Kurthnaga |
2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Are there currently any hard and fast rules for how these function in PFS? What you can or cannot put in them? There's no reason one couldn't procure potion bottles that are longer than they are thick to slip under your cloak or something similar. Anything of a shape to be attached to your arm seems legal. Is there any rule I'm unaware of to put a potion into your hand as a swift?
BigNorseWolf |
Are there currently any hard and fast rules for how these function in PFS?
Nope. Like anything else, if it runs into table variance don't base your build on it.
What you can or cannot put in them? There's no reason one couldn't procure potion bottles that are longer than they are thick to slip under your cloak or something similar. Anything of a shape to be attached to your arm seems legal.
And then some, given that arrows were mentioned as an option...
Is there any rule I'm unaware of to put a potion into your hand as a swift?
An alchemists vestigial limb already holding the potion
A tiefling with a prehensile tail already holding the potionhaving your familiar fetch it for you
Kurthnaga |
For reference, this is for my Paladin to attempt to buff in one round as opposed to two, as I took additional traits for Accelerated Drinker and Dangerously Curious. This isn't a core part of my build, it's just helpful. He still does good damage unbuffed. Thanks for the quick answers BNW, I see no reason why a DM would disallow this but I'll talk it over with them before play.
Drogon Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds |
I think you'll probably get a few cock-eyed looks when you announce a use of the wrist sheath to get a potion. Don't underestimate the fact that some GMs may feel like you're trying to "get away with" something, and those guys will end up exercising their veto power.
I might suggest you look at it this way: permissive vs non-permissive. In effect, you're saying that because there isn't a rule against it then it should be allowed to have a slender potion bottle. But there is no rule saying I can't wear a magic ring on, say, my toe, so shouldn't I be able to do that?
I am probably not articulate enough to say this properly, but here goes: the game doesn't have rules saying "you can't," thereby granting you permission to do everything your heart desires. It instead has rules saying "you can," thereby denying you the ability to do those things it does not mention (like wear a ring on your toe).
Essentially, that permission vs non-permission is decided by your GM when there is room for interpretation. What one guy might allow, another guy might get very confrontational about. If you're okay with the confrontation (and, hopefully, with immediately ceding the argument to that guy) then give it a whirl and see what happens. Just don't be disappointed when you're told, "Um, no."
Angrish |
I've tried shoving a metamagic rod in one of my sheathes, and so far most of my gms have been ok with it. I agree it comes down to the gm, and since the wording on the wrist sheath is (bold emphasis)
This is a sheath designed to be strapped to your forearm and hidden under a long sleeve. The sheath can hold one forearm-length item, such as a dagger, dart, or wand, or up to five arrows or crossbow bolts. As a move action, you can bend your wrist to cause some or all of these items to drop into your hand (provoking attacks of opportunity as normal). You have a +2 bonus on Sleight of Hand checks made to oppose the Perception check of someone observing or frisking you to determine items in the sheath. You can only wear one wrist sheath per arm.
I'd say push "one forearm-length item" as far as you can rationalize. And be ready for a negative response, like when I tried shoving a pistol into one.
(Also I realize I quoted the regular version, but the spring loaded variety only qualifies the actions necessary to activate and reload the sheath.)
Name Violation |
Pommel, Hollow
Source Adventurer's Armory
Depending on the weapon, a hollow pommel may hold something as large as a flask or as small as a rolled piece of paper. Detecting a hollow pommel is a DC 15 Perception check.
put potion in hollow pommel dagger.
load dagger in sheath
now potion gets into hand.
and/or have it on your main weapon
Auke Teeninga Regional Venture-Coordinator, Baltic |
James Risner Owner - D20 Hobbies |
Are there currently any hard and fast rules for how these function in PFS? What you can or cannot put in them? There's no reason one couldn't procure potion bottles that are longer than they are thick to slip under your cloak or something similar. Anything of a shape to be attached to your arm seems legal. Is there any rule I'm unaware of to put a potion into your hand as a swift?
There isn't any way to obtain strangely sized objects (like long thin potion bottles) in PFS, because you can't craft mundane objects that are not already in a book.
