Cloud Giant in fog cloud, PC is not, are both concealed?


Rules Questions


Hi guys!

So I'm planning an encounter with a cloud giant and trying to figure out the best tactics to make use of her fog cloud ability. I could give her blind-fight, and will, but I was wondering:

If she casts fog cloud so she is within it, but the PCs are not, can she attack out of the fog with her reach and hit PCs without a miss chance? Or does the fog surrounding her obscure her vision too? (kinda makes sense).

Are there any other cool ways use would use fog cloud tactically I'm not thinking of? I want to make this fight interesting and dangerous! I'm already having it happen inside a 50x50 ft beer hall, so they can't as easily distance themselves from her attacks. (Plus it will make for a lot of tables getting smashed and fun stuff like that.)

Thanks for the thoughts!


If there is intervening Miss Chance effect (on line of sight between attacker/target) , I apply Miss Chance to the attack.
That doesn't seem to apply for attackers on the edge of the Fog attacking outside the Fog,
which I would ascribe to the person in the Fog being able to put their head right up against the square border, so there is no intervening Fog.

Fog also completely blocks line of sight beyond adjacent squares, which can be a hassle for finding targets that aren't adjacent,
although that also prevents being targetted by ranged effects from afar, you can only be targetted from adjacent squares.
(and people can't easily determine the square any other creatures are in within the cloud, e.g. characters meleeing you, to guide their AoEs)
You can still make Perception checks to locate targets you can't see (by hearing, presumably), it's just harder.


Cool, thanks!

So the giant could stay at the very edge of the fog and get 20% miss chance concealment while not having to deal with it himself, and then occasionally take a 5ft step back into the fog to gain some extra protection from ranged attacks and targeted spells? Seems good.


I'm sorry, checking the spell itself again, I don't see anything giving credence to the idea that Miss Chance doesn't apply to creatures inside the fog (on the edge) attacking creatures outside the area of fog... In fact, if a creature inside the fog (on the edge) tries to attack non-adjacent enemies (i.e. with Reach) they would suffer Full Concealment penalties per RAW. The effect applies if the Fog is present is the square(s) associated with line of sight (and creatures' positions always conform 100% to square divisions), whether or not the attacker is within the Fog themselves or not, and like I wrote, the sight blockage applies even if both parties are outside the Fog (on opposite sides of it).

It is possible for a Large creature to be taller than the Fog, with one square/cube of their body within the Fog and one outside of it, especially if they walk up stairs, etc... In that case, opponents who are fully within the Fog would suffer Miss Chance vs. them, but the taller opponent one of who's squares is outside the Fog can designate that square to be making their attacks from (per normal rules for larger creatures' Reach) and not suffer the penalties of Fog, albeit if they attack a creature wholly within the Fog the penalties apply just as much as they do for other creatures outside the Fog attacking into it.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Check the bestiary on the Cloud Giant and see if it has an ability that would let it see through the cloud. Or a spell.


it doesn't.
but you could give it a few levels of Water Mystery Oracle which can do so (rounds/level),
and there probably is a few spells as well (and/or magic items).


Fogcutting lenses from the Runelords AP.


Splatbook wrote:
If she casts fog cloud so she is within it, but the PCs are not, can she attack out of the fog with her reach and hit PCs without a miss chance? Or does the fog surrounding her obscure her vision too? (kinda makes sense).

Look up the rules for line of sight/ concealment.

The attacker picks a corner of their square and draws lines to all of the corners of the target's square.

If you are just within a cloud spell, then you pick the corner on the edge of the cloud. Lines from there going out will not go through the cloud, and therefore the attacker will not suffer concealment.

Meanwhile those outside of the cloud attacking the creature within will draw lines to all the corners of that target's square which WILL cross through fog.. hence having concealment.

Thus the attacker in the fog will suffer no concealment penalties, while the one outside will.

It takes a bit of getting used to, but once you do you can have it make sense.

-James


Although the rules of the spell itself state: "A creature within 5 feet has concealment (attacks have a 20% miss chance). Creatures farther away have total concealment (50% miss chance, and the attacker can't use sight to locate the target)." which seem to go beyond just the normal rules. I would prefer just the normal rules, but the direct application of RAW doesn't quite line up to those. I would never complain if anybody used the determination per the normal rules though, and very well might use them myself.


I wonder how you would do it on a 10' high fog cloud if the giant is 15' tall? Its kind of like the old 3' dwarf versus 6' human duel challenge, the human gets to pick location of the duel and says in 5' of water with clubs. If the giant can see down into the cloud and still wander around in it, it becomes a fun game of whack-a-mole.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Cloud Giant in fog cloud, PC is not, are both concealed? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.