On a side note, I'm sure everyone is aware that the Advanced Class Guide playtest is live. Go show you're support! I'll still be here plugging along.
So the witch coven described in Pratchett's Discworld novels is not so holy? And the Enchanted one? ^^
What are the references you are refering to Bardess? Never heard of them.
Not read Pratchett's witch books, but they are very famous, especially in Europe I think. Looked them up; didn't know there were so many!
http://www.amazon.com/The-Discworld-Witch-novels/lm/RIKW6AI0Y68GZ
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witches_%28Discworld%29
The holy coven stuff looks good. I see no call for the coven champion to count as two coven members, but maybe a holy coven can be smaller, but then only get some of the abilities unless they have full membership? Then again, keep things simple.
You are doing an awful lot of work on all this, Elghinn. Don't overwork, and perhaps share some of the work? I know I'll want to do most of the editing once mine come up.
This is what I do, Starfox, and I tend to be the "head" editor with all this, as I'm also the keeper of all the MCAs. PLus, it nsure all the formatting is identical between all the CMAs too.
I had thought of just keeping Holy covens with a min of 3 like the Hag Coven, but figured that since evil tends to do things more quickly (less members) to gain power, good creatures tend to take a bit longer (thus the 5 members) but often can gain greater power (this the foresight spell i the coven spells.
Thoughts everyone else?
1) Drop to min 3 for Holy Coven, or stay at 5?
2) Not have Coven Champion count as two witches? Though I thought this was a nice simple benefit for them, as they are witches, but are also paladins, the front rank comabtants against the powers of darkness. OR we could just have it the when a coven champion is part of a Holy Coven, you only require three members, as they such specialized MCAs.
I've decided to pop in quick again and just say something that the MCP has agreed on, and that we feel our fans and contributors should hear.
We've decided to avoid making any and all MCA or MCP references or comments in the playtest forums, will NOT be responding to any, and encourage you guys to avoid making such references.
It would be bad form, unprofessional, and honestly? We're hoping Paizo pulls out some more incredible work, because the whole POINT of this project was, and is, hybrids! The big guys picking it up at last is, frankly, awesome.
With this said, some of us are going and making comments individually- but as PLAYTESTERS. We want to help paizo make the ACG the best it can be.
After all, it's not a competition, and end of the day, without Paizo we'd never be here. All glory to the golem.
Thank you for listening!
(( Also, at the rate things are going, you can expect IT within the year- mid january, at latest. ))
We've decided to avoid making any and all MCA or MCP references or comments in the playtest forums, will NOT be responding to any, and encourage you guys to avoid making such references.
While I agree it would be in poor taste to advertise all over the playtest forums, I don't see any point in telling people not to make comparisons. Our work has two years times five people plus countless forum contributors behind it. Paizo's has... well, we have no idea. At least one person who thought that reskinning existing domains would contribute something of value to the core ruleset?
I'm not going to go littering the playtest with self-aggrandizement. I'm probably not going to go to the playtest forums at all. Honestly, I wish Paizo payed more attention to fine-tuning its systems and less to bloating said systems.
Carry on :)
You are doing an awful lot of work on all this, Elghinn. Don't overwork, and perhaps share some of the work? I know I'll want to do most of the editing once mine come up.
If Elghinn decides it's too much work, we're all here to lend him a hand. He knows all it takes is going 'Hey, I need some ideas/balancing thoughts'. 'till then looks like he has it more than covered.
He is our head guy, if he asked at least one of us would jump right in to help :P
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And on that note, I'd like to request more input from Raider, Flak, and Carmanbeck on all these MCAs we're running through. I think we'd all benefit from it. As much as I like working the thread, and working with all the fellow MCA-mates here, more from the orignial guys who helped develop the system would be great! That's how we all started it after all. But I know you guys are busy with various things, so when you can, that would be appreciated. :D
Aside from that, I'm good!
Regarding the Playtest, I think those who have worked with us here have every right to compare what we're doing here with what's going on in the playtest. Only we 5 should avoid referencing our stuff, but we should definiately join the cause a "Playtesters" to give feeback in an attempt to make these hybrids the best they can be.
Carry on!
Coven Champion
Anything on the Holy Coven stuff above?
And on that note, I'd like to request more input from Raider, Flak, and Carmanbeck on all these MCAs we're running through. I think we'd all benefit from it. As much as I like working the thread, and working with all the fellow MCA-mates here, more from the orignial guys who helped develop the system would be great! That's how we all started it after all. But I know you guys are busy with various things, so when you can, that would be appreciated. :D
Toss me somethin' to work on, then. You know what I like! ;3
Well, just watch the thread and when we hit "Wizard" or "Sorcerer" MCAs, whether new or reworks of the wiki MCAs, then jump in! :D
I am trying to follow a sequence here after all.
1) Working in order through the new MCA queue.
2) Going alphabetically through the wiki to go over those that need it.
Elghinn put me down for a Ninja/ Sorceror not exactly sure exactly where I am going to go with it but should get my name in the line
Also I am amazed at all the negativity about the "hybrid" classes, it is like people were expecting 10 completely new base classes
Will do! Name yet?
@ACG: I think they were. They want something like the Magus (Ftr/Wiz) for all the suggested combos. I think there are lots of people who also like them. Give a week and you'll see a lot more feedback from people who put some good play time into them. It's only been a day after all.
QUEUE UPDATE
Wondrous Detonator – Magus/Alchemist (Lindley Court)****
“Cleric Rogue” – Clr/Rog (Starfox)
Spartan - Ftr/Ora (ecw1701)
??? - Nin/Sor (Browman)
*FYI, I've thrown Browman in after ecw1701 because he hasn't tossed in an MCA idea since his Silent Hunter, which was 13 MCAs ago. Just trying to spread out the thread time for everyone. I've even got my name in the ring for a few, but have been pushing mine back in favor of newcomers and those with few MCA ideas on the list. I can lay out the WHOLE queue (top to bottom) if anyone is interested.
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How do people feel about a ninja/ sorcerer that can infuse poisons into his spells?
How do people feel about a ninja/ sorcerer that can infuse poisons into his spells?
6th level spell max. Should lower DC of the spell, doubly so if related to the poison.
Otherwise, workable.
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I think we'll go with this change to Holy Coven. Makes it still function with the 5 members of the coven, but once 10th, a coven champion makes a difference as to the required make-up of a holy coven, and thus making them desirable by holy covens.
Holy Coven (Ex): The coven champion gains the holy coven hex (see New Hexes) and may join a holy coven (see Holy Covens). The coven champion must have the coven leader hex to establish a holy coven (see New Hexes), as normal. At 10th level, any holy coven a coven champion establishes or joins requires only three members for (including herself) it to function. This ability replaces the hex gained at 1st level.
And here's the Updated version for final checks.
Not every witch coven is malevolent, nor does witchcraft itself have to be evil, though these are the most commonly held opinions of the people. Contrary to this misconception, small covens of goodly witches secretly labor to defend the boundaries of this world from the vile horrors lying beyond our mortal realm, while simultaneously enduring the hate and prejudice of those they seek to protect. Thus, there are those who stand as guardians with the sole responsibility of protecting these holy covens, and charged to teach the outside world through their deeds that witches can become friends and allies in the common struggle against wickedness. The coven champion, blessed by mysterious eldritch powers, is such as these, for she stands as a model of virtue while operating in an unorthodox yet holy manner.
