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When all you are offering is doomsday prophecies, I'm afraid I can't believe you are seeing something I'm not.
What kind of dystopia would the world be if all we had was the lowest common denominator version of everything?
It's not a doomsday prophecy, it's an extreme analogy meant to convey a general sense of what I'm talking about in terms that everyone can understand.
Anyhow, I otherwise agree with your sentiment. If people wonder why the hobby has grown in recent years, I think a big part of it is (slight) increase in openness of the community.
That's just the opposite of what I'm seeing. I've seen the rise of an ordered, conformist culture that wasn't there before and is far less open to different ways of speaking and thinking.
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You can shout No Items, Fox Only, Final Destination all you want,Totally off topic just to lighten the mood a bit:
Fox Only?
I've been out of the video-game loop for about five years, and even then I was doing more consolidation of older game collections than getting new releases, and it's really late at night here, but what's that one mean? I'm pretty sure No Items and Final Destination are what many 'hardcore' SSB players would say (well, if it was SSBM or later, since IIRC you couldn't select Final Destination in multiplayer in the original), but I can't for the life of me remember what an Elitist Gamer would mean by 'Fox Only'. Maybe it's a new Elitist phrase (new as in less than five years old), or maybe I didn't meet the correct elitist gamers, or maybe I'm just tired, so...what does it mean?!?
:)Anyhow, I otherwise agree with your sentiment. If people wonder why the hobby has grown in recent years, I think a big part of it is (slight) increase in openness of the community.
It's from Melee; it refers to only playing Starfox (because of an exploit called wavedashing). ^_^
Hm, I may have confused you with someone else. I remember reading your thread from a year ago and connecting "Thinks Bards are stupid" with your name, but the one I was thinking of was like a 5000 word dissertation on why the Bard is a stupid class that never should have existed.
That might have been me? But I doubt it. 5000 words seems way too ambitious for anything I would have posted. :)
I just don't care if the bard is humming or farting during combat. Unless the pure "presence" of the Bard is all it takes, I think it's stupid.
If you like the Bard, I give zero craps- rock on. I'm posting that I don't like the Bard here, because I understood this was the place for posting unpopular opinions.
If it makes you feel better, I am an AWFUL person for not like the Bard.
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I'm aware of this distinction, and I still stand by what I said about IHIYC.
Him and a few others around here have gotten it into their heads that the way they play is both the best way, and the only CORRECT way to play, and anybody who plays differently is actively contributing to the slow torturous death of the RPG.
That is being an elitist, in the politest terms.
That's 100% false, and I even bothered to say so.
Here's an idea: Why don't you read the WHOLE of what I say, and try to understand it in a new and different way that recognizes that it comes from a mind that works differently from yours, and might actually expand your mind, rather than just the few parts and narrow interpretations that corroborate your prejudices? Remember when I called you closed-minded? This is the kind of crap I'm talking about.
Come back when you can define "closed-minded" as something other than "doesn't agree with me =(".
I read everything you wrote, thought about it, and dismissed it.
A lot of people over the years have claimed to "see something others just can't get" and lament that not many people seem to share their viewpoint.
Sometimes they are visionaries.
More often, they have an overly inflated ego, and very much over-value their own opinion.
Classic signs of this are using phrases such as "You're younger than me? You don't have a f!&+ing clue!" without anything actually concrete to back up their vaguely defined opinion that "Everybody just doesn't get it, man, I don't understand why people won't see it MY way".
Using terms like "cultural hivemind that makes gaming less fun" (which sounds like a fancy way to say "Wake up sheeple! See the truth!") doesn't help your case either.
If you want to explain your actual viewpoint, go ahead. Up to now all you've said is that "You understand something others don't", and the last time I heard that was from some homeless man on the bus, so I'm going to take it with a whole shaker full of salt.
But what would be even better is if you'd look at how ridiculous you sound.
"Cultural hivemind?" Seriously?
