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Can the Legendary Item path trait be applied to a Black Blade?
Legendary Item (Ex): You gain a legendary item (see
page 169). This item grants a number of abilities equal
to your tier (maximum 3). At 3rd tier, you can select this
ability again, increasing the maximum to six abilities and
causing the item to become a lesser artifact. At 6th tier,
you can select this ability again, increasing the maximum
to 10 abilities; the item then becomes a greater artifact.
Paralleling the trajectory of a mythic character,
a legendary item begins as a normal magic item that
ascends to something greater. Typically this ascension
occurs when a character first takes the legendary item
universal path ability (see page 50), but this isn’t always
the case.
Thematically I see it as a perfect fit, but does RAW support it?
Nope, would have to be house-ruled.
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Nope, would have to be house-ruled.
There's nothing in the "Becoming Legendary" section that would prevent it. Technically, all the character would have to do is pick up the Legendary Item path power and pick his Black Blade as the item.
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Nope, would have to be house-ruled.There's nothing in the "Becoming Legendary" section that would prevent it. Technically, all the character would have to do is pick up the Legendary Item path power and pick his Black Blade as the item.
This is my interpretation as well. This seems like it should also work fine with a Wizard's object and similar abilities.
Seeing as they recently ruled in FAQ that a Black Blade couldn't be enhanced further I could see why it wouldn't be allowed. They've made it operate differently than a 'normal' magic item. Taking the legendary item path is certainly adding/enhancing the class ability that happens to act like a magic item.
I don't have a problem with it working, but that official FAQ stating you cannot add abilities (above/beyond what the other magus class abilities can do it) to the Black Blade is definitly a sticky point if you are going to argue RAW allows it.
Edit:
http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fz#v5748eaic9qux
That being said, mythic adventures are really the DM's baby. As they've stated before, each game is going to vary wildly from group to group at that stage, and any sort of balance is much more difficult to predict/maintain from a game developer POV. If we get a FAQ I would imagine it would be one of those 'it is entirely understandable/reasonable to allow as a house rule' type answers.
It should work fine, but a couple of the abilities are a little murky. Aside from Foe Biting, the stat boosts (more pool points) and special abilities that you can give intelligent legendary items are probably the most beneficial, but unfortunately the two separate intelligent item rule sets probably don't mix well.
And woe to the poor sap GM that let's a player convince them that Foe Biting should also multiply Spellstrike damage... ><
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Seeing as they recently ruled in FAQ that a Black Blade couldn't be enhanced further I could see why it wouldn't be allowed. They've made it operate differently than a 'normal' magic item. Taking the legendary item path is certainly adding/enhancing the class ability that happens to act like a magic item.
I would offer two possible counter arguements.
1. Mythic item advancement operate separately from normal item advancement.
2. Other path abilities can and do modify class abilities.
Any item can become Legendary. There are rules for legendary wands and legendary rings, after all. So yes, I would say that a Mythic Black Blade is a valid (and perhaps all-too fitting) choice as a magus's legendary item.
I agree with Froze_Man that the rules are a little foggy on what would happen if you picked the Intelligent perk for an Intelligent item, but I'd imagine that it would just count as the weapon already possessing that perk, allowing you to gain an intelligent weapon power and stat boosts instead.
I don't immediately see anything in RAW that would prohibit it; however, I do agree with Skylancer4 that you could take the recent "no external enhancements to the black blade" FAQ to mean that you couldn't do it.
There is quite a functional difference between, say, an enhancement bonus and making it a legendary item. I would suggest FAQing it; I'll click the top post to that end.
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It should work fine, but a couple of the abilities are a little murky. Aside from Foe Biting, the stat boosts (more pool points) and special abilities that you can give intelligent legendary items are probably the most beneficial, but unfortunately the two separate intelligent item rule sets probably don't mix well.
And woe to the poor sap GM that let's a player convince them that Foe Biting should also multiply Spellstrike damage... ><
I agree.
Some of the mythic abilities would either be redundant or not mesh well with a black blade.
Spellstrike has specific rules that limit the multiplier. I would rule the spellstrike rules are more specific than the Foe Biter rules.