Primary Class: Paladin.
Secondary Class: Witch.
Alignment: Lawful good.
Hit Dice: d8.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The coven champion may select three witch skills to add to her class skills in addition to the normal paladin class skills. The coven champion gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 2 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The coven champion is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with all types of armor (heavy, light, and medium), and with shields (except tower shields).
Spellcasting: The coven champion casts divine spells drawn the paladin spell list, and adds the following witch spells to her list of the indicated levels: 1st level—cause fear, charm person, command, hex ward**, hypnotism, identify, ill omen*, lock gaze†, mask dweomer*, peacebond†, remove sickness**; 2nd level—adoration†, augury, daze monster, delay pain**, enthrall, gentle repose, ghostly disguise**, hold person, qualm†, scare, see invisibility; 3rd level—arcane sight, clairaudience/clairvoyance, fly, glyph of warding, heroism, locate weakness†, remove disease, share senses*, suggestion, twilight knife*, witness**; 4th level—age resistance (lesser)**, charm monster, confusion, curse of magic negation**, debilitating portent†, detect scrying, divination, fear, locate creature, minor creation.
In addition, the coven champion gains the following as her 5th and 6th level spell lists: 5th level—ancestral memory‡, atonement, banish seeming*, breath of life, cleanse*, commune, contact other planes, cure critical wounds, disrupting weapon, flame strike, hallow, hold monster, holy ice**, hostile juxtaposition†, pillar of life*, planar ally (lesser), raise dead, reprobation**, rest eternal*, righteous might, serenity**, spell immunity, spell resistance, telepathic bond, undeath ward±; 6th level—age resistance**, animate objects, banishment, dispel magic (greater), find the path, forbiddance, geas/quest, glyph or warding (greater), guards and wards, heroes’ feast, heroism (greater), holy word, joyful rapture**, legend lore, bull’s strength (mass), cure light wounds (mass), eagle’s splendor (mass), owl’s wisdom (mass), suggestion (mass), overwhelming presence**, symbol of persuasion, symbol of sealing**, true seeing, undeath to death. (*Advanced Player’s Guide, **Ultimate Magic, †Ultimate Combat, ‡The Inner Sea World Guide, ±Dungeons of Galorian)
A coven champion otherwise learns, prepares and casts spells as a paladin equal to her coven champion level. She also receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Charisma score.
Detect Magic (Sp): At will, a coven champion can use detect magic, as the spell. A coven champion can, as a move action, concentrate on a single item or individual within 60 feet and determine if it radiates magic, learning the strength of its aura as if having studied it for 3 rounds. While focusing on one individual or object, the paladin does not detect magic in any other object or individual within range.
Holy Coven (Ex): The coven champion gains the holy coven hex (see New Hexes) and may join a holy coven (see Holy Covens). The coven champion must have the coven leader hex to establish a holy coven (see New Hexes), as normal. At 10th level, any holy coven a coven champion establishes or joins requires only three members for (including herself) it to function. This ability replaces the hex gained at 1st level.
Smite Evil (Su): This is exactly like the paladin ability of the same name, except that a coven champion gains an increased bonus to damage attack against evil fey creatures instead of undead.
Detect Evil (Sp): This is exactly like the paladin ability of the same name, except that the coven champion gains this ability at 2nd level.
Merciful Hex: A coven champion may select any witch hex in place of a mercy. At 12th level, she may select a hex or major hex. At 18th level, a coven champion can select a hex, major hex, or grand hex. She cannot select any hex more than once, unless specifically stated. Using a hex consumes one use of the coven champions’ lay on hands ability, without further effects. A coven champion cannot select the following hexes: blight, coven, poison steep, unnerve beasts, cook people, infected wounds, waxen image, dire prophecy. If hexes from any other source are in use, the coven champion cannot select any hex of a chaotic or evil nature. This otherwise functions as and replaces mercy.
Eldritch Bond (Sp): Upon reaching 5th level, a coven champion forms a bond with the eldritch forces which grant her powers. This bond can take one of two forms. Once the form is chosen, it cannot be changed.
The first type of bond is with a consecrated weapon. The coven champion’s bonded weapon counts as an athame, or witch’s ceremonial dagger for the purpose of participating in coven rites that have an athame as its prerequisite.
This form of bond allows the coven champion to enhance her weapon as a standard action by calling upon the aid of an eldritch spirit for 1 minute per paladin level. When called, the spirit causes the weapon to shed light as a torch. At 5th level, this spirit grants the weapon a +1 enhancement bonus. At 8th level, and every three levels thereafter, the weapon gains another +1 enhancement bonus, to a maximum of +6 at 20th level. These bonuses can be added to the weapon, stacking with existing weapon bonuses to a maximum of +5.
At 5th level, these bonuses can be used to add any of the following weapon properties: axiomatic, brilliant energy, cunning, hexing#, hexing burst#, holy, keen, merciful, speed, spell storing, and transformative*. Adding these properties consumes an amount of bonus equal to the property's cost (see Table: Melee Weapon Special Abilities). These bonuses are added to any properties the weapon already has, but duplicate abilities do not stack. If the weapon is not magical, at least a +1 enhancement bonus must be added before any other properties can be added. (*Advanced Player’s Guide, #Rite Publishing’s 101 Weapon Properties)
At 9th level, the coven champion’s weapon can receive the powers of any magical athame% for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 the coven champion’s level. (%Super Genius Games’ #1 With a Bullet Point: 5 Magic Witch’s Daggers)
The bonus and properties granted by the spirit are determined when the spirit is called and cannot be changed until the spirit is called again. The eldritch spirit imparts no bonuses if the weapon is held by anyone other than the coven champion but resumes giving bonuses if returned to the coven champion. These bonuses apply to only one end of a double weapon. A coven champion can use this ability once per day at 4th level, twice per day at 9th level, and one additional time per day for every four levels thereafter, to a total of four times per day at 17th level.
If a weapon bonded with an eldritch spirit is destroyed, the coven champion loses the use of this ability for 30 days, or until she gains a level, whichever comes first. During this 30-day period, the paladin takes a –1 penalty on attack and weapon damage rolls and cannot use any hex except coven. The ritual of bonding with a new consecrated weapon costs 200 gp per coven champion’s level. A coven champion must commune with the eldritch spirit within her consecrated weapon to learn and prepare her spells, as a witch would her familiar.
The second type of bond allows a coven champion to gain the service of an eldritch mount which also serves and an intermediary between her and her eldritch patron. This functions as summon monster III, except the duration is permanent and the coven champion can only gain the service of a single creature and that creature must be a magical beast or it must be a fey animal. Once selected, the choice is set, but it may be changed whenever the coven champion gains a level. Upon reaching 7th level, and every two levels thereafter, the level of the summon monster spell increases by one, to a maximum of summon monster IX at 17th level. Once per day, as a full-round action, a coven champion may magically call his magical mount to his side. This ability is the equivalent of a spell of a level equal to one-third the coven champion’s level. The mount immediately appears adjacent to the coven champion. A coven champion can use this ability once per day at 4th level, twice per day at 9th level, and one additional time per day for every four levels thereafter, for a total of four times per day at 17th level.
