The Default Gunslinger: Worth Not Taking an Archetype?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I'm at a bit of a impasse. No matter what I try, I can't seem to come up with a good reason for someone to do use the default Gunslinger over one of the (IMO) better archetypes. And I mean that in every way- both power and flavor wise, each the archetypes actually feel like they're locking in something interesting and unique about being a gunslinger; the default one...well, I know that's part of the point (being more generalized, both technique and flavor wise), but it still leaves me feeling...lacking.

I see no reason why someone would bother being a standard Gunslinger; Pistolero and Musket Master specifically seem to just do it better, period. Neither would gain any benefit whatsoever of using their opposite number, while the generic Gunslinger seems to fail to have any advantage. He's stuck taking feats the others don't bother with or get for free, and gets very little benefit to being more "Flexible."

At the end of the day, the Generalist of any class should be just as capable in their own way as the counterparts. The Fighter does this fairly well, I believe; I wouldn't bat an eye at playing a standard Fighter over using an archetype if that's what the person wants to do. I can't say I feel the same about Gunslinger.

These are just my initial feelings and attitude. I'd love some input from the community on whether this is a consistent trend, or I'm missing something.

Dark Archive

Honestly, pathfinder is a game of specialization in which you are rewarded for being good at a few things rather than okay at many things. The idea is for you to have to rely on your party for what you aren't specialized at.

The gunslinger reflects this as by its archetypes specializing in a type of gun they focus on and thus doing very well with it versus being good with guns in general and being okay at it. This philosophy shows itself when looking at wizards as well with generalist being the weakest of the wizard types.


There's something to be said about being able to freely use any kind of gun you find, rather than only one- or two-handed ones, and I think the base gunslinger is still best at siege guns.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

The only main pre-advanced firearms that aren't pistols or muskets are the scatter-shot (blunderbuss/dragon pistol) weapons, the Pepperbox, and the buckler gun. The blunderbuss is interesting, but never being able to get the Full Attack action with one is unfortunate (Lightning Reload only gets you one extra attack). Dragon Pistol is cute, but its crushingly small range makes it somewhat useless without dedication to feats and such. The Pepperbox is not bad, but runs into the same issue as the Blunderbuss; once you use up those first six shots, you'll never be able to get back up to Full Attack firing speed. And the buckler gun is just...odd.

You make a good point about Siege Weaponry, Golux, but unfortunately that's a very rarely usable ability unless your setting specifically promotes it.

And in most settings you won't be "finding" many guns- you'll be making them yourself or seeking out specific ones.

I guess my issue is that whereas a Fighter can, by default, be excellent with a vast array of weaponry, a Gunslinger finds himself extremely limited in his effectiveness with anything except one or two specific types of guns. He can't add his Dex to the damage of more than one weapon until 9th, while the Pistolero and Musket Master have been getting bonuses to their chosen weapon almost since day one. He'll never be able to make most of the two-handed early firearms worth the money and time (slow firing speeds murder full martial characters like this).

I think my main issue is that the 2-handed firearms are simply not any better than their smaller counterparts. Going from a d8 to a d12 is very minor even at early levels, and their range is barely better than the Pistol's; Gunslingers (aside from the Gun Tank) will be mobile enough to close such a small gap, and will have the actions free to do so because they can reload their weapon faster. If 2-handed firearms were a bit better in their own right without the Musket Master saving them, I think a generalist would be a lot better off.
Every generalist Gunslinger I make ends up just using the standard Pistol because none of the 2-handed weapons ever seem worth the time. At which point the question becomes why not just be a Pistolero.
Maybe Pistolero should have been the default, and the generalist should have been a special archetype, haha.

/walloftext


I have no idea why you would be a standard gunslinger either, pistolero or musket master just makes more sense.

Shadow Lodge

There's a new archetype out there for seige weapon gunslingers. I think it's in dragonslayer's guide.

I'm finding the base gunslinger to be a useful dip for my magus. But that's only one level so he can use a blunderbuss and dragon pistols.

For muskets, I'll agree with you. The fast reload at level 3 of musket master is too important to go without.

For pistols, you can do fine in the main class. Up-close-and-deadly is nice bonus damage, but you can go without it.


Yeah you can, but you are giving up bonus damage for nothing really.

The thing you give up at level 1 you get back later haha


there are some reasons for this, the reloading rules effectively make 2H early firearms useless unless you have the MM archetype and if you are confined to 1H firearms by the reloading rules then you might as well take an archetype which trades limiting you to 1H firearms for more power. the firearms reloading rules as written just really do not work well and color the way the class works too much.

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