New FAQ, Improved Familiars and wands


Pathfinder Society

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Silver Crusade 5/5

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PFS FAQ wrote:

Can my animal companion or familiar wear or use magic items?

It is intended that animal companions or familiars can not activate magic items.

(Note: only the relevant section of the FAQ answer included to save space)

Does this mean that improved familiars with hands can no longer use wands? I know that there are forum postings that say that they can, but the FAQ seems to take precedence.

Scarab Sages 4/5 5/5

Interesting stealth change...

FAQ wrote:
The only exception to this would be an brownie, imp, lyrakien azata, or quasit familiar gained with the Improved Familiar feat. One could reasonably face either of these wielding a wand or wearing a circlet of persuasion in combat, and after investing a feat to gain their service, they are not limited by the same restrictions as normal bonded creatures like animals

This sort of text no longer appears.

Was this is a clerical blunder? Or can imps still use wands?

Especially after things like this.

Silver Crusade 5/5

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Bumping, since I expect it may have been lost in the shuffle.

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

You may have to rebump it after Gencon, you might not get an answer till people are done with that.

5/5

The FAQ section regarding familiars, animal companions, and magic items lists several familiars as having humanoid shapes and all slots. I think Mike Broke has said that the ones listed there can activate magic items.

5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Massachusetts—Central & West

Mahtobedis wrote:
The FAQ section regarding familiars, animal companions, and magic items lists several familiars as having humanoid shapes and all slots. I think Mike Broke has said that the ones listed there can activate magic items.

It no longer says that as Walter pointed out, which is the whole point of asking for clarification.

Dark Archive 4/5

Interesting. Based on this, anyone who does not own a copy of the Animal Archive can no longer use their familiar to use wands. Is this intentional?

Silver Crusade 2/5

Sounds like a shameless scheme to sell product :)

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

I wouldn't call it "shameless". More like, "sound".

1/5

From the FAQ it does sound like you now need the animal archive for improved familiars to use wands. Without it all you have is barding and a neck slot. I can see a LOT of players being pissed off about the change if it holds true. I hope Mike or John give us a confirmation on intent before GenCon. I can see a lot of players with familiars caught off guard.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

Familiars like the Quasit, Lyrakien, and Imp still have all slots open. It's just up in the air as to whether or not they can zap wands.

1/5

So are you worried that improved familiars can't use wands or that they can't without the player owning the animal archive?

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

My Magus' Quasit doesn't use a wand. He primarily just delivers my Shocking Grasps when invisible. My Oracle will be getting a Lyrakien Azata in a few levels, but that'll be to primarily deliver my Cure spells. So this issue really doesn't effect me.

It makes sense if you wish your Animal Companion or Familiar to have extra item slots that you need the Animal Archive. Wands are slotless so I'd think an Improved Familiar could try to UMD them. If campaign management doesn't want our "friends" to use magic items, I'm fine with that, too. But the ability to wield a wand shouldn't hinder on ownership of the Animal Archive. Familiars were using wands long before that book came out.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

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Nefreet wrote:

My Magus' Quasit doesn't use a wand. He primarily just delivers my Shocking Grasps when invisible. My Oracle will be getting a Lyrakien Azata in a few levels, but that'll be to primarily deliver my Cure spells. So this issue really doesn't effect me.

It makes sense if you wish your Animal Companion or Familiar to have extra item slots that you need the Animal Archive. Wands are slotless so I'd think an Improved Familiar could try to UMD them. If campaign management doesn't want our "friends" to use magic items, I'm fine with that, too. But the ability to wield a wand shouldn't hinder on ownership of the Animal Archive. Familiars were using wands long before that book came out.

Wand use doesn't require the book for those few improved familiars - brownie, faerie dragon, imp, lyrakien azata, mephit, quasit, sprite familiars - gained with the Improved Familiar feat

It can use a wand since it is slotless. It uses its master's UMD. No other animal companions or familiars can activate a magic item.