Jiggy RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
For reference, this is for my Paladin to attempt to buff in one round as opposed to two, as I took additional traits for Accelerated Drinker and Dangerously Curious. This isn't a core part of my build, it's just helpful. He still does good damage unbuffed. Thanks for the quick answers BNW, I see no reason why a DM would disallow this but I'll talk it over with them before play.
This makes it sound like you're wanting to retrieve a potion (swift action), drink it (move action), then, I dunno, cast a buff spell for your standard?
If so, that doesn't work. You can only apply Accelerated Drinker to potions that were already in your hand at the start of your turn.
Drogon Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds |
Kurthnaga wrote:For reference, this is for my Paladin to attempt to buff in one round as opposed to two, as I took additional traits for Accelerated Drinker and Dangerously Curious. This isn't a core part of my build, it's just helpful. He still does good damage unbuffed. Thanks for the quick answers BNW, I see no reason why a DM would disallow this but I'll talk it over with them before play.This makes it sound like you're wanting to retrieve a potion (swift action), drink it (move action), then, I dunno, cast a buff spell for your standard?
If so, that doesn't work. You can only apply Accelerated Drinker to potions that were already in your hand at the start of your turn.
Nah. He wants to start the turn with the potion in hand, use a move action to quaff it, swift action to get the next potion, and use his standard action to quaff that.
And make his GM yearn for the AD&D "admixture" rules. (-;
Jiggy RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
Fromper |
Kurthnaga wrote:For reference, this is for my Paladin to attempt to buff in one round as opposed to two, as I took additional traits for Accelerated Drinker and Dangerously Curious. This isn't a core part of my build, it's just helpful. He still does good damage unbuffed. Thanks for the quick answers BNW, I see no reason why a DM would disallow this but I'll talk it over with them before play.This makes it sound like you're wanting to retrieve a potion (swift action), drink it (move action), then, I dunno, cast a buff spell for your standard?
If so, that doesn't work. You can only apply Accelerated Drinker to potions that were already in your hand at the start of your turn.
Which brings up the obvious suggestion: Just walk around with a potion always in hand. No swift action needed to get it there if it's already there.
neferphras |
For reference, this is for my Paladin to attempt to buff in one round as opposed to two, as I took additional traits for Accelerated Drinker and Dangerously Curious. This isn't a core part of my build, it's just helpful. He still does good damage unbuffed. Thanks for the quick answers BNW, I see no reason why a DM would disallow this but I'll talk it over with them before play.
A Cheliax palidin.... now thats odd, but ok.
Drogon Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds |
Kurthnaga wrote:For reference, this is for my Paladin to attempt to buff in one round as opposed to two, as I took additional traits for Accelerated Drinker and Dangerously Curious. This isn't a core part of my build, it's just helpful. He still does good damage unbuffed. Thanks for the quick answers BNW, I see no reason why a DM would disallow this but I'll talk it over with them before play.A Cheliax palidin.... now thats odd, but ok.
The trait may be in the Cheliax Player Companion book, but you don't have to be Chelaxian to take it.
MrSin |
I'm personally a jerk. I only allow weapon-like objects to be put in spring-loaded wrist sheaths. So, if you can't draw them while moving, you can't put them in the wrist sheath.
Why would you only allow weapon like objects? The only thing the wrist sheath specifies is that it should be forearm length, nothing about specifying that it has to be a weapon.(And why would you call yourself a jerk?)
There isn't any way to obtain strangely sized objects (like long thin potion bottles) in PFS, because you can't craft mundane objects that are not already in a book.
Why is that a strangely sized item? Do potions only come in one shape and size normally? What if the long thin kind was the normal kind?
Fromper |
Kurthnaga wrote:For reference, this is for my Paladin to attempt to buff in one round as opposed to two, as I took additional traits for Accelerated Drinker and Dangerously Curious. This isn't a core part of my build, it's just helpful. He still does good damage unbuffed. Thanks for the quick answers BNW, I see no reason why a DM would disallow this but I'll talk it over with them before play.A Cheliax palidin.... now thats odd, but ok.
I have a friend with a Chelaxian paladin of Aroden who went Hellknight prestige class. She got to level 13 before the rules changed to require a level deity.
Drogon Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds |
You do have to have your regional affinity set to the country of Cheliax (essentially lived there for long period of time).
