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Spring-Loaded Wrist Sheath


Pathfinder Society® General Discussion

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Grand Lodge **

2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

Are there currently any hard and fast rules for how these function in PFS? What you can or cannot put in them? There's no reason one couldn't procure potion bottles that are longer than they are thick to slip under your cloak or something similar. Anything of a shape to be attached to your arm seems legal. Is there any rule I'm unaware of to put a potion into your hand as a swift?

Shadow Lodge **

Kurthnaga wrote:
Are there currently any hard and fast rules for how these function in PFS?

Nope. Like anything else, if it runs into table variance don't base your build on it.

Quote:
What you can or cannot put in them? There's no reason one couldn't procure potion bottles that are longer than they are thick to slip under your cloak or something similar. Anything of a shape to be attached to your arm seems legal.

And then some, given that arrows were mentioned as an option...

Quote:
Is there any rule I'm unaware of to put a potion into your hand as a swift?

An alchemists vestigial limb already holding the potion

A tiefling with a prehensile tail already holding the potion
having your familiar fetch it for you

Grand Lodge **

For reference, this is for my Paladin to attempt to buff in one round as opposed to two, as I took additional traits for Accelerated Drinker and Dangerously Curious. This isn't a core part of my build, it's just helpful. He still does good damage unbuffed. Thanks for the quick answers BNW, I see no reason why a DM would disallow this but I'll talk it over with them before play.

Cheliax ***** Owner - Enchanted Grounds

I think you'll probably get a few cock-eyed looks when you announce a use of the wrist sheath to get a potion. Don't underestimate the fact that some GMs may feel like you're trying to "get away with" something, and those guys will end up exercising their veto power.

I might suggest you look at it this way: permissive vs non-permissive. In effect, you're saying that because there isn't a rule against it then it should be allowed to have a slender potion bottle. But there is no rule saying I can't wear a magic ring on, say, my toe, so shouldn't I be able to do that?

I am probably not articulate enough to say this properly, but here goes: the game doesn't have rules saying "you can't," thereby granting you permission to do everything your heart desires. It instead has rules saying "you can," thereby denying you the ability to do those things it does not mention (like wear a ring on your toe).

Essentially, that permission vs non-permission is decided by your GM when there is room for interpretation. What one guy might allow, another guy might get very confrontational about. If you're okay with the confrontation (and, hopefully, with immediately ceding the argument to that guy) then give it a whirl and see what happens. Just don't be disappointed when you're told, "Um, no."

***

I've tried shoving a metamagic rod in one of my sheathes, and so far most of my gms have been ok with it. I agree it comes down to the gm, and since the wording on the wrist sheath is (bold emphasis)

WRIST SHEATH wrote:
This is a sheath designed to be strapped to your forearm and hidden under a long sleeve. The sheath can hold one forearm-length item, such as a dagger, dart, or wand, or up to five arrows or crossbow bolts. As a move action, you can bend your wrist to cause some or all of these items to drop into your hand (provoking attacks of opportunity as normal). You have a +2 bonus on Sleight of Hand checks made to oppose the Perception check of someone observing or frisking you to determine items in the sheath. You can only wear one wrist sheath per arm.

I'd say push "one forearm-length item" as far as you can rationalize. And be ready for a negative response, like when I tried shoving a pistol into one.

(Also I realize I quoted the regular version, but the spring loaded variety only qualifies the actions necessary to activate and reload the sheath.)

Grand Lodge **

Like I said, I'm going to ask before play. I don't expect everyone to allow it. But the wrist sheath specifies basically anything you could fit on your wrists comfortably. I wont be surprised if I get weird looks, but I don't think this necessarily breaks anything.

Cheliax *

Pommel, Hollow

Source Adventurer's Armory

Depending on the weapon, a hollow pommel may hold something as large as a flask or as small as a rolled piece of paper. Detecting a hollow pommel is a DC 15 Perception check.

put potion in hollow pommel dagger.

load dagger in sheath

now potion gets into hand.

and/or have it on your main weapon

Grand Lodge **

I have that option, but was wondering wouldn't getting it out of the pommel being the "retrieve a stored item" action? Which is a move. That one seemed even more chancey to me than loading potions.

Shadow Lodge ***

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

So we need an item that lets you replace the normal screw top for the hidden compartment with a sippy cup lid...

Taldor *****

1 person marked this as a favorite.
zefig wrote:
So we need an item that lets you replace the normal screw top for the hidden compartment with a sippy cup lid...

Better yet, go with the beer can hat with the two straws. Yeah, that should work.

Andoran ***** Venture-Lieutenant, California—Fresno aka Sarta

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Consider the sipping jacket from Ultimate Equipment.

