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So, I really like the idea of this, the layout is good, I like that there are wand slots (I wish there were also scroll slots!).
But, I am about to go in and create these for 7 PCs across approximately 115 chronicles. There is no way in the world that I am going to be able to do this in a manner that is legible by hand. My handwriting, on the BEST day, looks like a drunken, epileptic chicken ran across a sandy parking lot in a windstorm while being chased by Garble Facechomper on a tricycle.
For the love all that is holy in the world, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make this a form-fillable pdf that is separate from the guide itself.
Barring that, is it acceptable for me to create my own form-fillable document using the same layout? If I do so, and promise to send a copy to Mike or John or Mark for vetting, can we then distribute such a form in here somewhere?
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So in my mind, the biggest change in the new 5.0 version of the Guide to Organized Play is the one that's gotten the least amount of press, at least outside of thread discussing that newly release Guide. I'm talking about the new Inventory Tracking Sheet. So I figured we could use a thread to talk about it.
My first question: Do we really need to go back and retroactively fill these out for every purchase by all of our old characters?
I really hope not. If we do, then my level 14 barbarian really is retiring permanently, and won't even come out of retirement for future GenCon specials or anything like that. I refuse to hand copy that much junk from all his old chronicles, especially since I have no idea exactly when he used up each of the dozens of curing wands he burned through.
Needing to fill out that much paperwork might also cause the permanent retirement of my level 8 cleric that I was already bored with and only play when we really need another player to make a table at tier 7-8.
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My characters are not as extensive as yours (only 3rd and 5th level), but this is something I’ve wondered as well, and that is do we need to retroactively fill in the information from previous chronicle sheets.
Fortunately I’ve taken pretty good notes on my characters and their sessions, so I ‘could’ fill in the previous information, but I would prefer not having to do so.
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That's just my two highest level PCs. I have 13 total characters, plus a GM credit from running First Steps 2 last night which will be applied to a 14th PC that doesn't exist yet.
I am good about tracking my purchases on my chronicle sheets, so I could retroactively do just about everything. But I have no idea exactly when I used my consumables, and it would just be a pain in the neck to transfer 150+ chronicles worth of stuff to the new form.
So I'm hoping these don't have to be filled out retroactively, but I really do like the new tracking sheet otherwise.
My one tweak that I'd recommend is that wands aren't the only multi-use consumables, so the bottom section could be reworded. I'm thinking of things like bunches of arrows or crossbow bolts that are bought 10-20 at a time. Or scrolls with multiple copies of the same spell on a single sheet.
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I definitely think so. I love the idea of the new sheet, and I can see requiring any level 1 PC to copy their purchases over from their first few chronicles.
But for those of us with a ton of chronicles to deal with, the time transcribing everything by hand would turn a hobby into a chore, and that's likely to discourage people from actually doing it. Some people already complain that PFS has too much paperwork. Giving them extra homework could reduce participation.
Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Melbourne
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Would it be better if it started with Season 5 forward?
That all depends on the intent of the sheet. If it is primarily to make audits easier and faster, not having it retro-active might make things even worse then they are since things would not be consistent.
Never the less, I feel Fromper's pain. I have 8 characters ranging from levels 2-12. I do not relish all the work it is going to take to transfer all that info, especially since I am someone who likes to buy a lot of useful but cheap non-magical stuff. I dread even more trying to get newbs to follow this new rule. Most of us play PFS to role-play being a hero, not to role-play being an accountant.
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One other question I just thought of: Can I assume Paizo staff will be bringing 50,000 printed copies of the Inventory Tracking Sheets with you to distribute at GenCon? Or as a GenCon GM, should I print and bring enough for every chronicle sheet I give out?
Given how new this is, I'm just assuming that 80% or more of players won't have read the new Guide and realized that this change is coming, until they show up there and have to start using it.
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But for those of us with a ton of chronicles to deal with, the time transcribing everything by hand would turn a hobby into a chore, and that's likely to discourage people from actually doing it. Some people already complain that PFS has too much paperwork. Giving them extra homework could reduce participation.
Just as a note, I actually like the idea of going back and checking and copying all my purchases! I did it for Eyes of the Ten as well, and I loved every second of it. I just loooove organization. Actually all my level 11+ characters (3 at this time) I have already done this exact exercise of doing a full inventory although in Excel. So it will be a matter of copying over.
Then again, I also realize I am in the minority, and possibly a bit nuts :P
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Would it be better if it started with Season 5 forward?
That might be best. It becomes a requirement for chronicles starting with Season 5. It is optional if you want to apply it toward previous chronicles.
Question: BAsed on the example chronicle in the new guide, are there still going to be "conditions gained/items sold" and "conditions cleared /items purchased" boxes? If no, I expect that is what the Notes section will be used for. The reason I ask is that I saw references to those sections in other parts of the guide.
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Would it be better if it started with Season 5 forward?
Absolutely Mike.
If I could write in "see previous chronicles" it would be far easier. Considering some of my characters have upwards of 40 alchemical items alone (not including other expendables), transcribing all of that info is looking to be a pain in my behind for my 9 characters.
