Non-magical attacks and magic weapons

[Lawrence DuBois]

I'm sure this question has been asked and answered before, but I've been having difficulty finding anything decisive in my searches.

I was just reading one of the sylph's alternate racial traits, specifically Breeze-Kissed, which has the phrase "A Sylph with this racial trait surrounds herself with swirling winds, gaining a +2 racial bonus to AC against non-magical ranged attacks."
This made me wonder something that I never really thought of before: when the phrase 'non-magical attack' is used, does it mean entirely mundane, or just not from a spell, spell-like ability, or the like? And similarly, how does this interact with things like natural weapons that are treated as magic for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction? Since its specifically stated that the latter is for damage reduction only, I imagine not, but its always nice to double check.

[Lawrence DuBois]

I guess this is technically necro-posting, but I was digging through my old threads and realized this one never got an answer. So since the thread never got any real attention, I figure it would be better to just bump it rather than create a new thread saying the exact same thing.

[GreenMandar]

Good question. I wonder if there are other abilities/rules out there with the same wording to use as a guide.

[kinevon]

I suspect no one answered because it is referring to non-magical ranged attacks, so most natural weapon attacks won't have any interaction with it.

There are a few critters with some sort of "natural" ranged attack, but those should state whether they are considered magical or not. Manticore spines, a couple of others.

Against regular ranged attacks, the only point of contention is that ammunition gains the magical enhancement of the launcher.

[Lawrence DuBois]

Er... Was there anything about natural attacks? A mundane longbow and ray spell are obvious how they react to this, but what about a +1 longbow that straddles the line? And as for natural attacks, what about manticores?

EDIT: Oh yeah, the for purposes of bypassing DR part is where I mentioned natural attacks...

[Mauril]

"Treated as magical for the purposes of damage reduction" and "magical" are not the same thing. The former is for a very specific case; the latter is not. As such, if a creature such as the tarrasque (which has a natural ranged attach that is treated as epic for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction) were to attack a creature with a power that says "gains +2 AC vs non-epic attacks", the creature would gain the +2 to its AC vs that attack.

The attack is mundane. In order to be "magical" it must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus to the attack and damage. So, for the Sylph ability, it gains the AC vs the normal longbow and the tarrasque, but not against the +1 longbow or ray of frost. A +1 longbow does not straddle the line; its ammunition gains the properties of the weapon that fired it, and are thus magical too.

EDIT: Correction, it seems that the ammunition is only magic for the purposes of damage reduction, just like natural attacks. So it does potentially straddle the line.

[Lawrence DuBois]

But it's also just vague enough that magical ammunition (even if the arrow itself is enchanted) could count as getting that +2 AC. Does it mean "magical" as enchanted, or "magical" as in magic/spells?

[Are]

Lawrence DuBois wrote:

Does it mean "magical" as enchanted, or "magical" as in magic/spells?

Both (IMO).

[Lawrence DuBois]

I meant to have a "just" in there. It definitely means spells, at least. Whether or not it refers to enchanted weapons is the grey area.

[technofenris]

I realize this is an old thread, but I was just searching this myself as it just came up in game. As GM I would come down on the side that it DOES apply to enchanted weapons as it is a physical "barrier". A spell would simply ignore the winds as it is a non-physical attack (at least until you get into spells like diamond shards or ice knife, but that's a whole other can of worms). Just my two cents.