Seriously, is it?
I'm a Sorceror/Ranger/Soon-to-be Dragon Disciple focused on natural weapons (two claws from natural combat style feat). Is the 1+1/5 levels worth the feat?
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afaik, yes.
It depends:
What would you do with the feat instead?
How often do you need your swift action for other things?
How does your caster level compare to your character level?
What does afaik mean?
I'm not planning on using the swift actions, so it's there.
With the feat....I don't know.
And I have the magical knack trait, so my faster level will stay at character level-1 for a while (two level ranger dip, +2 caster level, -1 from first level of DD).
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AFAIK = as far as I know.
On the feat itself: see my post in the other thread of yours.
Ruyan.
Generally speaking, the answer is going to depend on how many attack rolls you make, what your action economy on swift actions looks like, and your caster level. If your swift action is usually free and you make a lot of physical attacks, it's a nice feat that ends up giving more of a damage boost than both of the weapon specialization feats, and without locking you into using a single weapon.
For reference, Arcane Strike is generally considered a must have in most battle bard builds.
It's better than Weapon Specialization/Greater Weapon Specialization.
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AFAIK = As far as I know
Magical Knack helps you keep up your CL, even with multi-classing. Not perfectly, but pretty close.
It's extra damage on every attack if you're not using the swift actions for anything else, so it can be pretty good on some characters. I'm planning to take it on my archery focused bard, probably as my 4th feat after Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, and Rapid Shot.
Playing an 11th level archer bard and I love it. It is worth +3 to damage on my 4-5 bowshots when I full attack. That's not too shabby for an action I wouldn't otherwise be using.
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As Far As I Know, for one.
What's nice about the feat is if you're a melee dependent mage, such as the Magus or the Dragon Disciple, it's like Power Attack for Barbarians/Fighters. Bonus to damage when you attack. It provides less damage, but it doesn't take away your To-Hit and requires a swift action instead of it being part of an attack action.
AFAIK = as far as I know.
On the feat itself: see my post in the other thread of yours.Ruyan.
Remember, Ruyan, I have these claws out all the time.
As Far As I Know, for one.
What's nice about the feat is if you're a melee dependent mage, such as the Magus or the Dragon Disciple, it's like Power Attack for Barbarians/Fighters. Bonus to damage when you attack. It provides less damage, but it doesn't take away your To-Hit and requires a swift action instead of it being part of an attack action.
The bonus damage especially starts to stack up when I'm +2 or more.
With my two claws, that's four more points of damage the enemy doesn't have.|
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As Far As I Know, for one.
What's nice about the feat is if you're a melee dependent mage, such as the Magus or the Dragon Disciple, it's like Power Attack for Barbarians/Fighters. Bonus to damage when you attack. It provides less damage, but it doesn't take away your To-Hit and requires a swift action instead of it being part of an attack action.
Actually, the magus class uses their swift actions for other things, so it's not quite as good for them.
Post your build
Okay:
Abresh, Gnome Sorceror 3/Ranger 1 (draconic bloodline [white])Feats-
1-Sorceror 1- eschew materials, scribe scroll
2-S2
3-S3 elemental spell (cold)
4-Ranger 1-
5-R2- aspect of the beast (claws, 1d3), improved natural attack (1d4)
6-DD1-
7-DD2-blind-fight or power attack (??), ??
Spells-
0- daze, ray of frost, spark, disrupt undead, one more
1- Mage armor, burning hands, shocking grasp, magic missile
That's about all I have right now. I'm not at home, but Abresh is, so...
I might be reluctant to take it before level 5, since it generally doesn't do that much extra damage, but it is still nice over all. The fact that it says "weapons" means it gets added to all your attacks, which is great for builds with lots of attacks (TWF, archery)
It is a great option for rangers. They tend to have the right fighting style, they can simply pick up a SLA from a trait and use their own CL to keep it up to par, they tend to not have much to do with swift actions, and they get most of their important combat feats through their class so they can make more room for the arcane strike.
Rogues can also enjoy it with only the use of a single rogue talent, and it allows them to use arcane strike for its original intention: to recoup damage for low strength builds. It helps to make them more effective even when they do not sneak attack.
It is also a godsend for thrower builds. It allows them to have their attacks count as magic (thus bypassing the most common DR in the game) without having to buy a bunch of +1 daggers and worrying about picking them back up afterwards. Now they can just buy a ton of cold iron and silver daggers and be done with it for almost no cost. It is also great for Kali build eidolons for similar reasons.
