Blessing of Pharasma


Rules Questions and Gameplay Discussion

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A quick clarification please. Blessing of Pharasma says "discard this card to add 2 dice to a check when playing a spell".

This is usually quite clear, however...

Lem's in STR-based combat and Lini plays the Strength spell to boost him. Strength reads: "Discard this card and select a character. For the rest of the turn, add 3 to that character's checks that use his Strength die."

Q1) Can BoPharasma be played during this combat to add two dice to the check?

Q2) Since Strength lasts for Lem's entire turn, if Lem explores again could a BoPharasma be played to help his *next* Strength based check/encounter?

Q3) In an even broader context, the Strength spell is active for the whole turn... could BoPharasma be played at ANY point during Lem's turn, even if the check in hand is not testing STR?

My guesses are:

A1) Yes
A2) Yes?
A3) No.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

A - Because you are casting a spell, the Blessing can be used to add 2 base dice to the check. So in this case since you are making a STR check, the base dice would be his STR which is a 1d4 making your check 1d4 + 2d4 +3. This would also count if you are casting Guidance, Aid, Force Missile, etc. Any time you are casting a spell to modify a check.

Yea, that Blessing in my opinion is one of the better ones in the game.

B - Yea, the spell last for the entire turn, so if he needs to make another STR check, it would modify it.

C - Sure. Unless a Spell specifically states when you can or cannot cast it, you can do it any time. Even on other players turns. I found this out when it was determined you can cast Cure on yourself even when it isn't your turn.

My only question on this and the Speed spell is what if you cast it when it is another player's turn. The card says it last until the end of the turn, but is your turn ended when you pass play to the next PC or when it comes back around to you. The reason being, is say you last the spell on your turn. Another PC comes into your location and pulls an Ancient Skeleton. Well, everyone at that location has to fight the AS right then and there. Is the Strength spell still active for that combat?


I need some clarification to answer your question.

Lem is in STR-based combat. Is he playing a spell?
The BoP works when the character using it is playing a spell. If Lem is going to play a spell, then he can bump it with BoP. If he is not going to play a spell, its moot.

This occurs regardless of Lini playing a spell on Lem, since she played the spell. Lem's BoP would not effect Lini's spell.

So, if Lem is in a straight STR check mode, not using a spell, BoP would be useless for him. If Lem is using a spell during his check, he can play BoP to bump that check.

So:

Q1) Yes, if Lem is playing a spell

Q2) Again, yes but only if Lem is playing a spell himself

Q3) BoP will only be useful when the BoP is used to augment a spell played by Lem, if won't effect Lini's spell.

Lini's strength spell will still help Lem throughout the turn for STR based checks, regardless of what Lem does.


Clarification: I see where you are going with that question, but I don't think BoP works that way on a spell like STR. Most of the other spells that have a die associated with them (IE Lightning touch) signify which die you are using, and therefore which die you would add (Arcane). To me, the Strength spell is just adding a +3 to any strength check, so it doesn't really have an inherent die to double.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The example stated he played the Strength spell....therefore he cast a spell. Just because the spell doesn't change the type of combat check doesn't mean he didn't cast a spell. As I said, the blessing is pretty powerful.

Now if Lem cast Strength to help out someone else's check...that is a little stickier. If you read it like a rules lawyer then technically it looks like only Lem can use the BoP to modify the check because he is the one playing the spell. But for the sake of this being a cooperative game and not a competitive game I see no reason that anyone can't use the BoP because a spell has been cast by at least someone to effect the check. Basically as long as there is some magic in the air, Pharasma is willing to help out on the roll.


TClifford wrote:

The example stated he played the Strength spell....therefore he cast a spell. Just because the spell doesn't change the type of combat check doesn't mean he didn't cast a spell. As I said, the blessing is pretty powerful.

Now if Lem cast Strength to help out someone else's check...that is a little stickier. If you read it like a rules lawyer then technically it looks like only Lem can use the BoP to modify the check because he is the one playing the spell. But for the sake of this being a cooperative game and not a competitive game I see no reason that anyone can't use the BoP because a spell has been cast by at least someone to effect the check. Basically as long as there is some magic in the air, Pharasma is willing to help out on the roll.

