ErrantPursuit |
The class structures don't synergize well in my opinion. If you decide not to use armor and get a good Wisdom, then you can use Monk to replace your Armor and get that bonus to touch AC and CMD as well, which is nice. You get some saving throw boosts but lose BAB and HP as well. If you go mostly Monk and dip Gunslinger you're not getting much by enabling access to firearms.
Monks are primarily melee, even in the support role. Gunslingers are primarily ranged. If you do decide to combine the classes I suggest focusing on Gunslinger and using Monk and an archetype to help offset your melee concerns. Equivalent levels of both is the least of both worlds because both classes require several levels of investment to really pay out.
Lurk3r |
So the '-fu' isn't negotiable, but what about the 'gun'? You could dip 3 levels in Weapon Master Fighter to get weapon training in guns. Then be a Sohei Monk and when you hit 6th, you can flurry with your guns.
Kazumetsa Raijin |
Here's the idea: Vanara Gunslinger/Monk Multiclass. Bonuses to Wis and Dex seem synergistic, concept seems fun.
Ideas? Suggestions? Even just comments?
I've been thinking about this combination for a long time and it would definitely and probably clunky build when put together.
I could totally see a Monk going all wushu and then BAM with a pistol or two out of nowhere. I think it's totally badass! The reality of it though disagrees with me.
I'll spend time trying to meld the two together and let you know what I come up with. I've been working so much on Monk/Druid and Monk/BoTS that I haven't gotten around to Monk/Gunslinger.
Edit: I do know that rolling with 8 Monk/12 Gunslinger would probably be the best choice. Or vice versa. You would get the majority of your Flurry.. and if you 1 level from Gunslinger or Monk depending, and give it to Cleric, you could be Wis/Dex and use your Wis for Ranged and Melee(whatever that feat is). This will certainly be feat intensive; I can sense it.
Booksy |
This is a homebrew Archetype for the Monk, based of of the Zen Archer
Zen Marksman
May be what you want to avoid multiclass shinanigans. Although for a mid-high level campaign, five levels of Gunslinger could go a long way to aid your damage with a Dex build.
nate lange RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
lurk3r is right...
i'm not sure what's the best order to take these in but what you're looking for is gunslinger 3/sohei 6/weaponmaster 3 (and then 8 levels of whatever the heck you want). you're unarmed damage won't go up but at 12th level you can flurry with a gun (or with multiple guns, with quickdraw if needed).
nate lange RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
Daniel Turner Zen Archer |
Here's the idea: Vanara Gunslinger/Monk Multiclass. Bonuses to Wis and Dex seem synergistic, concept seems fun.
Ideas? Suggestions? Even just comments?
If your GM allows it, just ask if they would allow you to use the Zen Archer with guns instead of or in addition to any kind of bow.
Silent Saturn |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The classes actually have more synergy than you might think.
They both rely on Dex and Wisdom.
Monks get their WIS to AC, Gunslinger get the Nimble ability as a scaling dodge bonus.
Gunslingers specialize in a ranged weapon with a short range increment, but struggle if something enters melee range, while monks are all about melee combat without having to draw a weapon (or put away a firearm).
The problem is, how to balance the two classes.
I'd start with a level or two of monk (so you have your WIS to AC at level 1 when you really need it) then take five levels of gunslinger (to get Gun Training) and then back into monk. Gunslingers really want to own the type of gun they intend to use throughout their careers by Level 5, but a pepperbox or double hackbut is usually a big bite out of a level 5 character's WBL. A few levels of monk (and thus being Level 7 when it's actually time to buy the new gun) can help. It also means that if you run out of cartridges, you're prepared to go into melee.
Once you've got Gun Training and a ki pool, you can move in and out of the classes at your whim.
Fastmover |
Human Master of Many Styles (Archetype)/The Gunslinger
Monk 1. Dodge, Mobility, Panther Style
Monk 2. Panther Claw
Monk 3. Dragon Style
Monk3/Gunslinger2 5. Rapid Reload
Monk3/Gunslinger4 7. Vital Strike, Dragon Ferocity
Monk3/Gunslinger6 9. Point Blank Shot or Deadly Aim or Monastic Legacy
How's about something like this? I'm sure you can find something better but this is my idea; Have your character run through/past a small group of enemy to provoke AoO and use Panther Style to Vital Strike each of them (up to your wisdom modifier) with strong dragon force punches/kicks before making it to the other side of the group and firing a Deadly Vital Shot at one of the targets using touch AC or vice versa.