Is regional affinity still a requirement? I thought I remembered reading somewhere that this little idea had been removed from the rules for traits, in general.
Edit: Not that I can find that, now, so it must be a false memory...
Jiggy RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
MrSin |
MrSin wrote:Do potions only come in one shape and size normally? What if the long thin kind was the normal kind?Core Rulebook, Magic Items chapter, Potions, Physical Description wrote:The stoppered container is usually no more than 1 inch wide and 2 inches high.
Oh hey, It is long and thin! I thought they'd be bigger to be honest. I wonder who runs and polices that standard now though...
Drogon Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds |
Core Rulebook, Magic Items chapter, Potions, Physical Description wrote:The stoppered container is usually no more than 1 inch wide and 2 inches high.
Which always makes me laugh when I see the huge dragon's tactics listed as, "If he goes below xx hit points, he retreats to his lair and begins drinking healing potions."
Chris Mortika RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16 |
Jiggy RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
Jiggy wrote:Oh hey, It is long and thin! I thought they'd be bigger to be honest. I wonder who runs and polices that standard now though...MrSin wrote:Do potions only come in one shape and size normally? What if the long thin kind was the normal kind?Core Rulebook, Magic Items chapter, Potions, Physical Description wrote:The stoppered container is usually no more than 1 inch wide and 2 inches high.
I think a lot of people mistakenly think potion vials and splash flasks are (approximately) the same thing.
As for whether it works with the wrist sheath... Well, it seems to be quite a bit smaller than most legal items for the sheath, so you might run into issues there. I thought maybe it would be similar to a dart, but... Well, let's just say that researching that made my brain hurt. You think fitting arrows in there is bad? Yikes.
Sarta |
Why would you only allow weapon like objects? The only thing the wrist sheath specifies is that it should be forearm length, nothing about specifying that it has to be a weapon.(And why would you call yourself a jerk?)
It is a weapon sheath, so designed to hold weapons. The game has created a distinction between weapon-like and non-weapon-like items. Weapon-like items are easy to draw. They can be drawn as part of movement, rather than requiring a separate action. The items specifically described in the write up of Wrist Sheath are all weapon-like.
I was hoping they would reprint the spring-loaded wrist sheath in UE. It would be nice to see further clarification. However, that seems unlikely.
I called myself a jerk because many folks want to store scrolls of Breath of Life in their sheaths, which I don't allow. Gloves of Storing are an extra 9,995 gold.
Jiggy RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
It is a weapon sheath, so designed to hold weapons.
According to what? Are you just going by the example items listed, or is there something else I missed?
I was hoping they would reprint the spring-loaded wrist sheath in UE. It would be nice to see further clarification. However, that seems unlikely.
Actually, UE did reprint the non-springy version that the springy version references (and the non-springy version is where it says what they can hold anyway). Though I believe it uses the same text as the final errata to the AA version, so maybe that's not what you were looking for...?
Drogon Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds |
Charlie Bell RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16 |
Consider the sipping jacket from Ultimate Equipment.
I'm personally a jerk. I only allow weapon-like objects to be put in spring-loaded wrist sheaths. So, if you can't draw them while moving, you can't put them in the wrist sheath.
Count on table variation.
The SLWS explicitly calls out wands as allowable. Wands are not weapon-like object that can be drawn while moving.
Jiggy RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
Fromper |
Fromper wrote:I have a friend with a Chelaxian paladin of Aroden who went Hellknight prestige class. She got to level 13 before the rules changed to require a level deity.Fromper, as the player of a Chelaxian paladin of Torag / Hellknight, I'm wondering what rule change you're referencing.
Sorry, typed too fast and typoed it. I meant to say that the rule changed to require a legal deity. My friend's character worshiped Aroden, which is no longer legal for a divine PC in Society play.
BigNorseWolf |
Jiggy wrote:Which always makes me laugh when I see the huge dragon's tactics listed as, "If he goes below xx hit points, he retreats to his lair and begins drinking healing potions."Core Rulebook, Magic Items chapter, Potions, Physical Description wrote:The stoppered container is usually no more than 1 inch wide and 2 inches high.
Stick out forked tongue.
Grab potion
Pull potion into mouth
Chew glass
Drink potion.
This is what you get for being raised by a pretty blond human instead of other dragons...
