#5-03, Hellknight's feast GM Discussion [Spoilers]


GM Discussion

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Dark Archive 3/5

Since I don't see another GM thread regarding this adventure I thought I'd start one.
While prepping this for an upcoming con the inevitable questions about interactions and tactics have popped up.

Question #1

Spoiler:
Samivashti in the high tier has a pair of vampiric gloves and I'm trying to figure out why. She has Vampiric touch at 12th level (6D6 damage) as an at-will ability but the gloves are at 5th level (only 2D6 damage) so I can't see any time she'd ever use this item. Unless this can stack with her own vampiric touch ability for 8D6 damage it's pointless.

Yes I know it can be used at range but only against a target that's already bleeding. This means she would have to have already attacked this target and gotten a sneak attack off THEN the target managed to get away AND only go less than 30 feet away AND managed to get to a spot where it's too risky for her to not simply walk up and and smack them with a 6D6 touch instead AND not be so risky that a dominate monster or suggestion or charm monster isn't a better use of a standard action.
What are we supposed to use these gloves for?

Question #2

Spoiler:
Samivashti has improved unarmed strike but her unarmed attacks aren't in her stat block. Since this feat allows her to mix her natural attacks (at +13/+13 @ 1D6) with her unarmed strikes at +18/+13/+8 for 1d2+1 +Sneak Attack it could be a big deal. Especially if she throws in the above mentioned Vampiric Touch.
Is it intentional that the unarmed strikes aren't listed or is it a misprint like the the scenario title (Waking Rune)?

Question #3

Spoiler:

3D6 points of constitution drain a round PLUS 1D4 minutes of paralysis makes for a vicious combat but the Mohrg opens up a complicated question.
This creature is allowed to make 2 grapple checks a round. What happens if both checks succeed? Can it pin a target in one round like the greater grapple feat or does it just waste the extra successful grapple check?
I'm inclined to consider it wasted but it's a question I've never been really clear on since the grapple rules are kind of a mess.

Overall I like the scenario but the combats are either going to be more lethal then expected or just bog down the story. Can't wait to find out.

For those of you who ran/played it at gencon what were your experiences with it?

Dark Archive

This post is directed at you, John Compton!

Since Samivashti has so many opportunities for escape, I would like to see her again in a future scenario. I think she would make for a great recurring villain. In the number of times that I have run this scenario and seen it run, she has escaped a majority of the time. This may not be so overall, but if she does typically escape, could we see her again?

Sovereign Court 2/5

She does have a ton of opportunitys to escape and her stat block is amazing! It would be very cool to see her later in the season. It would be a shame to see such a cool villain not pop up again. (Hint hint wink wink)
It would be interesting to see the amount of escapes and kills compared. The table I ran yesterday wiped the floor with her in 4 rounds.

Also the adventure was fun to run, I am looking forward to running it again if I have the chance.

Liberty's Edge 2/5 5/5 *****

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps, Rulebook, Starfinder Maps Subscriber

She has no close combat weapon except her natural weapons. And natural weapons and unarmed strikes are two different things. This might become a problem if she had a melee weapon.

5/5

I've seen a couple of reviews stating GM's did this, and I just played this scenario this past weekend and encountered it myself, please note that Bluff and Diplomacy can be used for EVERY person needing influenced. It should not just be the skill mentioned in the stat block.

Scenario wrote:
Whenever the scenario allows the PCs to attempt an Influence check, the character may select one NPC in attendance to try to influence. Each PC can attempt a Bluff check (to pretend to be friendly), a Diplomacy check (to be genuine), or a skill check mentioned in the NPC’s social stat block.

At the table, my bard had most of the skills mentioned in the NPC's social stat, but we had 2 other very high diplomacy characters at the table that were disappointed at not being able to utilize their skill to influence the NPC's.

The game was a lot of fun, and I really enjoyed it. I just know from comments of the players at the table they felt marginalized by this misunderstanding.

5/5 5/55/55/5

Ok, planning on trying to run this for my group of online munchkins. This was a quick read through at 3 am so don't jump down my throat if i missed something.

Samivashti has a ring of mind shielding. The rest of the demons will show up like beacons when someone casts "Detect evil" .. which is the first thing I'd be doing at a party like this. I suppose that moves the adventure from mingle mingle kill demons mingle at -2 to kill demons mingle at -2 mingle at -2.

