Is there an official option for not selecting an archetype substitution?


Rules Questions

Shadow Lodge

Is it possible to choose an Archetype for a class but not take one of the class ability substitutions?

Thanks

The Exchange

No, it's all or nothing. Maybe you can find a different archetype that does what you want. Or get GM approval to not make the switch or have the GM make a new archetype.


Nope. Closest thing is something like Qi Gong Monk, which is basically a collection of discrete Archetypes which are selectable individually. Otherwise, Archetypes are a package deal, and that is by intent, since the individual ability replacements are not always balanced on a 1:1 basis.


No. The substitutions are balanced with the full package in mind. If you are looking for a thoroughly tested way to do what you are looking for, see the various Super Genius Games "Guide to the talented X" series.

Shadow Lodge

Along those notes, how useful is a familiar for a bard? Without a lot of touch spells, it seems like it would be more of a flavor addition.


Harliquinn Whiteshadow wrote:
Along those notes, how useful is a familiar for a bard? Without a lot of touch spells, it seems like it would be more of a flavor addition.

Free Alertness is not bad.


Familiars are great even if just as a spy.


A familiar can work alright for a bard, you are going to have slightly better HP and attack bonus (not to mention saves), and still benefit from the action economy boost that a familiar provides anyone.


Plus, you can use them to deliver Cure spells.


Azazyll wrote:
No. The substitutions are balanced with the full package in mind.

Exactly this. Some archetypes are designed to have really good exchanges for some abilities, offset by really bad ones for others. Mixing and matching can make for an overpowered character.


Harliquinn Whiteshadow wrote:

Is it possible to choose an Archetype for a class but not take one of the class ability substitutions?

Thanks

Just to echo the previous posters... No, you can't pick and choose abilities.

That is, unless your DM is using/allowing 3rd party materials. Super Genius Games recently came out with some guides of "Talented Fighter/Rogue/Cavalier" that would possibly meet what you are going for.

Spoiler:

I think this is all of them so far...
http://paizo.com/products/btpy8yqw?The-Genius-Guide-to-the-Talented-Rogue
http://paizo.com/products/btpy8z1p?The-Genius-Guide-to-More-Rogue-Talents
http://paizo.com/products/btpy9065?The-Genius-Guide-to-the-Talented-Monk
http://paizo.com/products/btpy90lo?The-Genius-Guide-to-More-Monk-Talents
http://paizo.com/products/btpy8xoo?The-Genius-Guide-to-the-Talented-Fighter
http://paizo.com/products/btpy8y2p?The-Genius-Guide-to-More-Fighter-Talents
http://paizo.com/products/btpy917x?The-Genius-Guide-to-the-Talented-Cavalie r

Shadow Lodge

Thanks all for the help!

The question was mainly around the "Sea Singer" Archetype for Bards. I like all the cool stuff but you give up Versatile Performance (which I find *very* handy for a bard) for a Familiar.


Familiars can be awesomely powerful. At minimum, they're two free feats plus the ability to spy and deliver touch spells at range. With the the Improved Familiar feat, they can turn into a full-fledged consort, complete with its own set of actions per turn. The usual trick is to give it a million levels in Use Magic Device, a golf bag full of wands, and have it go to town with all the spells you'd like to have time to cast but can't.

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