You constantly imply (read: outright state) that just about everybody but you is blind, and they're not seeing what's REALLY IMPORTANT. Have you ever stopped to think that maybe, just MAYBE the things YOU find important are not important to other people? Or not AS important?
No, of course you have. Silly question. You've commented that you do actually understand this fact.
But rather than contemplating that fact and reflecting on it you've decided that you, alone, are the sole voice of reason in this entire universe who really UNDERSTANDS what it's all about. You're the shepherd who will lead all of us poor schmucks inside the museum of your infinite wisdom, and show everyone what it's REALLY all about, and if you could just get people to LISTEN, and SEE, and really UNDERSTAND everything that you do they will come to agree with you, and you'll be the savior of the hobby and everything will be sunshine and roses forever just as it was in the days of yore when people really did things right, and had the creativity, intelligence, and maturity to do things exactly as you think they should.
You know what an open-minded person would do? Explain their position (in detail), and explain the merits of it, in full understanding that said position is only one of several, and that while said position is best for them, and certainly a right and proper way of doing things, it is not the ONLY right and proper way to do things, and that maybe other people have various right and proper ways of their own that they're quite happy with, thanks.
And maybe, with your position explained rationally and in detail, some people would say "Yeah, let's give that a shot, we might like it better" instead of instinctively cringing away from someone who has such blatant scorn for everyone who disagrees, or simply "doesn't see" what they're talking about, and belittles and insults and makes up catchy buzzwords like "cultural hivemind" to adequately express their deep loathing for the idea that not everyone does things the way they do, not everyone WANTS to do things the way they do, and not everyone SHOULD want to do things the way they do.
But that could never happen. Could it?
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Hm, I may have confused you with someone else. I remember reading your thread from a year ago and connecting "Thinks Bards are stupid" with your name, but the one I was thinking of was like a 5000 word dissertation on why the Bard is a stupid class that never should have existed.
That might have been me? But I doubt it. 5000 words seems way too ambitious for anything I would have posted. :)
I just don't care if the bard is humming or farting during combat. Unless the pure "presence" of the Bard is all it takes, I think it's stupid.
If you like the Bard, I give zero craps- rock on. I'm posting that I don't like the Bard here, because I understood this was the place for posting unpopular opinions.
If it makes you feel better, I am an AWFUL person for not like the Bard.
You're a monster.
<3
You can shout No Items, Fox Only, Final Destination all you want,Totally off topic just to lighten the mood a bit:
Fox Only?
I've been out of the video-game loop for about five years, and even then I was doing more consolidation of older game collections than getting new releases, and it's really late at night here, but what's that one mean? I'm pretty sure No Items and Final Destination are what many 'hardcore' SSB players would say (well, if it was SSBM or later, since IIRC you couldn't select Final Destination in multiplayer in the original), but I can't for the life of me remember what an Elitist Gamer would mean by 'Fox Only'. Maybe it's a new Elitist phrase (new as in less than five years old), or maybe I didn't meet the correct elitist gamers, or maybe I'm just tired, so...what does it mean?!?
:)Anyhow, I otherwise agree with your sentiment. If people wonder why the hobby has grown in recent years, I think a big part of it is (slight) increase in openness of the community.
Fox (and Falco) are generally accepted to be the characters that A.) Require the most skill and B.) are the most "vanilla".
They're the top tier (of the allowed) characters, and the "pro" characters.
It's just become memetic since the Melee comp scene was basically a bunch of fights of Fox vs Fox on Final Destination (nothing fancy, no hazards, no map changes, etc.) and no items (can't have any variables other than pure skillz getting in the way).
Hm, I may have confused you with someone else. I remember reading your thread from a year ago and connecting "Thinks Bards are stupid" with your name, but the one I was thinking of was like a 5000 word dissertation on why the Bard is a stupid class that never should have existed.
That might have been me? But I doubt it. 5000 words seems way too ambitious for anything I would have posted. :)
I just don't care if the bard is humming or farting during combat. Unless the pure "presence" of the Bard is all it takes, I think it's stupid.
