Updated cards—what to do?


Pathfinder Adventure Card Game General Discussion

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I vote yes for the PDF and yes for the 8$ corrections deck. Also wanted to add that I find the explanation of the business and logistical considerations interesting, educational, and VERY helpful in determining what I would be willing to pay for. Thanks very much for the information.

The Exchange

I would prefer both.

I'd use the PDF option as a short term solution and end up buying the reprints after a couple months.


Since I've already had to sleeve my cards to make the changes on the sleeve rather than the actual card, the pdf file would satisfy me. Once sleeved, you wouldn't be able to tell any difference from the back side, which is the side that matters. Both options would be nice for those who won't sleeve, though. Personally, I don't like to play with sleeved cards so I might would even order those, myself. But I'd be content with the pdf and definitely think it should be an option.


I would gladly pay for the $8 option, you should go for that. The pdf option should be so cheap for you that should also be available. The idea of either pre-printed labels or a pre- formatted pdf for labels should also be doable for those who use sleeves. But i think you were really floating the balloon to see how much we were willing to pay and whether we hated the slightly smaller card size. Again i say use that option


I would go for both the PDF and the reprints.


I would pay for errata'd cards for sure! Would be much easier than looking them up constantly!


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I would pay for them, if also as a symbol of goodwill why not Paizo offer up some of the promo cards up with every shipment of the Errata cards?


@glenn3e - would be nice, but I doubt it's going to happen!


I would pay (probably a lot) for the reprints. I don't sleeve my cards so I would probably just write the errata directly on the cards if there was no reprint.

So: would pay for replacement; no need for pdf since I would mark up existing cards.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Since I only gave suggestions and not a vote I will now.

I have no interest in a POD option that is not the same card stock/size.

As I mentioned above I would prefer a later option of slipping reprints of the errataed cards into an expansion pack, similar to what Fantasy Flight Games does.

Though I will take a free PDF with the errata/clarifications.


I've read through all the posts after recently discovering this thread. To make it easier for those who care, I have a brief set of stats that give an idea of how the forum feels on the topic.

* 90% of posters expressed a desire for replacement cards for errata'd material
* 5:1 ratio, people prefer the entire errata made into a POD, rather than just the essentials.
* 80% of people want a pdf.
* 40% of the people who want a POD mentioned a desire for an exact card size match.

I'm using rounded numbers and interpreting some posts as best as I can.

- - -

I want to wait until the next Adventure Path comes out to have corrected cards available. "Let the dust settle". This gives Paizo the option to include essential(game changing) errata in future releases while maintaining the card quality of the base set.

I agree with previous posters that an extra expansion pack should be made to include all errata as well as some interesting bonus cards. I'm sure some clever design work could make the whole "errata" thing the result of a goblin prank. Oh the things gobbies will do for their jollies. What is the best answer? More content. It keeps the pocketbooks full, the suppliers happy, and the consumer ravenous. Wait a sec...

To summarize my thoughts:
Yes, reprinted cards should be made available/sold.
Yes, a pdf would be handy.
No, I don't think a POD is the best answer.
Yes, exploit me.

I've had good experiences with Paizo thus far and look forward to supporting them in the future. I hope this has helped.


We had printed our own modified cards (ugly). But my group has set PACG aside until we can buy updated cards and print out an updated rule book.


MajorHavok wrote:
We had printed our own modified cards (ugly). But my group has set PACG aside until we can buy updated cards and print out an updated rule book.

That's quite extreme - there are not that many cards which are broken and the rules are fairly simple once you've got your head around a couple of key concepts (which are mainly laid out in the FAQ and Mike's recently stickied post).

There's also the Turn Sequence breakdown which people have found useful:
http://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/95118/turn-sequence-breakdown

The updated cards would be great to have, but I don't think it's so bad as-is that you need to shelve the game!

Grand Lodge

Dragnmoon wrote:


As I mentioned above I would prefer a later option of slipping reprints of the errataed cards into an expansion pack, similar to what Fantasy Flight Games does.

Dragnmoon, you should check out Vic's original post. Unfortunately, the only way corrected cards are going to get printed is thru POD, which will not match the size exactly.

So it's an option of pdf, slightly differently sized cards, both, or none.
And an option of a small set of the cards with errors, or a bigger set which also includes cards with clarifications.


Vic, is there any chance a reprint might be done eventually? The game has clearly done very well, but I wondered if it had done that well that you might be considering it (or if you're willing to share whether The Plan is to focus more on follow up "base sets").