So, you are saying that on Lem's turn, Lini casts Str to help Lem. Lem plays BoP on Lini's Str spell to rebound and bump his own (Lem's) str check? I don't think that works that way.


Dr.Jay wrote:
Clarification: I see where you are going with that question, but I don't think BoP works that way on a spell like STR. Most of the other spells that have a die associated with them (IE Lightning touch) signify which die you are using, and therefore which die you would add (Arcane). To me, the Strength spell is just adding a +3 to any strength check, so it doesn't really have an inherent die to double.

This is the way i have been playing it. I never considered playing BoP with a spell like strength. I assumed it was only going to add the dice to a more conventional attack spell being played. Interesting, hopefully Vic will weigh in on this, but for know I am going to play it as i have.


@DrJay - I don't think the spellcaster has to play Blessing of Pharasma themselves. This is out of line with all the other blessings I can think of (don't have the box in front of me at the moment to check the cards) which can usually be played on anybody's checks. More details below.

@TClifford - yes, spells can, by default, be cast any time, except during an encounter/check (when only spells that affect the check can be cast). But that's a discussion for a different thread!

@TClifford - I'm pretty sure that spells like Strength only last until the "end of the CURRENT player's turn", not "the end of YOUR next turn". If an Ancient Skeleton turns up later that's bad luck and you'll have to deal with it some other way.

Back to the matter in hand...

I've reasoned BoP out to be a 'magic enhancer', so it makes sense that if there's a check with an active spell in it then BoP can be used by anybody.

Why "by anybody"?

Because it says "discard this card to add 2 dice to a check when playing a spell". It does not say "when you play a spell" or "when a spell is played on your check". Maybe I've got that wrong?

To add to this, as mentioned above, all the Blessings I can think of can be played be any player to boost any other player's checks.

So, in my mind: Lem could be in Combat; Lini can cast Strength on him; And Valeros could use BoP to boost the check.

Breaking this down:
- Lem is in a check situation and has chosen to test his STR (1d4)
- other players can now play boons/powers that boost STR, so Lini casts the Strength spell (+3)
- there's a spell affecting the check so Valeros now uses his BoP to add two more dice to the check (add 2d4)

As a result, Lem gets 3d4 + 3.

However, I don't think that BoP can be played during the turn if the player is not testing a stat which has been boosted with a spell. E.g. to me, I don't think you can play BoP to boost a non-STR based check if the only 'spell in the air' is the Strength spell. But this thread is here to figure out if this is the case or not!


H4ppy,

Yes, you are right, you can play blessings on anyone's check. So if, say, Ezren casts Lightning Touch, Lini can cast BoP and double whatever the base die is, in this case, Ezren's Arcane die or d12.

And, yes, I think strength only lasts til the end of your current turn.

The matter at hand:

To me, a spell like strength is meant to be a bump to your base skill die, just like checking the +3 box on your character card. In that situation, BoP would seem not to apply since its not referring to an individual check, but potentially many different checks (every time you use your strength skill).

For example, lets say it's Lem's turn. Lini plays strength and Val plays BoP on it. Would Lem get double die for every check for the remainder of his turn? That would seem to me to be outside the scope of BoP.

However, with something like a targeted spell, IE Lightning touch, that applies to a defined check (combat), BoP makes sense since it bumps the die for that check.

This is because, to me, the wording of the blessing refers to a check. Not the spell itself.

'discard this card to add 2 dice to a CHECK when playing a spell'

You aren't playing the Strength spell on a check, you're playing it on a player. It's effects later apply to checks (the +3), but you didn't play it to affect the check itself, you played it on the other player, in our example, Lem.

Whereas a combat spell, such as Lightning Touch is played on a combat check and therefore is affected by BoP to add the dice to the combat check.

My interpretation anyway.


Dr.Jay wrote:
For example, lets say it's Lem's turn. Lini plays strength and Val plays BoP on it. Would Lem get double die for every check for the remainder of his turn?

No, definitely not. BoP only lasts for the duration of a single check. We are agreed on this one!

Dr.Jay wrote:
You aren't playing the Strength spell on a check, you're playing it on a player.