If you like the Bard, I give zero craps- rock on. I'm posting that I don't like the Bard here, because I understood this was the place for posting unpopular opinions.
If it makes you feel better, I am an AWFUL person for not like the Bard.
I'm actually not the biggest fan of Bards myself (as far as playing them goes), and you can feel free to dislike them all you want, but the "they don't make sense" thing I see a lot just doesn't make sense to ME, since it's just another form of magic.
And no, it wasn't you. I went back to check. You barely cracked 200 words it looked like. =)
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If I cracked 200 coherent words, I am impressed with myself! :)
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Musicians in armies have been a thing, for a very long time. One reason being humans have such fluctuating morale and we are easily emotionally affected.But a group of four or five PCs, is not an army. If it's song, dance, or oratory, it is ridiculous in the middle of combat. I'd be pissed if a member of my party was reciting poetry while I was chopping off heads. I think it's dumb that the poetry made my balls bigger in combat, and gave me buffs that are purely based on mechanics - it's silly.
It's fine if the Bard's performance had some influence on a crowd in a tavern- that makes sense.But... that's just my confession- I hate the Bard- I get that many don't agree. In this case I am the odd-one! :) The Bard is SILLY to me.
Capoeira mixes dancing into a martial art. Muhammad Ali mixed dancing into his best fights (to taunt, because it worked!). This went on to influence other boxers and ring fighters. Historical duelists of the French nobility were also trained in and influenced by dancing (it paired well with the smallsword and its emphasis on footwork), yes including the very lethal ones like Chevalier D'Andrieu (that guy killed tens of fighters in duels, see Braudy 2005). The Maori are famous for being brutal infantry capable of defeating the British army many tech levels above them, and they are also famous for their haka dance (which they still perform before matches in sports).
You may have a very serious & stern view on what fighting is and involves, but real fighters have already pushed the boundaries by including dancing in and before combat.
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There have always been, but the numbers are not the same. PF really has gone to the dogs, and in this case the dogs are the packs of players obsessed with ever increasing numbers (to hit, ac, save and hp fixation), powergaming via ever-stronger builds and the tactical challenge where the tactical challenge is novaing battles as fast as possible (or they will call you sh*te and say you are doing it wrong). By gone to them I mean they have a very strong presence now, and given what we can observe online, they certainly aren't weakening. I don't buy there is no change to gamers and that it is just the same as it always was. Fantasy games now are not the same as early fantasy, the rules and systems can be very heavy and more suited to this newly powerful crowd. What I think I'm hiding in your closet is grappling with are the uncreative build-and-calculate crowd over less stat, ability and item obsessed roleplayers. That many players want to craft and fill all their slots shows a direction of sameness and it is as dull as a dead doormouse not even worth 1 xp.
We could look to the language and the terms that have become really common to see the changes. Then consider what type of games the language is facilitating, and what is being left far far behind.
Clearly I'm hiding in your closet has won the thread, because what he has said has led to people try to chastise and shun him and his ideas. He wins!
Alas he has also taken this a touch too seriously and got defensive. I thought this was meant to be a satirical thread, weird to see it get so serious from multiple participants.
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Come on: It's never enough to have an opinion; one must also crush someone beneath it, or the day has been wasted.
The world would be a much better place if so many people would just stop being wrong about things.
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Personally, I feel like more and more players are stuck thinking inside the limits that get imposed on them in computer RPGs, even though the advantage of pnp is the lack of such limits.
Nothing wrong with enjoying that style, but it does feel dumbed down sometimes, when people show creativity by doing old things in new combos rather than trying to do new things. I.E. in one game as a cleric in a prison game, we were faced with a lich well above our level. I asked the GM if I could "put all of myself into an attack of positive energy with no holding back, no thought of surviving it." He actually let me attempt it, and all the other players were doubly amazed not only that I tried it, but that I was allowed to try something outside the clearly defined abilities. (The lich unfortunately had 3 HP remaining. I rolled and managed to avoid death.)