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, 2011 Top 32, 2012 Top 4

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Samivashti has a ring of mind shielding. The rest of the demons will show up like beacons when someone casts "Detect evil" .. which is the first thing I'd be doing at a party like this.

Spoiler:
Samivashti is the only demon that mingles with the party goers. Her dandasuka companion is assumed to have infiltrated the manor at some point (to help murder the servants), but even he doesn't join the main party. Her alu-demon daughters don't mingle either. In fact, they only enter the manor (via dimension door) when Samivasthi sends them to ambush the PCs in the optional encounter.

Samivashti has charmed several servants and guards though (which is eventually noticed by Major Maldris) ... and the PCs might detect her enchantments.

4/5

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BigNorseWolf wrote:

Ok, planning on trying to run this for my group of online munchkins. This was a quick read through at 3 am so don't jump down my throat if i missed something.

Samivashti has a ring of mind shielding. The rest of the demons will show up like beacons when someone casts "Detect evil" .. which is the first thing I'd be doing at a party like this. I suppose that moves the adventure from mingle mingle kill demons mingle at -2 to kill demons mingle at -2 mingle at -2.

Tom's right, but if they're really munchkins, they'll just use the new spell detect demons and the same thing will happen.

The difficult thing about new books that have spells like detect demons in PFS is that they turn out to unbalance things in the same way as a transplanted animal that arrives in an environment where it has no natural predators (like the cane toad in Australia)--ring of mind shielding and a bunch of other abilities should (either logically or for balance purposes or both) defend against this new 1st-level spell, but they don't because the defenses were written before the new spell existed and the author of the new spell never has enough wordcount to retcon in that the new spell is blocked by the old effects.

In a home game, the GM can just make the ring block the spell, and you're fine. I was recently talking to a friend about this spell and how it ruined succubus infiltration situations in particular most of all, humorously oblivious to the fact that I wasn't just talking about a hypothetical until I started prepping this scenario for next Sunday.

5/5 5/55/55/5

Well that solves my bigger concern. Thanks

A lesser concern is what if the party is smart enough to try to knowledge: local or diplomacy to gather info on the guests ahead of time? They have 24 hours to prepare and this is the first thing I'd do. Does that essentially get them free investigate checks?

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East

I let them do checks beforehand to get the information provided on the portrait handouts in the shared prep folder.

1/5

I have a question, and I'm specifically not reading the thread to avoid spoilers, so I don't know if this was answered, but a search for Take 10 in the thread came up empty.

Our GM thinks that the scenario does not allow players to Take 10 during the during the social skill checks. He's telling us that we have moved to "initiative rounds" and that is why we can't Take 10. Admittedly, I'm not understanding what this means. Can someone clarify? Please do not include any spoiler information.

Thanks.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ***

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Take 10 doesn't stop by definition because you are in initiative. Take 10 doesn't work when you are in immediate danger or distracted. Usually, this correlates with being in initiative, but not always. There's no way in the social skill checks that you are in immediate danger or distracted, so taking 10 should be allowed.

1/5

So is there something in the scenario that equates to being distracted during the social gathering at the beginning?

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ***

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Not that I'm aware of.

Liberty's Edge 2/5 *

There is not. What Im guessing he is doing is trying to make sure the skill diplomancer in the party has a chance of failure by not letting him take a 10. This just affects everyone else too.

5/5 5/55/55/5

Matthew Pittard wrote:
There is not. What Im guessing he is doing is trying to make sure the skill diplomancer in the party has a chance of failure by not letting him take a 10. This just affects everyone else too.

Well, considering that one of the serving maids is succubus going around mind reading and charming people you could make a case for the immediate danger clause.

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Played this Saturday night; it was pretty cool.

Definitely rewarded my cleric's versatility:
Didn't take a point of damage.
Converted two of the guests myself (one of them requiring two successes).
Cleared some CON drain and a negative level from the inquisitor and a dominate from the alchemist.
Tore through the boss's SR like it wasn't there (succeeded on a 2).
Nuked the crap out of some undead.
Got the bard out of a dangerous grapple.

Interestingly, even after all that, I still felt kind of lame and small when the inquisitor (same one I cured later) was laying out uber damage in the last fight. For a while I forgot about all the stuff I rocked at (including spell damage!) and only thought about how (comparatively) little damage I was dealing with my weapon.

