City of Locusts (GM Reference)


Wrath of the Righteous

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GM Reference thread for City of Locusts.

Dark Archive

So my wizard is so going to be on a "lets gather all my pets for my demiplane."


I was actually, genuinely saddened and upset with one particular thing.

Spoiler:
I spent several hours crafting Terendelev into an interesting, engaging character in her human form for the PCs to interact with. She was witty and enjoyed a clever joke, loved to banter with those around her, and had a cheeky sense of humour. I was going to loosely base her personality on Samantha Carter, from Stargate: SG-1.

My plan is that the PCs will meet her when they arrive in Kenabres, and get to know her a little before the opening sequence.

I wanted them to feel genuine grief when she was killed, valiantly saving their lives while fighting the Storm King.

But to find she has been defiled and turned into a ravener? Oh...that hurts. That really, really hurts. *sniff*...*wipes away a tear*.

It's tres cool, but it's so cruel!

I've only had a quick flick through the book so far..is there a way to force her back to a simple state of death? I'm thinking maybe some Wish magic or somesuch.

They can't leave Terendelev like that! They just can't!

Dark Archive

Daronil wrote:

I was actually, genuinely saddened and upset with one particular thing.

** spoiler omitted **

Killing her in this state lets her soul be released to the afterlife. Also as the GM you can have the PC's resurrect her after beating her.


Brad -

Spoiler:
I was thinking along those lines, but (and I don't have the book handy) wasn't there something that prevented her being resurrected? I have a vague memory of something like that...

Scarab Sages

While anything is in undead form, it can't be brought back to life. You have to destroy the undead first.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Lochar is correct.


I was confused by this bit...

Spoiler:
"This hideous defilement has not only prevented the noble silver dragon’s soul from moving on to its reward, but also prevents her restoration at her allies’ hands via effects like true resurrection."

I read that as meaning you can't "do the usual thing" with true resurrection, which is to destroy the creature, then resurrect it to life. That's why I was wondering if there was another way of resurrecting her.


It means you can't

Spoiler:
cast True Resurrection on her scale to bring her back because she's an undead monstrosity. But once you destroy her undead form you can cast it on her corpse or her scale to restore her to life.
Of course, that's assuming someone tried to use True Resurrection prior to that point on said individual.


Ah!

Spoiler:
Oh, okay! I get what it's saying - had I known Terendelev's fate already, I wouldn't have allowed that anyway; the text was a reminder, not a directive. It does raise an interesting question, however - probably not really relevant, as few people who were running the AP as it's been coming out would be up to part 5 yet - but if that had been the case, it could have been embarrassing for the GM that allowed the 18th/8th Cleric in the group to true resurrect Terendelev at the end of part 5, only to be embarrassed on reading part 6! :)

That is one of the reasons I wait until all of an AP is out before starting them - I don't like surprises as the GM! :)

But seriously, James - you guys have really raised the bar with WotR. Until now, Carrion Crown was my favourite AP - but you're really excelled yourselves with this one! :)

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber

I'm hoping to start running it in March/April - with a non-Mythic Group. I honestly think the challenges in Book 6 (as written) are beatable as non mythic, for a standard party that is well built and played by experienced players.

I'm thinking (based on what the books suggest) having Book 4 be level 14-17, book 5 is level 17-19, and in book 6 you just hit level 20, maybe with some bells and whistles a the end.

Probably will start another thread on that at some point.


I'm still reading through City of Locusts, but I was pleasantly surprised by the inclusion of...

Spoiler:
Pyralisia, the Rain of Embers!

I was actually going to include her between book 3 and book 4 as a kind of bonus boss. I guess I'll rethink those plans.

Aponavicius is also a bit different than I expected.

Spoiler:
Sword of Valor stated that she ingested one of the Nahyndrian Elixirs, but she's not a Mythic creature.


i was quite confused on Aponavicius not being mythic also.

Scarab Sages Contributor

Tch, tch, tch.

Spoiler:
Terendelev doesn't have feather fall as a spell known. For shame.

On a more serious note, this book does indeed turn up the intensity knob. Like wow.

Scarab Sages

Deskari could have stripped her of it/suppressed it due to her losing Drezen. Lots of demons got on the shit lists for losing Kenabres and Drezen, so what's one more?


UllarWarlord wrote:

Tch, tch, tch.

** spoiler omitted **

On a more serious note, this book does indeed turn up the intensity knob. Like wow.

If it makes you feel better...

Spoiler:
her stats in Dragons Revisited (page 51) do have Feather Fall. I look forward to the potential rematch between her and the Storm King.

