Whats the big deal about Cthulhu? Why do you like the Mythos?


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Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Aurumaer wrote:


DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
Lovecraft should not be dismissed any more than Tolkien should be dismissed, or any more than any other writer who created enduring works, but they shouldn't be considered sacred either. Some people like the idea of killing Cthulhu, others think that's blasphemy. All that matters is what you and your table enjoys.
While I agree that what your table enjoys is what matters most, I would argue that killing Cthulhu misses the point. One of Cthulhu's core traits is that he's unbeatable. It would be like if you took the Paladin and said that in your game they have no alignment restrictions or code of conduct to follow. Then you've got a class called Paladin but it's fundamentally different from the "Paladin" that other people are using (though perhaps enjoyable in its own right). Similarly, a stat block can be given the name Cthulhu and fighting it might well be fun but at the end of the day you're talking about a very different idea from what most people would consider "Cthulhu"

It's called adaptation, and it's no different from playing Mutants and Masterminds and punching Galactus in the face. Yes, it's a power fantasy and the idea of beating the most powerful is appealing. I've said it before:

There are few things as fun as effing the ineffable.

The Exchange

pepperoni wrote:

Hello,

We, well my son really , is new to the Pathfinder game and he is looking for advendture stories but solo adventures stories. Are the Pathfinder Tales that one can purchase from this site solo adventures? I tried to find out this answer by reading about the product as well as reading the help section. I know this is off topic for you but I could not find how to post elsewhere and we looked at this site and messageboard because we live outside Brattleboro. Thanks for any information you may have for us!

Pepperoni, you should start a thread to cover this as this is a bit of a divergence. If you go into a particular board (but not a specific thread) you will see on the top-right corner a link saying "Start new thread" or something like that. To answer your question as far as I can - there seem to be very few, if any, solo adventures for Pathfinder. They are difficult to pull off as characters are fairly specialised and intended to play in a party with complementary abilities, rather than alone. This makes designing solo adventures difficult.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

LazarX wrote:
Lovecraft is essentially the Tolkien of the Gothic Horror genre. He's the inspiration of a bunch of other great names of the period and afterward, and he still inspires today.

I'd say Bram Stoker is the Tolkien of the gothic horror genre, not Lovecraft.

The Exchange

Or Mary Shelley. But the genre was well enough established for Jane Austen to parody it in Northanger Abbey in the 1810s.


Which one came first; Dracula or Frankenstein?

Silver Crusade

Edgar Allen Poe. :)

(but actually Mary Shelley, also making her the mother of science fiction!)

The Exchange

Icyshadow wrote:
Which one came first; Dracula or Frankenstein?

Frankenstein, by roughly a century (or 80 or so years, anyway). But given that Northanger Abbey pre-dates both, I think it's probably fair to say that Gothic fiction was alive and well before Frankenstein too.

Sovereign Court

Drackenstein? Or Francula?


I'm not a lovecraft or cthulhu fan myself for a monster ton of reasons... Lovecraft loved cats, so I make sure that cats don't last long and are frequently the only things attacked by eldritch abominations in my campaigns... Despite loving cats he sucked at writing women... Space cat people... hate grimdark.... Hate the blobby god thing with unpronouncable names trope... Dark speech.... You're not summoning cthulhu. You're summoning the great green arkleseizure....

Most of what is thought of as lovecraftian was actually introduced by his buddies after he died... so not a big fan of capitalizing on your dead friend's legacy....

5 dudes creating a mythology based around turning one dead man's nose pickings into world destroying pantheon seems like the kind of stuff I would have thought was cool when I was 7, but I uh... I'm kinda over the cat loving Great God Booger.

So to the OP's post I say... I agree... I sure don't see what makes it so awesome unless you're totally into the genre...

Then again I had a hard time getting into sparkly vampires too...

Time to kick some kids off my lawn again I guess....


Vincent, you insane fool! The fanboys will have your head for the heresies you spouted!

They won't just loiter on your lawn, but they'll burn it before coming over to cut out your tongue!!


ElyasRavenwood wrote:


I am curious. What do people like about the “chuthulu’ mythos? Why should I be interested in it?