Well, you can play the Strength spell 'on a check' if you play it during the "Play Cards that Affect The Check" phase of encounter resolution. Even if you played it before the encounter started, it's still affecting the check.


Dr.Jay wrote:
You aren't playing the Strength spell on a check, you're playing it on a player.
"h4ppy' wrote:
Well, you can play the Strength spell 'on a check' if you play it during the "Play Cards that Affect The Check" phase of encounter resolution. Even if you played it before the encounter started, it's still affecting the check.

You still aren't playing the Strength spell on a check. You may activate it during that phase of play, but you are playing the spell on another player (or yourself) and its effect will last beyond that check.


OK, I don't think it really matters too much in any case.

BoP says "discard this card to add 2 dice to a check when playing a spell".

Does that spell have to have dice of its own? I don't think so, but am prepared to be wrong.

Does that spell have to have been played 'on the check'? I don't think so, so long as there is a spell which is *affecting* the current check... but again, I'm prepared to be proven wrong! (And @TClifford doesn't even think it needs to affect the check, so long as there is 'magic in the air')


My interpretation is that the spell needs to affect the check itself, like a direct combat spell.

I interpret spells like strength as affecting a player, not a specific check. Therefore BoP doesn't apply.

That may be a too literal interpretation of the rules for some folks, but it makes sense to me.

But, as always, in the end it's whatever works for you and your group.

Good question and discussion!


h4ppy wrote:


Because it says "discard this card to add 2 dice to a check when playing a spell". It does not say "when you play a spell" or "when a spell is played on your check". Maybe I've got that wrong?

If I put my rules lawyer hat on, I would have to say there's an implied "you" in there. Like when someone says "Look both ways when crossing the street", they're essentially saying "*You* should look both ways when *you* cross the street."

If the Blessing is truly intended to be playable by anyone whenever a spell is played, it should have been worded something like this, "Discard this card to add 2 dice to a check with the Magic trait."


QuantumNinja wrote:
If the Blessing is truly intended to be playable by anyone whenever a spell is played, it should have been worded something like this, "Discard this card to add 2 dice to a check with the Magic trait."

Well... that would be a whole different barrel of monkeys. There are plenty of ways to add the magic trait to a check without casting a spell!


h4ppy wrote:
Well... that would be a whole different barrel of monkeys. There are plenty of ways to add the magic trait to a check without casting a spell!

Ah, you're right. Doesn't quite work, because weapons, items, etc. played with the Magic trait would also apply.

Perhaps then, something like this: "Discard this card to add 2 dice to a check for which a spell has been played."


But it doesn't say that, it says "discard this card to add 2 dice to a check when playing a spell" so we're wondering here if it can be used when a spell has been played but either was not played on the check directly or does not affect the check at all.


h4ppy wrote:
But it doesn't say that, it says "discard this card to add 2 dice to a check when playing a spell" so we're wondering here if it can be used when a spell has been played but either was not played on the check directly or does not affect the check at all.

Hmm, I see what you're getting at.

If I look closely at the wording of BoPharasma, as it is now, I would have to say that you can only play it for a check if a spell was played *during* that check. To me, "when playing a spell" implies that the spell had to have been cast in the same time frame as when the BoPharasma is cast. Since BoPharasma is cast during a check, it seems logical that the spell would have to be cast during the same check. Spells that don't affect the check at all can't be cast during a check, so they wouldn't work with BoPharasma.

My second attempt at rewording the card is not quite compatible with the interpretation, so that's a second strike for me.

Third attempt:
"Discard this card to add 2 dice to a check *during* which a spell was played."

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The spell has to be cast during that check. If Strength was cast on an earlier check and you happen upon another Strength check later in your turn because you explored again, you shouldn't be able to use the BoP because the spell isn't being cast for that check. It just so happens that it carried into the current check.

Again, it says if a spell is cast. It doesn't say who cast the spell. The golden rule seems to be, if the card doesn't have a limit, then don't make one up.


@TClifford yep, that was what I have been trying, albeit not well, to say all along. It just makes it easier for me to remember by thinking of Strength as being cast on the player rather than check.


But aren't you making up a limit that the spell has to be cast during the (current) check?


Yes.