3/5

Michael Brock wrote:


It can use a wand since it is slotless. It uses its master's UMD. No other animal companions or familiars can activate a magic item.

What about an AC with stat bumps in int raising it well above 3, with skills in UMD?

Having an ape with int over 2 spend skills on UMD would be legal.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

PFS FAQ wrote:

Can my animal companion or familiar wear or use magic items?

It is intended that animal companions or familiars can not activate magic items.

5/5

Michael Brock wrote:
Nefreet wrote:

My Magus' Quasit doesn't use a wand. He primarily just delivers my Shocking Grasps when invisible. My Oracle will be getting a Lyrakien Azata in a few levels, but that'll be to primarily deliver my Cure spells. So this issue really doesn't effect me.

It makes sense if you wish your Animal Companion or Familiar to have extra item slots that you need the Animal Archive. Wands are slotless so I'd think an Improved Familiar could try to UMD them. If campaign management doesn't want our "friends" to use magic items, I'm fine with that, too. But the ability to wield a wand shouldn't hinder on ownership of the Animal Archive. Familiars were using wands long before that book came out.

Wand use doesn't require the book for those few improved familiars - brownie, imp, lyrakien azata, or quasit familiar - gained with the Improved Familiar feat

It can use a wand since it is slotless. It uses its master's UMD. No other animal companions or familiars can activate a magic item.

Does the Diabolist's imp companion fall into this category as well (since it's an imp) or is it out of luck (since it's an AC)?

Grand Lodge 4/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

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Patrick Harris @ MU wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
Nefreet wrote:

My Magus' Quasit doesn't use a wand. He primarily just delivers my Shocking Grasps when invisible. My Oracle will be getting a Lyrakien Azata in a few levels, but that'll be to primarily deliver my Cure spells. So this issue really doesn't effect me.

It makes sense if you wish your Animal Companion or Familiar to have extra item slots that you need the Animal Archive. Wands are slotless so I'd think an Improved Familiar could try to UMD them. If campaign management doesn't want our "friends" to use magic items, I'm fine with that, too. But the ability to wield a wand shouldn't hinder on ownership of the Animal Archive. Familiars were using wands long before that book came out.

Wand use doesn't require the book for those few improved familiars - brownie, imp, lyrakien azata, or quasit familiar - gained with the Improved Familiar feat

It can use a wand since it is slotless. It uses its master's UMD. No other animal companions or familiars can activate a magic item.

Does the Diabolist's imp AC fall into this category as well?

Yep

5/5

Michael Brock wrote:
Patrick Harris @ MU wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
Nefreet wrote:

My Magus' Quasit doesn't use a wand. He primarily just delivers my Shocking Grasps when invisible. My Oracle will be getting a Lyrakien Azata in a few levels, but that'll be to primarily deliver my Cure spells. So this issue really doesn't effect me.

It makes sense if you wish your Animal Companion or Familiar to have extra item slots that you need the Animal Archive. Wands are slotless so I'd think an Improved Familiar could try to UMD them. If campaign management doesn't want our "friends" to use magic items, I'm fine with that, too. But the ability to wield a wand shouldn't hinder on ownership of the Animal Archive. Familiars were using wands long before that book came out.

Wand use doesn't require the book for those few improved familiars - brownie, imp, lyrakien azata, or quasit familiar - gained with the Improved Familiar feat

It can use a wand since it is slotless. It uses its master's UMD. No other animal companions or familiars can activate a magic item.

Does the Diabolist's imp AC fall into this category as well?
Yep

Heh. I just rephrased my question because I realized my wording was vague but you were too quick for me. I assume you read "this category" as being able to use wands, rather than "everyone else," but if my question was read backwards (which would be my fault), my bad. I'm going to assume you cleverly understood my poor phrasing, however, given your answer.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

Patrick Harris @ MU wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
Patrick Harris @ MU wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
Nefreet wrote:

My Magus' Quasit doesn't use a wand. He primarily just delivers my Shocking Grasps when invisible. My Oracle will be getting a Lyrakien Azata in a few levels, but that'll be to primarily deliver my Cure spells. So this issue really doesn't effect me.