The idea of things so totally strange and alien that you can become insane by seeing them, reading about them and such is.. creepy.

The mythos has everything needed for a cool, creepy horror out of nightmares.

Not the bloody slaughter most contemporary horror flicks have but the real thing. Imagination running wild.

We had a call of cthulluh game going for some time which was really intense. It was by far the best time I ever had with roleplaying and close to the best time in my whole life. But had we gamed that way for lot longer, I don't think we would still be sane (assuming we are).

Perhaps this is the reason I have a problem with most other so called horror roleplaying games or adventures, because they all rather resemble splatter movies in that you defeat evil left and right instead of having the goal of surviving and remaining sane as long as you can, as was the case with our CoC game.

Evil you CAN defeat in a fight is not really horror.

I think one of the best things about the mythos is that it was created before everything was adapted for TV. Because TV locks your imagination and by this is the enemy of real horror.


pepperoni wrote:

Hello,

We, well my son really , is new to the Pathfinder game and he is looking for advendture stories but solo adventures stories. Are the Pathfinder Tales that one can purchase from this site solo adventures? I tried to find out this answer by reading about the product as well as reading the help section. I know this is off topic for you but I could not find how to post elsewhere and we looked at this site and messageboard because we live outside Brattleboro. Thanks for any information you may have for us!

Pathfinder Tales are just novels set in the Pathfinder setting of Golarion. As far as I am aware there are no solo Pathfinder gamebooks.

The Exchange

Evil Finnish Chaos Beast wrote:

Vincent, you insane fool! The fanboys will have your head for the heresies you spouted!

They won't just loiter on your lawn, but they'll burn it before coming over to cut out your tongue!!

Eh, I though about it, but then decided he was clearly not worthy of enlightement.


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The first Lovecraft book that I read was "At the Mountains of Madness". I loved the depths of space and time that the book plumbed. Even at that age I knew that the universe was immense and that world was billions of years old. HPL knew that to, and used it to his advantage, along with other scientific themes. In comic books, pre-human races looked just like humans, or nearly so. In "At the Mountains of Madness", the pre-human race isn't even bilaterally symmetric, and is described so clearly that the picture that I drew of one resembled the illustration that Erol Otus drew of them in Deities and Demigods.

Also, living in New England meant that many of the stories were set relatively nearby, and references to actual things (like the VT floods or the Moodus noises) added to my enjoyment.

Silver Crusade

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Lovecraft is at his best when presenting spooky and creepy. The mysteriously amoral clinical nature of the scientists of Yith, or the ones at the Mountains of Madness brooding over their ancient kingdoms.

As I said earlier though, he has some..lets say, flaws in his writing that become evident from reading them a lot.

1.) Lovecraft tends to do the literary equivalent of waving his hands in the air when describing how big the fish was. It was squamish, and 'unspeakable,' its always unspeakable. This means less my imagination fills in the blanks and more I just imagine him freaking out over seafood.

2.) Lovecraftian protagonists tend to be blander then Clark's protagonists (who are all barrel chested, but strangely soulless astronauts/scientists). Lovecraft's protags are all generic people who walk into situations that a wiser person would avoid like the plague. I like the Festival, but when you go to a place for a 'tradition' and find out that no one in town talks to you, all the fireplaces are out, and the light reading they offer you is the freaking necronomicon, I don't think you should stick around because your Dad said you should check it out.

3.) Cthulhu really isn't that important. Not in Lovecraft. In Lovecraft he's a dude sleeping on the bottom of the ocean, a collection of a laundry list of other ancient horrors and his very 'horror' is kind of negated when you realize the Yithians are aware of other races on the planet, and well...polyps are just freaking meaner.

Again though, I like them in short doses. I find them intriguing and Lovecraft's ability to write genuinely alien things overcomes what I view as some literary shortcomings.

Lovecraft also gives us a nice idea of how totally clinical scientist types can be just as frightening as slavering moon beasts. It also gives us ideas for adventures.