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Upgrading a weapon into a Legendary weapon is completely separate from the weapon's non-mythic power progression. You could have a legendary +1 dagger, or a legendary +5 Vopral adamantine sword. Because of this, there is absolutely nothing in the Legendary weapon rules that would conflict with a blade blade's existing powers unless you specifically go out of your way to pick an optional ability that doesn't make sense for it such as 'intelligent' or 'upgradable'.
So basically, any reasonable GM will allow a Black Blade to become a Legendary weapon. Everyone else is getting too worried about technicalities like it coming from a class ability. It isn't like this is going to come up in PFS where you have to go with the letter of the rules rather than common sense anyway.
I have not had a chance to really study the legendary item rules yet but my first thought was that a mystic black blade would be cool. I FAQed the first post.
Nope, would have to be house-ruled.Care to explain your reasoning?
Because of this part:
Paralleling the trajectory of a mythic character, a legendary item begins as a normal magic item that ascends to something greater. Typically this ascension occurs when a character first takes the legendary item universal path ability (see page 50), but this isn’t always the case.
Black Blades are not normal magic items at all. They are sentient, have an ego score, a spell-pool, are at most times absolutely indestructible, and advance their power automatically in tandem with their 'owner'. RAI, it seems pretty intentional that they're talking about you picking up a normal +1 longbow or +1 greatsword, not the intelligent, life-drinking magic blade which can turn it's will upon it's wielder if it gets pissed enough. While the case isn't as solid, that bolded bit seems to support RAW being this way too.
But, just in case I'm wrong, I'll mark it FAQ as well.
Seeing as they recently ruled in FAQ that a Black Blade couldn't be enhanced further I could see why it wouldn't be allowed. They've made it operate differently than a 'normal' magic item. Taking the legendary item path is certainly adding/enhancing the class ability that happens to act like a magic item.I would offer two possible counter arguements.
1. Mythic item advancement operate separately from normal item advancement.
2. Other path abilities can and do modify class abilities.
Well aware of the arguments.
1) Lots of things work differently yet are similar in an exception based game. The iconic feat to alter/modify/improve magic weapons when appied to the class ability that is like 'a magic weapon' is barred from doing so by official FAQ.
2) Other path abilities may modify class abilities, but this specific class ability is an exception, stated in FAQ. Temporary abilities via arcane pool are how a Black Blade can be improved. Does the ability state outright it makes an exception to the exception? That is what we are looking for RAW to allow it.
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2) Other path abilities may modify class abilities, but this specific class ability is an exception, stated in FAQ. Temporary abilities via arcane pool are how a Black Blade can be improved. Does the ability state outright it makes an exception to the exception? That is what we are looking for RAW to allow it.
That FAQ was relating to upgrading the Black Black via normal item progression. It was a FAQ I strongly agreed with.
Because of that FAQ, it would be pointless to take
Upgradable: This ability grants the bonded creature
the ability to more easily increase the non-mythic magical
power of the legendary item. If the base magic item has a
version with a higher bonus or greater version (such as a
+1 longsword, a +2 light steel shield, a cloak of protection +3, an
amulet of might fists +4, or a minor ring of inner fortitude), the
bonded creature can improve it by performing a special
ritual. She must spend a number of gold pieces equal
to half the difference between the cost of the legendary
item’s current, non-mythic base item and the greater
version she wishes to upgrade the item into. For example,
she would pay 3,000 gp to upgrade a +1 longsword into a
+2 longsword.
This ritual takes 8 hours. When it’s completed, the
bonded creature transmutes the item’s base version into
the desired version. When upgraded in this fashion, the
legendary item retains all legendary item abilities it had
before the transmutation.
Legendary Item progression, however, uses an entirely different set of mechanics. Mechanics that are much more closely related to how class abilities function.
Mythic Bond: A legendary item is typically bonded to
a single mythic creature. Others can pick up and use a
legendary item for its basic functions (like hitting a foe
with a legendary mace), but only the creature bonded to the
item can utilize it fully.