It makes sense if you wish your Animal Companion or Familiar to have extra item slots that you need the Animal Archive. Wands are slotless so I'd think an Improved Familiar could try to UMD them. If campaign management doesn't want our "friends" to use magic items, I'm fine with that, too. But the ability to wield a wand shouldn't hinder on ownership of the Animal Archive. Familiars were using wands long before that book came out.

Wand use doesn't require the book for those few improved familiars - brownie, imp, lyrakien azata, or quasit familiar - gained with the Improved Familiar feat

It can use a wand since it is slotless. It uses its master's UMD. No other animal companions or familiars can activate a magic item.

Does the Diabolist's imp AC fall into this category as well?
Yep
Heh. I just rephrased my question because I realized my wording was vague but you were too quick for me. I assume you read "this category" as being able to use wands, rather than "everyone else," but if my question was read backwards (which would be my fault), my bad. I'm going to assume you cleverly understood my poor phrasing, however, given your answer.

Yep

Shadow Lodge 5/5

From the FAERIE DRAGON LEGAL FOR PFS?.

Michael Brock wrote:
Yes it can use a wand. It uses its master's UMD. I will get it added to the FAQ. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

I am confused

the FAQ was updated to say that

FAQ wrote:
The brownie, faerie dragon, imp, lyrakien azata, mephit, quasit, sprite familiars, granted by the Improved Familiar feat, use the Biped (hands) section of the chart.

is this still the case with Faerie dragons ?

Edited for Formatting

Grand Lodge 4/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

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Wraith235 wrote:

From the FAERIE DRAGON LEGAL FOR PFS?

Michael Brock wrote:
Yes it can use a wand. It uses its master's UMD. I will get it added to the FAQ. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

I am confused

the FAQ was updated to say that

FAQ wrote:
The brownie, faerie dragon, imp, lyrakien azata, mephit, quasit, sprite familiars, granted by the Improved Familiar feat, use the Biped (hands) section of the chart.

is this still the case with Faerie dragons ?

Yep. Updated above.

Shadow Lodge 3/5

The FAQ says:

"The brownie, faerie dragon, imp, lyrakien azata, mephit, quasit, sprite familiars, granted by the Improved Familiar feat, use the Biped (hands) section of the chart. The carbuncle and voidworm protean, familiars granted by the Improved Familiar feat, uses the Serpentine section of the chart. If you do not own a copy of the Animal Archive, your animal companion may only use barding and neck-slot items."

It mentions animal companion at the end and not animal companion\familiar. I thought the ruling for Biped (hands) Improved Familiar's can wear\wield whatever, provided of course that it is available on the Biped (hands) chart. That is still correct right? And if so is it only correct if you have the Animal Archive?


the FAQ doesn't seem to be clearly covering the distinction between using wands/scrolls and using/activating slotted item, even though michael's responces indicate that it is meant to cover at least wands.

i don't understand michael's response here... the FAQ says:

Quote:
It is intended that animal companions or familiars can not activate magic items.
and then talks a bunch about slots.
michael brock wrote:

Wand use doesn't require the book for those few improved familiars - brownie, imp, lyrakien azata, or quasit familiar - gained with the Improved Familiar feat

It can use a wand since it is slotless. It uses its master's UMD. No other animal companions or familiars can activate a magic item.

where is the exception for 'slotless' items and activating items in the FAQ? the FAQ just flat out says you cannot activate items, and doesn't exclude any companion/familiar or any class of item from that restriction.

it gives a list of certain improved familiars and says they are on the biped part of the chart. what does that mean for anybody who doesn't have animal archive, which you say isn't needed for them to use wands? (what about scrolls?) somehow that is supposed to give them an exemption to use wands (and scrolls?), i take it? yet the rest of the text suggests to me that this table is modifying their item slots...? should we understand that list of creatures as being exclusive, or that other familiars/companions may qualify to be on that 'biped' list? (whatever it does, exactly) if this is to apply to people who don't have animal archive, the FAQ needs to spell out exactly what is going on better.