At 11th level, the eldritch mount gains the celestial template.
At 15th level, the eldritch mount gains spell resistance equal to the coven champion’s level + 11.
A coven champion’s eldritch mount otherwise functions as a witch’s familiar, teaching spells to and storing spells for its master. It also gains the empathic link, store spells, deliver touch spells, and scry on familiar abilities at the indicated levels (p. 83 of the Core Rulebook), and counts both as a familiar and a bonded mount for all prerequisites. Should the eldritch mount die or be banished, the coven champion may not summon another mount for 30 days or until she gains a level, whichever comes first. During this 30-day period, the coven champion takes a –1 penalty on attack and weapon damage rolls and can’t cast any spells. The ritual for summoning a new eldritch mount costs 200 gp per coven champion’s level. This ability replaces divine bond.
Channel Positive Energy (Su): This is exactly like the paladin ability of the same name, except that the coven champion gains channel positive energy at 5th level.
Aura of Vengeful Curse (Sp): At 11th level, a coven champion can expend two uses of her smite evil ability to cast bestow curse on all evil enemies within 10 feet, as a free action. Each enemy can be affected by a different curse, with each effect lasting for 1 minute. This ability replaces aura of justice.
Aura of Witchcraft (Su): At 14th level, a coven champion’s weapons are treated as magic for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction. Any attack made against an enemy within 10 feet of her is treated as magic for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction. This ability functions only while the coven champion is conscious, not if she is unconscious or dead. This ability replaces aura of faith.
Aura of Eldritch Virtue (Su): At 17th level, a coven champion gains DR 5/magic and immunity to compulsion spells and spell-like abilities. Each ally within 10 feet of her gains a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against compulsion effects. This ability functions only while the coven champion is conscious, not if she is unconscious or dead. This ability replaces aura of righteousness.
Chosen of Holy Magic (Su): At 20th level, the coven champion’s DR increases to 10/magic. Whenever she uses smite evil and successfully strikes an evil outsider or fey, the creature is also subject to a single-target holy word with a caster level equal to 10 + her coven champion’s level. After the banishment effect and the damage from the attack are resolved, the smite immediately ends. In addition, whenever she uses lay on hands to heal a creature, she heals the maximum possible amount. This ability replaces holy champion.
NEW HEXES
The following new hexes may be selected by any creature with the hex class feature.
Coven Leader (Ex): The witch counts as a hag for the purpose of creating a hag’s coven. If the witch is of good alignment, she may form a holy coven and serve as its coven leader. The witch must have the coven or the holy coven hex to choose this major hex.
Holy Coven (Ex): The witch is considered a member of a holy coven (see Holy Covens). This holy coven must contain at least one witch of 10th level or higher with the coven leader hex. In addition, whenever the witch with this hex is within 30 feet of another witch with this hex or an allied divine spellcaster of good alignment, she can use the aid another action to grant a +1 bonus to the other witch’s or divine spellcaster’s caster level for 1 round. This bonus applies to the witch’s spells and all of her hexes.
NEW MERCIES
The following new mercies may be selected by any creature with the mercy class feature as a 12th-level mercy.
Asleep: The paladin’s lay on hands acts as break enchantment on any sleep spell or effect, included the eternal slumber witch’s hex.
Transmuted: The paladin’s lay on hands acts as break enchantment on any transmutation spell or effect, such as baleful polymorph.
HOLY COVENS
Covens are typically malevolent gatherings meant to enhance the power of hags or those who join it. With such a threat to the common good of all peoples, new covens have arisen whose soul purpose is to battle against these foul servants of dark patrons.
Holy covens consist of powerful witches who serve the patrons of light and vehemently battle against the darkness. Only good-aligned witches may belong to a holy coven. When five witches of any good alignment gather, they can form a holy coven to gain increased magical ability. Any combination of good-aligned witches can form a coven, but only a good-aligned witch of 10th level or higher with the coven leader hex may serve as the coven leader of such holy gatherings.
Whenever all five witches of good-alignment of a particular coven are within 10 feet of one another, all five of them can work together to use any of the following spell-like abilities: break enchantment, breath of life, clairaudience/clairvoyance, commune, contact other plane, control weather, curse of magic negation (DC 17), divine illumination (DC 16), divination, euphoric tranquility (DC 21), forbiddance (DC 19), foresight, grove of respite, remove curse, serenity (DC 19), speak with dead, vision.
All five witches must take a full-round action to take part in this form of cooperative magic. All coven spell-like abilities function at CL 9th (or at the highest CL available to the most powerful witch in the coven). The save DCs are Intelligence-based, and function as if with a Intelligence score of 16 unless one of the witches has a higher Intelligence score, in which case the spell-like ability DCs are adjusted by that witch's Intelligence modifier.
At the GM's discretion, certain more powerful holy covens might have additional spell-like abilities.
Table: Coven Champion
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th
1st +0 +2 +0 +2 Aura of good, detect magic, holy coven, — — — — — —
smite evil 1/day
2nd +1 +3 +0 +3 Detect evil, divine grace, lay on hands — — — — — —
3rd +2 +3 +1 +3 Aura of courage, merciful hex — — — — — —
4th +3 +4 +1 +4 Channel positive energy, smite evil 2/day — — — — — —
5th +3 +4 +1 +4 Eldritch bond 1 — — — — —
6th +4 +5 +2 +5 Merciful hex 1 — — — — —
7th +5 +5 +2 +5 Smite evil 3/day 1 — — — — —
8th +6/+1 +6 +2 +6 Aura of resolve 1 1 — — — —
9th +6/+1 +6 +3 +6 Merciful hex 2 1 — — — —
10th +7/+2 +7 +3 +7 Smite evil 4/day 2 1 1 — — —
11th +8/+3 +7 +3 +7 Aura of vengeful curse 2 1 1 — — —
12th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Merciful hex 2 2 1 1 — —
13th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Smite evil 5/day 3 2 1 1 — —
14th +10/+5 +9 +4 +9 Aura of witchcraft 3 2 2 1 1 —
15th +11/+6/+1 +9 +5 +9 Merciful hex 3 2 2 1 1 —
16th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Smite evil 6/day 3 3 2 2 1 1
17th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Aura of eldritch virtue 4 3 2 2 1 1
18th +13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 Merciful hex 4 3 3 2 2 1
19th +14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 Smite evil 7/day 4 3 3 2 2 1
20th +15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Chosen of holy magic 4 4 3 3 2 2
@Poison Infused Spells for Ninja/Sorcerer
That would be very interesting, and 6th level max yes. You will need to decide whether you want a 1/2 caster or hybrid caster (6th level), as you are combining a no caster with a full caster.
If you go hybrid, likely being able to infuse spells should happen at 3/6/9/12/15/18 for each level of spell, and not when they can actually first cast that level of spell.