A mythic creature can be bonded to only one legendary
item at a time. If a mythic creature is already bonded to a
legendary item, she can’t become bonded to another item
until the previous bond is broken. Likewise, a legendary
item that is already bonded to a mythic creature can’t be
bonded to another until the former bond is broken.
Upgrading a weapon into a Legendary weapon is completely separate from the weapon's non-mythic power progression. You could have a legendary +1 dagger, or a legendary +5 Vopral adamantine sword. Because of this, there is absolutely nothing in the Legendary weapon rules that would conflict with a blade blade's existing powers unless you specifically go out of your way to pick an optional ability that doesn't make sense for it such as 'intelligent' or 'upgradable'.
So basically, any reasonable GM will allow a Black Blade to become a Legendary weapon. Everyone else is getting too worried about technicalities like it coming from a class ability. It isn't like this is going to come up in PFS where you have to go with the letter of the rules rather than common sense anyway.
If the Black Blade were your typical magic item that just advanced how a magical item is described to in the CRB, you'd be correct.
The Black Blade has specific ways of being improved, there is no path ability for Black Blades, yet there are for familiars, animal cohorts, etc. 'This seems to fit' isn't a valid argument for a RAW decision that goes contrary to an official FAQ. The FAQ says use your arcane pool to improve the Black Blade. Does the path list it is an exception to that? Does it state you can use your arcane pool to modify your Black Blade beyond what you are currently able to do? No one has posted anything to answer either of those to an affirmitive.
Should it be allowed to? Sure, I have no problem with it. RAW, doesn't back that however.
Stuff that was cut off and would take forever to redo on my phone ;)
Very simple yes/no question that needs to be answered before anything else is discussed:
Is the Black Blade listed as an item that can be turned into a Legendary Item?
If the answer is 'yes,' it is called out as a valid choice, we have a RAW answer.
If the answer is 'no,' we don't have the mechanical permission required to go any further, we have a different RAW answer.
If the answer is none of the above, the default answer is 'no' due to the game being exception based. It tells us when we are able to do things, further rules may alter or make exceptions to the general rules. But we need the exception to be able to say 'yes this is RAW, we can do it!' RAW has never been, 'it doesn't tell me we can't so we can,' that isn't how the system is designed to work.
I will state again, I'm okay with it, but the rules aren't giving us the ability to do so in a RAW situation, which is what the Rules Forum is here for. Barring any more information, all anyone's arguments are causing us to do is argue circles around the dead horse. Clicking the FAQ because the book is new and maybe they'll FAQ and say it works. But as I said earlier this stage of the game is usually quite 'personal' to each group and customized to their play style. Probably won't be a great deal of organized play with it (if any), and quite honestly that is where there needs to be an official answer to draw from.
So basically, any reasonable GM will allow a Black Blade to become a Legendary weapon. Everyone else is getting too worried about technicalities like it coming from a class ability. It isn't like this is going to come up in PFS where you have to go with the letter of the rules rather than common sense anyway.
That's a bit presumptuous, don't you think? House-rules exist because there are groups that are more or less comfortable with differing levels of wealth, power, and options than the base system lays out. If a GM knows they can avoid a lot of frustration, drama, and confusion in the game they're running by ruling that something simply isn't an option, how is that not in the best interest of the GM and all the players?
Edit: Also, this is Pathfinder, it embraces technicality like a Vulcan. Saying 'No' to this particular combination based on that rationale wouldn't be anything out of the ordinary for the system.
Personally, I would allow a black blade to be upgraded to a legendary weapon simply because I've always read the class feature to imply that very idea thematically, if not in specific mechanics. That will probably be my standing house rule regardless of any FAQ answer that comes back.
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Stuff that was cut off and would take forever to redo on my phone ;)Very simple yes/no question that needs to be answered before anything else is discussed:
Is the Black Blade listed as an item that can be turned into a Legendary Item?
Rules expansions never go into that level of detail on archetype abilities. It would be impossible for them to do so without becoming bloated.
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Indeed, but only when they say they do. Does this one?No it cannot. Why can't it? Because it doesn't say it can. The black blade isn't just an item, it is a class ability.Path abilities can modify class abilities. Take, for example, any of the path abilities that modify animal companions, familiars and eidolons.