Oh, maybe I was misreading TC a bit.

I see it as the spell that gets BoP played on it needs to be cast for that check. And by that I mean applied to that check, not applied across the board. I'm sticking with Strength type spells being cast on a player, not a check itself, no matter when in the sequence it gets cast. So, it is ineligible for BoP.

Who the heck really knows though? I am probably wrong. :)


h4ppy wrote:

A quick clarification please. Blessing of Pharasma says "discard this card to add 2 dice to a check when playing a spell".

This is usually quite clear, however...

Then you're doing better than me here. I find that wording to be among the most confusing of all the blessings.

h4ppy wrote:


Lem's in STR-based combat and Lini plays the Strength spell to boost him. Strength reads: "Discard this card and select a character. For the rest of the turn, add 3 to that character's checks that use his Strength die."

Q1) Can BoPharasma be played during this combat to add two dice to the check?

My interpretation is no. The card Strength itself does not require or involve making a check (other than perhaps a recharge check), so there would be no dice to add when playing the spell.

h4ppy wrote:


Q2) Since Strength lasts for Lem's entire turn, if Lem explores again could a BoPharasma be played to help his *next* Strength based check/encounter?

Again, no. The blessing doesn't add to his strength checks, only to checks that occur when playing a spell (not after the spell has been played but is still in effect.)

h4ppy wrote:


Q3) In an even broader context, the Strength spell is active for the whole turn... could BoPharasma be played at ANY point during Lem's turn, even if the check in hand is not testing STR?

No, for the same reasons as above.

Honestly, I think the wording is intended to give a blessing that helps with offensive spells the way there is a blessing that helps with strength/dexterity combat checks. I'm not even completely sure the blessing can affect checks to RECHARGE the spell, since at the point of doing a recharge check, the spell has already been played.

Some official ruling on this would be great!

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

There are three example where Strength comes into play.

1. A check has been determined and you are gathering resources for that check. One of the resources is that a Strength spell has been cast.

2. Someone cast Strength, but there isn't currently an active check.

3. Strength was cast earlier in the turn and still active for a later check.

For you to use BoP you need to meet two conditions. A - A check has to be made, B - A spell has to be cast for that check.

Example 1. There is a check and a spell has been cast: You can use BoP

Example 2. There is no check and a spell has been cast: You cannot use BoP

Example 3. There is a check and no spell has been cast: You cannot use BoP.


TClifford wrote:

There are three example where Strength comes into play.

1. A check has been determined and you are gathering resources for that check. One of the resources is that a Strength spell has been cast.

2. Someone cast Strength, but there isn't currently an active check.

3. Strength was cast earlier in the turn and still active for a later check.

For you to use BoP you need to meet two conditions. A - A check has to be made, B - A spell has to be cast for that check.

Example 1. There is a check and a spell has been cast: You can use BoP

Example 2. There is no check and a spell has been cast: You cannot use BoP

Example 3. There is a check and no spell has been cast: You cannot use BoP.

This wording seems less precise than needed to me. In particular, it raises the same question as the original one: does the wording on the blessing mean "a spell that has been cast" or does it mean "when playing a spell." The first interpretation is, in my view, almost certainly NOT what was intended. That is, the fact that a spell was cast previously should not allow anyone to play this blessing on subsequent checks (possibly even including recharge checks for the spell that was played). Whether that's how the card was MEANT to be played, that interpretation is the most consistent with the actual wording.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Where is the confusion? The card states: discard this card to add 2 dice to a check when playing a spell

Add 2 dice to a CHECK. PLAYING A SPELL.

You aren't playing a spell if the spell is in effect for a later check. The way I see it is that when the caster is pulling the energy to actually cast the spell, Pharasma is around to help with the casting itself. After that the spell is on autopilot and no help from Pharasma.

Let me ask you this. Can the same PC that cast the Strength on a previous check, later on cast say Aid on a later check? Of course they can, because it is a different check and the limitations to one PLAYED spell per check doesn't come into effect just because there is still an active Strength spell on the active PC.