I might be reluctant to take it before level 5, since it generally doesn't do that much extra damage, but it is still nice over all. The fact that it says "weapons" means it gets added to all your attacks, which is great for builds with lots of attacks (TWF, archery)
It is a great option for rangers. They tend to have the right fighting style, they can simply pick up a SLA from a trait and use their own CL to keep it up to par, they tend to not have much to do with swift actions, and they get most of their important combat feats through their class so they can make more room for the arcane strike.
Rogues can also enjoy it with only the use of a single rogue talent, and it allows them to use arcane strike for its original intention: to recoup damage for low strength builds. It helps to make them more effective even when they do not sneak attack.
It is also a godsend for thrower builds. It allows them to have their attacks count as magic (thus bypassing the most common DR in the game) without having to buy a bunch of +1 daggers and worrying about picking them back up afterwards. Now they can just buy a ton of cold iron and silver daggers and be done with it for almost no cost. It is also great for Kali build eidolons for similar reasons.
With the build above, would you take it in that 7th level feat slot? If not, what would you take?
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Actually, the magus class uses their swift actions for other things, so it's not quite as good for them.As Far As I Know, for one.
What's nice about the feat is if you're a melee dependent mage, such as the Magus or the Dragon Disciple, it's like Power Attack for Barbarians/Fighters. Bonus to damage when you attack. It provides less damage, but it doesn't take away your To-Hit and requires a swift action instead of it being part of an attack action.
Ah, but they do have a lot of ___ times per day going on, so it might not be the worst idea... especially if you weren't given a lot of Points to start with for a point buy. I mean, there are better things to get for sure, but at least it isn't cutting down on the to hit.
With the build above, would you take it in that 7th level feat slot? If not, what would you take?
Well, if you do not find anything that is more important. Since you mentioned magical knack before, you should have enough of a CL to get a +2 to damage by that point, so it would represent a nice little addition to damage. Essentially, it would be similar to taking weapon specialization at that point (without actually specializing, which would be nice of a natural attack build, which you seem to be leaning towards)
It all depends on what you think your bonus to hit will be. Power attack would give you twice the damage bonus, but it costs you in accuracy. With the multiclassing into sorcerer, you lost 2 BAB (but your are still at the same level as a 3/4 bab class). You also have to worry about the fact that it is harder to enhance natural weapons due to the cost of the Amulet of Mighty Fists.
With the build above, would you take it in that 7th level feat slot? If not, what would you take?Well, if you do not find anything that is more important. Since you mentioned magical knack before, you should have enough of a CL to get a +2 to damage by that point, so it would represent a nice little addition to damage. Essentially, it would be similar to taking weapon specialization at that point (without actually specializing, which would be nice of a natural attack build, which you seem to be leaning towards)
It all depends on what you think your bonus to hit will be. Power attack would give you twice the damage bonus, but it costs you in accuracy. With the multiclassing into sorcerer, you lost 2 BAB (but your are still at the same level as a 3/4 bab class). You also have to worry about the fact that it is harder to enhance natural weapons due to the cost of the Amulet of Mighty Fists.
I am looking at a natural weapons build. It will be a lot of fun...I hope.
I didn't multiclass into Sorceror, I multiclassed out of sorceror, into Ranger.
To get the +2 bab, favored enemy, divine completion items, and combat style feats.
Along with a replacement of Track and an adjustment to Animal Empathy from Dungeoneers' guide, it makes for a nice story.
I'm hoping to get it houseruled that I can find a way to enchant my two claws.
Not too sure how that'll go, but we'll see!
Well, there are a number of items for enchanting natural weapons. But they are costly.
The amulet of mighty fists is typically the preferred way, since it enchants everything and always applies. It also costs twice the normal price of a similarly enchanted weapon. It also takes up the amulet slot.
The more recent bodywraps of mighty strikes are cheaper, and can work well with a limited amount of natural attacks. It can enchant only so many attacks per round (1 for BAB 1-5, 2 for 6-10, etc). It takes up the body slot, and costs only 1.5 times the normal price.
Another interesting new item is the Frost Fist Amulet. It freezes your hands into solid slabs of cold iron with a swift action. Besides the obvious advantage of counting unarmed strikes and claws as a special material, it also adds the frost property to your attacks. The obvious drawback of all this is that your hands are slabs of metal (but hey, you have eschew materials, so it might not be too much of a problem)
Why do people like this feat on bards? Aren't you normally doing bardic performance regularly? It seems like that's a better use of your swift action than Arcane Strike.