Ximen Bao |
Human Master of Many Styles (Archetype)/The Gunslinger
Monk 1. Dodge, Mobility, Panther Style
Monk 2. Panther Claw
Monk 3. Dragon Style
Monk3/Gunslinger2 5. Rapid Reload
Monk3/Gunslinger4 7. Vital Strike, Dragon Ferocity
Monk3/Gunslinger6 9. Point Blank Shot or Deadly Aim or Monastic LegacyHow's about something like this? I'm sure you can find something better but this is my idea; Have your character run through/past a small group of enemy to provoke AoO and use Panther Style to Vital Strike each of them (up to your wisdom modifier) with strong dragon force punches/kicks before making it to the other side of the group and firing a Deadly Vital Shot at one of the targets using touch AC or vice versa.
Vital Strike is a standard action. No AoOs.
soupturtle |
The question is: what do you want out of this character? If you want a character with the mobility and tricks of a monk who fights with a gun, that's doable. If you want a switch-hitter type character who can use guns as well as unarmed strikes in combat, that's harder, because it takes lots of feats to work well, and because dex based monks don't hit very hard with their unarmed strikes in the first place.
Anyway, the gunwielding part is pretty doable without houserules or third party/homebrew archetypes. I'd build it like this, going with musket master because it gets a key bonus feat (rapid reload), and because you don't need any free hands for unarmed strikes anyway.
1 musket master gunslinger: Point blank shot, rapid reload (bonus)
1 gunslinger / 1 monk: ?? (bonus)
2 gunslinger / 1 monk: Deadly aim
4 gunslinger / 1 monk: Rapid shot, precise shot (bonus)
5 gunslinger / 2 monk: ??, ?? (bonus)
So, this has 2 monk bonus feats and 1 general feat free up to level 7, free to fill up with whatever else you feel your character ought to be doing. If that's hitting hard with unarmed strikes, I'd guess the free feat should be power attack. You could also take master of many styles and have two style feats of choice. Or you could forget about unarmed combat altogether and take zen archer so you can get some more ranged feats as bonus feats (especially to get precise shot sooner - I took it quite late in the assumption that you're either switch hitting so will punch things if they're in melee, or you will take it earlier as a zen archer bonus feat anyway). It seems like zen archer would also give you point blank master, but I expect the unexplained asterisk behind that ability in the prd probably says it has to apply to a bow if you look in the printed rulebook.
Kolokotroni |
Are you including 3rd party material? Because the super genius games talented monk makes this concept really easy. One level of monk would let you have monk defense bonuses, and the ability to flurry with fy arms (though you would still need a means to reload them as a free action). If you went with pistols, rapid reload and alchemicala cartridges for instance. And as a bonus, at higher levels of monk your damage with your guns could scale like a monk's unarmed damage does.
Hobgoblin Shogun |
Wow, thanks everybody for the responses! Let's go though all this...
@Lurk3r
You the man! That's an awesome idea.
@Raymond Lambert
Seen it. Thought the action was kinda lame lol.
@ArmouredMonk13
That's an interesting concept. I don't know how "holy" he really is though.
@Silent Saturn
That's what I think!
@Kolokotroni
No, no 3rd party stuff.
Dabbler |
So the '-fu' isn't negotiable, but what about the 'gun'? You could dip 3 levels in Weapon Master Fighter to get weapon training in guns. Then be a Sohei Monk and when you hit 6th, you can flurry with your guns.
Kinda like a gunslinger with TWF...
Katz |
Could a Monk of the Empty Hand be capable of using guns as a Flurry weapon even if it had first take pre-reqs to use the gun, and use the gun as a club or light hammer?
I would say yes, though as a quarterstaff (for two-handed) or club (for one-handed) based on the way the MotEH is written, though YMMV
Ximen Bao |
Could a Monk of the Empty Hand be capable of using guns as a Flurry weapon even if it had first take pre-reqs to use the gun, and use the gun as a club or light hammer?
The way the archetype is written, it could always use the gun as an improvised melee or thrown weapon, but never as a gun.
It says to treat all actual weapons as one of three melee weapons, so I think RAW they can't use any ranged weapons as ranged weapons.
soupturtle |
I'd say a monk of the empty hand could use weapons that he's proficient with from another class normally as well as as improvised weapons (but he could only flurry with them when using them as improvised).
If you've got a good point buy I guess you could make a fun switch-hitter out of a musket master / monk of the empty hand.