I'm personally a jerk. I only allow weapon-like objects to be put in spring-loaded wrist sheaths. So, if you can't draw them while moving, you can't put them in the wrist sheath.

Count on table variation.

Grand Lodge **** Venture-Captain, Netherlands—Leiden

Todd Lower wrote:
Better yet, go with the beer can hat with the two straws. Yeah, that should work.

Sounds like Superstar material to me: Helmet of Unquenchable Thirst

Shadow Lodge ***

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
Auke Teeninga wrote:
Todd Lower wrote:
Better yet, go with the beer can hat with the two straws. Yeah, that should work.
Sounds like Superstar material to me: Helmet of Unquenchable Thirst

It'll certainly sell better than Uncle Jimbo's Hidden Dagger Nipple

Osirion ****

Paizo Superscriber
Kurthnaga wrote:
Are there currently any hard and fast rules for how these function in PFS? What you can or cannot put in them? There's no reason one couldn't procure potion bottles that are longer than they are thick to slip under your cloak or something similar. Anything of a shape to be attached to your arm seems legal. Is there any rule I'm unaware of to put a potion into your hand as a swift?

There isn't any way to obtain strangely sized objects (like long thin potion bottles) in PFS, because you can't craft mundane objects that are not already in a book.

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Kurthnaga wrote:
For reference, this is for my Paladin to attempt to buff in one round as opposed to two, as I took additional traits for Accelerated Drinker and Dangerously Curious. This isn't a core part of my build, it's just helpful. He still does good damage unbuffed. Thanks for the quick answers BNW, I see no reason why a DM would disallow this but I'll talk it over with them before play.

This makes it sound like you're wanting to retrieve a potion (swift action), drink it (move action), then, I dunno, cast a buff spell for your standard?

If so, that doesn't work. You can only apply Accelerated Drinker to potions that were already in your hand at the start of your turn.

Cheliax ***** Owner - Enchanted Grounds

Jiggy wrote:
Kurthnaga wrote:
For reference, this is for my Paladin to attempt to buff in one round as opposed to two, as I took additional traits for Accelerated Drinker and Dangerously Curious. This isn't a core part of my build, it's just helpful. He still does good damage unbuffed. Thanks for the quick answers BNW, I see no reason why a DM would disallow this but I'll talk it over with them before play.

This makes it sound like you're wanting to retrieve a potion (swift action), drink it (move action), then, I dunno, cast a buff spell for your standard?

If so, that doesn't work. You can only apply Accelerated Drinker to potions that were already in your hand at the start of your turn.

Nah. He wants to start the turn with the potion in hand, use a move action to quaff it, swift action to get the next potion, and use his standard action to quaff that.

And make his GM yearn for the AD&D "admixture" rules. (-;

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Ah, I see. In that case, you're better off working towards not needing two buffs per fight. ;)

Silver Crusade **

Jiggy wrote:
Kurthnaga wrote:
For reference, this is for my Paladin to attempt to buff in one round as opposed to two, as I took additional traits for Accelerated Drinker and Dangerously Curious. This isn't a core part of my build, it's just helpful. He still does good damage unbuffed. Thanks for the quick answers BNW, I see no reason why a DM would disallow this but I'll talk it over with them before play.

This makes it sound like you're wanting to retrieve a potion (swift action), drink it (move action), then, I dunno, cast a buff spell for your standard?

If so, that doesn't work. You can only apply Accelerated Drinker to potions that were already in your hand at the start of your turn.

Which brings up the obvious suggestion: Just walk around with a potion always in hand. No swift action needed to get it there if it's already there.

Andoran *

Kurthnaga wrote:
For reference, this is for my Paladin to attempt to buff in one round as opposed to two, as I took additional traits for Accelerated Drinker and Dangerously Curious. This isn't a core part of my build, it's just helpful. He still does good damage unbuffed. Thanks for the quick answers BNW, I see no reason why a DM would disallow this but I'll talk it over with them before play.

A Cheliax palidin.... now thats odd, but ok.

Cheliax ***** Owner - Enchanted Grounds

neferphras wrote:
Kurthnaga wrote:
For reference, this is for my Paladin to attempt to buff in one round as opposed to two, as I took additional traits for Accelerated Drinker and Dangerously Curious. This isn't a core part of my build, it's just helpful. He still does good damage unbuffed. Thanks for the quick answers BNW, I see no reason why a DM would disallow this but I'll talk it over with them before play.
A Cheliax palidin.... now thats odd, but ok.

The trait may be in the Cheliax Player Companion book, but you don't have to be Chelaxian to take it.