That's something I'll be musing on for a while.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ***

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Matthew Pittard wrote:
There is not. What Im guessing he is doing is trying to make sure the skill diplomancer in the party has a chance of failure by not letting him take a 10. This just affects everyone else too.

Well, considering that one of the serving maids is succubus going around mind reading and charming people you could make a case for the immediate danger clause.

There's no way the PCs know they're in danger and they aren't being attacked during social aspect of the scenario. There is no reason why the PCs, even the diplomancer, should not be allowed to take 10. And to be honest, this is the time where you should let the diplomancer feel successful and be awesome with his taking 10. He's dealing with the movers and shakers of Absalom! As long as good roleplaying is going on, who cares if the PCs stomp all the diplomacy DCs while taking 10?

Sovereign Court 1/5

Mark Seifter wrote:
The difficult thing about new books that have spells like detect demons in PFS is that they turn out to unbalance things...

No spells from the Demon Hunter's Handbook are legal.

Liberty's Edge 2/5 *

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James: exactly!. In fact Ill go a step further. If you stop the diplomancer or anyone else from taking a 10 at this point, you are basically saying 'Something isnt right here'. Players tend to freak out when they are told they cannot do something. You are likely to start 'Paranoia Protocol' where they start detecting, percepting etc up close and personal.

Basically the very thing you are trying to stop will cause an adverse reaction where the characters start to do strange things.

3/5 RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

Well, I played this last weekend, and things didn't go so well. We were rocking the influence checks, because we had two or three Diplomancers in the group. Then we rocked the fight in the cellar, because we were rolling insane on all the Fort saves (not a single failure) and channeling positive energy really helps for fights like that.

Then came the succubus.

It turns out that 2 of our 5 party members had only +5 on the their Will saves at level 9, and no clear spindle ioun stone. So after a few rounds, our Fighter/Rogue was dominated, the Ninja and the druid's pet dinosaur were charmed*, and the druid was dead. At that point, there wasn't anything I could do, so my cleric grabbed Ezren and the charmed Ninja and teleported back to the Grand Lodge. Then the succubus took her dominated thrall and used him to undo all of our social influence. Sad day.

*On that note, what action is required to make the opposed Charisma check to get a charmed creature to do your bidding? I couldn't find a rule on that anywhere.

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

RainyDayNinja wrote:

Well, I played this last weekend, and things didn't go so well. We were rocking the influence checks, because we had two or three Diplomancers in the group. Then we rocked the fight in the cellar, because we were rolling insane on all the Fort saves (not a single failure) and channeling positive energy really helps for fights like that.

Then came the succubus.

It turns out that 2 of our 5 party members had only +5 on the their Will saves at level 9, and no clear spindle ioun stone. So after a few rounds, our Fighter/Rogue was dominated, the Ninja and the druid's pet dinosaur were charmed*, and the druid was dead. At that point, there wasn't anything I could do, so my cleric grabbed Ezren and the charmed Ninja and teleported back to the Grand Lodge. Then the succubus took her dominated thrall and used him to undo all of our social influence. Sad day.

*On that note, what action is required to make the opposed Charisma check to get a charmed creature to do your bidding? I couldn't find a rule on that anywhere.

Dang, that's rough.

In regard to your question, it's not specified, and is tied to receiving instructions. Since no action is listed, presumably it comes along with speech: free action to tell you what to do, and the CHA check is part of that.

So charm was being used successfully in combat? Interesting. That takes some coordination to pull off. And the extra +5 on the save doesn't help, either.

Sovereign Court 5/5 RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Ran this this weekend. I had a bit of fun with the diplomacy bit. (The Andoran Senator got my Jabba impersonation, and I think I might have inflicted player trauma with the half elf cleric, plus I always play Colson Maldris like a large ham.)

The fights were, anti-climatic or maybe I ran them wrong.

a) Speciality channeller toasted the wraiths. I kept them to their tactics rather than mobbing the channelling cleric. Everyone made their saves vs con drain.

b) They took out the monk quickly, then the daughters gated it. This became ugly. Dim door on their turn, ending it, dropped by properly paranoid players before they could act.

c) This went well to start. The Urban Ranger designated the alu as his target, to make the fight go longer. I forgot SR on the dimensional anchor effect so she couldn't run regardless. That they lost actions changing into their normal shapes hurt the BBEG and the LBEG. Good saves on the fighter saved the cleric. (After seeing him drop one of the Alu in one Salvo Dominate person to drill the cleric seemed a good idea.) Still not very satisfying for everyone I think.