Then you'd need to decide on how the ability functions: is it a magical poison (like the poison spell) that infuses the spells, or is the MCA allowed to actually infuse a spell with a poison he has in hand, thus allowing her to purchase and use specific types of poison to good effect? I would vote for thew latter, likely a swift action or move action to infuse a spell with a poison inhand, affecting only the target. So this wouldn't work on something like wall of fire.
I'll be interested to see this class feature developed.
Detonator Mage
What about the Detonator Mage tweaks I suggested HERE?
Let's keep moving people...
EDIT: Once Coven Champion and Detonator Mage are done, we will move on to Starfox's Clr/Rog MCA, and the Dark Stalker from the wiki.
I like the changes. the new discoveries seem good.
Detonator Mage
What about the Detonator Mage tweaks I suggested HERE?Let's keep moving people...
I like it, but you better specify that the fire aura only applies to melee attacks.
Yes I'm still here, hi raider and flak. It's good seeing you guys around!
I like it, but you better specify that the fire aura only applies to melee attacks.
Will do!
I think that a holy coven should require 3 witches. A 10th level witch as a leader should be a fair replacement for an hag, after all
So reduce a Holy Coven to min of 3, requiringa Witch of 10th or higher.
Then change thiis to to this:
Holy Coven (Ex): The coven champion gains the holy coven hex (see New Hexes) and may join a holy coven (see Holy Covens). The coven champion must have the coven leader hex to establish a holy coven (see New Hexes), as normal. This ability replaces the hex gained at 1st level.
"This ability and detect magic replace divine health".
By the way, it would appear that we're quoted in the ACG threads, like it or not. Actually, their wish list made me decide to create the Metamorphic Thespian (Summoner/Bard) at last. If I can't have my true shapeshifter class otherwise, I'll make it myself.
Fixed the swap to divine health.
By the way, it would appear that we're quoted in the ACG threads, like it or not.
Where? Linkify please, there are too many threads and posts to find. Infact, if there are mentions of us, it'd be nice to know where. :D Just to see what people are saying. At least for me.
Alright, probably going to move on to new MCAs tomorrow.
Lindley, how do you feel about the Detonator Mage?
Certain magical soldiers devote themselves to warfare; not to the sword, but to explosives and all manner of volatile substances. With an admirable (or perhaps cautious) sense of self-sacrifice, the detonator mage sports the alchemist’s talent for blasting through foes, while possessing an inner powder keg of volatile magical prowess that swells and grows until it culminates in the ability to unleash it in a single explosive blast. Detonator mages have a knowledge of alchemical substances, weaponry, and spells, making them a truly powerful and versatile in combat.
Primary Class: Magus.
Secondary Class: Alchemist.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Dice: d8.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The wondrous detonator may select three alchemist skills to add to his class skills in addition to the normal magus class skills. The wondrous detonator gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 2 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The wondrous detonator is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, bombs, and with light armor, but not with shields.
Alchemy (Su): At 1st level, a detonator mage gains the alchemist’s ability to create mundane alchemical substances such as alchemist’s fire and smokesticks. When using Craft (alchemy) to create an alchemical item, a detonator mage gains a competence bonus equal to her class level on the Craft (alchemy) check. In addition, a detonator mage can use Craft (alchemy) to identify potions as if using detect magic. She must hold the potion for 1 round to make such a check. This ability replaces cantrips.
Conflagragen (Su): At 1st level, a detonator mage discovers how to create a conflagragen, mutagen-like mixture that he can imbibe in order to enhance his naturally occurring volatile energies. It takes 1 hour to brew a dose of conflagragen, and once brewed, it remains potent until used. A detonator mage can only maintain one dose of conflagragen at a time—if he brews a second dose, any existing conflagragen becomes inert. As with a bomb, a conflagragen that is not in a detonator mage’s possession becomes inert until a detonator mage picks it up again.
Once a detonator mage brews a conflagragen, it’s a standard action to drink it. Upon being imbibed, the conflagragen causes the arcane energies within the detonator mage to surge, granting him resist fire 10 and a fire aura that deals 1d6 points of fire damage to any creature that make a successful melee attack against him for 10 minutes per detonator mage level. While the conflagragen is in effect, the detonator mage gains vulnerability to cold. When the duration of a conflagragen ends, it results in a fiery blast in a 5-foot-radius spread that deals 1d6 points of fire damager per level of the detonator mage (maximum 5d6). A detonator mage can choose to end his conflagragen as a standard action at anytime, prior to its expiration. Any creature that takes damage from the fire aura or is caught in the blast of an expired conflagragen can make a Reflex saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 the detonator mage’s level + the detonator mages Intelligence modifier) for half damage.
A non-detonator mage who drinks a conflagragen must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 the detonator mage’s level + the detonator mages Intelligence modifier) or become nauseated for 1 hour—a non-detonator mage can never gain the benefit of a conflagragen, but a detonator mage can gain the effects of another detonator mage’s conflagragen if he drinks it. (Although if the other detonator mage creates a different conflagragen, the effects of the “stolen” conflagragen immediately cease.) The effects of a conflagragen do not stack. Whenever a detonator mage drinks a mutagen, the effects of any previous conflagragen immediately end. The infuse mutagen discovery and the persistent mutagen class ability apply to conflagragens. This ability replaces spell combat.
Munitions Pool (Su): At 1st level, a detonator mage gains a reservoir of mystical arcane energy that he can draw upon to fuel his powers and create explosive effects. This munitions pool has a number of points equal to 1/2 his detonator mage level (minimum 1) + his Intelligence modifier. The pool refreshes once per day when the detonator mage prepares his spells.
At 1st level, a detonator mage can expend 1 point from his arcane pool to create an arcane bomb. Arcane bombs are unstable, and if not used in the round they are created, they are wasted. Spending the point, creating, and throwing an arcane bomb requires a standard action that provokes an attack of opportunity. Thrown bombs have a range of 20 feet and use the Throw Splash Weapon special attack. Bombs are considered weapons and can be selected using feats such as Point-Blank Shot and Weapon Focus. On a direct hit, a detonator mage’s arcane bomb inflicts 1d6 points of fire damage + additional damage equal to the detonator mage’s Intelligence modifier. The damage of a detonator mage’s bomb increases by 1d6 points at 4th level and every three detonator mage levels thereafter (this bonus damage is not multiplied on a critical hit or by using feats such as Vital Strike). Splash damage from a detonator mage’s arcane bomb is always equal to the bomb’s minimum damage (so if the bomb would deal 2d6+4 points of fire damage on a direct hit, its splash damage would be 6 points of fire damage). Those caught in the splash damage can attempt a Reflex save for half damage. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the detonator mage’s level + the detonator mage’s Intelligence modifier. An arcane bomb otherwise functions as an alchemist’s bomb.
At 3rd level, a detonator mage can expend 1 additional munitions point when creating an arcane bomb as a swift action to grant it a +1 enhancement bonus. For every five levels beyond 3rd, the bomb gains another +1 enhancement bonus, to a maximum of +4 at 18th level. Multiple uses of this ability do not stack with themselves.
