I need an answer to #2 as well!
Scrap Bomb is not marked with an asterisk, so it combines with the standard Bomb, which is fire. So it should do both piercing and fire damage, right?
Ditto things like: Madness Bomb; Anarchic/Axiomatic Bombs; etc. Unless these are oversights by Paizo, which seems likely given the number of other Discoveries which don't stack together.
Silly that I can't use Explosive Bomb with Frost, or Acid, or any other of a number of bomb Discoveries since it is supposed to reflect that I've learned how to give my bombs a bigger area of effect!
Question 1: Does the splash damage count as a direct hit for the purposes of effects like Tangle or Force Damage?
Question 2: If making a Bomb into a Scrap Bomb does it deal Fire Damage And Bleed Damage, or does the Fire Damage become bleed damage?
Answer 1: No, the thing that happens to people who don't take a direct hit does not count as a direct hit.
Answer 2: Like the other discoveries that affect damage type, Scrap Bomb replaces the damage type. So it does piercing damage and possibly bleed, no fire damage.
I disagree that Scrap Bomb replaces damage type. Per the list of Discoveries, only those that are marked with an asterisk cannot stack. Scrap Bomb is not asterisked, and so it can stack - which means it adds piercing, not replaces fire.
|
Pupsocket is correct here. While it would make perfect sense for it to add piercing rather than replace it. The ability does not say adds it simply says deals which is very similar to the same terminology the other damage replacing bombs use. This gets confusing if you wanted to use the frost bomb and scrap bomb together where you would choose which damage type you'd like, then apply both rider effects.
I believe scrap bomb (like most of the goblin discoveries) was meant to be asterisk'd but it got left out. (Rocket bomb anyone?)
For 2 if the Firebomber is 4th level or higher the answer is yes though the damage is split evenly between piercing and fire damage due to the Fiery Cocktail ability.
At 4th level, whenever a fire bomber uses a discovery that deals damage other than fire damage, he can split the damage dice evenly between the bomb's primary damage type and 1d6 points of fire damage; when there is an odd number of damage dice, the odd die of damage comes from the primary damage type. For example, an 8th-level fire bomber could throw a concussive bomb that deals 2d6 points of fire damage and 3d4 points of sonic damage. Additional effects from the bomb still apply, but the save DC for admixture bombs is reduced by 2. This replaces the alchemist's 4th-level discovery.
|
|
For 2 if the Firebomber is 4th level or higher the answer is yes though the damage is split evenly between piercing and fire damage due to the Fiery Cocktail ability.
At 4th level, whenever a fire bomber uses a discovery that deals damage other than fire damage, he can split the damage dice evenly between the bomb's primary damage type and 1d6 points of fire damage; when there is an odd number of damage dice, the odd die of damage comes from the primary damage type. For example, an 8th-level fire bomber could throw a concussive bomb that deals 2d6 points of fire damage and 3d4 points of sonic damage. Additional effects from the bomb still apply, but the save DC for admixture bombs is reduced by 2. This replaces the alchemist's 4th-level discovery.
He doesn't actually HAVE to use that ability though. By default using Scrap Bomb changes the damage type to piercing. Though if he chose to use Fiery cocktail, you are right it would be half and half.
This is why I hate PF. Either the Discoveries stack , or they don't. 80% of the things you'd want to use Explosive Bomb on you can't (Frost; Acid; Shock; hell even Smoke). Then when you have one of the few that are not marked with an asterisk, people say you still can't stack them? Crazy!
Discoveries can't be combined. But, the base Bomb deals fire. Base Bomb + Scrap means it should deal both, without needing to use Fiery Cocktail. But because of either bad editing (Scrap Bomb should have an asterisk) or poor wording, people treat it like Acid Bomb or Frost Bomb, which don't stack. Stacking (unless I am completely wrong) means they add together - they stack effects - so Fire + Piercing.
|
|
Scrap bomb (and it's other goblin brothers) were quite clearly not meant to stack. The fact that none of the goblin discoveries got asterisk'd but are written and function just like the other asterisk'd bomb discoveries makes that pretty plain that the author's simply forgot to add asterisks to the goblin discoveries. None of the stackable bomb discoveries were meant to be a straight upgrade to bombing but simply alter how they are used. Every single stacking bomb with the exception of the goblin bombs (and sticky bomb, but that one is the highest level stacking bomb, and for good reason) adds something but also takes something away which is why they stack.
Sure, as written, scrap bomb stacks because of an author oversight in an obscure book. If you are GM and you wish to roll with that knowing it is an error you are welcome to. The rest of us aren't willing to give it the benefit of the doubt though and will rule it harshly.
Trust me, dunno if you can tell from my name here but I love alchemist's and blowing crap up and would love for that to be the case but I'd just feel dirty abusing that, knowing full well it was an author oversight.
Scrap bomb (and it's other goblin brothers) were quite clearly not meant to stack. The fact that none of the goblin discoveries got asterisk'd but are written and function just like the other asterisk'd bomb discoveries makes that pretty plain that the author's simply forgot to add asterisks to the goblin discoveries. None of the stackable bomb discoveries were meant to be a straight upgrade to bombing but simply alter how they are used. Every single stacking bomb with the exception of the goblin bombs (and sticky bomb, but that one is the highest level stacking bomb, and for good reason) adds something but also takes something away which is why they stack.
Sure, as written, scrap bomb stacks because of an author oversight in an obscure book. If you are GM and you wish to roll with that knowing it is an error you are welcome to. The rest of us aren't willing to give it the benefit of the doubt though and will rule it harshly.
Trust me, dunno if you can tell from my name here but I love alchemist's and blowing crap up and would love for that to be the case but I'd just feel dirty abusing that, knowing full well it was an author oversight.
It's not just being an alchemist, but being a Goblin alchemist that loves to blow things up!
But, thanks for agreeing that Scrap Bomb - as written - stacks (emphasis mine). Whether it should or not is a different issue, and you're probably quite right that it was an oversight.
It's more a call to Paizo to get on the ball and correct these oversights than anything. I'd love to know the reasoning behind some of the choices, however - like Explosive Bomb not working on Frost or Shock or Acid, for instance. Yeah, they made it inflict burning on a direct hit, but they could have made it simply a discovery that doubles the splash area and apply to all bombs. Burn could have been a separate Discovery/upgrade.
Oh well - "what could have been's...".