The PDF solution is the one I like best. How will we be notified when/if the PDF becomes available? Will it appear on the PACG page like the FAQ link?

Oh, and yay, Skinsaw murders out now :) Can't wait to get it in hand. This game has proved a lot of fun.

Scarab Sages

Kicker wrote:

To summarize my thoughts:

Yes, reprinted cards should be made available/sold.
Yes, a pdf would be handy.
No, I don't think a POD is the best answer.
Yes, exploit me.

I've had good experiences with Paizo thus far and look forward to supporting them in the future. I hope this has helped.

My thoughts precisely. Maintain your high standards, Paizo, and don't view Print on Demand as an acceptable option.


h4ppy wrote:
MajorHavok wrote:
We had printed our own modified cards (ugly). But my group has set PACG aside until we can buy updated cards and print out an updated rule book.

That's quite extreme - there are not that many cards which are broken and the rules are fairly simple once you've got your head around a couple of key concepts (which are mainly laid out in the FAQ and Mike's recently stickied post).

There's also the Turn Sequence breakdown which people have found useful:
http://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/95118/turn-sequence-breakdown

The updated cards would be great to have, but I don't think it's so bad as-is that you need to shelve the game!

My group has plenty of games going, so really we put it down a few weeks ago in the middle of all of the forum activity. And once we knew new cards were coming and a rules refresh was on the way, why pick it back up now?

Loved one of the turn sequence docs on BGG - it will surely have a spot on the table when we get back to PACG. But the game really got off on the wrong foot for our group and everyone is in agreement here not to revisit it until the dust is settled (done) and we have new cards and rulebook in hand (waiting).

No biggy.
Matt

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Scribbling Rambler wrote:
Dragnmoon wrote:


As I mentioned above I would prefer a later option of slipping reprints of the errataed cards into an expansion pack, similar to what Fantasy Flight Games does.

Dragnmoon, you should check out Vic's original post. Unfortunately, the only way corrected cards are going to get printed is thru POD, which will not match the size exactly.

So it's an option of pdf, slightly differently sized cards, both, or none.
And an option of a small set of the cards with errors, or a bigger set which also includes cards with clarifications.

Paizo's issue with printing an errata cards was that they are not enough of them to make it economically feasible . So the option of adding them to a future expansion pack print run both fixes that and has them printed on the same stock.

It is the perfect solution if players are willing to wait a year out for an expansion pack since the expansion packs are already printed a year out.

POD is a terrible solution and due to the obvious problems dealing with different stock which can cause problems with the game. I am surprised they are even giving it as an option.

The only issue with my idea is that we have to wait longer. But I would much rather wait longer to have it done right then get inferior POD option which I will not use.


I will pay $8 for all fixes, major and minor. PDF will appeal to others (especially if they sleeve), so also worth doing...just not for me (I don't sleeve this game).

I would rather buy print-on-demand. I can part with ~$8 (plus shipping) to get *all* the corrected cards in the appropriate quantity.

Having maximum clarity in the cards makes it much easier for new players, and since this is a co-op game, and not terribly difficult to grasp, I suspect I will play with many different people.


Dragnmoon wrote:
POD is a terrible solution and due to the obvious problems dealing with different stock which can cause problems with the game. I am surprised they are even giving it as an option.

How many people on this thread have said "I would buy one" despite knowing it would be noticeably different? That is why they are considering, it, because there are people who do want it. It may not be a perfect solution that works for everyone, but for people that sleeve their cards anyway (myself included) then it's a non-issue, Even if you don't, it's not going to ruin the game if you know that the next card is one of the updated cards.

Dragnmoon wrote:
The only issue with my idea is that we have to wait longer. But I would much rather wait longer to have it done right then get inferior POD option which I will not use.

Not everyone wants to wait a year. In fact, I would find that completely unacceptable if that were the only option given to us because people keep saying its a terrible idea.

The only issue with the POD option is that they are slightly smaller than the others. That's 1 to 1; looks like a tie.

The nice thing about options is that that they are optional. If you don't like the POD solution, don't buy it; if you don't like the PDF option, don't download it. I plan to do both, as do many others.

However, if in a year's time we get the updated cards in a future expansion, I would totally throw out (well, remove from play) my POD copies when I get them. But I (and others) want something sooner, and would be happy with the POD solution.


I'd be happy with either. I could print the PDF on some self adhesive paper and stick it right to the current card. I'd also be willing to pay 8$ for the real deal.