At 5th level, these bonuses can be used to add any of the following weapon properties: corrosive, corrosive burst, flaming, flaming burst, frost, icy burst, shock, shocking burst, or thundering.
Adding these properties consumes an amount of bonus equal to the property’s base price modifier. These properties can only be added to an arcane bomb, but duplicates do not stack. If the bomb is not magical, at least a +1 enhancement bonus must be added before any other properties can be added. These bonuses and properties are decided when the munitions pool point is spent and cannot be changed until the next time the detonator mage uses this ability. These bonuses do not function if the arcane bomb is wielded by anyone other than the detonator mage.
A detonator mage can only enhance one arcane bomb in this way at one time. If he uses this ability again, the first use immediately ends. This ability modifies the magus’s arcane pool and replaces improved spell recall, knowledge pool, improved spell recall.
Explosive Spellstrike: This is exactly like the magus’s spellstrike ability, except that the when a detonator mage casts a spell with the range of “touch”, he choose to deliver the spell by making a successful ranged attack with his arcane bomb instead, and only affects the target of the bomb.
Magus Arcana: This is exactly like the magus ability of the same name, except that a detonator mage may select an alchemist bomb discovery in place of a magus arcana. At 6th level, a detonator mage may select an alchemist extract discoveries in place of a magus arcana.
Intrinsic Rupture (Su): At 8th level, a detonator has learned to blend his prowess with explosives with his natural arcane might. As a swift action, a detonator mage can expend 1 point from his munitions pool to increase the range of his arcane bomb’s range to 30 feet and its damage area to include all creatures within 5 feet of the target. In addition, a detonator mage may expend 2 additional munitions points to apply a second bomb discovery to his arcane bombs. This ability replaces improved spell combat.
Greater Intrinsic Rupture (Su): At 14th level, a detonator mage can expend 1 point from his munitions pool to increase the range of his arcane bomb’s range to 40 feet and its damage area to include all creatures within 10 feet of the target. In addition, a detonator mage can expend 2 additional munitions points to apply a third bomb discovery to his arcane bombs. This ability replaces greater spell combat.
True Detonation (Su): At 20th level, a detonator mage’s volatile energies reach their pinnacle. The detonator mage gains fire immunity. In addition, as a standard action, a detonator mage can expend 4 munitions points to gather the volatile energies within him and release it in a fiery blast that erupts from his body. Once the munitions points are expended, the detonator mage can immediately trigger the explosion, or delay it for up to 4 rounds, at which time it is released. This blast is similar to the fireball spell, except that it detonates in 40-foot-radius spread that deals 20d6 points of fire damage (Reflex save for half damage). Using this ability is physically taxing, causing the detonator mage to become fatigued for 2d6 rounds. If the detonator mage uses this ability while fatigued, he immediately becomes exhausted and takes 1 point of temporary Constitution damage. This ability replaces true magus.
NEW DISCOVERIES
The following new discoveries may be selected only by the detonator mage multiclass archetype.
Grand Conflagragen (Su): The detonator mage’s conflagragen now grants fire resistance 30, his fire aura deals 32d6 points of fire damage, and his fiery blast deals 1d6 points of fire damager per detonator mage level (max 15d6) in a 20-foot-radius spread. The detonator mage gains vulnerability to cold as long as the conflagragen persists. A detonator mage must be at least 16th level and have the greater conflagragen discovery to select this discovery.
Greater Conflagragen (Su): The detonator mage’s conflagragen now grants fire resistance 20, his fire aura deals 2d6 points of fire damage, and his fiery blast deals 1d6 points of fire damager per detonator mage level (max 10d6) in a 10-foot-radius spread. The detonator mage gains vulnerability to cold as long as the conflagragen persists. A detonator mage must be at least 12th level and have the conflagragen class feature to select this discovery.
Table: Detonator Mage
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th
1st +0 +2 +0 +2 Alchemy, arcane bomb 1d6, conflagragen, 1 — — — — —
munitions pool
2nd +1 +3 +0 +3 Explosive spellstrike 2 — — — — —
3rd +2 +3 +1 +3 Magus arcana 3 — — — — —
4th +3 +4 +1 +4 Arcane bomb 2d6 3 1 — — — —
5th +3 +4 +1 +4 Bonus feat 4 2 — — — —
6th +4 +5 +2 +5 Magus arcana 4 3 — — — —
7th +5 +5 +2 +5 Arcane bomb 3d6, medium armor 4 3 1 — — —
8th +6/+1 +6 +2 +6 Intrinsic rapture 4 4 2 — — —
9th +6/+1 +6 +3 +6 Magus arcana 5 4 3 — — —
10th +7/+2 +7 +3 +7 Arcane bomb 4d6, fighter training 5 4 3 1 — —
11th +8/+3 +7 +3 +7 Bonus feat 5 4 4 2 — —
12th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Magus arcana 5 5 4 3 — —
13th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Arcane bomb 5d6 5 5 4 3 1 —
14th +10/+5 +9 +4 +9 Greater intrinsic rapture 5 5 4 4 2 —
15th +11/+6/+1 +9 +5 +9 Magus arcana 5 5 5 4 3 —
16th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Arcane bomb 6d6, counterstrike 5 5 5 4 3 1
17th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Bonus feat 5 5 5 4 4 2
18th +13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 Magus arcana 5 5 5 5 4 3
19th +14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 Arcane bomb 7d6, greater spell access 5 5 5 5 5 4
20th +15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 True detonation 5 5 5 5 5 5
Here
And here, an hour ago, with an actual link to our wiki:
Sadly the thread was locked immediately after that post as the thread, titled "Underwhelmed..." was seen as unproductive to the play test:
I'm locking this thread, as "I'm not going to playtest this" isn't a productive line of discussion.
Fair enough.
[EDIT]Oh - and found another link to our Wiki in "The point of Hybrids" thread:
LINK[/EDIT]
Hmmm, do you think that was the reason? Or was it because someone pointed to our wikisite during the Hybrid playtest? :D
EDIT: It would appear that Caedwyr is a fan! There may be far more people aware of us than we think.
I would hazard a guess that most frequent users of the forums are at least aware that this project exists.
Also is anyone else looking forward to the craziness that we will be able to do with those 10 new classes for MCAs? Bloodrager crossed with basically anything could be awesome.
I would hazard a guess that most frequent users of the forums are at least aware that this project exists.
I'm not so sure. Some people do not "descend" into the depths of homebrew... [EDIT - oh, yeah, we keep appearing in the messageboards column on the font page....]
Also is anyone else looking forward to the craziness that we will be able to do with those 10 new classes for MCAs? Bloodrager crossed with basically anything could be awesome.
Sure. I think some were mentioned on the previous page.
No prob! It was a group effort.
Alright, Starfox, your Clr/Rog is on the block! Please post it when you can.
In the mean time, the next wiki MCA by Byrdology. It's the same mash up as the current Slayer playtest class (I believe), so let's see how different it is.
While many rangers stalk their prey from blinds or behind bushes, some prefer to seclude themselves in the shadows. Unlike other rangers, dark stalkers are not skilled in combat against specific races. Instead, they have become adept in the art of the sneak attack, which allows them to engage any opponent equally. Through their use of roguish tricks, stealth, and ambush, they can avoid needless injury to themselves or their quarry. While not as adept in various terrains as other rangers, dark stalkers compensate for this shortcoming through sudden and devastating strikes against their foes.