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

@Matthew Morris - I have a feeling that a lot of the final battle's challenge hinges on whether or not the dominate sticks.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ***

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Matthew Morris wrote:
c) This went well to start. The Urban Ranger designated the alu as his target, to make the fight go longer. I forgot SR on the dimensional anchor effect so she couldn't run regardless. That they lost actions changing into their normal shapes hurt the BBEG and the LBEG. Good saves on the fighter saved the cleric. (After seeing him drop one of the Alu in one Salvo Dominate person to drill the cleric seemed a good idea.) Still not very satisfying for everyone I think.

First, if the fights don't go as well, don't worry. The real meat of this mod is the roleplaying - the fights are just gravy.

That being said, I tend to have them drop their forms in the box text before the fight. It makes it easier for everyone to know what they're dealing with and lets them know that there's little chance of talking to these "serving ladies".

Was this at high tier or low tier? If that was low tier, then that sounds like how the fight goes. At high tier, vanishing trick changes things a lot.

I got to run this twice two weekends ago - this fight was pretty easy at low tier since the necromancer had cast command undead one of the wraiths, and used it to con drain this encounter to almost death (didn't kill them with the wraiths so that they wouldn't spawn new wraiths).

Which reminds me - anyone know what happens when you CON drain familiars?

Sovereign Court 5/5 RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

James McTeague wrote:

First, if the fights don't go as well, don't worry. The real meat of this mod is the roleplaying - the fights are just gravy.

That being said, I tend to have them drop their forms in the box text before the fight. It makes it easier for everyone to know what they're dealing with and lets them know that there's little chance of talking to these "serving ladies".

Was this at high tier or low tier? If that was low tier, then that sounds like how the fight goes. At high tier, vanishing trick changes things a lot.

I got to run this twice two weekends ago - this fight was pretty easy at low tier since the necromancer had cast command undead one of the wraiths, and used it to con drain this encounter to almost death (didn't kill them with the wraiths so that they wouldn't spawn new wraiths).

Which reminds me - anyone know what happens when you CON drain familiars?

It was low tier, and yeah, high tier would have made things more... interesting. (Amazingly the dice helped the party. The rogue went to hit the charmed sidekick and likely would have killed him, but missed with both attacks)

I'd enjoy running it again since a) I've a better hand after running it once and b) I enjoy the funny voices.

As to the con drain on familiars... IIRC they don't lose HP (since that's based on the master's total) but they can be killed. They don't rise though, since that only works on Humanoids.

Edit: another thing to remember is animal companious would likely need to be pushed to go downstairs with the wraiths (due to their unholy aura) since familiars are magical beasts, they'd be unaffected.

5/5 5/55/55/5

James McTeague wrote:


Which reminds me - anyone know what happens when you CON drain familiars?

Nothing but a fort save penalty till they hit zero really. They don't gain points when you buff their con so they don't lose them when they lose it. Their HP is still equal to half of their spellcaster's.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Much like the Blakros Matrimony, my rogue bombed the scenario due to low die rolls. We were also somewhat constrained due to the convention time slot. Overall I really enjoyed it despite failing pretty heavily most of the time. I may run this on Roll20 to better take advantage of the maps and have more time for the social interactions.

Dark Archive 3/5

Matthew Morris wrote:


c) This went well to start. The Urban Ranger designated the alu as his target, to make the fight go longer. I forgot SR on the dimensional anchor effect so she couldn't run regardless. That they lost actions changing into their normal shapes hurt the BBEG and the LBEG. Good saves on the fighter saved the cleric. (After seeing him drop one of the Alu in one Salvo Dominate person to drill the cleric seemed a good idea.) Still not very satisfying for everyone I think.

With the alu-fiend hiding in the tree watching for the party I'd expect that those two to have already dropped the disguises and gotten ready for the fight long before the PC's got a chance to know they are there. That is the point of telepathic, hidden scouts isn't it?

Anyway, that fight should be all about movement, 2 flying demons and 2 high mobility/reach ground opponents (you did have the succubus summon her Babau and give him the profane gift right) and the Rakshasa is doing spring attacks from the high tree branches? Start the fight off immediately with 2 mind control attempts (dominate & Suggestion) to remove 2 PC's and then it's 4 on 4 (or 5 on 3 if the dominate is worded right, horrible odds for the players. Next time you run this try hitting all the special abilities the demons have first and see how that changes the fight. It's usually far more exciting that way.

