Saving Throws: Nonmagical, unattended items never make saving throws. They are considered to have failed their saving throws, so they are always fully affected by spells and other attacks that allow saving throws to resist or negate. An item attended by a character (being grasped, touched, or worn) makes saving throws as the character (that is, using the character's saving throw bonus).
Magic items always get saving throws. A magic item's Fortitude, Reflex, and Will save bonuses are equal to 2 + half its caster level. An attended magic item either makes saving throws as its owner or uses its own saving throw bonus, whichever is better.
Just wondering if there are any exceptions to this rule related to thrown items, or any other cases where an item is under a characters control or direction but not being grasped, touched, or worn...
Explain.
Ready an action to mage hand an incoming arrow?
A thrown weapon (once the roll is made to attack) is no longer being grasped, touched or worn, so it would be unattended.
If you were using readied actions, since they happen just before the trigger, you'd have to word it properly "If I am hit with a thrown javelin, Shatter it" Meaning, the attacker would have to roll a hit with a javelin for your action to trigger.
"I ready an action to shatter the javelin."
I actually don't see why not. Would be cool, to be sure.
Ready an action to mage hand an incoming arrow?
As a DM I would not allow this as there are feats for that and a 0 level spell with a 5lb limit on what it can carry should not be able to duplicate that. Besides, I would argue the projectile to be more than a Mage Hand could stop due to the force when the speed of the arrow is taken into consideration. It is not in the rules that it cannot be done, but then it is not in the rules that it could be done so DM's prerogative.
Admittedly, though, they are wasting a full standard action on a cantrip. Instead of more useful spells. So from a mechanics standpoint, it's kinda the worse option. Although I feel it is a bit... silly? Doesn't really break verisimilitude, but it does seem, idk, unintended? *shrug* hard to explain + lack of sleep affecting me.
"I ready an action to shatter the javelin."
I'm not sure it works, if you try to do it in order to avoid being hit. The point is: can you ready an action that words something like "when the javelin left the hand of my opponent I shatter it"? If yes, you can shatter it as unattended object. But I think you cannot do it, because seems not fit the concept of readied action.
What about Alchemist bombs? hells, even the Fireball bead could be messed with like this.
Can you ready an action to shoot a fireball bead/bombs at a given point with a bow?
"When a javelin, thrown by an enemy, enters a square within ten feet of me, I cast [i]shatter[i] on it".
I don't see how it's not RAW
IIRC there's nothing in the rules about ranged weapons actually travelling through squares in order to hit targets. But the combat rules are kind of all over the place so I would be pleasantly surprised to discover I was wrong.
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The thing to remember about Mage Hand...
School transmutation; Level bard 0, sorcerer/wizard 0
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target one , unattended object weighing up to 5 lbs.
Duration concentration
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no
You point your finger at an object and can lift it and move it at will from a distance. As a move action, you can propel the object as far as 15 feet in any direction, though the spell ends if the distance between you and the object ever exceeds the spell's range.
That said, a theoretical question; A nonmagical arrow fired out of a magical bow gets the bow's Enhancement bonus. Does it make it magical by RAW, and thus unmagehandable?
EDIT: Or I could read a little farther...
Ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an enhancement bonus of +1 or higher is treated as a magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Similarly, ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an alignment gains the alignment of that projectile weapon.
"When a javelin, thrown by an enemy, enters a square within ten feet of me, I cast [i]shatter[i] on it".
I don't see how it's not RAW
I would allow it if you use a quickend shatter spell or something similar with a free/swift/immediate action as casting time. It is only an eye blink until you are hit ..
I'd like to hear more about what the OP is trying to understand.
This topic came up a lot in 3.5, when people were trying to figure out if a blinking rogue throwing acid flasks took the normal miss chance from blinking, or if the flasks would became corporeal as soon as he threw them. Because Paizo nixed that particular build in Pathfinder, it's almost like the topic went away on its own -- but apparently not.
While I appreciate everyone chipping in and saying what they think the OP is trying to understand, I'd really like to hear what the OP is trying to understand with this question.
Ready an action to mage hand an incoming arrow?Why not just use mage hand to grab all the arrows out of the quiver instead?
Arrows in a quiver on a creature are most assuredly attended objects.
Can archers shoot through a wall of fire, or are all their arrows burned away?
If an archer is standing within the heat range of a wall of fire, does his arrow take damage the moment it leaves his bow?
Can archers shoot through a wall of fire, or are all their arrows burned away?
If an archer is standing within the heat range of a wall of fire, does his arrow take damage the moment it leaves his bow?
Wall of XYZ would block LoS to a target (unless it states you can see through it, as is the case with Wall of Force) so that might complicate things more.
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Legend of Zelda taught me that shooting arrows through fire makes it a flaming arrow.
So that :)
Explain.
Thanks for taking a look at this! Sorry I was AFK for a little there.
This came up while we were battling a Remorhaz during an epic set of encounters in one of the fine Adventure Paths. The question oddly came up again the same session when we encountered a Babau that has the Protective Slime ability. One of the characters is a dagger throwing fighter and the difference between his fortitude save and that of a +1 dagger is very substantial.
Remorhaz and Protective Slime supernatural ability:
Protective Slime (Su) A layer of acidic slime coats a babau's skin. Any creature that strikes a babau with a natural attack or unarmed strike takes 1d8 points of acid damage from this slime if it fails a DC 18 Reflex save. A creature that strikes a babau with a melee weapon must make a DC 18 Reflex save or the weapon takes 1d8 points of acid damage; if this damage penetrates the weapon's hardness, the weapon gains the broken condition. Ammunition that strikes a babau is automatically destroyed after it inflicts its damage.
This rules molehill was turned into a rules-lawyering mountain when the GM made the on-the-fly ruling that any weapon that failed it's save only dealt half damage to the Remorhaz. Unfortunately, this bogged the game down as the player of the fighter felt that this was an unfair ruling.
I guess the point of my question boils down to: are there exceptions to the "carried, worn, or held" definition of "attended" and is throwing a melee weapon one of those exceptions.
Thanks again!
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If you aren't holding it, it isn't carried, worn, or held.
"It deals half damage because the monster ability destroys it" is definitely a house rule (otherwise the Heat or Protective Slime ability would say "if this destroys the weapon, it only deals half damage").
Pretty sure that when you bash something with a bow, the bow is an (improvised) melee weapon, even though it is also in principle a ranged weapon.
Correct.
Pretty sure that when you bash something with a bow, the bow is an (improvised) melee weapon, even though it is also in principle a ranged weapon.Correct.
So now we can flank with a bow?
edit:
Obviously only as an improvised melee weapon, but still. This changes things in gameplay.
Pretty sure that when you bash something with a bow, the bow is an (improvised) melee weapon, even though it is also in principle a ranged weapon.Correct.So now we can flank with a bow?
edit:
Obviously only as an improvised melee weapon, but still. This changes things in gameplay.
I don't see why not, though as a GM I'd give the bow the fragile quality and treat it like a club under that circumstance.