Eye for Talent Trait creates a Magical Beast Mount?


Rules Questions

Silver Crusade

Hello Pathfinders,

I was wondering how these two rules work for the Cavalier Mount options:

Eye for Talent: Humans have great intuition for hidden potential. They gain a +2 racial bonus on Sense Motive checks. In addition, when they acquire an animal companion, bonded mount, cohort, or familiar, that creature gains a +2 bonus to one ability score of the character's choice. This racial trait replaces the bonus feat trait.

"Animals have Intelligence scores of 1 or 2 (no creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher can be an animal)." - http://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/ability-scores#TOC-Intelligen ce-Int-

"Magical beasts are similar to animals but can have Intelligence scores higher than 2 (in which case the magical beast knows at least one language, but can't necessarily speak)." - http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/magical-beasts

I would assume that by using Eye for Talent to increase the Mount's Intelligence score by +2 that mount will gain the Magical Beast template. With this established a few questions comes to mind:

1. Does that mount gain the additional traits such as Darkvision, and Low-Light Vision?

2. Will you be able to change the creature from e.g a Horse to a Pegasus because of the template change or will you need to actually find one and train it first?

3. If this simply changes the template and monster type of the Mount to Magical Beast, is it still possible to change animal companion to one that have flying capability? Since Cavalier Levels counts as Druid levels for the sake of the animal companion.

Thanks,
Alester


1. No. It gains +2 to one ability score, as the Eye for Telent says. Nothing else. No template change. Arguably, if you increase its INT, you can call it a magical beast instead of an animal, but it doesn't transform into a magical beast with extra abilities.
1. No. A horse is a horse, of course of course, even if it's a talking horse, of course. Finding an unusually smart horse because you have an eye for the horse's talent doesn't mean that horse instantly grows wings. You want a pegasus, go find a pegasus.
3. Polymorph might do it. Or just go find what you want or buy what you want and then train it according to your wishes.


The team has clarified that animal companions (such as for druids) do not become Magical Beasts just because they get Int 3+ through an ability score increase or wearing a magic item. They can learn more tricks, their skills may improve, and they may even get better problem-solving ability, but they do not become sentient or change Type.

I don't know that other creatures are specifically covered, but I would believe that the same ruling applies.

The following include some discussion on the effects of increased Intelligence scores, though I think I'm missing at least a third blog somewhere.

http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lc1y

http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lejb?Animals-and-Their-Tricks

Silver Crusade

DM_Blake wrote:
2. Finding an unusually smart horse because you have an eye for the horse's talent doesn't mean that horse instantly grows wings.

Makes sense, since the Intelligence is added after selecting the template.. Somehow my previous reasoning seemed so logical before.

DM_Blake wrote:
3. Polymorph might do it. Or just go find what you want or buy what you want and then train it according to your wishes.

I did know I have those options, but Polymorph is quite expensive and is certainly not available at early levels, neither is buying. Right now I am checking my options of how early I actually could get a mount with flight.

The Exchange

Brother Alester wrote:
...I would assume that by using Eye for Talent to increase the Mount's Intelligence score by +2 that mount will gain the Magical Beast template. With this established...

Trouble here is that you haven't "established" it; you've inferred it based on a rather flimsy interpretation that might benefit you. Run your interpretation past your GM while he's consuming a beverage. If the beverage comes out his nose, your interpretation is not going to fly.

If the trait gave you the ability to create entirely new species, that would almost certainly be the central point of the feat - rather than a side benefit of being good at horse-trading.


Maybe your best bet is to find a herd of pegasi and use your eye for talent to spot the brightest of the bunch. Presumably, you could just have a lucky encounter some day if your GM is very generous and lets you find just what you're looking for. Bribing with pizza and beer (root beer if you're a youngun) might help.

Further arguably, "eye" for talent might not apply if you find just one pegasus in a field. That sounds more like "luck" for talent, while the actual term, "eye" for talent implies that you have the ability to scan through a large number of animals to find the best one in the group. Of course, that's just fluff and you and your GM could do it however you like.

Silver Crusade

Lincoln Hills wrote:

I will completely ignore the first part of the reasoning to make it look even more stupid and imply that you wouldn't include the important bits to your GM.

Letting a class ability that improves the stat of the animal companion to make it polymorph would be rather overpowered.

I know, I did say that it seemed more logical at first before discussing the possibilities openly, like:

DM_Blake wrote:
No template change. Arguably, if you increase its INT, you can call it a magical beast instead of an animal, but it doesn't transform into a magical beast with extra abilities.

is still be a good retort without discrediting the reasoning.

In any case, the Beast Rider have a specific list of Exotic Beasts that you can trade freely every level but the Base Cavalier class does not seem to have a list of allowed mounts. When I look at Animal Companions I will assume that for a Medium sized PC any Large or Huge creatures will be suitable and Small sized PCs will be able to take Medium and Large creatures, correct?
Will the size change later on dependant on the HD or what will that depend on? I read somewhere that there was a 7th Level advancement that changed the creature size.

The Exchange

Brother Alestar - I apologize for thinking you were unaware of the shakiness of the premise; one runs into folks on the boards who... well, you know.

I just didn't want you to start building an entire character concept on such shaky ground before comparing notes with your GM.

Silver Crusade

Lincoln Hills wrote:

Brother Alestar - I apologize for thinking you were unaware of the shakiness of the premise; one runs into folks on the boards who... well, you know.

I just didn't want you to start building an entire character concept on such shaky ground before comparing notes with your GM.

I understand your concern and I forgive you, that is why I posted this question on the forums before going all out on something I hadn't fully grasped.

Basically our GM is going to run Reign of Winter and on their Animal Companion list the Bear is listed, but I will assume that the Bear will only be medium sized and therefore not rideable until the proper advancement has been made?

The Exchange

...! The online guide says bears start as Small and grow to Medium size - never enter Large at all. Which is about right for, say, a Malaysian sun bear, but players tend to think of something a tad larger when they form a mental picture of a bear. And if you're wondering why they're listed as Beast Rider options when only a Small beast rider would (eventually) get to ride them, well, I'm wondering too.

Grand Lodge

Because halfling bear back riders rock (pun intended)

Silver Crusade

The GM and I came to an agreement to have me play the Beast Rider and have a Small-sized Polar Bear as the Druid animal companion Small Bear template, but not able to ride until 4th level whereas the Bear becomes Medium and a ride-able mount (since lions and tigers were at Medium for Medium sized Cavaliers).
Slightly nerfed early on, but it will even out with OoTSword bonus at 8th Level with Spirited Charge and Large Bear's Str bonus on charge attacks. Outflank and Paired Opportunists will probably help out really well too.

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