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Would it be better if it started with Season 5 forward?That all depends on the intent of the sheet. If it is primarily to make audits easier and faster, not having it retro-active might make things even worse then they are since things would not be consistent.
Never the less, I feel Fromper's pain. I have 8 characters ranging from levels 2-12. I do not relish all the work it is going to take to transfer all that info, especially since I am someone who likes to buy a lot of useful but cheap non-magical stuff. I dread even more trying to get newbs to follow this new rule. Most of us play PFS to role-play being a hero, not to role-play being an accountant.
Just so we're all on the same page, I'm thinking in terms of everyone using the new Inventory Tracking Sheets going forward every time they play, even if they're playing older adventures. I hope nobody thinks I'm suggesting that purchases from playing older scenarios will only be on the chronicle sheet. So even if we don't have to copy their old chronicles to the new forms, there will be a clean cutoff on August 14, 2013. Hopefully, that's what everyone else was thinking of also, since it seems like the most straightforward way to handle this, to me anyway.
So this should still make audits easier than they are today. It's just that for older characters, you'll have to go through their chronicles for anything they played before this year's GenCon (no different from now), but anything they've played since then will be on the new forms, which will be easier to audit.
After a year or two has passed, I'm guessing the vast majority of PCs still in use will be new enough to have everything on the new sheets.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Melbourne
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Just so we're all on the same page, I'm thinking in terms of everyone using the new Inventory Tracking Sheets going forward every time they play, even if they're playing older adventures. I hope nobody thinks I'm suggesting that purchases from playing older scenarios will only be on the chronicle sheet. So even if we don't have to copy their old chronicles to the new forms, there will be a clean cutoff on August 14, 2013. Hopefully, that's what everyone else was thinking of also, since it seems like the most straightforward way to handle this, to me anyway.So this should still make audits easier than they are today. It's just that for older characters, you'll have to go through their chronicles for anything they played before this year's GenCon (no different from now), but anything they've played since then will be on the new forms, which will be easier to audit.
After a year or two has passed, I'm guessing the vast majority of PCs still in use will be new enough to have everything on the new sheets.
I am saying it might make things more difficult for auditing because the DM now has to look at two different sources when auditing instead of just one. If the primary reason for this sheet is to make auditing easier then I assume they are going to try to push auditing more in year 5 than previously. If that is the case and I am going to be encouraged to spend valuable potential playtime auditing up to 7 characters then I would want everything to be in a single, consistent format. As a player, though, I don't look forward to doing that.
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Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator
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Ok, I have updated the FAQ.
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I REALLY don't want to have to do it with my Seeker character. 38 chronicles, and I probably will only play him one more time outside of his normal group.
I don't mind doing it with my characters going forward, however. That makes sense, and there are some characters (mostly GM credit characters, as well as my Thornkeep fighter) where I will fill it out anyway even if I don't have to.
Edit: Ninja'd by Mike Brock. Much appreciated change, sir!
I'm just happy to see the thing. Been waiting on something official like that for a while. Finally I can PFS again! :D
I haven't seen the sheet but it might make me willing to try out PFS if my area gets someone able to help with Characters...
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Ok, I have updated the FAQ.
Good change. Thank you.
PS: You should change the date to "Aug 14. 2013" instead of just "Aug 14." (Assuming you intend to leave that wording in there for future reference, which I think would be a good idea.)
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Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator
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Ok, I have updated the FAQ.Good change. Thank you.
PS: You should change the date to "Aug 14. 2013" instead of just "Aug 14." (Assuming you intend to leave that wording in there for future reference, which I think would be a good idea.)
Will do. Thanks for the input.
I'd like everyone required to go through and come up with a total gold earned and spent on their first line, and then start tracking purchases starting with Season 5. Will help a ton with audits.
This would be good for those wanting to take older characters forward.
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Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator
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One other question I just thought of: Can I assume Paizo staff will be bringing 50,000 printed copies of the Inventory Tracking Sheets with you to distribute at GenCon? Or as a GenCon GM, should I print and bring enough for every chronicle sheet I give out?
Given how new this is, I'm just assuming that 80% or more of players won't have read the new Guide and realized that this change is coming, until they show up there and have to start using it.
Not 50,000 but I will have 2,000 printed out and available at HQ.
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Not 50,000 but I will have 2,000 printed out and available at HQ.One other question I just thought of: Can I assume Paizo staff will be bringing 50,000 printed copies of the Inventory Tracking Sheets with you to distribute at GenCon? Or as a GenCon GM, should I print and bring enough for every chronicle sheet I give out?
Given how new this is, I'm just assuming that 80% or more of players won't have read the new Guide and realized that this change is coming, until they show up there and have to start using it.
I'm just expecting a whole lot of PFS players to show up without their own inv sheets, because they just don't know about them yet. So that could prevent them from making purchases between adventures if they play more than one game at GenCon. I think I'll print off enough to give one out with every chronicle when I GM, plus a few for my friends.
How detailed are people expected to be for the inventory tracking sheet?
In the past, I have often put in lines like: Misc. adventuring gear: 113 gp. This to cover bags of powder, replacement silk rope, pitons, bags of caltrops, torches, etc..