Will Johnson wrote:
I'm personally a jerk. I only allow weapon-like objects to be put in spring-loaded wrist sheaths. So, if you can't draw them while moving, you can't put them in the wrist sheath.

Why would you only allow weapon like objects? The only thing the wrist sheath specifies is that it should be forearm length, nothing about specifying that it has to be a weapon.(And why would you call yourself a jerk?)

James Risner wrote:
There isn't any way to obtain strangely sized objects (like long thin potion bottles) in PFS, because you can't craft mundane objects that are not already in a book.

Why is that a strangely sized item? Do potions only come in one shape and size normally? What if the long thin kind was the normal kind?

Osirion ****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Tales Subscriber

You do have to have your regional affinity set to the country of Cheliax (essentially lived there for long period of time).

Silver Crusade **

neferphras wrote:
Kurthnaga wrote:
For reference, this is for my Paladin to attempt to buff in one round as opposed to two, as I took additional traits for Accelerated Drinker and Dangerously Curious. This isn't a core part of my build, it's just helpful. He still does good damage unbuffed. Thanks for the quick answers BNW, I see no reason why a DM would disallow this but I'll talk it over with them before play.
A Cheliax palidin.... now thats odd, but ok.

I have a friend with a Chelaxian paladin of Aroden who went Hellknight prestige class. She got to level 13 before the rules changed to require a level deity.

Cheliax ***** Owner - Enchanted Grounds

Majuba wrote:
You do have to have your regional affinity set to the country of Cheliax (essentially lived there for long period of time).

Is regional affinity still a requirement? I thought I remembered reading somewhere that this little idea had been removed from the rules for traits, in general.

Edit: Not that I can find that, now, so it must be a false memory...

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

MrSin wrote:
Do potions only come in one shape and size normally? What if the long thin kind was the normal kind?
Core Rulebook, Magic Items chapter, Potions, Physical Description wrote:
The stoppered container is usually no more than 1 inch wide and 2 inches high.


Jiggy wrote:
MrSin wrote:
Do potions only come in one shape and size normally? What if the long thin kind was the normal kind?
Core Rulebook, Magic Items chapter, Potions, Physical Description wrote:
The stoppered container is usually no more than 1 inch wide and 2 inches high.

Oh hey, It is long and thin! I thought they'd be bigger to be honest. I wonder who runs and polices that standard now though...

Cheliax ***** Owner - Enchanted Grounds

Jiggy wrote:
Core Rulebook, Magic Items chapter, Potions, Physical Description wrote:
The stoppered container is usually no more than 1 inch wide and 2 inches high.

Which always makes me laugh when I see the huge dragon's tactics listed as, "If he goes below xx hit points, he retreats to his lair and begins drinking healing potions."

Qadira ***** RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Fromper wrote:
I have a friend with a Chelaxian paladin of Aroden who went Hellknight prestige class. She got to level 13 before the rules changed to require a level deity.

Fromper, as the player of a Chelaxian paladin of Torag / Hellknight, I'm wondering what rule change you're referencing.

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

MrSin wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
MrSin wrote:
Do potions only come in one shape and size normally? What if the long thin kind was the normal kind?
Core Rulebook, Magic Items chapter, Potions, Physical Description wrote:
The stoppered container is usually no more than 1 inch wide and 2 inches high.
Oh hey, It is long and thin! I thought they'd be bigger to be honest. I wonder who runs and polices that standard now though...

I think a lot of people mistakenly think potion vials and splash flasks are (approximately) the same thing.

As for whether it works with the wrist sheath... Well, it seems to be quite a bit smaller than most legal items for the sheath, so you might run into issues there. I thought maybe it would be similar to a dart, but... Well, let's just say that researching that made my brain hurt. You think fitting arrows in there is bad? Yikes.

Andoran ***** Venture-Lieutenant, California—Fresno aka Sarta

MrSin wrote:
Why would you only allow weapon like objects? The only thing the wrist sheath specifies is that it should be forearm length, nothing about specifying that it has to be a weapon.(And why would you call yourself a jerk?)

It is a weapon sheath, so designed to hold weapons. The game has created a distinction between weapon-like and non-weapon-like items. Weapon-like items are easy to draw. They can be drawn as part of movement, rather than requiring a separate action. The items specifically described in the write up of Wrist Sheath are all weapon-like.

I was hoping they would reprint the spring-loaded wrist sheath in UE. It would be nice to see further clarification. However, that seems unlikely.

I called myself a jerk because many folks want to store scrolls of Breath of Life in their sheaths, which I don't allow. Gloves of Storing are an extra 9,995 gold.