It says you can modify a magic item.
A Black Blade is an item that is magical.
It places no other restrictions.
Rules expansions never go into that level of detail on archetype abilities. It would be impossible for them to do so without becoming bloated.Stuff that was cut off and would take forever to redo on my phone ;)Very simple yes/no question that needs to be answered before anything else is discussed:
Is the Black Blade listed as an item that can be turned into a Legendary Item?
So you are saying there are no rules saying yes or no? Which leads to the last possible answer, which in turn defaults to 'no' because it doesn't say it can in a RAW setting, correct?
Indeed, but only when they say they do. Does this one?No it cannot. Why can't it? Because it doesn't say it can. The black blade isn't just an item, it is a class ability.Path abilities can modify class abilities. Take, for example, any of the path abilities that modify animal companions, familiars and eidolons.It says you can modify a magic item.
A Black Blade is an item that is magical.
It places no other restrictions.
NORMAL magical item, that's what is says in the Mythic ability. Black Blades do not fit this description. In fact, they're just shy of being artifacts in their own right.
Indeed, but only when they say they do. Does this one?No it cannot. Why can't it? Because it doesn't say it can. The black blade isn't just an item, it is a class ability.Path abilities can modify class abilities. Take, for example, any of the path abilities that modify animal companions, familiars and eidolons.It says you can modify a magic item.
A Black Blade is an item that is magical.
It places no other restrictions.
Incorrect, it is a class ability that 'acts' like a magical weapon with very strict limitations.
Your logic would make a Supernatural ability function just like a Spell, which is decidedly not the case in this game. Just because something 'is like' something to avoid bloat and excessive word count when describing it, absolutely doesn't mean the two are exactly the same for any particular ability or rule. You are trying to shoe horn the result into place for lack of getting there through the rules and FAQs on the subject.
So you are saying there are no rules saying yes or no? Which leads to the last possible answer, which in turn defaults to 'no' because it doesn't say it can in a RAW setting, correct?Rules expansions never go into that level of detail on archetype abilities. It would be impossible for them to do so without becoming bloated.Stuff that was cut off and would take forever to redo on my phone ;)Very simple yes/no question that needs to be answered before anything else is discussed:
Is the Black Blade listed as an item that can be turned into a Legendary Item?
As far as I can tell, the only 'requirement' is that it be a 'normal magic item'.
Our prerequisite 'normal magic item' is undefined. Does that mean a weapon with enhancements and enchantments on it? What if that weapon happens to be intelligent? Do specific named magic items count? What if it's an artifact? I'd consider the first, second, and third as 'normal', and possibly even the fourth, but would the next GM?
Point out a table entitled 'normal magic items'; by this strict application of RAW, nothing would qualify, because nothing in the game is labeled as a 'normal magic item'; normal is a subjective adjective, and variation would be impossible to avoid.
I understand your point - if it's not defined, lean toward 'no' - but the prerequisite listed isn't defined in any way. Thus why I feel like an FAQ is necessary.
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Boy I'd sure hate to let the Magus' bonded blackblade become even more closely tied to the MYTHIC character that's just absurd.
Boy I'd sure hate to let the Magus' bonded blackblade become even more closely tied to the MYTHIC character that's just absurd.We're not saying it shouldn't be done, we're just answering the rules question of rather or not it does work. That way neither players nor DMs get blindsided when they try and use something that isn't legal.
Would it be cool if it worked that way? Sure. And would it be broken? Probably not. If you want to talk to your DM and have him allow it, go for it.
Well, but again I'd say that it's questionable. I tend to lean that way as well because of the Black Blade FAQ recently made. But our prerequisite here is category of item "normal magic item". It's just not a term that's defined.
If anything, right now I would argue that the most appropriate RAW interpretation would be, "It's up to the GM," - not because it would require a house rule, but because the rules aren't clear\explicit enough on whether it's allowed or not.
My thing is the can't be enhanced part of the blackblade is not the same thing as can't become legendary. But that's just my opinion.