Thanks for the great work, love the game.

Dark Archive

Dragnmoon wrote:
Scribbling Rambler wrote:
Dragnmoon wrote:


As I mentioned above I would prefer a later option of slipping reprints of the errataed cards into an expansion pack, similar to what Fantasy Flight Games does.

Dragnmoon, you should check out Vic's original post. Unfortunately, the only way corrected cards are going to get printed is thru POD, which will not match the size exactly.

So it's an option of pdf, slightly differently sized cards, both, or none.
And an option of a small set of the cards with errors, or a bigger set which also includes cards with clarifications.

Paizo's issue with printing an errata cards was that they are not enough of them to make it economically feasible . So the option of adding them to a future expansion pack print run both fixes that and has them printed on the same stock.

It is the perfect solution if players are willing to wait a year out for an expansion pack since the expansion packs are already printed a year out.

POD is a terrible solution and due to the obvious problems dealing with different stock which can cause problems with the game. I am surprised they are even giving it as an option.

The only issue with my idea is that we have to wait longer. But I would much rather wait longer to have it done right then get inferior POD option which I will not use.

Problem is, I don't think there are slated to be any future expansion packs, I thought the model was based on this version of the game running for a year then a second base-set based on another adventure path for the following year, and it's not entirely appropriate to have errata cards for a previous version of the game in a new base set, imho.


Actually, it might be a good plan from a marketing point of view to include the errata cards in the new AP base set...

It's both great customer service for loyal fans (who then get updated cards for their existing AP1 sets) and an incentive for new players to but into the old AP as well as the new one.

One for Paizo to stick in their return-on-investment calculator and have a think about, perhaps? ;)

Silver Crusade

h4ppy wrote:

Actually, it might be a good plan from a marketing point of view to include the errata cards in the new AP base set...

It's both great customer service for loyal fans (who then get updated cards for their existing AP1 sets) and an incentive for new players to but into the old AP as well as the new one.

One for Paizo to stick in their return-on-investment calculator and have a think about, perhaps? ;)

I was actually thinking the same thing.


If adding the corrected cards into the next release is out of the question, then I'd be all for an erratta deck/$8.00 deck. But the PDF should still be made available for quick reference until you can get your replacements.


h4ppy wrote:

Actually, it might be a good plan from a marketing point of view to include the errata cards in the new AP base set...

It's both great customer service for loyal fans (who then get updated cards for their existing AP1 sets) and an incentive for new players to but into the old AP as well as the new one.

One for Paizo to stick in their return-on-investment calculator and have a think about, perhaps? ;)

This is a fantastic idea! I think Paizo should post an official list of errata cards somewhere so fans can make sure all of errors are corrected before attempting this feat, just to be absolutely sure *all* the cards and their appropriate number are accounted for ;)


Yes, this is what FFG did with Arkham Horror: they included corrected cards in the following expansion (Dunwich Horror). Not only it rewards loyalty, but also it does not cost an arm to get for non-US based customers.


The problem with that is the new base set will only be released after all the AP packs are released which looks to be July onwards next year. Which is quite a long time to spend without errata. And quite possibly when that is launched we won't be playing the RotRL much anyway.


Not be playing RotL? Blasphemer! Stone him!


Would you be playin RoTRL 24/7 and not the NEW playset, complete with its own errata instead?


glenn3e wrote:
The problem with that is the new base set will only be released after all the AP packs are released which looks to be July onwards next year. Which is quite a long time to spend without errata. And quite possibly when that is launched we won't be playing the RotRL much anyway.

Right. Well, they could provide both: an expensive (in term of P&P) print-on-demand set for people in a hurry, and still reward loyal customers everywhere on the planet, who will buy a second set. This would also solve the problem of print-on-demand cards that would be slightly bigger as stated before (which in my opinion is a bit worrying).

Dark Archive

As for would I buy a PoD errata deck, I may consider it once they release a finished version (i.e. will all errata from B to 6) I'm not going to buy a new set from DriveThruRPG for each step in the AP when I'll have to get it shipped to the UK.
To be hones there's no issues that I can't keep in my mind when playing anyway.


I would pay $8 for updated cards.


i'm a little late, but i would happily pay $8 for updated cards. $2 for a couple or $8 for all? seems like a no-brainer. i'll just skip my lattes that week. :)


Any estimate yet for either an updated rule book or the POD cards?


Also a little late.