Oh and to your other point: No you wouldn't be able to use a BoP to help recharge the spell you just cast for the previous check. Because the recharge check is separate from the combat check. The only way you would be able to use the BoP would be if someone cast as spell to help in your recharge check...like say Aid. Then since a spell was played for the check, you would be able to use the BoP.

Under you thought process, you would never be able to use a BoP for Strength at all. That doesn't make any sense. Strength is a spell that can be cast in reaction to a required check. It can meet all the requirements to use BoP. Just sometimes it doesn't.

I should point out that I think the BoP is one of the most powerful Blessings in the game.


I believe the card is intended to help someone casting a spell to improve their check when the spell is used to augment that check, such as the 'for your combat check ...' But that's just my two cents.

As a side question, are there any non-attack spells currently that result or are casts in response to making a check (other than Strength which can only be casts in response to a check because it affects the check itself)?

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Firedale2002 wrote:

I believe the card is intended to help someone casting a spell to improve their check when the spell is used to augment that check, such as the 'for your combat check ...' But that's just my two cents.

As a side question, are there any non-attack spells currently that result or are casts in response to making a check (other than Strength which can only be casts in response to a check because it affects the check itself)?

Glibness augments CHA so could be used for an Arcane Combat Check by Seoni & Lem. Speed augments DEX so could be used for a Ranged Combat Check.


TClifford wrote:
Firedale2002 wrote:

I believe the card is intended to help someone casting a spell to improve their check when the spell is used to augment that check, such as the 'for your combat check ...' But that's just my two cents.

As a side question, are there any non-attack spells currently that result or are casts in response to making a check (other than Strength which can only be casts in response to a check because it affects the check itself)?

Glibness augments CHA so could be used for an Arcane Combat Check by Seoni & Lem. Speed augments DEX so could be used for a Ranged Combat Check.

I disagree with this completely. I think that the blessing can't be played to add dice to ANY of those situations (well, the first one is vague, so it might be possible, I'd have to re-read the cards to be more certain). In fact, there are individual blessings (none of which is Pharasma) to be used in for Strength and Dexterity based combat checks.

I think we're really going to need an official ruling here... people who normally agree on rules interpretations are interpreting this card quite differently.

I'd say you can only use Pharasma to add 2 dice if you're playing a spell that actually calls for a check itself (i.e. the way force missile requires a check to be made). That is, I see "when playing a spell" to mean that the ability to add dice to a check only applies when you actually play the spell, meaning that as soon as you're done playing the spell (and it's effect happens), the opportunity to play the blessing has passed. As such, it would only apply to checks cause by the playing of the spell... and Strength, Speed, Glibness, etc. do not do that.

Can we get a ruling here?


... I know you are the official designer... But this is making no sense at all.

I can use BoP to add dice to a check If a spell is cast ? Regardless of the spell or the check ???

Guidance + BoP on any test is +2 base dice ? WTF !!!


@Nathaniel - although many of the people that have commented on this thread so far are regulars, none of us are the game designers :)

We all look forward to an official response (semi-official from Mike Selinker or written-in-stone-unless-he-loses-an-arm-wrestle-with-Mike from Vic Wertz)!

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

For my 2 cp I would think that the Blessing could only be used on spells which allow you to make a check.

Adding a bonus to a skill which indirectly impacts a check and then adding dice to the check seems against the spirit of the blessing cards. Any blessing can be used to add a single die to a check. Every instance of a blessing seems to indicate a specific type of check for the use of the second bonus power.

To put it another way, if there is no check required to cast a spell then no dice can be added. It is similar to cards that let you auto succeed or defeat. No check is rolled and no blessing can be used.


The way I would interpret this is as follows:

Lini plays Strength. The spell "is being played" (present tense), then it resolves (creates a skill modifier that expires at the end of current turn); it is no longer considered "being played" and has moved on to "been played" (past tense). There is no check for this spell, so there is no opportunity to catch it while it is "being played" to play a blessing. Similarly for Aid, Guidance, Glibness, etc.

Lem then makes his check. There may be an active spell effect, but no one is actively playing a spell (present tense), so BoP would contribute only a single die.

Even if Lini cast the spell during the "get help" stage of Lem's check, I would still argue that is no longer [i]being played[i] when it comes time to roll the dice because it has already resolved.