Why do people like this feat on bards? Aren't you normally doing bardic performance regularly? It seems like that's a better use of your swift action than Arcane Strike.
I think you are confusing things. It is a free action to maintain a performance, while starting it is a standard/move/swift action at level 1/7/13. So after the first round or two of buffs, arcane strike is good for all the other rounds where you might want to smack things in the head if you go for a melee build.
Whether your fights last long enough to use it depends on how powerful your teammates are. But hey, arcane duelist gives it as a bonus feat, and that is generally a rather nice archetype (trading some social and antibard measures for things like bonus feats and better armors)
I think you are confusing things. It is a free action to maintain a performance, while starting it is a standard/move/swift action at level 1/7/13. So after the first round or two of buffs, arcane strike is good for all the other rounds where you might want to smack things in the head if you go for a melee build.
Ah, so it is. Thanks!
I'm using it for Archer Bard too...
Here's my partial build. It's not optimized because I was planning on taking Arcane Archer. I'm going to retrain Weapon Focus to Rapid Shot:
Alton Nimblewit
NG Halfling Bard 10
Str 15
Dex 18 (+2 Belt of Dexterity)
Con 12
Int 16
Wis 7
Cha 18 (+2 Crown of the Kobold King)
Feats: Arcane Strike, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Focus (Shortbow), Deadly Aim
Weapon: +1 merciful composite shortbow, mighty +2
Attacks: +15/+10 (+7/+2 BAB, +4 DEX, +1 size, +1 enchant, -2 Deadly Aim, +1 Point Blank Shot, +2 Bardic Performance, +1 Weapon Focus)
Damage: 1d4 +13 (+2 Str, +1 Enchant, +3 Arcane Strike, +2 Bardic Performance, +1 Point Blank Shot, +4 Deadly Aim), +1d6 (if nonlethal)
Our GM often forces us to fight in close quarters combat (which neither myself nor our Tetori are concerned about), so Point Blank Shot almost always applies.
Unless I'm fighting creatures immune to nonlethal damage, I'm consistently dealing ~37 points of damage a round, not accounting for crits. 6 of those points are thanks to Arcane Strike.
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Why do people like this feat on bards? Aren't you normally doing bardic performance regularly? It seems like that's a better use of your swift action than Arcane Strike.They like it on BATTLE BARDS. The kind of bards that focus their activity on mixing it up in melee like the Arcane Duellist. Besides, maintaining a bardic performance is a free action once you have it running.
This, a typical battle bards combat at level 7+ usually looks like this.
Round 1 - Active bardic performance as move action, cast haste as a standard actionRound 2 - Maintain bardic performance as a free action, activate arcane strike as a swift action, and use your full round action to attack.
You are buffing yourself to put out some solid damage. Nothing amazing, but definately better than a non-flanking rogue. Further, you are buffing every martial in the group with haste and inspire courage. The overall effect is very devastating.
This has developed into a very nice conversation.
Where is the Arcane Duelist? I might have to try it out someday.
Design Manager
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This has developed into a very nice conversation.
Where is the Arcane Duelist? I might have to try it out someday.
He's in the APG.
Arcane Duelist
Ruyan.
What kind of Bard are you?!
The awesome kind with claws!
What kind of Bard are you?!The awesome kind with claws!
The kind that has ultimate powers to bend the universe as he pleases, or beat occupants of said universe into submission.
Care to duel.?
What kind of Bard are you?!The awesome kind with claws!The kind that has ultimate powers to bend the universe as he pleases, or beat occupants of said universe into submission.
Care to duel.?
Fine, but only if it's card games on motorcycles.
Only if these Dragon Motircycles get their fuel from the souls of ancient red dragons, slain by only a non-magical dagger.
(Good luck with that.)
But other than that, sure.
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Ah, but they do have a lot of ___ times per day going on, so it might not be the worst idea... especially if you weren't given a lot of Points to start with for a point buy. I mean, there are better things to get for sure, but at least it isn't cutting down on the to hit.Actually, the magus class uses their swift actions for other things, so it's not quite as good for them.As Far As I Know, for one.
What's nice about the feat is if you're a melee dependent mage, such as the Magus or the Dragon Disciple, it's like Power Attack for Barbarians/Fighters. Bonus to damage when you attack. It provides less damage, but it doesn't take away your To-Hit and requires a swift action instead of it being part of an attack action.
re
I'm playing a Magus in Legacy of Fire, and its great.Sure, I ave other Swift actions, but a lot of those require Arcane Point expenditure. AS is a great 'always on' for when I need to save those points for other things.