Would that still be acceptable, or would I need to record everything, including the 2 cp purchases?
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Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator
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How detailed are people expected to be for the inventory tracking sheet?
In the past, I have often put in lines like: Misc. adventuring gear: 113 gp. This to cover bags of powder, replacement silk rope, pitons, bags of caltrops, torches, etc..
Would that still be acceptable, or would I need to record everything, including the 2 cp purchases?
As long as when the GM goes to audit your character, you can explain what Misc. adventuring gear is.
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Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator
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Check out the FAQ. You don't have to start using them until Aug. 15.
Is it mandatory to utilize the new Inventory Tracking Sheet introduced in Guide 5.0?
Yes, Starting on Aug. 15, 2013, the use of the Inventory Tracking Sheet is mandatory for all Pathfinder Society Organized Play characters. It will allow a much faster optional character audit by GMs before a game session. It is optional if any purchases made before Aug. 15, 2013, are entered onto an Inventory Tracking Form. However, all future purchases from games played or GMed should be entered onto an Inventory Tracking Sheet.
If you have been using a different inventory tracking sheet before the release of Guide 5.0, you may have the GM at your next game sign off on it. Once that inventory sheet is filled, you should switch to the Inventory Tracking Sheet located in the back of the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play.
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How detailed are people expected to be for the inventory tracking sheet?
In the past, I have often put in lines like: Misc. adventuring gear: 113 gp. This to cover bags of powder, replacement silk rope, pitons, bags of caltrops, torches, etc..
Would that still be acceptable, or would I need to record everything, including the 2 cp purchases?
I've seen people on these forums complain that they think players are cheating if they just happen to have the perfect item for a particular situation, so they'll ask to see the chronicle sheet where the person bought it. I've abbreviated stuff in the past, too, usually along the lines of "6 scrolls of level 1 spells - 150 gp", then list out the individual scrolls on my character sheet. But I'm thinking this is a good time to start being more detailed, since the Inventory Tracking Sheet actually has the room for a full list.
On a completely different note, "The Inventory Tracking Sheet" is too long a name, and no obvious short form jumps out at me. What are we going to call these things for short? The obvious acronym is amusing, but inappropriate. Any other suggestions?
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How detailed are people expected to be for the inventory tracking sheet?
In the past, I have often put in lines like: Misc. adventuring gear: 113 gp. This to cover bags of powder, replacement silk rope, pitons, bags of caltrops, torches, etc..
Would that still be acceptable, or would I need to record everything, including the 2 cp purchases?
I've seen people on these forums complain that they think players are cheating if they just happen to have the perfect item for a particular situation, so they'll ask to see the chronicle sheet where the person bought it. I've abbreviated stuff in the past, too, usually along the lines of "6 scrolls of level 1 spells - 150 gp", then list out the individual scrolls on my character sheet. But I'm thinking this is a good time to start being more detailed, since the Inventory Tracking Sheet actually has the room for a full list.
On a completely different note, "The Inventory Tracking Sheet" is too long a name, and no obvious short form jumps out at me. What are we going to call these things for short? The obvious acronym is amusing, but inappropriate. Any other suggestions?
What about LOOT? List Of One's Things.
Or SWAG - Sheet With All Gear.
What about LOOT? List Of One's Things.
Or SWAG - Sheet With All Gear.
First one is Clever. The Second, Well to quote the Doctor...
"No, Just... No"
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I have created a one-page form fillable pdf. It can be opened in a full version of Acrobat or in Acrobat Reader.
If you have a full version of Acrobat, you can save the form and fill it in later, but if you have only Reader, you cannot save the data, though you can print it to pdf.
Who at paizo would I need to ask if it is okay to give this away for free?
Mike, would I need to run it by the Decemvirate (Triumvirate?) to make sure it is okay to show up at a table with this?
Am I completely whacked and should just not worry about it?
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I have created a one-page form fillable pdf. It can be opened in a full version of Acrobat or in Acrobat Reader.
If you have a full version of Acrobat, you can save the form and fill it in later, but if you have only Reader, you cannot save the data, though you can print it to pdf.
Who at paizo would I need to ask if it is okay to give this away for free?
Mike, would I need to run it by the Decemvirate (Triumvirate?) to make sure it is okay to show up at a table with this?
Am I completely whacked and should just not worry about it?
As long as the sheet is system neutral (Don't put the pathfinder or PFS logo on it), you can link it here as a generic "form-fillable tracking sheet."
I'm sure that the online community and others would appreciate the alternative.
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I have sent a copy of the output to Mike for possible review. It does have the new PFS logo on it (from the community-use package). Easy to remove, though.
It includes the ability to mark off wand charges (which could also apply to ammo bundles!).
The one major drawback is that, in order to really edit it, you need a full version of Acrobat. Reader will let you fill it out initially, but doesn't save the data.
A minor drawback is that it is only a single page. So, if you fill it out with Acrobat, you can save it as "PC tracker sheet 01", then create a new one for sheet 02, 03, etc. I know that isn't ideal, but it keeps me from having to make it size category Gargantuan.