The Festival is totally non-threatening to the person engaged in it, save for the fact the people around him are all worm monsters and things that crawled from the sea. But what were they really intending to do once they went into the sea again with him?

Harry Houdini's encounter with the animal mummies just gives a horrible image of what might be happening in places we just don't venture into.

What was going on in 'The Temple?'

And so on.

Shadow Lodge

Spook205 wrote:
Lovecraft's protags are all generic people who walk into situations that a wiser person would avoid like the plague.

Yet for some reason it's popular on these forums to deride them as cowardly. Forging ahead into the darkness when everything is screaming that this is not a place where mankind was meant to go is the OPPOSITE of cowardly.

Meanwhile, Pathfinder characters that refuse to enter combat without 5 or 6 rounds of pre-combat buffing are held up as the height of heroism.


There's a difference between bravery and stupidity.

Pathfinder characters who charge in without buffs are stupid, not brave.

First level characters who decide to go up against a gang of orcs are brave.

First level characters who decide to go up against an ancient red dragon are stupid. Common sense.

Silver Crusade

I never doubted their courage, just their fortitude and wisdom. ;)

They swoon at the slightest provocation, but they also demonstrate remarkably poor judgmeent, or nigh suicidal curiousity.

I actually always thought it was hillarious that most of the cthulhu monsters ignore these fainting elizabethans that seem to show up in their living room, gasp something about 'The UNNAMABLE!' and then collapse.

I keep getting images of like the Worms that Walk looking at the guy, shaking their heads at comments about how 'some kids can't hold their nightgaunts,' and then tucking him into a chasm outside of town for collection.

That I think actually is one of the things that makes Lovecraft's stuff interesting. The monsters are no more beneficial then maleficient.

They're alien.

Silver Crusade

pepperoni wrote:

Hello,

We, well my son really , is new to the Pathfinder game and he is looking for advendture stories but solo adventures stories. Are the Pathfinder Tales that one can purchase from this site solo adventures? I tried to find out this answer by reading about the product as well as reading the help section. I know this is off topic for you but I could not find how to post elsewhere and we looked at this site and messageboard because we live outside Brattleboro. Thanks for any information you may have for us!

ElyasRavenwood wrote:
LazarX wrote:
ElyasRavenwood wrote:

I don't know if this is the best place to put this question but it was the best place i could think of.

I know allot of people here like H. P. Love Craft’s stories. Allot of people love the “Chuthulu Mythos”.

My exposure to the “Chuthulu Mythos” , apart from the D&D then Pathfinder game, has been fairly limited. I have played in a couple of Chuthulu rpg games with friends and I enjoyed myself. I realized I mostly enjoyed myself because I was playing with my friends.

I have been told that I live in “HP Lovecraft” territory……SE Vermont. More specifically Brattleboro VT. A friend has informed me that Lovecraft spent some time in the Brattleboro Retreat. I have also read “The Whisperer in Darkness” which takes place in Brattleboro and Townsend, and mentions the West River. These are places I have some familiarity with.

I am curious. What do people like about the “chuthulu’ mythos? Why should I be interested in it?

Thanks

Until you actually read the stories themselves, the actual source material, then you won't understand. Lovecraft is essentially the Tolkien of the Gothic Horror genre. He's the inspiration of a bunch of other great names of the period and afterward, and he still inspires today.

But unless you actually read some of his work, you won't be able to understand why.

Thank you all for your thoughts and opinions. LazarX, you make a good point. Until I have read more
...

Hello Pepperoni,

It's great to hear that you son in interested in Pathfinder. Pathfinder Tales product line is a series of stand alone paperback fantasy novels. The novels usually feature one protagonist with 1 to 3 supporting characters. They often form an "adventuring party", although there is plenty of variation. Are these "solo" adventures? Well the protagonists are not heroes or characters that can do everything like a James Bond, or Indiana Jones, but they tend to loosely fit into a ranger, wizard, alchemist, rogue, etc, and the other supporting characters help round out the skills that they don't have.

I think there are also online short stories as well. I don't know as much about the online short stories.