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If anything, right now I would argue that the most appropriate RAW interpretation would be, "It's up to the GM," - not because it would require a house rule, but because the rules aren't clear\explicit enough on whether it's allowed or not.
This is my current position, and why I started the thread.
I am hoping to get enough FAQ responses to clarify the issue.
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Indeed, but only when they say they do. Does this one?No it cannot. Why can't it? Because it doesn't say it can. The black blade isn't just an item, it is a class ability.Path abilities can modify class abilities. Take, for example, any of the path abilities that modify animal companions, familiars and eidolons.It says you can modify a magic item.
A Black Blade is an item that is magical.
It places no other restrictions.
Incorrect, it is a class ability that 'acts' like a magical weapon with very strict limitations.
Your logic would make a Supernatural ability function just like a Spell, which is decidedly not the case in this game. Just because something 'is like' something to avoid bloat and excessive word count when describing it, absolutely doesn't mean the two are exactly the same for any particular ability or rule. You are trying to shoe horn the result into place for lack of getting there through the rules and FAQs on the subject.
There is a problem with your reasoning, one that can be exploited in the non-mythic game.
Black Blade is an EX ability, not SU.
If the Black Blade is not a magic item, then:
- It cannot be turned off with a dispel magic
- Works inside an Anti Magic Field
- Is not affected by Disjunction
A Bladebound Kensai is capable of casting Anti Magic Field. Do you want his weapon to keep working while everybody else shuts down?
I would much rather we continue with the assumption that the Black Blade is an evolving magic item granted by a class feature. The alternative, an EX ability that superficially resembles a magic weapon, is going to cause too many exploits.
*It is unlikely a FAQ response will affect me either way. I don't see Mythic ever being permitted in PFS and in a home game, thematically appropriate is more relevant than official rules. I do, however, enjoy seeing unclear rules cleared up.
Black Blade is an EX ability, not SU.
Huh, that's interesting. Makes sense though, there's nothing magical about an ability can be summed up as "at the cost of some class abilities, you are guaranteed to find a Black Blade".
As far as I can tell, the only 'requirement' is that it be a 'normal magic item'.Our prerequisite 'normal magic item' is undefined. Does that mean a weapon with enhancements and enchantments on it? What if that weapon happens to be intelligent? Do specific named magic items count? What if it's an artifact? I'd consider the first, second, and third as 'normal', and possibly even the fourth, but would the next GM?
Point out a table entitled 'normal magic items'; by this strict application of RAW, nothing would qualify, because nothing in the game is labeled as a 'normal magic item'; normal is a subjective adjective, and variation would be impossible to avoid.
I understand your point - if it's not defined, lean toward 'no' - but the prerequisite listed isn't defined in any way. Thus why I feel like an FAQ is necessary.
You are correct there is no heading under magic items that states 'Normal Magic Item' however there are threads reagarding wording and rules in which the devs have chimed in to say, the rules use the english language and when something is used in a general sense using the english language definition of the word is appropriate and intended.
So, with that in mind, the definition of a 'normal' magic item would be one that follows the detailed description for magic items in the CRB (Core Rule Book). Magic items have rules for how to figure out abilities and pricing when improved or something is added to them. You'll note that the Black Blade class ability is barred from being improved upon by the rules in that section by the FAQ. This removes it from the 'normal magic item' umbrella similar to how an artifact is unable to be changed/created 'normally' barring GM intervention (as there are no rules for creating them in the CRB with whatever fluff they provide, usually so powerful and the secrets of creating them have been lost, etc etc etc).
As for specific items, that is a GM call. Official organized play specifically prohibits it. But as far as a home game we have guidelines for it in the CRB. Same thing for an intelligent item, there are rules proposed with the understanding it can be done if the GM allows it and with them, guidelines for pricing also noting that it may be WAY off depending on what it is. So I believe we are on the same page regarding the rest of your questions.
Basically we have a game definition and description of magic items; mechanics, descriptions, prices. And we have the english language definition of 'normal' which would point us to the section for magic items. The Black Blade isn't created with those rules and is not allowed to be improved further by those rules.
It isn't a 'normal' magic item for that reason.