Also, for the wraith encounter remember while inside the wall the wraiths can still attack the party but are immune to the channel energy. Unless the cleric readies to channel when they reach out from the walls, this will only let them blast 1 wraith per channel and really up the difficulty of that fight.

For the daughters I just have one carry the others in (at their caster level each daughter can bring 2 others with them and THOSE aren't restricted from taking actions. 2-4 of them pop into the room and then 1-2 of them immediately use suggestion to have some party members grapple another party member (for their own safety, that other demon has used dominate/suggestion to make them jump out the window) really changes how that fight goes. Oh and all of this should happen the round they enter the room with Tesprin. Like all optional encounters it should really be the most lethal fight there.

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Mathwei ap Niall wrote:
Also, for the wraith encounter remember while inside the wall the wraiths can still attack the party but are immune to the channel energy. Unless the cleric readies to channel when they reach out from the walls, this will only let them blast 1 wraith per channel and really up the difficulty of that fight.

True, but remember this:

Universal Monster Rules, Incorporeal wrote:
It can sense the presence of creatures or objects within a square adjacent to its current location, but enemies have total concealment (50% miss chance) from an incorporeal creature that is inside an object. In order to see beyond the object it is in and attack normally, the incorporeal creature must emerge.

A wraith taking a 50% miss chance on all of its attacks is far less dangerous. The deadliest method would probably be a two-round process:

Round 1: 5ft step out of wall/floor, attack.
Round 2: Attack, 5ft step into wall/floor.
Repeat as needed.
This way, all of its attacks are uninhibited, but it's still completely safe half the time. Bonus points if multiple wraiths are on opposite rhythms so that even readied actions can't hit all of them at once. ;)

Dark Archive 3/5

Jiggy wrote:
Mathwei ap Niall wrote:
Also, for the wraith encounter remember while inside the wall the wraiths can still attack the party but are immune to the channel energy. Unless the cleric readies to channel when they reach out from the walls, this will only let them blast 1 wraith per channel and really up the difficulty of that fight.

True, but remember this:

Universal Monster Rules, Incorporeal wrote:
It can sense the presence of creatures or objects within a square adjacent to its current location, but enemies have total concealment (50% miss chance) from an incorporeal creature that is inside an object. In order to see beyond the object it is in and attack normally, the incorporeal creature must emerge.

A wraith taking a 50% miss chance on all of its attacks is far less dangerous. The deadliest method would probably be a two-round process:

Round 1: 5ft step out of wall/floor, attack.
Round 2: Attack, 5ft step into wall/floor.
Repeat as needed.
This way, all of its attacks are uninhibited, but it's still completely safe half the time. Bonus points if multiple wraiths are on opposite rhythms so that even readied actions can't hit all of them at once. ;)

Yeah, that works but is not really a good idea at this tier of play. Most of the combat monsters will devastate a normal wraith in a round with that tactic. I'd much rather take the 50% miss chance and only worry about a readied action from some then no miss chance and eat full attacks/double channels.

Surprisingly enough the average PC won't run away while you're doing this. They'll just hang around and let you get shot after shot this way.
Kooky, isn't it?

3/5

I Dmed this twice and each time the Ninjabus got away.

I used the wraith 5 foot step tactic as well. I had hot dice on the con drain and knock a few players with that. I dropped someone to 4 con and they hide the rest of the scenario. I also had them fly up and drop out the ceiling to get that extra +1.

Well the wraith can not see through the wall. So if a PC just sneaks back a step the wraith will be wasting it's time slashing at air.

I played them as intelligent and knowing thier strengths.

Sovereign Court 5/5 RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Thank you all for your advice. I enjoy RP scenarios so I'll likely be running this again.

Aside, did anyone use background music for the poison scene? I played Bear McCreary's (Yes I love that guy's work) Passagaglia from the Season 1 BSG soundtrack. (sorry, at work so I can't link a You Tube video) Very relaxing and I thought it would fit.

Dark Archive 3/5

Finlanderboy wrote:

I Dmed this twice and each time the Ninjabus got away.

I used the wraith 5 foot step tactic as well. I had hot dice on the con drain and knock a few players with that. I dropped someone to 4 con and they hide the rest of the scenario. I also had them fly up and drop out the ceiling to get that extra +1.