Oh also you mentioned you live near Brattleboro. There is a Game Store in Keene called Toy City, they sell everything from remote control cars, to model trains, to comics, to board games, to Role playing games and mores stuff. On Saturday nights they have a "game night" from 6:00pm to 10:00 PM. We play Pathfinder games, Magic the Gathering, and other RPGs.
You are welcome to come by. In the Pathfinder game I am playing in, we have one father and son who play.

I Hope this helps,
Myles Crocker


Why do I like Cthulhu? Because he's a B!&&@in' Cthulhu.

B@@&+in' Cthulhu
B!&+*in' Cthulhu
Deep ones on your lawn
B&++$in' Cthulhu
B~%&#in' Cthulhu
R'lyeh rises at dawn

(aw, man - darn filter - let's try substitution...)

B-tchin' Cthulhu
B-tchin' Cthulhu
Deep ones on your lawn
B-tchin' Cthulhu
B-tchin' Cthulhu
R'lyeh rises at dawn

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You can drive a boat into Cthulhu but no one can escape the profanity filter!


Matter of fact in retrospect the only thing I like about Lovecraft is that he was inspired by Ambrose Bierce...

I'm down with that.


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These adventurers saw infinity when they stared into the cyclopean cities of unspeakable horrors, but can they see why kids love the taste of Cinnamon Toast Crunch?


?


I prefer the mythos to lovecraft himself.

I don't love lovecrafts writing. I think it is interesting in places, and filled with some very cool ideas. However most of its value is in understanding the origins of the mythos.

The mythos, and its place in horror gaming, is what I really love.

Lovecraft's mythos brings us themes of cosmic horror and hopelessness which are some of the most fun elements of gaming for me.

I am never so happy as when my character is delving into the unknown, with near certainty of his own demise.

Small victories taste sweeter, when they are one against all the odds, and all the more bitter when shown to be ultimately meaningless1.

Add to this the fact that without lovecraft, many of my favourate bits of horror fiction and horror gaming probably wouldn't exist.

Without "At the mountains of madness" there is no "who goes there." Without "who goes there", there is no "the thing"

Without lovecraft there is not call of cthulhu, and without Call of Cthulhu, there is no delta green, which in turn means no nigjhtfloors and The Last Equation.

it also means no trail of cthulhu, which means we loose the horribly bleak Dying of Saint Margaret's.

Without lovecraft, there is no the atrocity archieve, no concrete jungle, jennifer morgue, no fuller memorandum, and no apocolypse codex.(not to mention the laundery short stories), which means no Laundry files RPG.

Lastly..no eclipse phase.

Yeah, while I don't lovecrafts writing, I am very thankful he wrote.

Silver Crusade

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Also no Hellboy, no BPRD, and for those of us who like that whole japanese animation thing, no Madoka Magica, no Princess Resurrection, no Elder Scrolls. Or at least big hunks of what makes these series fun goes away.

The themes and aesthetics of the mythos sit heavilly on science fiction and fantasy as well as horror. The aliens, the strange unknowable things that linger in the background resonate with us. I like the resonance beause Lovecraft helps me to remind people that angels aren't all happy-dappy nice guys in robes. That some of them are endlessly cycling wheels within wheels, aflame and coated in eyes, always moving, but stationary in the heavens. When I get the O_o look I usually just explain 'its kind of Lovecraftian,' and most nerds just nod and go, 'Oh!"


Spook205 wrote:

Also no Hellboy, no BPRD, and for those of us who like that whole japanese animation thing, no Madoka Magica, no Princess Resurrection, no Elder Scrolls. Or at least big hunks of what makes these series fun goes away.

The themes and aesthetics of the mythos sit heavilly on science fiction and fantasy as well as horror. The aliens, the strange unknowable things that linger in the background resonate with us. I like the resonance beause Lovecraft helps me to remind people that angels aren't all happy-dappy nice guys in robes. That some of them are endlessly cycling wheels within wheels, aflame and coated in eyes, always moving, but stationary in the heavens. When I get the O_o look I usually just explain 'its kind of Lovecraftian,' and most nerds just nod and go, 'Oh!"

