hijinks:)
Pharsasma has problems with the more evil uses of undead. she wouldn't have problems if you found a good aligned used for the reanimated bodies of the deceased.
using zombies to construct low income homes for the poor and homeless, or to sew cheap clothing for the poor and the naked is fine.
using zombies to combat evil necromancers is fine
as long as you don't actively murder for the sole purpose of adding to your zombie army
using zombies to save innocent lives is also fine.
I don't really want to think how much micromanaging would be. Involved in using zombie labour for construction.
@quaundry I was simply trying to say is the pcs worship of pharasma isn't really. Connected. The power is granted regardless of belief. What the character does with the power is where belief matters.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Pharsasma has problems with the more evil uses of undead. she wouldn't have problems if you found a good aligned used for the reanimated bodies of the deceased.
using zombies to construct low income homes for the poor and homeless, or to sew cheap clothing for the poor and the naked is fine.
using zombies to combat evil necromancers is fine
as long as you don't actively murder for the sole purpose of adding to your zombie army
using zombies to save innocent lives is also fine.
The church despises the undead as abominations to the natural order, and all priests follow this belief without question; creating undead is forbidden, and controlling existing undead frowned upon.
Pharsasma has problems with the more evil uses of undead. she wouldn't have problems if you found a good aligned used for the reanimated bodies of the deceased.
using zombies to construct low income homes for the poor and homeless, or to sew cheap clothing for the poor and the naked is fine.
using zombies to combat evil necromancers is fine
as long as you don't actively murder for the sole purpose of adding to your zombie army
using zombies to save innocent lives is also fine.
i'd like to know how you plan on teaching mindless undead how to sew, my mind works just fine and i can barely do it:)
i'd like to know how you plan on teaching mindless undead how to sew, my mind works just fine and i can barely do it:)Pharsasma has problems with the more evil uses of undead. she wouldn't have problems if you found a good aligned used for the reanimated bodies of the deceased.
using zombies to construct low income homes for the poor and homeless, or to sew cheap clothing for the poor and the naked is fine.
using zombies to combat evil necromancers is fine
as long as you don't actively murder for the sole purpose of adding to your zombie army
using zombies to save innocent lives is also fine.
Mindless undead can still follow instructions, and may be programmed to perform certain mundane activities.
teaching a zombie to sew isn't any different from teaching them to cook
it is mostly a matter of time and practice
i disagree, to each there own i guess, sewing sounds too complicated for zombies and skeletons. also have YOU built a house? its not as easy as it looks (and yes I have built a house)
i'd like to know how you plan on teaching mindless undead how to sew, my mind works just fine and i can barely do it:)Pharsasma has problems with the more evil uses of undead. she wouldn't have problems if you found a good aligned used for the reanimated bodies of the deceased.
using zombies to construct low income homes for the poor and homeless, or to sew cheap clothing for the poor and the naked is fine.
using zombies to combat evil necromancers is fine
as long as you don't actively murder for the sole purpose of adding to your zombie army
using zombies to save innocent lives is also fine.
Mindless undead can still follow instructions, and may be programmed to perform certain mundane activities.
teaching a zombie to sew isn't any different from teaching them to cook
it is mostly a matter of time and practice
zombies and skeletons are MINDLESS they CAN'T learn from time and practice, when you sew you have to think about the next step, what happens when you come to the end of the seam, etc. i just don't believe a zombie or skeleton is capable of such intricate projects. maybe repetitively hammering a nail, but considering they're MINDLESS cant make adjustments when the nail gets skewed or bent, they just keep hammering at it. i think when they put programming in for zombies and such it was for orders like "guard this room from anyone not wearing a red hat" or "row this boat until we reach shore" not "sew a cross stitch" or "add lace to all these dresses" sorry but your argument is just wrong, i'm sure others would agree with me (especially tailors and house builders) sewing and construction are not for the mindless dead.
also how would a zombie cook, that'd taste terrible, how do you expect them to season to taste, or not over cook or under cook everything (not to mention ALL the health code violations involved) and yes before embarking in a new career in construction i was a sous chef for ten years.