why is faerie dragon on that list but not pseudodragons? or tidepool dragons?
why not elementals or homonculus? why not ravens/parrots? (for wands)
why not clockwork familiars? (for wands)? why not cassissian angels? (in small human form)
why not arbiters? why not tripurasura? why not nuglub gremlins?
why not ratlings? (they can already use scrolls, why not wands?)

chimpanzee animal companions cannot speak, but they should be able to do gestures necessary for non-Verbal scrolls (UMD), right?

why isn't it just a case of a general rule:
WANDS: can you hold an object and speak?
SCROLLS: can you speak (if Verbal spell) and do you have hands to make gestures (if Somatic), or pertain to a species that can otherwise cast, e.g. dragons?

EDIT: OK, I found the chart from Animal Archive on d20pfsrd. All it discusses is slots, not granting certain types of creatures the ability to use wands or scrolls. The closest thing to what has been insinuated about that subject is the following: "Some creature body types are able to grasp and carry one object at a time in their paws, claws, or hands, including weapons, rods, wands, and staves, though they may not be able to use such items effectively (GM's discretion) and take penalties for nonproficiency as usual. These are indicated by "Yes" in the "Grasp/Carry" column in the table below." with Avians, Bipeds(Claws), and Bipeds(Hands) all able to "Grasp/Carry", NOT just "Bipeds". I assume Grasp/Carry and Speech is what is needed for Wands, but that includes many creatures not in the list Michael mentions. The situation is unclear for scrolls, although it plausibly requires Hands to unfurl a scroll that is not already layed out (albeit that doesn't restrict using scrolls that ARE suitably layed out). There are also Spell Tattoos (similar to Scrolls) which do not require unfurling (but each spell still has it's own requirements of Verbal/Somatic).
I'm not even clear on the topic of activating Slotted Items, whether all creatures can activate all items they have Slots for? No such restriction is in the Animal Slot rules. Are all Companions/Familiars including the ones Michael mentioned not supposed to be able to activate slotted Items (for which they have the Slots)? Is there some exemption for some classes of companions/familiars?

3/5

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So with eldritch heritage, I could get an animal companion a spell-like ability and then get the AC a familiar so it can use wands for the AC.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

I believe Eldritch Heritage requires a fairly decent Charisma score, which most animals won't have, especially if you're already upping its Intelligence so it can take Eldritch Heritage to begin with.

Dark Archive 4/5

Nefreet wrote:
I believe Eldritch Heritage requires a fairly decent Charisma score, which most animals won't have, especially if you're already upping its Intelligence so it can take Eldritch Heritage to begin with.

Headbands would fulfill feat prerequisites, if we want to be silly about this. Also, the velociraptor starts with 14.

3/5

Deinonychus(core) has 14 cha, of the 13

Plus you could spend one feat on extra headslot for headband of int and cha if you did not want a dinosaur. Granted it is silly. But I do love me some D&D silliness

edit* gah workingthese posts between calls leave room for ninjas

Grand Lodge 4/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

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Felix Gaunt wrote:

The FAQ says:

"The brownie, faerie dragon, imp, lyrakien azata, mephit, quasit, sprite familiars, granted by the Improved Familiar feat, use the Biped (hands) section of the chart. The carbuncle and voidworm protean, familiars granted by the Improved Familiar feat, uses the Serpentine section of the chart. If you do not own a copy of the Animal Archive, your animal companion may only use barding and neck-slot items."

It mentions animal companion at the end and not animal companion\familiar. I thought the ruling for Biped (hands) Improved Familiar's can wear\wield whatever, provided of course that it is available on the Biped (hands) chart. That is still correct right? And if so is it only correct if you have the Animal Archive?

