I got an idea from an advice thread to build a multiattack style tengu (with the bite and the 2 claws from the claw trait, he qualifies quite easily) (I know the feat is a monster feat, so I'd only play the chracter where it was allowed).
But I'm starting to wonder if multiattack is even necessary. So I have a few questions:
-For the claws (both primary attacks), how does it work on an attack?
On standard: +5 on one claw (but can I do an equivalent of TWF with bite and other claw? Would I need TWF? Multiattack? Multiweapon figthing?)
On full attack: According to other forum posts, I could get +5/+5 on each claw. Not sure what I can do with the beak though.
-For the beak: Does this count as a primary or secondary attack? (doesnt specify in the tengu entry). How can I combine this with my other natural attacks?
Any help understanding would be appreciated. I just want to see how much I can get out of these multiple (relatively weak) attacks.
When full attacking with natural weapons, you attack with each natural weapon. Both primary and secondary.
When combining manufactured and natural weapons you make you standard attacks with your manufactured weapons, and all natural weapons count as secondary(you can't use natural attacks on limbs used to wield the manufactured weapons/shield or carry stuff).
Why do you get +5? Primary attacks get BAB on attack and +STR on damage, secondary attacks get BAB-5 on attack rolls and only do +½STR on damage.
Multiple primary natural attacks are awesome at low levels, many believe overpowered.
Note: The +5 was a placeholder (I could have put +1 as well)
Another (supplementary) question:
-Do you need feral combat style for tengu claws? The fact that they say you qualify for things requiring "improved unarmed strike" seems to suggest I could, for example, take "boar style" pretty easily.
-Still not sure about the beak attack
-Still also not sure about why natural attacks arent treated like TWF (Which would allow you a second attack on a full attack) but I can live with it.
In any case, I'll post a build in the advice forums tonight, trying to get some tips. I'll probably take a monk or a fighter (monk would likely get the most out of this).
Note: The +5 was a placeholder (I could have put +1 as well)
Another (supplementary) question:
-Do you need feral combat style for tengu claws? The fact that they say you qualify for things requiring "improved unarmed strike" seems to suggest I could, for example, take "boar style" pretty easily.
yep, if it requires improved unarmed strike - you are considered having it.
-Still not sure about the beak attack
All natural attacks: full attack bonus, +STR to damage.
Combined with manufactured weapon: -5 to attack bonus, +½STR to damage.-Still also not sure about why natural attacks arent treated like TWF (Which would allow you a second attack on a full attack) but I can live with it.
You don't need TWF, you can make a second attack with a natural weapon as long as you don't use the limb to wield the manufactured weapon.
In any case, I'll post a build in the advice forums tonight, trying to get some tips. I'll probably take a monk or a fighter (monk would likely get the most out of this).
You can't combine flurry of blow with natural attacks with out something that specifically allows it. (they are not monk weapons, and they don't get your unarmed damage from monk).
I could take monk flurry with a feat (feral combat training) but since I have 3 natural attacks, I'll get more just out of the normal progression (IE 3 attacks per extra +5 BAB. Better than TWF with no loss of BAB). With a full fighter, at level 20, that would seem to imply 12 attacks per full attack.
Still doesnt answer whether or not the beak is a primary or secondary natural attack. I'll consider it primary until further order.
My question relating to TWF was more along the lines of "if I do a standard attack (not full) can I treat my extra attacks (IE beak, claw weapon) as off-hand weapons/secondary attacks? Or am I limited to full attacks to use all natural weapons?
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My question relating to TWF was more along the lines of "if I do a standard attack (not full) can I treat my extra attacks (IE beak, claw weapon) as off-hand weapons/secondary attacks? Or am I limited to full attacks to use all natural weapons?
You only get a single attack on a Attack Action (Standard), so it's kinda irrelevant; You can opt to use one of your natural attacks on a Attack Action (Standard), but will only get to use all your attacks on a full-attack.
My question relating to TWF was more along the lines of "if I do a standard attack (not full) can I treat my extra attacks (IE beak, claw weapon) as off-hand weapons/secondary attacks? Or am I limited to full attacks to use all natural weapons?You only get a single attack on a Attack Action (Standard), so it's kinda irrelevant; You can opt to use one of your natural attacks on a Attack Action (Standard), but will only get to use all your attacks on a full-attack.
But I thought you could (in a standard attack) use TWF? How does a second natural attack (or third) not count as an "off-hand" thing? Since the claws are treated as "unarmed strikes", couldnt they be treated as "off-hand" to, let's say, your beak (bite)?
Note:
For the magus build, I think it could be cool, but at the moment I'm focusing on natural attacks; less Attack bonus reduction, plus at +5 bab you can take the blood beak feat and your beak does 1d6+bleed 1.Combine that with boar style and everything will bleed for you.
Aha! Apparently I was completely wrong, you dont get an extra off-hand attack for a standard attack, my mistake.