zombies and skeletons are MINDLESS they CAN'T learn from time and practice, when you sew you have to think about the next step, what happens when you come to the end of the seam, etc. i just don't believe a zombie or skeleton is capable of such intricate projects. maybe repetitively hammering a nail, but considering they're MINDLESS cant make adjustments when the nail gets skewed or bent, they just keep hammering at it. i think when they put programming in for zombies and such it was for orders like "guard this room from anyone not wearing a red hat" or "row this boat until we reach shore" not "sew a cross stitch" or "add lace to all these dresses" sorry but your argument is just wrong, i'm sure others would agree with me (especially tailors and house builders) sewing and construction are not for the mindless dead.i'd like to know how you plan on teaching mindless undead how to sew, my mind works just fine and i can barely do it:)Pharsasma has problems with the more evil uses of undead. she wouldn't have problems if you found a good aligned used for the reanimated bodies of the deceased.
using zombies to construct low income homes for the poor and homeless, or to sew cheap clothing for the poor and the naked is fine.
using zombies to combat evil necromancers is fine
as long as you don't actively murder for the sole purpose of adding to your zombie army
using zombies to save innocent lives is also fine.
Mindless undead can still follow instructions, and may be programmed to perform certain mundane activities.
teaching a zombie to sew isn't any different from teaching them to cook
it is mostly a matter of time and practice
is a Zombie whom is programmed to help contribute to building houses or sewing clothes? any different from a robot with the same programming?
Robots and Zombies are both mindless. they are both intended to follow orders
yet many sci fi authors have no issues with Robots sewing dresses, so why can't a zombie with similar programming and a powerful enough necromancer setting up a similar level of complex protocol any different.
ignoring the basic premise of stuff like terminator
we have plenty of Sci-Fi works were robots are used to perform physical activities.
why can't we have a fantasy work where Zombies? the fantasy equivalent to robots in the fact they are mindless and programmed? achieve the same results.
a zombie is not a robot, big difference, and i've never seen a robot build a house. try again:)also robots have this thing called ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE, Zombies don't and can't have INTELLIGENCE of any kind (it even says this in their stat block:)
zombies and skeletons are MINDLESS they CAN'T learn from time and practice, when you sew you have to think about the next step, what happens when you come to the end of the seam, etc. i just don't believe a zombie or skeleton is capable of such intricate projects. maybe repetitively hammering a nail, but considering they're MINDLESS cant make adjustments when the nail gets skewed or bent, they just keep hammering at it. i think when they put programming in for zombies and such it was for orders like "guard this room from anyone not wearing a red hat" or "row this boat until we reach shore" not "sew a cross stitch" or "add lace to all these dresses" sorry but your argument is just wrong, i'm sure others would agree with me (especially tailors and house builders) sewing and construction are not for the mindless dead.i'd like to know how you plan on teaching mindless undead how to sew, my mind works just fine and i can barely do it:)Pharsasma has problems with the more evil uses of undead. she wouldn't have problems if you found a good aligned used for the reanimated bodies of the deceased.
using zombies to construct low income homes for the poor and homeless, or to sew cheap clothing for the poor and the naked is fine.
using zombies to combat evil necromancers is fine
as long as you don't actively murder for the sole purpose of adding to your zombie army
using zombies to save innocent lives is also fine.
Mindless undead can still follow instructions, and may be programmed to perform certain mundane activities.
teaching a zombie to sew isn't any different from teaching them to cook
it is mostly a matter of time and practice
is a Zombie whom is programmed to help contribute to building houses or sewing clothes? any different from a robot with the same programming?
Robots and Zombies are both mindless. they are both intended to follow...
the amount of time spent overseeing 1 zombie during a construction project would be cost prohibitive, you cant just say "build this house or garage" you have to tell them EVERY SINGLE STEP from "nail this nail or "hold this board here" or any other amount of instructions. you might as well just build it yourself, a zombie is not "the fantasy equivalent of a robot" i'm pretty sure that would be a ROBOT. and what "powerful necromancer" is going to want to micromanage 1 zombie to cook a meal, sew a dress or build a house? seems like they (and their apprentices) would have something better to do.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Again, from Gods and Magic:
Priests, Temples, and the Church Members of the priesthood are usually clerics, diviners, or “white necromancers” (wizards who study necromancies other than the creation of undead), . . .
The church despises the undead as abominations to the natural order, and all priests follow this belief without question; creating undead is forbidden, and controlling existing undead frowned upon.