So my vote is "no" to all 3 questions.


@happy, my bad I keep mixing Vic and TClifford, too similar avatars...

But I stand my point.


Having played more now, I think I have to agree that the answers are probably "no" to all three of the examples in my OP (and @FlatTheImpaler's latest post really pressed this home) - but it would be great to get an official answer!

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
1970Zombie wrote:

For my 2 cp I would think that the Blessing could only be used on spells which allow you to make a check.

Adding a bonus to a skill which indirectly impacts a check and then adding dice to the check seems against the spirit of the blessing cards. Any blessing can be used to add a single die to a check. Every instance of a blessing seems to indicate a specific type of check for the use of the second bonus power.

To put it another way, if there is no check required to cast a spell then no dice can be added. It is similar to cards that let you auto succeed or defeat. No check is rolled and no blessing can be used.

That is pretty much a no brainer. If there is no check to make then there is no dice to use, so there is no reason or ability to use any blessing.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Flat the Impaler wrote:

The way I would interpret this is as follows:

Lini plays Strength. The spell "is being played" (present tense), then it resolves (creates a skill modifier that expires at the end of current turn); it is no longer considered "being played" and has moved on to "been played" (past tense). There is no check for this spell, so there is no opportunity to catch it while it is "being played" to play a blessing. Similarly for Aid, Guidance, Glibness, etc.

Lem then makes his check. There may be an active spell effect, but no one is actively playing a spell (present tense), so BoP would contribute only a single die.

Even if Lini cast the spell during the "get help" stage of Lem's check, I would still argue that is no longer [i]being played[i] when it comes time to roll the dice because it has already resolved.

So my vote is "no" to all 3 questions.

So say I am casting Aid to a check.....I can't use BoP to add 2 extra dice?

There is a check, there was a spell cast....pretty much word for word what is on the BoP ability.

Oh and YES! If you use Guidance to add in a check, you get to use the 2 dice ability for BoP. There is a check, and a spell was cast.


TClifford wrote:


So say I am casting Aid to a check.....I can't use BoP to add 2 extra dice?

There is a check, there was a spell cast....pretty much word for word what is on the BoP ability.

Oh and YES! If you use Guidance to add in a check, you get to use the 2 dice ability for BoP. There is a check, and a spell was cast.

I still say no. When you play aid, that adds to another check, no question. But you wouldn't be playing the blessing "when playing a spell", you'd be playing a blessing AFTER playing the spell. Same with guidance.

In short, BoP does NOT say, "Discard this card to add 2 dice to a check on which you've played a spell", which seems to be the way you're interpreting it.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
TClifford wrote:
1970Zombie wrote:

For my 2 cp I would think that the Blessing could only be used on spells which allow you to make a check.

Adding a bonus to a skill which indirectly impacts a check and then adding dice to the check seems against the spirit of the blessing cards. Any blessing can be used to add a single die to a check. Every instance of a blessing seems to indicate a specific type of check for the use of the second bonus power.

To put it another way, if there is no check required to cast a spell then no dice can be added. It is similar to cards that let you auto succeed or defeat. No check is rolled and no blessing can be used.

That is pretty much a no brainer. If there is no check to make then there is no dice to use, so there is no reason or ability to use any blessing.

The part you are missing is that the spells in question do not require checks so there is no target check for the BoP to add dice toward. It does not make sense that you would add 2 dice to Valeros's combat chect becasue Ezren cast Strength on the fighter. The check being modified in that example is likely a Strength/Melee Combat Check not a spell. The card does not say "Discard this card to add 2 dice to a check which has had a spell played upon it."

All the basic blessing seem to have a focus on one type of check. Blessing of Lamashtu works on any check to defeat a monster. This could be added to a Strength/Melee, Dexerity/Ranged, Arcane, Divine or other unusual combat check against a monster.

The second power of BoP says:

"Discard this card to add 2 dice to a check when playing a spell."

It seems to me that this is saying that the blessing only adds bonus dice to a check that is initiated by playing a spell. i.e. The Combat check when Ezren casts a Scorching Ray. BoP would also apply to Seoni's blast power as it counts as playing a spell.