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Will Johnson wrote:
It is a weapon sheath, so designed to hold weapons.

According to what? Are you just going by the example items listed, or is there something else I missed?

Quote:
I was hoping they would reprint the spring-loaded wrist sheath in UE. It would be nice to see further clarification. However, that seems unlikely.

Actually, UE did reprint the non-springy version that the springy version references (and the non-springy version is where it says what they can hold anyway). Though I believe it uses the same text as the final errata to the AA version, so maybe that's not what you were looking for...?

Cheliax *

but a hollow pummel lets you get around these issues

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

As others have said, expect variation. FWIW, at my table you can use it for exactly, a "dagger, dart, or wand, or up to five arrows or crossbow bolts."

Cheliax ***** Owner - Enchanted Grounds

Kyle Baird wrote:
FWIW, at my table you can use it for exactly, a "dagger, dart, or wand, or up to five arrows or crossbow bolts."

Hey, look! Permissive vs. non-permissive. (-:

Andoran ** RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

Will Johnson wrote:

Consider the sipping jacket from Ultimate Equipment.

I'm personally a jerk. I only allow weapon-like objects to be put in spring-loaded wrist sheaths. So, if you can't draw them while moving, you can't put them in the wrist sheath.

Count on table variation.

The SLWS explicitly calls out wands as allowable. Wands are not weapon-like object that can be drawn while moving.

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Charlie Bell wrote:
Wands are not weapon-like object that can be drawn while moving.
Core Rulebook, Combat chapter, Actions in Combat, Draw or Sheathe a Weapon wrote:
This action also applies to weapon-like objects carried in easy reach, such as wands.

Silver Crusade **

Chris Mortika wrote:
Fromper wrote:
I have a friend with a Chelaxian paladin of Aroden who went Hellknight prestige class. She got to level 13 before the rules changed to require a level deity.
Fromper, as the player of a Chelaxian paladin of Torag / Hellknight, I'm wondering what rule change you're referencing.

Sorry, typed too fast and typoed it. I meant to say that the rule changed to require a legal deity. My friend's character worshiped Aroden, which is no longer legal for a divine PC in Society play.

Silver Crusade **

Wands are pretty much my only reason for owning a spring loaded wrist sheath. Every PC I have who can cast CLW, or even make a decent UMD attempt at it, has a spring loaded sheath for their CLW wand.

Silver Crusade *

Most GMs will allow scrolls, especially if they are told the scroll in question is Breath of Life and not something to get over on the NPCs. I'll allow whatever scroll, because I don't care what happens to the NPCs. ;)If the PCs want to the pay the cash money for scrolls, more power to them.

Shadow Lodge **

Drogon wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Core Rulebook, Magic Items chapter, Potions, Physical Description wrote:
The stoppered container is usually no more than 1 inch wide and 2 inches high.
Which always makes me laugh when I see the huge dragon's tactics listed as, "If he goes below xx hit points, he retreats to his lair and begins drinking healing potions."

Stick out forked tongue.

Grab potion

Pull potion into mouth

Chew glass

Drink potion.

This is what you get for being raised by a pretty blond human instead of other dragons...

Shadow Lodge **

I was more inclined to say no to using this for a potion until i saw "pound of ammunition". I mean if this thing can shoot out everything from a quiver of arrows to a sling bullet a bottle of channelle number 5 should be cake.

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

BigNorseWolf wrote:
I was more inclined to say no to using this for a potion until i saw "pound of ammunition". I mean if this thing can shoot out everything from a quiver of arrows to a sling bullet a bottle of channelle number 5 should be cake.

Sounds like you're using the old text. Get the latest AA errata, or check the UE entry.

***** Venture-Lieutenant, Georgia—Atlanta aka CRobledo

Angrish wrote:
I've tried shoving a metamagic rod in one of my sheathes, and so far most of my gms have been ok with it.
PRD wrote:
Rods weigh approximately 5 pounds. They range from 2 feet to 3 feet long and are usually made of iron or some other metal.

Your forearm is 2-3 feet long?!

Shadow Lodge **

CRobledo wrote:
Angrish wrote:
I've tried shoving a metamagic rod in one of my sheathes, and so far most of my gms have been ok with it.
PRD wrote:
Rods weigh approximately 5 pounds. They range from 2 feet to 3 feet long and are usually made of iron or some other metal.
Your forearm is 2-3 feet long?!

It also lists arrows, which are the same length.

I don't like items like this or the weapon cords that mess up action economy. (yo yo, yo yo gun!)

Then again, adventurers seem to pull things out of hammerspace even before they get haversacks. How many characters have you seen with stowed polearms?