I think the other players shouldn't be surprised by such things, even if it isn't their way to play. The fact that I rarely find a player that even attempts anything similar is sad.
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Personally, I feel like more and more players are stuck thinking inside the limits that get imposed on them in computer RPGs, even though the advantage of pnp is the lack of such limits.
Nothing wrong with enjoying that style, but it does feel dumbed down sometimes, when people show creativity by doing old things in new combos rather than trying to do new things. I.E. in one game as a cleric in a prison game, we were faced with a lich well above our level. I asked the GM if I could "put all of myself into an attack of positive energy with no holding back, no thought of surviving it." He actually let me attempt it, and all the other players were doubly amazed not only that I tried it, but that I was allowed to try something outside the clearly defined abilities. (The lich unfortunately had 3 HP remaining. I rolled and managed to avoid death.)
I think the other players shouldn't be surprised by such things, even if it isn't their way to play. The fact that I rarely find a player that even attempts anything similar is sad.
Completely agree. ^_^
@ Joe hex
So is it the fluff or the mechanics you hate about bards? Have you seen anyone break the bard stereotype? If so, what did you think? If not, have considered whether the stereotype is what you dislike rather than the class itself?
(to note, I've played bards that weren't the bard class, and I've played those of the bard class who weren't bards and didn't even use most of the class abilities. So I'm curious how you feel about those things.)
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@ Joe hex
So is it the fluff or the mechanics you hate about bards? Have you seen anyone break the bard stereotype? If so, what did you think? If not, have considered whether the stereotype is what you dislike rather than the class itself?
(to note, I've played bards that weren't the bard class, and I've played those of the bard class who weren't bards and didn't even use most of the class abilities. So I'm curious how you feel about those things.)
Why can't you just let the guy dislike bards? There is really no need to understand it so he can be corrected. I think he's been subjected to "here's why you're wrong" enough already.
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Actually, I've got no idea which particular brand of "gaming is serious" he's for. He may be full on for the powergaming via ever-stronger builds and the tactical challenge crowd as far as I know.
I'm not for "gaming is serious," I'm for "gaming is a celebration of the imagination, and there's no place in it for those who hold it in contempt" - which is what I've actually experienced, and it's been heartbreaking. That's where I'm coming from. We all deserve a place in the world to call our own, even if it's not "in this world," and my experiences with gaming over the course of the past 12 years - the worst years of my life, when I've needed a private haven more than ever - have left me with the sensation of being edged out of mine. Maybe it's bad luck with where I've tried playing (my opportunities have been poor) and overfixation on the supposed threat of creeping language conformity. I have severe OCD and am something of a self-taught linguist, so I'm sensitive to the threat that that can pose to diversity of thought, and I may well be overestimating it. I want to be. I base my observations on changes I've seen in a specific time-frame - if people older than I can agree that the changes aren't actually anything special, then I that's just what I want to hear.
It's cruelly ironic that I'm being accused of dogmatism - I just want to be able to be myself and be appreciated for what I have to offer, but my experience in practice has featured too many occasions of actually being punished for being creative and different. There's also the matter of realizing that when you're playing with other people, it's hard to play to your fullest potential if others aren't doing that along with you, so it needs to be a system of pulling each other upward rather than dragging each other down.
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Why can't you just let the guy dislike bards? There is really no need to understand it so he can be corrected. I think he's been subjected to "here's why you're wrong" enough already.@ Joe hex
So is it the fluff or the mechanics you hate about bards? Have you seen anyone break the bard stereotype? If so, what did you think? If not, have considered whether the stereotype is what you dislike rather than the class itself?
(to note, I've played bards that weren't the bard class, and I've played those of the bard class who weren't bards and didn't even use most of the class abilities. So I'm curious how you feel about those things.)
I wasn't trying to correct him, as there is nothing to correct, but I am curious as his statements thus far could mean either way and so I have no idea if he means bards the stereotype, bards the class mechanics, or bards the folks who go around putting on shows and cons to make a living. They are all entirely different things even though they often come together.