Primary Class: Ranger.
Secondary Class: Rogue.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d10.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The dark stalker may select three rogue skills to add to his class skills in addition to the normal ranger class skills, one of which must be Disable Device. The dark stalker gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 6 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The dark stalker is proficient with all simple and martial weapons plus the hand crossbow, with light armor, but not with shields (except tower shields).
Spellcasting: The dark stalker casts divine spells drawn from the ranger spell list, and adds the following spells to that list at the indicated spell levels: 1st level—darkness, illusion of calm, vanish; 2nd level—blur, invisibility; 3rd level—deeper darkness, displacement; 4th level—invisibility (greater). A dark stalker otherwise casts spells as a ranger equal to his dark stalker level.
Sneak Attack: At 1st level, a dark stalker gains the rogues sneak attack ability, except that the extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and increases by 1d6 at 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter, to a maximum of 5d6 at 20th level. This ability replaces favored enemy.
Trapfinding: At 1st level, a dark stalker gains the rogue’s trapfinding ability. This ability replaces wild empathy.
Rogue Talents: At 3rd level and every three levels thereafter, a dark stalker gains a rogue talent for which she qualifies. A dark stalker treats his level as his rogue level for the purpose of qualifying for talents with level-dependent requirements and calculating the effects of any talent or rogue ability he's chosen. This ability and advanced talents replace favored terrain.
Hunter’s Bond (Ex): This is exactly like the ranger ability of the same name, except that the dark stalker must select an animal companion, one specifically adept at stealth, such as a small or big cat, an eagle, or similar animal.
Ambush (Ex): At 4th level, a dark stalker becomes fully practiced in the art of ambushing. When he acts in the surprise round, he can take a move action, standard action, and swift action during the surprise round, not just a move or standard action. This ability replaces woodland stride.
Quarry (Ex): This is exactly like the ranger ability of the same name, except that it corresponds to a specific individual creature, not a creature type.
Advanced Talents: At 12th level, a dark stalker can choose an advanced rogue talent whenever he could choose a rogue talent, or when she selects the Extra Rogue Talent feat. The dark stalker adds the following rogue abilities to the list of advanced talents he may select: Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny Dodge. A dark stalker must select uncanny dodge before selecting improved uncanny dodge.
Camouflage (Ex): This is exactly like the ranger ability of the same name, except that the dark stalker can use the Stealth skill to hide as long as he is within 10 feet of an area of dim light. A dark stalker cannot however, hide in his own shadow.
Improved Quarry (Ex): This is exactly like the ranger ability of the same name, except that it corresponds to a specific individual creature, not a creature type.
Hide in Plain Sight (Ex): This is exactly like the ranger ability of the same name, except that the dark stalker can use the Stealth skill even while being observed as long as he is within 10 feet of an area of dim light. A dark stalker cannot however, hide in his own shadow.
Table: Dark Stalker
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 1st 2nd 3rd 4th
1st +1 +2 +2 +0 Sneak attack +1d6, track, trapfinding — — — —
2nd +2 +3 +3 +0 Combat style feat — — — —
3rd +3 +3 +3 +1 Endurance, rogue talent — — — —
4th +4 +4 +4 +1 Hunter’s bond 0 — — —
5th +5 +4 +4 +1 Sneak attack +2d6 1 — — —
6th +6/+1 +5 +5 +2 Combat style feat, rogue talent 1 — — —
7th +7/+2 +5 +5 +2 Ambush 1 0 — —
8th +8/+3 +6 +6 +2 Swift tracker 1 1 — —
9th +9/+4 +6 +6 +3 Evasion, rogue talent 2 1 — —
10th +10/+5 +7 +7 +3 Combat style feat, sneak attack +3d6 2 1 0 —
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +7 +3 Quarry 2 1 1 —
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +8 +4 Advanced talents, camouflage, rogue talent 2 2 1 —
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +8 +4 3 2 1 0
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +9 +4 Combat style feat 3 2 1 1
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +9 +5 Rogue talent, sneak attack +4d6 3 2 2 1
16th +16/+11/+7/+2 +10 +10 +5 Improved evasion 3 3 2 1
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +10 +5 Hide in plain sight 4 3 2 1
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +11 +6 Combat style feat, rogue talent 4 3 2 2
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +11 +6 Improved quarry 4 3 3 2
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +12 +6 Sneak attack +5d6, master hunter 4 4 3 3
While everything looks good, it is just a straight mash-up of ranger/ rogue and could probably use some uniqueness.
back for the most part tell my next movement sorry i missed my own MCA
#dark starker
Hunter’s Bond seems like this is a little vague i would just list out what ACs can and cannot take and possibly adding a new one
@Browman: I agree, needs more uniqueness and synergy. Suggestions? Thought about looking at the ranger's Infiltrator and Skirmisher archetypes for ideas.
@Thomas: We can do that.
Coven Champion and Detonator Mage are up on the wiki.
How's this for Hunter's Bond?
Hunter’s Bond (Ex): This is exactly like the ranger ability of the same name, except that the dark stalker must select an animal companion, one specifically adept at stealth, such as a small or big cat, an eagle, or similar animal. The following is a list of typical animal companions that meet this stealth requirement: ant (giant), ape, bat (dire), bird, cat (big), cat, (small), chameleon (giant), dog, hyena, elk, gecko (giant), mantis (giant), monitor lizard, ram, rat (dire), roc, scorpion (giant), snake (constrictor), snake (viper), spider (giant), stag, trumpeter swan , vulture (giant), wasp (giant), weasel (giant), wolf. Additional animals may be added at the GM’s discretion.
While it isn't going to help the uniqueness, I think that the dark stalker should be able to take favored enemies using its rogue talents.
Also why not just let him act normally if he acts in a surprise round and possibly not be flat footed if he gets ambushed?
As for uniqueness perhaps if we moved to spell-like abilities that could be cast quicker instead of spells? Say for each spell level he eventually learns up to 3 spells that he can cast as spell like abilities with a immediate action.
The greatest case against this MCT as I see it is that it fills a hole that is already filled - the Divine Agent is already a Cleric/Rogue AT. The question is if this is different enough to be a separate entry, or if either could be moved to a rouge/cleric MAC. I personally think both this and the divine agent has too much clerical spells to really work as a rogue/cleric MAC.
This is already on my the Rogue Cleric at Hastur Wiki.
# Below denotes my comments. A paragraph beginning with # is not part of the rules text.
Rogue Cleric
The rogue cleric is an outsider, either working for a god of rogues or being a rogue in a more regular church. His focus is less on divine magic and more on mundane intrusion skills.
Class Abilities
The rogue cleric has all the standard cleric's class abilities except as noted below.
Class Skills
Acrobatics (Dex), Appraise (Int), Bluff (Int), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Dex), Escape Artist (Dex), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Arcana) (Int), Knowledge (Local) (Int), Knowledge (Religion) (Int), Perception (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight Of Hand (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), Stealth (Dex), and Swim (Str).