Silver Crusade

I agree, about the bird and the demon, but to be honest Aponavicus is still a very impressive enemy. I guess due to the nature of certain mythic abilities, the kinda have to meet non-mythic foes too.

If you want to explain it with in-game logic, consider the fact that drinking the nahyndrian elixir was still quite dangerous even to demons, and the alchemist on charge was trying to make it safer. Risking one of his most important minions might have seemed to risky to Deskari.

Dark Archive

I have a question I thought going above +5 for magic weapon was not possible. Also if you can go over do you actually need a +6 weapon to overcome DR/Epic? Or will a +5 Evil Outsider bane weapon overcome DR/Epic?

Scarab Sages

Yeah, they reissued the rules on it brad. Anything with a total value of +6 or better, including special abilities, bypasses DR/Epic now.

Dark Archive

Lochar wrote:
Yeah, they reissued the rules on it brad. Anything with a total value of +6 or better, including special abilities, bypasses DR/Epic now.

Thanks

Paizo Employee Creative Director

UllarWarlord wrote:

Tch, tch, tch.

** spoiler omitted **

On a more serious note, this book does indeed turn up the intensity knob. Like wow.

She doesn't need to know that spell. It's a spell like ability available to all silver dragons. Which is why we removed it from her spells known from her old pre-Pathfinder stat block.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Danit wrote:
i was quite confused on Aponavicius not being mythic also.

I waffled a bit between making her mythic and not... and in the end, I decided that it was more interesting to NOT make her mythic. It does mean there's a disconnect between her stats and one brief line early on... but by not making her mythic but still making her powerful I wanted to do something specific...

Pretty much ALL of the major NPC villains from there on out ARE mythic, and I wanted the mythic PCs to have at least one villain that had been foreshadowed to not be mythic so as to give them the satisfaction and delight of seeing how their mythic powers work against a non mythic foe that has been built up.

It's basically a present to the mythic PCs so that they'll actually FELL like they're mythic. If every battle is equally deadly... you never feel like you're getting more powerful, after all.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
grandpoobah wrote:

I'm hoping to start running it in March/April - with a non-Mythic Group. I honestly think the challenges in Book 6 (as written) are beatable as non mythic, for a standard party that is well built and played by experienced players.

I'm thinking (based on what the books suggest) having Book 4 be level 14-17, book 5 is level 17-19, and in book 6 you just hit level 20, maybe with some bells and whistles a the end.

Probably will start another thread on that at some point.

I think you'd have to leave out the "non mythic targets get no saving throw" abilities at the minimum.


I was actually surprised about Aponavicius's lack of Mythic Power as well, and I'm likely to bump her up to Mythic Rank 6 or so at least. That's not a fight that should be below the power curve.

Scarab Sages

Beyond that, there's so many effects that say "non-mythic targets are screwed" that it'll be over in half the time you think it should.


Since there are 7 characters in my party, I think I'll grant Aponavicius some mythic tiers nonetheless ;)

Grand Lodge

In Bestiary 4, the demon lords have notes about their power ups for being in their realms. Those helpful little "*" were lacking from Baphomet, and now from Daskari as well. Are they not "in their realms" and getting the upgrades, or was that just omitted? (Sorry if this is being asked again, I'm just not recalling having seen it is all).

Scarab Sages

They were omitted. The easy answer is 'if there is a mythic version of the spell, the demon lord has access to it'


Lochar wrote:
They were omitted. The easy answer is 'if there is a mythic version of the spell, the demon lord has access to it'

I'm more of a jerk than that. I'm giving them the Mythic Subtype in addition to 10 Mythic Ranks, and all of the benefits that come along with that. It doesn't technically read that way in the AP, but I feel it's a reasonable assumption.

At that point my party will be Tier 10 and putting out absolutely silly amounts of damage (I already have one player throwing 8 ranged atacks a round with a +2 Splitting, Throwing, Agile, Evil Outsider Bane, Chaotic Outsider Bane, Demon Bane Kukri Legendary Item) so I do expect them to be able to kill a Demon Lord in one round. Giving Deskari 10 mythic ranks and the mythic subtype might just give him a chance of surviving for a few rounds. It also gives his Balors a few rounds to possibly murder people. I intend to make it a truly terrifying fight, and with the final boss of an AP I do not pull punches. My players know this this and they are OK with it.

Scarab Sages

And the Deskari fight is technically optional. You could claim that before first death they actually have the full 10 mythic ranks, but the process of resurrection only gives them the little baby mythic.