You can never play BoP on a Strength spell as the spell itself does not indicate which die to use. the spell gives a flat 3 bonus. For me the BoP card alludes to when your spell tells you to 'Roll your' Arcane(for example) die not 'when making a check' it's a subtle difference to interpret. remember it doesn't tell you to roll your strength die on the strength spell when you play it ergo no die to x times for Bop use again just the flat bonus of 3.
So when you play a BoP the spell in question should tell you to roll specific die in that moment.
same sort of thing with a cure spell....it tells you to shuffle 1d4+1 spells back into your deck, not 'roll your' Divine(for example) die to heal your cards back.

Imagine a spell called 'Greater Strength' that allowed only the character casting the spell to 'roll d12 +2 for your strength check' then because the spell indicates specific die for the spell in that moment, you could play BoP

This is how I have been using the BoP card anyway.

Happy Hunting.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

So some...please. Explain to me a scenario where you can even use BoP. Because everything I see on here states you can't use it at all.


I think like all other blessing the dice are added to a check. So for spells that would be all the Attack spells. The ones that say, "for your combat check..." and also Seoni's blast power.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Drunkenping wrote:
I think like all other blessing the dice are added to a check. So for spells that would be all the Attack spells. The ones that say, "for your combat check..." and also Seoni's blast power.

So if I am playing Lini, bear up and got Melee on something, if I cast Aid on myself to help the roll, I can't use BoP? It's my check. It's my spell. What in the text on that Blessing says I can't use it? The blessing only mentions a spell being played. It doesn't say, "When playing a spell to set the check"

And again....why are combat spells any more important that modifier spells? They are both spells no matter what.


TClifford wrote:
Drunkenping wrote:
I think like all other blessing the dice are added to a check. So for spells that would be all the Attack spells. The ones that say, "for your combat check..." and also Seoni's blast power.

So if I am playing Lini, bear up and got Melee on something, if I cast Aid on myself to help the roll, I can't use BoP? It's my check. It's my spell. What in the text on that Blessing says I can't use it? The blessing only mentions a spell being played. It doesn't say, "When playing a spell to set the check"

And again....why are combat spells any more important that modifier spells? They are both spells no matter what.

I have always assumed that the dice added by BoP were intended to be directed towards spells that set your base die during the determining what die you are using step, so that's pretty much any type of attack spell that sets the dice for a combat check.

But, i can see that the wording is not so clear and can be interperted the way you are, and there is nothing in the way that the cards are worded to say you are incorrect.

I guess it will come down to the developers saying that they intended it to be played the way I have beem playing it, since what the cards say as written support your interpertation.

For now, i'll continue playing it the way i have been playing it, since that's what feels right, even if it is not correct.


Where's that Bat Signal when we need it?


OK lets try and look at this BoP card another way shall we :D

So you have a blessing for each non-combat based skill check:

Blessing of Torag = Strength
Blessing of Calistra = Dexterity
Blessing of Sarenrae = Constitution
Blessing of Irori = Intelligence
Blessing of Shelyn = Wisdom
Blessing of Iomedae = Charisma

Then:
Blessing of Desna that helps with recharging a card so this implies any recharge across the board for any card that has a recharge.(unless it implicitly says otherwise)

Then we have a blessing for each combat based skill check:

Blessing of Gorum = Strength
Blessing of Erastil = Dexterity
which the leaves the last blessing type...BoP which by process of elimination sits into the pile for spell based combat checks..............
Blessing of Pharasma = Spell (based combat checks)

Now of course the topic of conversation here is more about the wording on the BoP card...I understand that.
But for me I am playing it as my Spell based combat check. because I really believe that was the intention of this card - despite how it's written on the card itself....it seems fair this way too.

Pathfinder Adventure Card Game Designer

h4ppy wrote:
Where's that Bat Signal when we need it?

We have an answer for this. Vic is writing it up in the FAQ. Your patience is appreciated.


@Mike - Do you have a keyword search that alerts you when there's a bat signal? :)

Pathfinder Adventure Card Game Designer

Me? No, I'm just a reclusive playboy billionaire. Maybe you should ask Commissioner Gordon.


Responding within 60 seconds to a new post containing the phrase "bat signal" only confirms my suspicions!

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