6 skill points per level.
#I opted to give a definite list instead of "add 3 rogue skills". I also add more skill points that the normal pattern allows. In fact, the skills are the point of this MCAT, the rest are just gravy, genre-enforcement or balancing options.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency
Proficient with the club, dagger, hand crossbow, light crossbow, sap, shortbow, quarterstaff, the favored weapon of his patron, and with light armor but not with shields.
Diminished Spellcasting
A rogue cleric may cast one fewer spell of each level than normal. If this reduces the number to 0, he may cast spells of that level only if his Wisdom allows bonus spells of that level.
Divine Disable (Su)
A rogue cleric can use Disable Device to disarm magic traps. This replaces aura.
Saving Throws
Thee rogue cleric has Reflex saving throws in the good category and Fortitude saving throws in the poor category.
Sneak Channel
When a rogue cleric hits a melee opponent whom he flanks or who is denied it's Dexterity bonus to armor class against her, she can use the Channel Smite feat in conjunction with the attack. She need not know the feat to do this. This use of channel energy does not count against his daily limit.
# The damage here is as high as sneak attack, but it only works against a limited set of targets and allows a saving throw for half damage. This also gives evil clerics a real edge - the channeling and spell substitution abilities of evil clerics are otherwise subpar IMO.
Evasion (Ex)
At 4rd level and higher, a rogue cleric can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If she makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage.
# This is here to enforce the armor restrictions. It gives the rogue cleric something to lose by learning to use heavy armor, and thus enforces the genre.
Rogue Talent (Ex)
At level 8, and every 4 levels thereafter, the rogue cleric learns a rogue talent. She uses these talents as a rogue five levels lower than her rogue cleric level. He can learn advanced talents from level 15 onwards. Rogue talents that relate to rogue class abilities the rogue cleric lacks cannot be selected. Rouge talents can be found here.
# "here" in this text is a hyperlink in the original.
Table: Rogue Cleric
Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special Spells per Day
0+1 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
1st +0 +0 +2 +2 Channel energy 1d6, divine disable, domains, orisons, sneak channel, spontaneous casting 2 0+1
2nd +1 +0 +3 +3 3 1+1
3rd +2 +1 +3 +3 Channel energy 2d6 3 1+1 0+1
4th +3 +1 +4 +4 Evasion 4 2+1 1+1
5th +3 +1 +4 +4 Channel energy 3d6 4 2+1 1+1 0+1
6th +4 +2 +5 +5 4 2+1 2+1 1+1
7th +5 +2 +5 +5 Channel energy 4d6 5 3+1 2+1 1+1 0+1
8th +6/+1 +2 +6 +6 Rogue talent 5 3+1 2+1 2+1 1+1
9th +6/+1 +3 +6 +6 Channel energy 5d6 5 3+1 3+1 2+1 1+1 0+1
10th +7/+2 +3 +7 +7 5 3+1 3+1 2+1 2+1 1+1
11th +8/+3 +3 +7 +7 Channel energy 6d6 5 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1 1+1 0+1
12th +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 Rogue talent 5 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1 2+1 1+1
13th +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 Channel energy 7d6 5 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1 1+1 0+1
14th +10/+5 +4 +9 +9 5 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1 2+1 1+1
15th +11/+6/+1 +5 +9 +9 Channel energy 8d6 5 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1 1+1 0+1
16th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 Advanced rogue talent 5 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1 2+1 1+1
17th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 Channel energy 9d6 5 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1 1+1 0+1
18th +13/+8/+3 +6 +11 +11 5 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1 2+1 1+1
19th +14/+9/+4 +6 +11 +11 Channel energy 10d6 5 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1 2+1
20th +15/+10/+5 +6 +12 +12 Advanced rogue talent 5 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1 3+1 3+1
#DARK STALKER
I feel this is overpowered. Looking at first level and comparing to a rogue, you have +1 BAB, +2 Fort save, 2 extra hit points, better armor and weapons, all at the cost of 2 skill points. This trend continues; basically you have as much or more abilities than the rogue in addition to having the core values of the ranger. Ok, the rogue is underpowered, but still this needs to lose something. Some abilities can come in later (sneak attack, rogue talents), but I don't think this will be enough. I think the dark stalker must give up something major - animal companion, spells, or combat style.
On spells, make not that dev posts on Stealth say Blur is not sufficient concealment to use Stealth. Not sure I agree on this ruling, nor am I sure of how offical it is, but it is something that comes up in Stealth discussions now and then.
Rogue Talents: At 3rd level and every three levels thereafter, a dark stalker gains a rogue talent for which she qualifies. A dark stalker treats his level as his rogue level for the purpose of qualifying for talents with level-dependent requirements and calculating the effects of any talent or rogue ability he's chosen. This ability and advanced talents replace favored terrain.
1/3 levels seems generous as an exchange for the so-so favored terrain ability, especially since the dark stalker also has spells. I feel rogue talents is a make-up ability for the lack of spells.
Hunter’s Bond (Ex): This is exactly like the ranger ability of the same name, except that the dark stalker must select an animal companion, one specifically adept at stealth, such as a small or big cat, an eagle, or similar animal.
Without having read the comments on this in detail, I feel this ability is vague, and also might need some buffing. Maybe the animal companion inherits the dark stalker's ranks in Stealth, much like a familiar does?
Ambush (Ex): At 4th level, a dark stalker becomes fully practiced in the art of ambushing. When he acts in the surprise round, he can take a move action, standard action, and swift action during the surprise round, not just a move or standard action. This ability replaces woodland stride.
Note that this is still different (and less useful) than a normal round, where you can also take a full-round action. I think the dark stalker should simply treat a surprise round as a normal round, and thus be able to take a full-round action. However, this is powerful, and as it is I feel this class is already on the powerful side.
Quarry (Ex): This is exactly like the ranger ability of the same name, except that it corresponds to a specific individual creature, not a creature type.
Improved Quarry (Ex): This is exactly like the ranger ability of the same name, except that it corresponds to a specific individual creature, not a creature type.
I feel this might be based on a misreading of the quarry ability. Ranger quarry applies to one specific creature, which must be of a type covered by favored enemy. It does not apply to a type of creature. Thus, this is an improved quarry in that it presumably can affect other than favored enemies, as the dark stalker has no favored enemies.
Camouflage (Ex): This is exactly like the ranger ability of the same name, except that the dark stalker can use the Stealth skill to hide as long as he is within 10 feet of an area of dim light. A dark stalker cannot however, hide in his own shadow.
Hide in Plain Sight (Ex): This is exactly like the ranger ability of the same name, except that the dark stalker can use the Stealth skill even while being observed as long as he is within 10 feet of an area of dim light. A dark stalker cannot however, hide in his own shadow.
How does this interact with darkvision? I think this should work just as the ranger ability, except substitute dim light (or less) for favored terrain.
Edit: Maybe the dark stalker should get favored terrain bonuses when he is in an area of dim light or less? Not sure how magical the class' relation to darkness should be, presently it is quite magical (they seem to be able to hide near darkness even against creatures with darkvision. Making darkness favored terrain makes the relationship even more mystical. Of course, it is also a power-up, which will require scaling back some other ability.