That way it's still reasonable for your players to have murder-faced Baphomet.


Lochar wrote:

And the Deskari fight is technically optional. You could claim that before first death they actually have the full 10 mythic ranks, but the process of resurrection only gives them the little baby mythic.

That way it's still reasonable for your players to have murder-faced Baphomet.

I don't expect my party to murder face Baphomet. I plan to use Mythic Augmented Time Stop and a number of scrolls to their fullest ability should my players decide to try to face Baphomet.

Scarab Sages

That too. But it can still be the difference between MR 10 and just the little mythic the book gives out.


That's true. He could technically be in a weakened state due to the first death at the hands of Nocticula, and could explain why the PC's are able to kill him at the level they are. I like it.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Sprain Ogre wrote:
In Bestiary 4, the demon lords have notes about their power ups for being in their realms. Those helpful little "*" were lacking from Baphomet, and now from Daskari as well. Are they not "in their realms" and getting the upgrades, or was that just omitted? (Sorry if this is being asked again, I'm just not recalling having seen it is all).

That was an omission. In the future, we'll probably keep them, but I'm not sure how often we'll be doing them in the future.

Scarab Sages

Of interesting note, Deskari in his write up DOES have summon demons. Did someone start statting him out with his mythic capabilities and just didn't finish?


Lochar wrote:
Yeah, they reissued the rules on it brad. Anything with a total value of +6 or better, including special abilities, bypasses DR/Epic now.

This gets me thinking, how would one figure out if a specific weapon, like from the specific weapon list, can bypass epic damage reduction. Unlike most weapons a lot of their abilities don't have an equivalent numeric bonus that can easily be totaled up. It seems powerful ones would either still not be able to get passed dr/epic or it would take GM fiat to make it so.

Scarab Sages

Total cost of a +6 bonus is 72k. I'd say any specific weapon with a cost higher than that.


Can anyone confirm if Khorramzadeh has the highest touch AC of any published creature?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Touch AC 48, you can figure out the rest.

Grand Lodge

Lochar and James, thanks a lot!


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Maybe I missed something but:

Spoiler:
Two of the areas to use dimensional lock are incorrect on page 37. F20 doesn't mention anything about using dimensional lock and F25 isn't a location. F17 is described as a dimensional lock location, but I don't see the fourth.

Scarab Sages

Cute. F2, F6, and F17 are the current ones, so...

I would assume number four should either be F11 (The wound itself), or F21 (Where Areelu is doing the expansion ritual)

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Aldarionn wrote:
Lochar wrote:
They were omitted. The easy answer is 'if there is a mythic version of the spell, the demon lord has access to it'

I'm more of a jerk than that. I'm giving them the Mythic Subtype in addition to 10 Mythic Ranks, and all of the benefits that come along with that. It doesn't technically read that way in the AP, but I feel it's a reasonable assumption.

At that point my party will be Tier 10 and putting out absolutely silly amounts of damage (I already have one player throwing 8 ranged atacks a round with a +2 Splitting, Throwing, Agile, Evil Outsider Bane, Chaotic Outsider Bane, Demon Bane Kukri Legendary Item) so I do expect them to be able to kill a Demon Lord in one round. Giving Deskari 10 mythic ranks and the mythic subtype might just give him a chance of surviving for a few rounds. It also gives his Balors a few rounds to possibly murder people. I intend to make it a truly terrifying fight, and with the final boss of an AP I do not pull punches. My players know this this and they are OK with it.

Um, you do know that Bane effects don't stack with themselves, right?

The source is all considered Bane, even if it's Bane against separate foes. So, against demons, your friend has a +4 +2d6 item, NOT a +8, +6d6 item.

If he wants damage to stack, he needs Holy and Axiomatic.

===Aelryinth


Aelryinth wrote:
Aldarionn wrote:
Lochar wrote:
They were omitted. The easy answer is 'if there is a mythic version of the spell, the demon lord has access to it'

I'm more of a jerk than that. I'm giving them the Mythic Subtype in addition to 10 Mythic Ranks, and all of the benefits that come along with that. It doesn't technically read that way in the AP, but I feel it's a reasonable assumption.

At that point my party will be Tier 10 and putting out absolutely silly amounts of damage (I already have one player throwing 8 ranged atacks a round with a +2 Splitting, Throwing, Agile, Evil Outsider Bane, Chaotic Outsider Bane, Demon Bane Kukri Legendary Item) so I do expect them to be able to kill a Demon Lord in one round. Giving Deskari 10 mythic ranks and the mythic subtype might just give him a chance of surviving for a few rounds. It also gives his Balors a few rounds to possibly murder people. I intend to make it a truly terrifying fight, and with the final boss of an AP I do not pull punches. My players know this this and they are OK with it.