Being curious and wanting to know doesn't equal wanting to correct someone.
I suspect Hiding in Closet is talking about the shift in how players express creativity and follow the limits naturally imposed by computers even when those limits need not apply. You can not ask a computer for a feat that doesn't exist, or to negotiate a modification so a class better fits your character concept. This facet mixed with a few other things leads to players showing their creativity within those limits of the virtual world, and that develops into habit which tends to carry over into the pnp world if gaming.
To some, this new creativity, due to the limits it follows, seems less creative and less expressive, and less accepting of older style creative thinking.
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I suspect Hiding in Closet is talking about the shift in how players express creativity and follow the limits naturally imposed by computers even when those limits need not apply. You can not ask a computer for a feat that doesn't exist, or to negotiate a modification so a class better fits your character concept. This facet mixed with a few other things leads to players showing their creativity within those limits of the virtual world, and that develops into habit which tends to carry over into the pnp world if gaming.
To some, this new creativity, due to the limits it follows, seems less creative and less expressive, and less accepting of older style creative thinking.
Especially in the era of ubiquitous computers, pen-and-paper gaming should be where we DON'T think like that; the limitless potential that tabletop gaming has over computer games is precisely what's going to keep it relevant. My background's in computer games, and I got into actual D&D by way of Baldur's Gate, Planescape: Torment, and the rest, so why would I want to bother with tabletop gaming except to be able to do all the things I can't do in a computer game?
Okay, another confession:
I don't think bacon's anything special.
The term "build" used in reference to characters makes me want to punch someone in the face.
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The term "build" used in reference to characters makes me want to punch someone in the face.
What word would you prefer to use that describes the mechanical choices a player makes when filling out a character sheet?
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I hate Imagine by John Lennon. Worst song in the world.I have to respond to this: WTF?
"Achey Breaky Heart"
Barney's "I Love You" song
"Who Let The Dogs Out?"
"MacArthur Park"
"Friday"
anything the result of an American Idol winner
some hip-hop song I was once forced to listen to where the main lyric was "I've got hos" over and over
"Worst song in the world" is a hotly contested title, and that's just not one of the contenters.
I find most of those songs unpleasant to listen to. They do make me want to turn off the music or just go do something else.
But none of them incites the frothing rage and dislike that Imagine does in me.
Something about that song just stirs up a deep well of anger and spite that normally I don't even know exists.
It's not the tune because I've heard/read filks of the song using the melody and had no problems, so it's got to be something in the lyrics.
Sounds like Orthos needs to hug a tree, or maybe Imagine all the people holding hands :-)
-_-
It's not the tune because I've heard/read filks of the song using the melody and had no problems, so it's got to be something in the lyrics.
You aren't perchance an escapee from a totalitarian communist regime, are you? Or a libertarian? ;)
I actually hated Imagine when I was a kid...it was something about the tune/melody/whatever. But at some point I started loving it, the way that most people go from hating to loving onions. Which I still can't stand, despite enjoying onion flavor.
*shrug*
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I find most of those songs unpleasant to listen to. They do make me want to turn off the music or just go do something else.But none of them incites the frothing rage and dislike that Imagine does in me.
Something about that song just stirs up a deep well of anger and spite that normally I don't even know exists.
It's not the tune because I've heard/read filks of the song using the melody and had no problems, so it's got to be something in the lyrics.
Try playing it backward, maybe there's a secret subliminal message.
Seriously, that's...unsettling. Especially if it's the lyrics. It's as hate-free a song as has ever been written.
It's not the tune because I've heard/read filks of the song using the melody and had no problems, so it's got to be something in the lyrics.You aren't perchance an escapee from a totalitarian communist regime, are you? Or a libertarian? ;)
If I absolutely had to apply some kind of political label to myself, libertarian would probably be the closest I know of. Mostly I'm apolitical - I can't stand either of the parties, I don't vote, and I avoid the majority of political discussions and news like a particularly virulent plague.