Indeed, but only when they say they do. Does this one?No it cannot. Why can't it? Because it doesn't say it can. The black blade isn't just an item, it is a class ability.Path abilities can modify class abilities. Take, for example, any of the path abilities that modify animal companions, familiars and eidolons.It says you can modify a magic item.
A Black Blade is an item that is magical.
It places no other restrictions.
Incorrect, it is a class ability that 'acts' like a magical weapon with very strict limitations.
Your logic would make a Supernatural ability function just like a Spell, which is decidedly not the case in this game. Just because something 'is like' something to avoid bloat and excessive word count when describing it, absolutely doesn't mean the two are exactly the same for any particular ability or rule. You are trying to shoe horn the result into place for lack of getting there through the rules and FAQs on the subject.
There is a problem with your reasoning, one that can be exploited in the non-mythic game.
Black Blade is an EX ability, not SU.
If the Black Blade is not a magic item, then:
- It cannot be turned off with a dispel magic
- Works inside an Anti Magic Field
- Is not affected by Disjunction
A Bladebound Kensai is capable of casting Anti Magic Field. Do you want his weapon to keep working while everybody else shuts down?
I would much rather we continue with the assumption that the Black Blade is an evolving magic item granted by a class feature. The alternative, an EX ability that superficially resembles a magic weapon, is going to cause too many exploits.
*It is unlikely a FAQ response will affect me either way. I don't see Mythic ever being permitted in PFS and in a home game, thematically appropriate is more relevant than official rules. I do, however, enjoy seeing unclear rules cleared up.
You've avoided the point however. Look up a spell, then look up that spell being used as a 'spell like ability.' Now look up the spell in the context of a 'supernatural ability.' Just because they both refer back to the spell doesn't make them a spell. The effect created is 'like' a spell but there are differences, so it actually isn't a 'spell'. They are not all the same, even if they share similar paths to the result. The same for an EX ability that refers to a spell. There are mechanics involved and labeling the ability as EX, SP, or SU tell us which mechanics we need to pay attention to.
To address your deflection of the point made, the EX label means they can actually have a weapon in the AMF, the detailed description states the blade is magical, the abilities that alter and improve it are magical. The character now has a non magical masterwork weapon that has magical abilities suppressed in the AMF, RAW. This is significantly better than having the weapon go 'poof' and leaving the poor Magus without his/her main weapon because the weapon was a magic effect. There is no possible 'exploit,' saying so is misleading and an attempt to garner your argument some sort of favor implying that if you aren't right the other side of the argument is 'breaking the game' somehow. Which just isn't the case, there is nothing breaking the game due to the Black Blade not being a valid option for a mythic path ability. That is unless your definition of breaking the game is playing in a way you don't agree with.
The longer the thread goes on, it really does seem the less and less unclear the answer is. As people dig up the relevant information we are slowly checking the Black Blade off the lists of things the path ability refers to and can be applied to. Even without the FAQ, the Black Blade is far from a 'normal' magic item as Xaratherus brought up. The FAQ really just serves to reinforce that.
@Skylancer4: I disagree.
You are right that 'normal' has a definition in the English language, but that definition is almost always subjective. It's that subjectivity that leads to needing an FAQ on this.
As I pointed out, one GM might only allow magic items that have standard enhancement bonuses and enchantments; another might allow those, as well as intelligent items, but not specific named items; a third might allow all three, but might not allow custom magic items that are created following the magic item creation rules; the last might allow all four.
That's four potential areas of deviation right there.
While I admit the FAQ is compelling, I disagree that it is compelling enough to say - when factoring in the simple reality of deviation even among the items that you state could be considered 'normal' - that it's disallowed with 100% certainty. I believe that the thematic ('fluff') of the Black Blade could be sufficient to override the FAQ; the Black Blade is meant almost already to be a weapon of fate, and so allowing it to become a legendary weapon isn't hard to imagine at all.
I am not saying I disagree with you on what the end result will most likely be; I am saying that you have an argument concrete-enough to move this from the realm of "GM call" to "definitely forbidden". I doubt that I will convince you otherwise, but my argument really isn't for you, it's for those who might be 'on the fence' about clicking FAQ.
