Knife Master using the Handle


Rules Questions


Would a Knife Master using the butt of the knife to strike with a sneak attack still deal D8s or D4s?


Why is he using the butt of the dagger?


If he is trying to do nonlethal damage with it I think, by RAW, yes.


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Technically I think that would be an improvised weapon, -4 to attack and d4 for sneak attack damage.

On the other hand he could do non-lethal damage with the blade, still a -4 penalty to hit but d8 sneak attack damage.

I'd allow attacking with the butt of the knife with d8 sneak attack damage just for roleplaying color.

Sczarni

Technically even a novice knife fighter would be trained with using the pommel and or side of the blade to do non lethal damage when someone was needed alive.


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Nope. Can't non-lethally sneak attack with a lethal weapon. Even with the -4. Read the sneak attack ability.


1. Two-Weapon Fighting, Catch-Off Guard
2. Rogue Talent: Combat Trick - Bludgeoner
3. Sap Adept
4. Rogue Talent: Surprise Attack
5. Sap Master

I was thinking of a character that twirled his daggers and taunted his opponents by switching between the handle and the blade. Eventually I would give the rogue Shatter Defenses.


Ryuko wrote:
Nope. Can't non-lethally sneak attack with a lethal weapon. Even with the -4. Read the sneak attack ability.

We have a winner.

I guess he could use the pommel to deal B damage to a skelly or some such?


Isn't there a feat that lets you deal non-lethal sneak attack when using a lethal weapon to deal non-lethal damage?


Rogues are proficient with Saps for a reason, I imagine.

And to deal lethal, clubs are free


Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
Isn't there a feat that lets you deal non-lethal sneak attack when using a lethal weapon to deal non-lethal damage?

That's his bludgeoner feat, but it only works with bludgeoning weapons.

He's trying to use a slashing weapon to deal bludgeoning damage with the pommel, so he can get the bonus damage for using a dagger-like-blade and the bonuses for using a nonlethal weapon. Which doesn't work.

What would help is the merciful enchantment, which gives +1d6 damage and converts all damage to non-lethal. It's like a rogue with sap master bribed a wizard to research a new enchantment.


Sap Adept also requires a bludgeoning weapon, so Merciful will not work either. I had looked into that a while ago too.


What I was thinking was that Catch-Off Guard would make the Dagger a bludgeoning weapon, but I guess I need a single level Monk of the Empty Hand in order to do it.


Fastmover wrote:

What I was thinking was that Catch-Off Guard would make the Dagger a bludgeoning weapon, but I guess I need a single level Monk of the Empty Hand in order to do it.

It probably would, but if this was my game I'd say you lose the benefit of the Knife Master archetype then, cause you're essentially using a club.

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