While it isn't going to help the uniqueness, I think that the dark stalker should be able to take favored enemies using its rogue talents.
I agree with the favored enemy. Like this.
In addition, a dark stalker may select one favored enemy from the ranger’s list of favored enemies in place of a rogue talent, gaining the benefits of the ranger’s favored enemy class feature against that enemy. He may select an additional favored enemy at 9th and 15th level in place of a rogue talent. At each such interval, the bonus against any one favored enemy (including the one just selected, if so desired) increases by +2. This ability and advanced talents replace favored terrain.
Also why not just let him act normally if he acts in a surprise round and possibly not be flat footed if he gets ambushed?
Ambush is actually an ability already from an archetype, word for word. Perhaps we could have "Improved Ambush" at 13th. It would just be an added class feature, no swap.
As for uniqueness perhaps if we moved to spell-like abilities that could be cast quicker instead of spells? Say for each spell level he eventually learns up to 3 spells that he can cast as spell like abilities with a immediate action.
If we want to go the "spell-less ranger" idea, we could just use the ranger's Skirmisher archetyppe's Hunter's Tricks, as those already replace a ranger's spells. We could als look at adding in some new ones too, some that are more "stealthy" or "stalker-hunter". If we could, I think the Infiltrator's Adaptation ability as one of the Tricks we could adapt into the MCA.
I am not thinking spell-less ranger so much as only knowing a few spells each level but casting them faster, being able to do front line combat is hard when you spend the first two rounds of combat buffing yourself.
#Detonator Mage - again
This is still called "wondrous detonator" in some class abilities - a simple find/replace should find those.
Alchemy (Su): At 1st level, a detonator mage gains the alchemist’s ability to create mundane alchemical substances such as alchemist’s fire and smokesticks. When using Craft (alchemy) to create an alchemical item, a detonator mage gains a competence bonus equal to her class level on the Craft (alchemy) check. In addition, a detonator mage can use Craft (alchemy) to identify potions as if using detect magic. She must hold the potion for 1 round to make such a check. This ability replaces cantrips.
The alchemist is pretty unique in its ability to add a full class level to a skill, and I am not sure the detonator mage should share this.
#Dark Stalker
While it isn't going to help the uniqueness, I think that the dark stalker should be able to take favored enemies using its rogue talents.I agree with the favored enemy. Like this.
As written this is pretty much a one-way choice - you either take favored enemies or rogue tricks, as favored enemies get more and more powerful the more you get. If we want favored enemy to be just an option among many, I say we make the favored enemy bonus be a fixed +4 - no matter how many you have the bonus stays the same. As you only get this ability at lvl 3, it outclasses an ordinary ranger's favored only at levels 3 and 4. And I could easily see the dark stalker only get a rogue talent at level 5 and every 5 levels.
If we make my suggested change and give rogue talents at levels 5, 10, 15, and 20, a dark stalker who goes all-out for favored enemies is one favored enemy (+2) short of what a normal ranger who spreads the bonus evenly gets.
Or we just leave it at the +2 bonus and let the person stack them if they wish to.
The greatest case against this MCT as I see it is that it fills a hole that is already filled - the Divine Agent is already a Cleric/Rogue AT. The question is if this is different enough to be a separate entry, or if either could be moved to a rouge/cleric MAC. I personally think both this and the divine agent has too much clerical spells to really work as a rogue/cleric MAC...
As it stands, it more a Cleric/Rogue.
*Spellcasting: Combining a a full caster and no caster tends to result in either a 1/2 caster or hybrid caster, but as you can see with the Divine Agent, you can also keep the primary's casting.
So in this case, for Rog/Clr, there is way too much magic. So this should either be a 1/2 caster (that's my suggestion) or a hybrid caster, but either way, you have to swap something out for the casting, as Rogue is the primary and Cleric the secondary class.
*Skills: 6 + Int isn't more than he can get. When combining two classes, such as these (Clr 2 + Int; Rog 8 + Int) you start with base class, in this case, Rogue (8 + Int) You then move 1 step up or down. In this case, The rogue drops to 6 + Int, which is normal for this type of MCA.
Also, we don't just "add" in skills, UNLESS the secondary class has only 3 or less skill different from the primary, then you just say that X, Y, and Z are added to the rogue's skill list. We otherwise leave it open for the players to choose. Cleric has more than 3 different skills, but as a Clr secondary ist should have Knowledge (religion), so it should read ...
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The rogue/cleric witch may select three cleric skills to add to her class skills in addition to the normal rogue class skills, one of which must be Knowledg (religion). The rogue/cleric gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 6 + Int modifier.
*Divine Disable: Just give her Trapfinding. I assume this is in the same vein that you think only an alchemist should have the Alchemy ability (specifically the bonus to Craft checks)? You have to remember, the Dark Stalker IS an alchemist, secondary yes, but he's still an alchemist, just as your Rogue/Cleric is still a rogue. You'd get either of these by multiclassing anyways, that's the whole point of our 3 year tested system. There is no reason to remove aspects of an ability unless its absolutely necessary to the flavor and funciton, which in both cases here, isn't.
.....
Looking it over, there's WAY too much stuff here. You hav full Channel Energy which swaps out sneal attack, you have full diminished spellcasting (nothing swapped), less rogue talents, domains (nothing swapped), Sneak Channel (with no sneak attack), ..etc.
I think first, you need to decide what you really want from the Cleric, then start swapping out equal rogue class features for what you want. So, let's start there. What do you really want from the cLeric, then we can see how to swap them into the Rogue chassis with fair and balanced swaps.
So this isn't a "back to the drawing board" MCA, just an unbalanced set of swaps between the two classes which can easily be fixed.
@Favored Enemy as part of Dark Stalker's Rogue Talents choice
Did you guys read my Rogue Talent spoiler?
Rogue Talent: At 3rd level and every three levels thereafter, a dark stalker gains a rogue talent for which she qualifies. A dark stalker treats his level as his rogue level for the purpose of qualifying for talents with level-dependent requirements and calculating the effects of any talent or rogue ability he's chosen.
In addition, a dark stalker may select one favored enemy from the ranger’s list of favored enemies in place of a rogue talent, gaining the benefits of the ranger’s favored enemy class feature against that enemy. He may select an additional favored enemy at 9th and 15th level in place of rogue talent. At each such interval, the bonus against any one favored enemy (including the one just selected, if so desired) increases by +2. This ability and advanced talents replace favored terrain.
Added in the BIG bolded "an additional" to clarify.
He can select ONE Favored Enemy at third (granting the +2 bonus), then he can select it again either at 9th and 15th, giving a max of 3 favored enemies, increasing his first choice to a max of +6, and the others only +2. Like it'll end up with a +4, +4, +2 spread. So this works just like the Favored Enemy ability, but only 3 favored enemies can be chosen, but each choice of another enemy expends a rogue talent choice. He's not getting 3 favored enemies and the linked bonus increases with one rague talent. He has to use a rogue talent choice to gain each interval increase of the ability, up to 3 favored enemies.