Well the wraith can not see through the wall. So if a PC just sneaks back a step the wraith will be wasting it's time slashing at air.

I played them as intelligent and knowing thier strengths.

I do most of that as well but you made a mistake on the 5' step tactic.

The wraith has this ability
Quote:
It can sense the presence of creatures or objects within a square adjacent to its current location, but enemies have total concealment (50% miss chance) from an incorporeal creature that is inside an object. In order to see beyond the object it is in and attack normally, the incorporeal creature must emerge.

With that they always know if a target is in the adjacent square or has moved out of it so they never attack an empty square. They just have to deal with the 50% miss chance.

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Finlanderboy wrote:
Ninjabus

Succunja?

2/5

Jiggy wrote:
Finlanderboy wrote:
Ninjabus
Succunja?

The first sounds like transport to an awesome, but deadly, school.

The second sounds like accented naughty talk, ja?
:O

Cheers.

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, 2011 Top 32, 2012 Top 4

Ninjabus for the win!

Glad you lot are enjoying the scenario. ;-)

4/5

Awesome scenario, seriously the most fun I've had rping in a scenario in forever.

This scenario fit my character perfectly and when I get a spare 15 prestige he's going to have this as his townhouse since I already claimed the master bedroom.

Though poor Riddiewipple almost died to Con drain. :-(

A lot of fun.

The Exchange 3/5

GMed this tonight with four PCs, a mix of fives and sixes (Summoner, Witch, Natural Attack Barbarian, and Earth Breaker Non Lethal Rogue).

I found out last night that I needed to prep this for today, so I didn't have near enough time as I'd like to flesh the characters out, but I thought the roleplay went well, there were numerous botched rolls but the scenario gives plenty of chances so they managed to convince all but the Osirion.

When it came time to search the manor for suspicious activities they.... split the party.

... and then after they found the servants bloody clothes, they got back together to discuss, then told the guard captain and newly blew the party.

Aaaaaand then they decided to split the party. Again. So the Barbarian and Rogue went downstairs and got ambushed by the Advanced Wraith and took a bunch of Con drain before beating it into submission.

Optional encounter was over pretty quick as the Gnome got grappled right away by the Eidolon, leading the Alu-Demon to take the abuse.

Final fight was ridiculous. The Rakshasa got grapped right away, Faelyn got his head smashed for a bunch of non lethal damage, and the Succubus barely managed to get out of melee by Dominating the barbarian and telling him to go attack the Eidolon. He broke the Domination on the following round (due to to the 'attack' command), but she managed to get away and fly above the carnage.

The witch cast Fly at the Barbarian, so he dropped his Cold Iron Earthbreaker and flew up to start four-attack full-attacking the succubus.

First full attak did 57 damage! Oh wait... that's 17 damage because of DR.

So then she vampiric touched him. And critted. Suddenly she had 84 hitpoints.

Shenanigans ensued... long...long drawn out shenanigans. She Suggested the Barbarian go away... so he went away, and the PCs gave up and she fled.

Damn, succubi are mean.

2/5

I ran this last weekend. Five level seven pregens and a level eight playing down. It made both combat and the convincing easy street, especially with the level eight cleric/fighter having prepared communal protection from evil. They gained all the influence they could after three rounds, so they spent the rest of their time trying to deal with Senator Augustyn and Lady Vaelia even after they figured out they were impossible.

The level eight was a newly-made Eagle Knight, and he ended up trying to piss Lady Vaelia off during dinner by openly insulting her, but she's too experienced to be drawn out like that. She just said something dismissive and ignored him the rest of the night. The best moment was when Major Maldris invited the knight to talk to the senator in the salon. After the major stormed off, the knight let the senator know exactly what he thought of him.

Then he gave the senator a gauntlet to the face.

Cue poison.

Dark Archive 3/5

Gwaihir Scout wrote:

I ran this last weekend. Five level seven pregens and a level eight playing down. It made both combat and the convincing easy street, especially with the level eight cleric/fighter having prepared communal protection from evil. They gained all the influence they could after three rounds, so they spent the rest of their time trying to deal with Senator Augustyn and Lady Vaelia even after they figured out they were impossible.

The level eight was a newly-made Eagle Knight, and he ended up trying to piss Lady Vaelia off during dinner by openly insulting her, but she's too experienced to be drawn out like that. She just said something dismissive and ignored him the rest of the night. The best moment was when Major Maldris invited the knight to talk to the senator in the salon. After the major stormed off, the knight let the senator know exactly what he thought of him.