Jiggy RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
I was more inclined to say no to using this for a potion until i saw "pound of ammunition". I mean if this thing can shoot out everything from a quiver of arrows to a sling bullet a bottle of channelle number 5 should be cake.
Sounds like you're using the old text. Get the latest AA errata, or check the UE entry.
BigNorseWolf |
Angrish wrote:I've tried shoving a metamagic rod in one of my sheathes, and so far most of my gms have been ok with it.PRD wrote:Rods weigh approximately 5 pounds. They range from 2 feet to 3 feet long and are usually made of iron or some other metal.Your forearm is 2-3 feet long?!
It also lists arrows, which are the same length.
I don't like items like this or the weapon cords that mess up action economy. (yo yo, yo yo gun!)
Then again, adventurers seem to pull things out of hammerspace even before they get haversacks. How many characters have you seen with stowed polearms?
Charlie Bell RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16 |
Drogon Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds |
CRobledo wrote:Angrish wrote:I've tried shoving a metamagic rod in one of my sheathes, and so far most of my gms have been ok with it.PRD wrote:Rods weigh approximately 5 pounds. They range from 2 feet to 3 feet long and are usually made of iron or some other metal.Your forearm is 2-3 feet long?!It also lists arrows, which are the same length.
I don't like items like this or the weapon cords that mess up action economy. (yo yo, yo yo gun!)
Then again, adventurers seem to pull things out of hammerspace even before they get haversacks. How many characters have you seen with stowed polearms?
Weapon cords break my verisimilitude in a big way. I'd be willing to bet anything that the last thing any real-world weapon master would want would be to have his weapon tied to his arm by a string. I'd think there are far too many in-combat drawbacks to it.
Weapon cords are for lances. You tie them to your saddle. That I'm okay with.
Sadly (for me) this is once again a permissive vs non-permissive issue...
Jiggy RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
Charlie Bell RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16 |
Weapon cords break my verisimilitude in a big way. I'd be willing to bet anything that the last thing any real-world weapon master would want would be to have his weapon tied to his arm by a string. I'd think there are far too many in-combat drawbacks to it.
Weapon cords are for lances. You tie them to your saddle. That I'm okay with.
Sadly (for me) this is once again a permissive vs non-permissive issue...
I could see how a corded lance could really trip up a horse, unless the cord's 5-10 feet long so it trails far behind.
Fake Healer |
I've tried shoving a metamagic rod in one of my sheathes, and so far most of my gms have been ok with it. I agree it comes down to the gm, and since the wording on the wrist sheath is (bold emphasis)WRIST SHEATH wrote:This is a sheath designed to be strapped to your forearm and hidden under a long sleeve. The sheath can hold one forearm-length item, such as a dagger, dart, or wand, or up to five arrows or crossbow bolts. As a move action, you can bend your wrist to cause some or all of these items to drop into your hand (provoking attacks of opportunity as normal). You have a +2 bonus on Sleight of Hand checks made to oppose the Perception check of someone observing or frisking you to determine items in the sheath. You can only wear one wrist sheath per arm.I'd say push "one forearm-length item" as far as you can rationalize. And be ready for a negative response, like when I tried shoving a pistol into one.
(Also I realize I quoted the regular version, but the spring loaded variety only qualifies the actions necessary to activate and reload the sheath.)
See I would be one to not allow magical rods. My reasoning is that a rod is about as long as a mace (especially since several are actually used as maces) and a mace is definitely longer than a forearm. Also I am surprised to see arrows mentioned in there...my forearm, from wrist to elbow, is only 11 inches long. Now granted I am an average 5'8" guy but show me an arrow that length that can be used on a shortbow or longbow or even one that would be under 15" and I would be mor inclined to believe this would work.
Fake Healer |
Jiggy wrote:Which always makes me laugh when I see the huge dragon's tactics listed as, "If he goes below xx hit points, he retreats to his lair and begins drinking healing potions."Core Rulebook, Magic Items chapter, Potions, Physical Description wrote:The stoppered container is usually no more than 1 inch wide and 2 inches high.
I always just see that as he crunches up the potion. Heck if he can chomp on a fighter in full plate he certainly can crack up a lil' bitty potion bottle with no problem.....it's like dragon aspirin.