I feel this is a tad exaggerated. And really, I'm sure if Lovecraft hadn't done this little revolution of the genre, someone else would have.


Icyshadow wrote:
Spook205 wrote:

Also no Hellboy, no BPRD, and for those of us who like that whole japanese animation thing, no Madoka Magica, no Princess Resurrection, no Elder Scrolls. Or at least big hunks of what makes these series fun goes away.

The themes and aesthetics of the mythos sit heavilly on science fiction and fantasy as well as horror. The aliens, the strange unknowable things that linger in the background resonate with us. I like the resonance beause Lovecraft helps me to remind people that angels aren't all happy-dappy nice guys in robes. That some of them are endlessly cycling wheels within wheels, aflame and coated in eyes, always moving, but stationary in the heavens. When I get the O_o look I usually just explain 'its kind of Lovecraftian,' and most nerds just nod and go, 'Oh!"

I feel this is a tad exaggerated. And really, I'm sure if Lovecraft hadn't done this little revolution of the genre, someone else would have.

The revolution might have taken place. Hell it sort of was even without lovecraft.

But it wouldn't be the same revolution, and nothing influenced by it would be the same either.

It may well not have been as far reaching, either, as lovecraft was prolific in his correspondence, and the length and bredth of his influence is in part due to this.

Hell boy might exist without lovecraft, but it wouldn't be the hellboy we have.

Silver Crusade

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Thats the key point. Hellboy might be a half-fiend being snarky with supernatural entities, but a lot of the 'feel' would be gone.

I'm not a fan of the 'mechanistic' view of creativity some people seem to have, this belief that 'If Shakespeare didn't do it, then someone else would have written Romeo and Juliette.'

Now that being said, nigh every author, or creative person brings his own unique things to the world, adding on to it. There's no inconsequential human being, or inconsequential work. Even the goofiest, most derivative piece of puerile, stupid, fanfic has some glimmer that can be offered to us even if it just contributes as an example of what shouldn't be done.

Lovecraft unlocked certain ideas. The tentacles, the shapeless forms, the seafood, the unknowable things that sit beside us, the ominous vocabulary (the squamous thing!) and these help to present images like colors on a canvass. Others look at them, and are affected.

Whether you like the guy or not (and I think his writing and themes are heavilly flawed) he's still "pretty darn important."


I'm actually lukewarm on Cthulu itself. The earth-like physiology and the "deadline monster" combination of features spoils the cosmic horror aspect for me.

But I love cosmic horror.

And I love camp, separately.

The Lovecraft Mythos contains some instances of excellent cosmic horror and some instances of horrible camp. Sometimes together and sometimes mutually isolated.

I don't think I can honestly take the whole mythos as a single thing on an up-or-down vote.

Silver Crusade

The camp thing really does come out a lot. Its the racism, classism and basic know-nothing bright-ism that bugs me more.

Frankly, I tend to sigh in an annoyed manner when people try to convince me that X Y and Z authors were 'really super racist' for using certain terms that became offensive only later (Chesterton and Clemens leap immediately to mind in this regard).

Lovecraft's views were..let us say, almost Chickian in how he presents them at times. Anyone who doesn't share his particular vision of America is viewed as some sort of nascent malicious being ("The Street" is a work by Lovecraft that frankly offends the crap out of me and it doesn't even have the virtue of being good).

So many of them have the structure of..."And he turned the corner and discovered he was.. ITALIAN!" With appropriate thunderbolts.

I like some of the monsters posited, but the philosophy Lovecraft gives us is positively toxic (although that works I guess in a horror perspective). The guy apparently bought into that claptrap about 'mankind's insigificance in a cruel and godless world,' 'the universe is so big, wah wah wah,' thing and wrote stories presumably to deal with his existential angst (and earn cash).

I think he's done a lot for giving ideas, but like other posters, I believe the mythos came more alive when others got a hold of it (like the controversial Derleth).

Derleth brought in the idea of the various cthulhoid entites having issues with one another, and instead of humankind being a totally inconsequential thing kept around just to be kicked around like a can full of weeds, they occasionally had to deal with stuff like any other species would.

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