Um, you do know that Bane effects don't stack with themselves, right?

The source is all considered Bane, even if it's Bane against separate foes. So, against demons, your friend has a +4 +2d6 item, NOT a +8, +6d6 item.

If he wants damage to stack, he needs Holy and Axiomatic.

===Aelryinth

Enhancement bonuses do not stack, so he is only getting +2 from the bane. That is already factored in. I don't see why he wouldn't get the 6d6 though as it's much like getting hit with multiple rays from a Scorching Ray or multiple missiles from a Magic Missile. They are all damage from the same source, but they don't provide a "bonus" so it is still added.

Not that it really matters that much. It adds an average of 14 damage to the attack which in not very much compared to the rest of his flat. When that character takes average damage and blows a point of mythic power to double the damage of a hit he is pushing 90-100 damage per attack and he has 8 of them in a round at Level 9, Mythic Tier 3. That doesn't even account for his 15-20 crit range.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

The source of the dice damage is still the bane effect.

What you're proposing is something along the lines of a reflected lightning bolt. If it goes through the target, hits a wall, and bounced back in the direction it came from, he takes double damage, right? It's just dice, it should stack! Even if it is from the same source!

No, the dice don't stack. Bane is already THE best enhancement you can get, pound for pound, if you know what you are going to be fighting. The dice don't stack any more then a Flaming Flaming Flaming Flaming sword would stack.

If you want to be nice to him, he could add the Sun Sword 'scourge' effect of +2 Enhancement vs Evil. That would Stack, and it's effectively a +1 Cost, and also a great thing to have.

You're thinking of Bane as something that stacks. It's not, Bane is a constant damage source of +2/+2, +2d6. As you add different types, what you're doing is expanding what Bane damage can touch, NOT introducing different sources of damage.

It's like saying I have a sword that affects only undead. Oh, I then enhance it so it also hurts aberrants! Just because I then fight an undead aberrant doesn't mean my sword does double damage...it's still the same source, and does the same base damage.

Likewise multiple Banes. You're just expanding what the Bane damage can hit, not introducing a brand new bundle of Bane damage.

==Aelryinth


Aelryinth wrote:

The source of the dice damage is still the bane effect.

What you're proposing is something along the lines of a reflected lightning bolt. If it goes through the target, hits a wall, and bounced back in the direction it came from, he takes double damage, right? It's just dice, it should stack! Even if it is from the same source!

No, the dice don't stack. Bane is already THE best enhancement you can get, pound for pound, if you know what you are going to be fighting. The dice don't stack any more then a Flaming Flaming Flaming Flaming sword would stack.

If you want to be nice to him, he could add the Sun Sword 'scourge' effect of +2 Enhancement vs Evil. That would Stack, and it's effectively a +1 Cost, and also a great thing to have.

You're thinking of Bane as something that stacks. It's not, Bane is a constant damage source of +2/+2, +2d6. As you add different types, what you're doing is expanding what Bane damage can touch, NOT introducing different sources of damage.

It's like saying I have a sword that affects only undead. Oh, I then enhance it so it also hurts aberrants! Just because I then fight an undead aberrant doesn't mean my sword does double damage...it's still the same source, and does the same base damage.

Likewise multiple Banes. You're just expanding what the Bane damage can hit, not introducing a brand new bundle of Bane damage.

==Aelryinth

There are several threads that both agree and disagree with you. From what I can find it seems to be a bit of a hotbed topic.


Ahh, apparently you are correct. It got an FAQ:

http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9rdl

Good to know.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Yeah, the FAQ is why this changed. Otherwise, getting a double Bane weapon for WoR is, like, AWESOME.

Special note: Mythic Bane is specifically noted to stack with normal Bane!!

==Aelryinth


Having only recently finished reading this volume, and loving this adventure path, I would have to say this is without a doubt the weakest volume in the path. I felt like at least 2 AP's of material and plotline was squeezed into one volume, and a lot of story elements feel kind of rushed. Especially the attack upon Drezen by the Marilith general, which feels like it could be removed completely without influencing anything. I kind of understand the reason...the statblocks for this volume are LONG and take up quite a bit of space.

If I were to get this far in the Adventure, this adventure would definitely require the greatest amount of reworking and fleshing out.


Yeah, I still liked the adventure but it did feel like it was trying to pack too much into too small a space.

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