**Watches things fly off the rails**
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If I absolutely had to apply some kind of political label to myself, libertarian would probably be the closest I know of. Mostly I'm apolitical - I can't stand either of the parties, I don't vote, and I avoid the majority of political discussions and news like a particularly virulent plague.It's not the tune because I've heard/read filks of the song using the melody and had no problems, so it's got to be something in the lyrics.You aren't perchance an escapee from a totalitarian communist regime, are you? Or a libertarian? ;)
But, We all shine on! Like the Moon, the Stars and the Sun :-)
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The term "build" used in reference to characters makes me want to punch someone in the face.What word would you prefer to use that describes the mechanical choices a player makes when filling out a character sheet?
I'd rather the game not be mechanically complex enough to necessitate a term. I certainly never heard of "builds" before 3E. What amounts to a separate character-building game simply doesn't appeal to me.
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Personally, I feel like more and more players are stuck thinking inside the limits that get imposed on them in computer RPGs, even though the advantage of pnp is the lack of such limits.
Nothing wrong with enjoying that style, but it does feel dumbed down sometimes, when people show creativity by doing old things in new combos rather than trying to do new things. I.E. in one game as a cleric in a prison game, we were faced with a lich well above our level. I asked the GM if I could "put all of myself into an attack of positive energy with no holding back, no thought of surviving it." He actually let me attempt it, and all the other players were doubly amazed not only that I tried it, but that I was allowed to try something outside the clearly defined abilities. (The lich unfortunately had 3 HP remaining. I rolled and managed to avoid death.)
I think the other players shouldn't be surprised by such things, even if it isn't their way to play. The fact that I rarely find a player that even attempts anything similar is sad.
I agree. I think some of this comes from the fact that 3.x/PFRPG is such a codified system. The answer to so many cool things that a player might try to do defaults to "You COULD try that if you had the right feat (and it's half a dozen prerequisite feats)." Eventually, players just settle into pre-defined actions, and don't really bother to try to play creatively anymore, since doing so often seems to be fighting the system.
It's one reason I find the accusation that more rules-light games are "dumbed-down" to be both ridiculous and annoying. If anything, rules-lighter games are the more mature and sophisticated games. It's certainly the direction the hobby has been drifting for the past few years.
If I absolutely had to apply some kind of political label to myself, libertarian would probably be the closest I know of. Mostly I'm apolitical - I can't stand either of the parties, I don't vote, and I avoid the majority of political discussions and news like a particularly virulent plague.It's not the tune because I've heard/read filks of the song using the melody and had no problems, so it's got to be something in the lyrics.You aren't perchance an escapee from a totalitarian communist regime, are you? Or a libertarian? ;)
If you're of the libertarian bent, this might be what you don't like:
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world
Of course, now that I'm rereading the full lyrics, there are other themes that I'm sure plenty of folks object to. There's the anti-religious theme to offend religious folks, and the 'no countries' theme to offend extreme patriots and racists who want to 'Keep those people out of our country!'
Anyhow, this is running the risk of straying deep into the political, so I think I'll stop here.
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I've heard that such a separate character-building game did manifest in 2E in a more limited form, particularly towards the end of its run.I'd rather the game not be mechanically complex enough to necessitate a term. I certainly never heard of "builds" before 3E. What amounts to a separate character-building game simply doesn't appeal to me.The term "build" used in reference to characters makes me want to punch someone in the face.What word would you prefer to use that describes the mechanical choices a player makes when filling out a character sheet?
Somewhat, for some groups, but it never really overshadowed the actual adventuring like it tends to with 3.x/PFRPG.
I've heard that such a separate character-building game did manifest in 2E in a more limited form, particularly towards the end of its run.I'd rather the game not be mechanically complex enough to necessitate a term. I certainly never heard of "builds" before 3E. What amounts to a separate character-building game simply doesn't appeal to me.The term "build" used in reference to characters makes me want to punch someone in the face.What word would you prefer to use that describes the mechanical choices a player makes when filling out a character sheet?