I think that the PDF would be an excellent place to start but not to make the DriveThru option available until much later down the line when we are reasonably sure that all changes have been made. At that time, I would prefer to have the full run of corrections made available please. (estimated $8 plus shipping, I would but that run once I was sure the updates were complete.)

I realize this would mean waiting for maybe a year before the cards became available for purchase, however I think it could save everyone involved a lot of time and hassle and in some cases, money. Especially if people knew that the DriveThru cards would be becoming available around XX Date.

That would allow folk to print the cards for home use if so desired and keep them from having to buy 10 DriveThru sets as we continue to see changes/clarifications. Even though the PDF would require 3 people to update (in batches, maybe once every month or two.) I would still think that the PDF would be easier to update than the print runs since people would need to buy another print run from DriveThru to return to the current standard. (As a side note, people could print the sheets just for reference to have the changes on hand even if just black and white if desired... giving people several options.)

Regardless of what you decide to offer, I appreciate that Paizo is taking the time and effort to correct/clarify these concerns. I also appreciate that everyone is allowed a "vote" so to speak. Thank you.

Pathfinder Adventure Card Game Designer

We're getting pretty close on the text for the PDF of the adjusted rulebook. You may have noticed some very big text blocks going into the FAQ, which are essentially what we're trying to drill down on for the adjusted rulebook.


I'd be happy with a POD option. And as a sleever, it would add a bonus: Cards replaced by the new errata ones would still be used.

I will insert custom cards in the front of them. With the official backs, they would be indistinguishable in the stack: villains, henchmen, monsters, etc.

Win win.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

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I'm now working with DriveThru on color-matching the existing card backs. They've printed a number of color samples which are currently in transit to me. This is the first step in an iterative process that will take a while.


Just to add another vote: I'd print the PDFs to place in my sleeves with the original card. Then pay for corrected reprints.


Mark De Lorenzo wrote:
Just to add another vote: I'd print the PDFs to place in my sleeves with the original card. Then pay for corrected reprints.

I am in this boat with PDFs first ... I would do the POD after AP 6 has been thoroughly checked for errors , omissions and clarifications and then buy it for my archive copy ... because by then I would be on base set #2 :) -- and probably occasionally whip this out for a marathon game weekend with friends.


Vic Wertz wrote:
I'm now working with DriveThru on color-matching the existing card backs. They've printed a number of color samples which are currently in transit to me. This is the first step in an iterative process that will take a while.

Here's hoping that this pans out as a viable option. :)


Vic Wertz wrote:
I'm now working with DriveThru on color-matching the existing card backs. They've printed a number of color samples which are currently in transit to me. This is the first step in an iterative process that will take a while.

There are already some colour matching issues on the current cards, at least on the fronts. I haven't seen any noticeable differences among card backs...yet...in colour at least. However, some cards came with a wrinkle or two, and one has a white spot on the back (which I now know marks a be Blessing Of Calistria ;-).

Anyway, point is, I still enjoy the game. I just ignore the few minor issues I've found in my set. And I could just as easily ignore what will probably be barely perceptible colour issues in Print-On-Demand errata cards, so....I hope the colour matching quest goes well, but please know that I for one can deal with it if it isn't 100% accurate. I'm sure many others will deal with it too.


For what it is worth, I would rather have PoD versions.


Vic Wertz wrote:
I'm now working with DriveThru on color-matching the existing card backs. They've printed a number of color samples which are currently in transit to me. This is the first step in an iterative process that will take a while.

Thanks for going through all of this, Vic. I just wish there was a way to match the size of the existing cards. You are pretty much forced to play with card sleeves, otherwise you'll be able to pick out the new cards.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

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While I did put the size issue out there because I think it's important for people to know going in, I honestly think it will make *very* little difference in practice. We're talking about half a millimeter here. If you square up a stack of cards and closely examine it, then yes, you can pick them out... but I don't think most people square up every stack in play perfectly; at least, when I stack cards, it's not uncommon for some cards to be more than a millimeter from square, meaning you won't be able to spot the size difference unless you're really *trying* to.

Liberty's Edge

Vic Wertz wrote:
...you won't be able to spot the size difference unless you're really *trying* to.

^

^
^
Friggin' cheaters!


I would pay $8 for the cards (or more..)..

As far as the slight size difference, not a big deal. No one I know is actually going to cheat and ruin the experience..


I sleeve, so there's no difference for me if the POD cards are slightly off. ^_^

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