Then he gave the senator a gauntlet to the face.

Cue poison.

You shouldn't have played down. 5 7th level toons and 1 8th level means you play the 8-9 tier with the 4 player party adjustment.

That's why it was easy.

2/5

Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

You shouldn't have played down. 5 7th level toons and 1 8th level means you play the 8-9 tier with the 4 player party adjustment.

That's why it was easy.

That's what I thought, but I couldn't find the line in the guide that said so in a timely manner, so I went with what I was seeing.

Dark Archive 3/5

Gwaihir Scout wrote:
Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

You shouldn't have played down. 5 7th level toons and 1 8th level means you play the 8-9 tier with the 4 player party adjustment.

That's why it was easy.
That's what I thought, but I couldn't find the line in the guide that said so in a timely manner, so I went with what I was seeing.

It is buried in there a bit. Look on page 31, right column 3rd paragraph from the top.

Run it again and enjoy. Just remember that swift action invisibility + 6d6 vampiric touch + 5 sneak attacks a round is quite deadly.

Have fun

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Mathwei ap Niall wrote:
Gwaihir Scout wrote:
Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

You shouldn't have played down. 5 7th level toons and 1 8th level means you play the 8-9 tier with the 4 player party adjustment.

That's why it was easy.
That's what I thought, but I couldn't find the line in the guide that said so in a timely manner, so I went with what I was seeing.

It is buried in there a bit. Look on page 31, right column 3rd paragraph from the top.

Run it again and enjoy. Just remember that swift action invisibility + 6d6 vampiric touch + 5 sneak attacks a round is quite deadly.

Have fun

Invisibility (of the non-greater variety) will only give you 1 sneak attack. After the first attack, the target is aware of you and gets its DEX bonus.

Dark Archive 3/5

Jiggy wrote:
Mathwei ap Niall wrote:
Gwaihir Scout wrote:
Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

You shouldn't have played down. 5 7th level toons and 1 8th level means you play the 8-9 tier with the 4 player party adjustment.

That's why it was easy.
That's what I thought, but I couldn't find the line in the guide that said so in a timely manner, so I went with what I was seeing.

It is buried in there a bit. Look on page 31, right column 3rd paragraph from the top.

Run it again and enjoy. Just remember that swift action invisibility + 6d6 vampiric touch + 5 sneak attacks a round is quite deadly.

Have fun

Invisibility (of the non-greater variety) will only give you 1 sneak attack. After the first attack, the target is aware of you and gets its DEX bonus.

there's more than 1 combatant in this fight and all the rest of them have specific instructions in their tactics section to set up flanks.

5 Sneak attacks a round.

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Oh. Hm. Played out differently when I was playing it, I guess.

Dark Archive 3/5

Jiggy wrote:
Oh. Hm. Played out differently when I was playing it, I guess.

I hear that alot, most GM's I've talked to have soft-balled this fight since it looks and feels so lethal. I even did it last time when the party of squishies (all casters) brought their uber pouncing tiger Animal Companion who couldn't make the save to avoid the charm monster spell.

Anything the succubus asked the cat (telepathically) to do it had to obey (couldn't make the opposed charisma check to refuse) including eat it's handler alive.

This adventure is almost as lethal as the Dalsine affair if you follow the tactics as written.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

We had some good support casters along with melee capability. The charms on our cavalier kept getting dispelled, and by the time she decided it was time to leave, we had her in melee. The only reason she didn't get away was failing the concentration check to use her teleport SLA defensively.

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Mathwei ap Niall wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Oh. Hm. Played out differently when I was playing it, I guess.
I hear that alot, most GM's I've talked to have soft-balled this fight since it looks and feels so lethal.

I don't mean softballing, I mean she dominated the alchemist and then stayed mobile (i.e., where she wouldn't get caught in his blast radius, and also keeping away from my air walking, invisibility purging, cold iron wielding cleric) while taking advantage of those nasty gloves of hers.

Dark Archive 3/5

Those gloves are lame, and stupid.
A standard action to get a 2D6 vampiric touch 3 times a day OR you can just use her natural ability to get a 6D6 Vampiric Touch an unlimited time a day.
I have no idea why she'd ever use them or even buy them?

Don't say because they can be used at range that can only be used on dying or bleeding targets which usually means nobody cares about it.

Blech.

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