Skills and Powers had rules for extreme character custimization - pretty much an entire book of "build your own class" rules.
I made a wizard that only had 4 schools of magic (Orcus couldn't cast divination either! I stood in good company!) but, among other things, got a +1d4 bonus to his caster level every time he cast a spell.
I don't remember what other funky stuff I had going on, because that was like 15 years ago. Heh.
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I've heard that such a separate character-building game did manifest in 2E in a more limited form, particularly towards the end of its run.
Quite possibly. I had moved on to other systems by that point. Ironically, I was mostly playing Hero -- pretty much the ultimate in build-a-character games -- which I preferred for it's internal consistency. Of course, at the time I still thought simulation was a thing; now I wouldn't touch Hero with a 10ft pole.
Just goes to show how tastes change, I guess.
Skills and Powers had rules for extreme character custimization - pretty much an entire book of "build your own class" rules.
I made a wizard that only had 4 schools of magic (Orcus couldn't cast divination either! I stood in good company!) but, among other things, got a +1d4 bonus to his caster level every time he cast a spell.
I don't remember what other funky stuff I had going on, because that was like 15 years ago. Heh.
I absolutely loved Skills and Powers, despite the complete brokenness of it.. lol. I wish we had a way to build characters like that with PF, but in a much more balanced way. I've seen a few homebrew rules sets for it, but haven't used them because my players weren't interested.
Skills and Powers had rules for extreme character custimization - pretty much an entire book of "build your own class" rules.
Although I can see how the Skills and Powers rules of 2e had concepts to lead towards a next edition, but I never cared for the Skills and Powers book, never incorporated them into my 2e game, and actually felt the rules failed for me.
I can see and agree with Bugleyman's point of view.
I absolutely loved Skills and Powers, despite the complete brokenness of it.. lol. I wish we had a way to build characters like that with PF, but in a much more balanced way. I've seen a few homebrew rules sets for it, but haven't used them because my players weren't interested.Skills and Powers had rules for extreme character custimization - pretty much an entire book of "build your own class" rules.
I made a wizard that only had 4 schools of magic (Orcus couldn't cast divination either! I stood in good company!) but, among other things, got a +1d4 bonus to his caster level every time he cast a spell.
I don't remember what other funky stuff I had going on, because that was like 15 years ago. Heh.
I would love that as well. I do have one I use for anime based games I run from time to time, balance can be an issue with it though your players have to be mature enough to not min max simply because they can.
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If I absolutely had to apply some kind of political label to myself, libertarian would probably be the closest I know of. Mostly I'm apolitical - I can't stand either of the parties, I don't vote, and I avoid the majority of political discussions and news like a particularly virulent plague.It's not the tune because I've heard/read filks of the song using the melody and had no problems, so it's got to be something in the lyrics.You aren't perchance an escapee from a totalitarian communist regime, are you? Or a libertarian? ;)If you're of the libertarian bent, this might be what you don't like:
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world
Of course, now that I'm rereading the full lyrics, there are other themes that I'm sure plenty of folks object to. There's the anti-religious theme to offend religious folks, and the 'no countries' theme to offend extreme patriots and racists who want to 'Keep those people out of our country!'
Anyhow, this is running the risk of straying deep into the political, so I think I'll stop here.
To defuse the political aspects, maybe people aren't "offended" by any particular message, but just don't like that touchy-feely hippy dippy crap?
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I have no interest at all in Occult Adventures, and I'm having a hard time seeing the purpose of the product. Superficially it seems like an attempt to gather that sweet, sweet Psionics money, but that can't really be the point since the primary reason most people like Psionics is the manifesting mechanics, not the flavor of crystals, spoopy monsters, and object reading.
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Oh, to actually contribute to the theme of the thread -
I've played and enjoyed playing fighters and rogues in high level play.
And I'm usually left scratching my head when someone on these boards denounces either class as unplayable.