Pathfinder PDF with hardcover book?


Paizo General Discussion


I am curious why an option isn't afforded to a non subscribing customer to get a pdf with the purchase of, i guess not only the hardcover, but any of the other items you have , like the adventure paths for example.

I tend to buy most of my books right from amazon, but at a significant discount in price, but obviously, i can't get the pdf through them. So, i have the option of coming here and just purchasing the pdf,which in the end, winds up costing me the same amount as if i was a subscriber.

To be blunt here, i would much rather just purchase my book and get the pdf all from paizo and get my pdf with it. It would just really make things much easier and i'd feel like i was supporting the little guy in the end rather than amazon. However, i don't have the money quite honestly to be a subscriber and can't make that kind of commitment ahead of time, because i don't know where my funds will be.

This is just something i've been really curious about for a while and was wondering if someone from the company could answer this for me :)

I just want to add; I really appreciate the effort you guys have put into pathfinder and honestly, i feel a sense of awe, like i used to as a kid when i played ad&d and remember reading all the cool new books and rules and stuff. It just feels like you guys are adding "coolness" back into the rpg atmosphere and i for one, really appreciate it. I haven't had so much fun in a lot of years. Thanks for re-invigorating my interest in role playing!


Check out this thread for more detailed explanation and such.

But cliff notes are - if you can become a subscriber, do so and you'll get the PDFs early and free with the dead tree version.

Otherwise you'll have to go the separate purchase route.


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An addendum: PDFs "early" isn't an official part of the subscription pitch. It often works out that way, but the Customer Service thread right now is alive with subscribers who still haven't received their shipping notice a week after people could purchase the PDFs in the Paizo store, and some of them are feeling particularly poorly done by because they expect their PDFs before street date.

Free PDFs are a promised perk. Early PDFs should not be relied on.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Yeah, the free-PDF is a major incentive for subscribers, and subscriptions are a major part of Paizo's business plan. I'm not a subscriber and I think it would be awesome if whenever I bought a hard cover from my FLGS, Paizo just up and gave me a PDF, but it doesn't work that way. It wouldn't make sense if it worked that way.


Ok, after spending some time looking at responses from Vic regarding this issue, i'm going to chime in on my thoughts.
I totally understand that the claim is this business model works and clearly it does. However, maybe it's time to perhaps look at a better "perk" for subscribers and not for all intensive purposes, snub me as a willing customer in the process. In fact, i would argue that keeping customers coming directly through this site and keeping secondary hands out of the picture all together, would be a much more desirable end model. I find it hard to believe that having secondary retailers is better in the big picture,especially in this day and age of internet commerce. Brick and mortar stores are slowing dying because of internet prices anyways.

I don't know, i guess as a willing customer who would love to see money stay more in the hands of the producers and less in the middle mans, i would like to see an option of being able to purchase a hardcover or other materials that gets a free pdf for being a subscriber, be available in the same manner for people willing to purchase direct at a later time.
Without being privy to what options could potentially be available to subscribers, i can't really make a specific recommendation for changing perks.
Just something to think about. Business models should be adaptable and flexible. In the end, it just feels like we are dancing around an elephant in the room for no real reason. :) Just my thoughts :)


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intents and purposes

not intensive purposes.


GroovyTuesday wrote:
In fact, i would argue that keeping customers coming directly through this site and keeping secondary hands out of the picture all together, would be a much more desirable end model. I find it hard to believe that having secondary retailers is better in the big picture,especially in this day and age of internet commerce. Brick and mortar stores are slowing dying because of internet prices anyways.

From what vic has said before, increasing direct sales is not necessarily a "much more desirable end model" for paizo. They want to keep all of their distribution channels viable - there are advantages to that not captured by a simple analysis of profit per unit.

It can be hard to see every facet of a business from outside - consider those of us who went back and bought all the PDFs released before we subscribed, for example. We did that based on a long held, often expressed and non negotiable "free PDFs are only for subscribers" position. If they now reverse that stance are they going to alienate us?

Also consider the fact that money now is more valuable than money later. If they offer some new way to get free PDFs, some subscribers will cancel which would defer income. The only way to offset this is by increasing the perks to subscribers some other way - which increases costs. I'm no RPG publisher, but I'll bet their margins aren't stellar (perhaps the golden successes are profitable, but they have to account for the odd flop also).

There's also the risk issue. Their subscriber model is an absolutely core part of their business - messing with it carries a high risk if it goes wrong and probably not a spectacular upside. Imagine they roll out some new suite of subscriber perks and switch to another method for sourcing free PDFs - only to find that they've misjudged the market mood and subscribers cancel in droves. That would be a nightmare scenario for them (even if the profit equation remained the same).

They are sympathetic to people who came late (and often provide historical "bundles" of themed products at great discounts). But they're also protective of their subscriber base - it is always best to subscribe now rather than later. The more avenues they provide for subscriber benefits, the less clear cut that becomes.

Sczarni

GroovyTuesday wrote:

Brick and mortar stores are slowing dying because of internet prices anyways.

Risking a derail, but this is not the case. Working part time at a small shop, most game stores go out of business because they either don't know how to run a business, or their distributor screws them if they don't order above a certain amount.

The past year has actually been the best for many brick and mortor stores in 10 years

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

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I think that keeping brick and mortar stores around is important for the long term health of the hobby, too. Game stores provide a congregation point for like-minded geeks and facilitate things like Org Play.

If everything went to a direct-sales internet model, the short term might be convenient for gamers and profitable for publishers, but the hobby would slowly wither and die as game groups break up and aren't reformed, and old gamers quit and aren't replaced.


Ross Byers wrote:

I think that keeping brick and mortar stores around is important for the long term health of the hobby, too. Game stores provide a congregation point for like-minded geeks and facilitate things like Org Play.

If everything went to a direct-sales internet model, the short term might be convenient for gamers and profitable for publishers, but the hobby would slowly wither and die as game groups break up and aren't reformed, and old gamers quit and aren't replaced.

Exactly right. We've got two game shops in Canberra, one which focuses far more on board games (seeing as they're located right in the middle of the CBD, it makes sense, as they get a lot of walkthrough customers at lunch) and one that's way out of the way to the south and focuses heavily on RPGs, war gaming and CCGs (they're also starting to carry comics in an attempt to fill a gap in the market, currently there's only two comic shops here, one right up north side and the other in the centre)

If we didn't have those two stores around, the hobby around here would be dead. I may be a subscriber through the site for all my Pathfinder stuff, since it's far cheaper, even after taking shipping into account, but I make sure that I support the local store with the rest of my gaming purchases. I may play mostly home games, but after a few years away from gaming, it was Good Games that got me back into it when the owner of the store invited me into a few of his role playing groups the very first time I met him. Paizo neither wants, nor should want these local stores to fail. If they do, there goes one of the most common venues for hosting PFS games.

You'll find that some of the indie publishers are pushing to try and keep brick and mortar stores afloat as well. Take a look at the Bits 'n' Mortar program that companies like Evil Hat are involved in. They're doing the free PDF when you buy from a participating store deal. That said, while it works well for indie publishers, I certainly don't expect Paizo to start up something like that. Vic (and if I recall correctly, other staff members) have explained well enough multiple times about why they won't be doing so (subscribers, not wanting to completely screw the physical stores, and so on).

Grand Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

This subject again? I didn't realize it was Tuesday already.....

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

They don't need to NGE Pathfinder Subscriptions. ;)


Kajehase wrote:

intents and purposes

not intensive purposes.

Yea yea...sue me lol it was late and i was on my cell phone :P lol

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