Andoran ** RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

Jiggy wrote:
Charlie Bell wrote:
Wands are not weapon-like object that can be drawn while moving.
Core Rulebook, Combat chapter, Actions in Combat, Draw or Sheathe a Weapon wrote:
This action also applies to weapon-like objects carried in easy reach, such as wands.

WHOA /keanuface

Cheliax ***** Owner - Enchanted Grounds

BigNorseWolf wrote:
CRobledo wrote:
Angrish wrote:
I've tried shoving a metamagic rod in one of my sheathes, and so far most of my gms have been ok with it.
PRD wrote:
Rods weigh approximately 5 pounds. They range from 2 feet to 3 feet long and are usually made of iron or some other metal.
Your forearm is 2-3 feet long?!

It also lists arrows, which are the same length.

I don't like items like this or the weapon cords that mess up action economy. (yo yo, yo yo gun!)

Then again, adventurers seem to pull things out of hammerspace even before they get haversacks. How many characters have you seen with stowed polearms?

Weapon cords break my verisimilitude in a big way. I'd be willing to bet anything that the last thing any real-world weapon master would want would be to have his weapon tied to his arm by a string. I'd think there are far too many in-combat drawbacks to it.

Weapon cords are for lances. You tie them to your saddle. That I'm okay with.

Sadly (for me) this is once again a permissive vs non-permissive issue...

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Drogon wrote:
Weapon cords break my verisimilitude in a big way.

Tell me about it. Heck, even the item's description itself is a problem: first it says it's 2ft long, but then allows for the weapon to be in an adjacent (5ft) square. GWAAARRGH!!

Andoran ** RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

Drogon wrote:

Weapon cords break my verisimilitude in a big way. I'd be willing to bet anything that the last thing any real-world weapon master would want would be to have his weapon tied to his arm by a string. I'd think there are far too many in-combat drawbacks to it.

Weapon cords are for lances. You tie them to your saddle. That I'm okay with.

Sadly (for me) this is once again a permissive vs non-permissive issue...

off-topic:
If weapon cords actually provided an advantage in reloading, everybody would have been using them for that purpose for the last 300 years. It would be better to just make sheathing a weapon a free action, in which case you could just holster that pistol to load the other one. We do actually use weapon cords for sidearms, but it's not so you can just drop it and pick it up easier. It's damn awkward to retrieve a 4-lb. sidearm dangling at the end of a springy cord. In fact, it's much easier to holster or unholster a sidearm than it is to recover one from the end of a weapon cord. A cord is just there to prevent you from losing it in case you drop it or it falls out of the holster.

I could see how a corded lance could really trip up a horse, unless the cord's 5-10 feet long so it trails far behind.

Qadira

Angrish wrote:
I've tried shoving a metamagic rod in one of my sheathes, and so far most of my gms have been ok with it. I agree it comes down to the gm, and since the wording on the wrist sheath is (bold emphasis)
WRIST SHEATH wrote:
This is a sheath designed to be strapped to your forearm and hidden under a long sleeve. The sheath can hold one forearm-length item, such as a dagger, dart, or wand, or up to five arrows or crossbow bolts. As a move action, you can bend your wrist to cause some or all of these items to drop into your hand (provoking attacks of opportunity as normal). You have a +2 bonus on Sleight of Hand checks made to oppose the Perception check of someone observing or frisking you to determine items in the sheath. You can only wear one wrist sheath per arm.

I'd say push "one forearm-length item" as far as you can rationalize. And be ready for a negative response, like when I tried shoving a pistol into one.

(Also I realize I quoted the regular version, but the spring loaded variety only qualifies the actions necessary to activate and reload the sheath.)

See I would be one to not allow magical rods. My reasoning is that a rod is about as long as a mace (especially since several are actually used as maces) and a mace is definitely longer than a forearm. Also I am surprised to see arrows mentioned in there...my forearm, from wrist to elbow, is only 11 inches long. Now granted I am an average 5'8" guy but show me an arrow that length that can be used on a shortbow or longbow or even one that would be under 15" and I would be mor inclined to believe this would work.

Qadira

Drogon wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Core Rulebook, Magic Items chapter, Potions, Physical Description wrote:
The stoppered container is usually no more than 1 inch wide and 2 inches high.
Which always makes me laugh when I see the huge dragon's tactics listed as, "If he goes below xx hit points, he retreats to his lair and begins drinking healing potions."

I always just see that as he crunches up the potion. Heck if he can chomp on a fighter in full plate he certainly can crack up a lil' bitty potion bottle with no problem.....it's like dragon aspirin.

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