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To address your deflection of the point made, the EX label means they can actually have a weapon in the AMF, the detailed description states the blade is magical, the abilities that alter and improve it are magical. The character now has a non magical masterwork weapon that has magical abilities suppressed in the AMF, RAW. This is significantly better than having the weapon go 'poof' and leaving the poor Magus without his/her main weapon because the weapon was a magic effect. There is no possible 'exploit,' saying so is misleading and an attempt to garner your argument some sort of favor implying that if you aren't right the other side of the argument is 'breaking the game' somehow. Which just isn't the case, there is nothing breaking the game due to the Black Blade not being a valid option for a mythic path ability. That is unless your definition of breaking the game is playing in a way you don't agree with.
Is the Black Blade a magic item or is it not?
If it is a magic item, it is viable to become a Legendary Item.
If it is not a magic item, it is not affected by effects that would turn magic items off.
In neither circumstance is the Black Blade an SP or an SU, and the word magic appears no where in the Black Blade text.
Furthermore, the Black Blade abilities are listed as a mix of EX, SP and SU. The EX abilities should function inside an Anti Magic Field. The Enhancement bonus of the Black Blade is not defined as magical or non-magical.
Paralleling the trajectory of a mythic character, a legendary item begins as a normal magic item that ascends to something greater. Typically this ascension occurs when a character first takes the legendary item universal path ability (see page 50), but this isn’t always the case.Black Blades are not normal magic items at all. They are sentient, have an ego score, a spell-pool, are at most times absolutely indestructible, and advance their power automatically in tandem with their 'owner'.
Do you think that the rules are implying that a non-legendary intelligent item cannot become a legendary item then? Because the legendary rules allow you to become intelligent as part of the process. As someone else put, can a wizard's arcane bonded item become legendary? You have to craft the item into a magic item normally, but considering that the magic item gets a special class-related power, it still would not be an ordinary magic item.
I personally interpreted the word "normal" in the paragraph you linked to mean, "non-legendary," as in "A legendary item begins play as a standard magic item that ascends to something greater."
So I don't agree with you there, it seems like they're saying, "Start with any old magic item and select it with this specific ability power.
And honestly, if anything it makes MORE sense that the arcane bonded item or black blade of a mythic character would become legendary because those items naturally have a powerful, binding connection to a mythic source.
I would allow it, but I'm crazy. Faq it just to get a straightforward answer. My guess it's gonna get a ruling against it, because the magus kit is already so good I Don't think they like to give the magus anymore nice things(the haste ruling comes to mind).
NORMAL magical item, that's what is says in the Mythic ability. Black Blades do not fit this description. In fact, they're just shy of being artifacts in their own right.Indeed, but only when they say they do. Does this one?No it cannot. Why can't it? Because it doesn't say it can. The black blade isn't just an item, it is a class ability.Path abilities can modify class abilities. Take, for example, any of the path abilities that modify animal companions, familiars and eidolons.It says you can modify a magic item.
A Black Blade is an item that is magical.
It places no other restrictions.
NORMAL could cause problems for other armor also. According to the core rules you can not upgrade elven chain mail or celestial shield or other things either (unless ultimate campaign will let you when they add it)
so any of the SPECIFIC armors or weapons would not be NORMAL either.
But those specific armors and weapons and black blades are the ones most likely to become talked about and legendary.
I'd personally allow it.
But seeing how I was unsure, did a search, found this thread, and read its multiple levels of legalese and RAW / RAI debate, I've marked it for FAQ as well.
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Not official, but the way I'd rule it:
Yes, a mythic bladebound magus can select his black blade as a legendary item.
However, the magus cannot select the Intelligent or Upgradeable legendary abilities for the black blade; the baseline abilities of the black blade already provide intelligence and upgrades to the item. Also, the Unyielding legendary ability overlaps with, but does not replace the normal black blade Unbreakable quality (i.e., cannot be broken if there is at least 1 point in the blade's arcane pool, double hardness/triple hp and can't be sundered by non-mythic creatures if at 0 points).