This is correct. You folks are going to get me in trouble. My wife has me at an event and I can only tell her so many times that I'm checking my Gen Con flight and hotel info ;-)

This was the FAQ as it was updated when the AA came it and is what PFS has been going by for months.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

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Quandary wrote:

the FAQ doesn't seem to be clearly covering the distinction between using wands/scrolls and using/activating slotted item, even though michael's responces indicate that it is meant to cover at least wands.

i don't understand michael's response here... the FAQ says:

Quote:
It is intended that animal companions or familiars can not activate magic items.
and then talks a bunch about slots.
michael brock wrote:

Wand use doesn't require the book for those few improved familiars - brownie, imp, lyrakien azata, or quasit familiar - gained with the Improved Familiar feat

It can use a wand since it is slotless. It uses its master's UMD. No other animal companions or familiars can activate a magic item.

where is the exception for 'slotless' items and activating items in the FAQ? the FAQ just flat out says you cannot activate items, and doesn't exclude any companion/familiar or any class of item from that restriction.

Improved familiars listed above can activate wands as mentioned above. Other ACs and familiars can not. Also, ACs and familiars only get the two slots unless the player owns AA.

Shadow Lodge 3/5

Michael Brock wrote:
Felix Gaunt wrote:

The FAQ says:

"The brownie, faerie dragon, imp, lyrakien azata, mephit, quasit, sprite familiars, granted by the Improved Familiar feat, use the Biped (hands) section of the chart. The carbuncle and voidworm protean, familiars granted by the Improved Familiar feat, uses the Serpentine section of the chart. If you do not own a copy of the Animal Archive, your animal companion may only use barding and neck-slot items."

It mentions animal companion at the end and not animal companion\familiar. I thought the ruling for Biped (hands) Improved Familiar's can wear\wield whatever, provided of course that it is available on the Biped (hands) chart. That is still correct right? And if so is it only correct if you have the Animal Archive?

This is correct. You folks are going to get me in trouble. My wife has me at an event and I can only tell her so many times that I'm checking my Gen Con flight and hotel info ;-)

This was the FAQ as it was updated when the AA came it and is what PFS has been going by for months.

Hah, ok will do! Don't want you to get in trouble with the missus, thanks for the quick reply. Enjoy your shindig!


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

***PLEASE*** deal with this at another time when you are not busy and can do so comprehensively, but I'm still very unclear.

The FAQ is apparently instating a PFS-specific rule that magic items cannot be activated by companions/familiars.
You're posting in this thread (not stated in FAQ to over-ride the general prohibition)
that the listed familiars can use Wands, but I'm not sure the reason for that.
Clarifying that those creatures are in the Biped (which? Clawed or Hands?) or Serpentine categories doesn't really indicate anything beyond what Slots they may qualify for, or conflict with other creatures also qualifying to be in those categories.
The FAQ prohibition on activating magic items still applies to scrolls, which directly negates the Ratling's own racial ability,
as well as slotted / un-slotted magic items that are not wands or scrolls, and that still applies to the given list (faery dragons, etc).
(with the exception of ioun stones which any creature of INT 3+ can activate, per the FAQ)

Grand Lodge 4/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

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Here is the entire FAQ. Please let me know what you are not clear on:

It is intended that animal companions or familiars can not activate magic items. An animal companion could benefit from an item with a continuous magical effect like an amulet of natural armor if its master equipped the item for the animal companion. Animal companions of any type may not use manufactured weapons.

Animal companions are also limited by their individual anatomies. In Pathfinder Society Organized Play, animal companions always have access to barding and neck-slot items so long as they have the anatomy. For example, a horse and pig can always have access to barding and neck-slot items. A snake does not have access to either. However, an item called out to be used by a specific animal is usable by that animal regardless of slot.

Additionally, animal companions have access to magical item slots, in addition to barding and neck, as listed on the inside front cover of the Animal Archive so long as they select the Extra Item Slot feat. The Animal Magic Item Slots table found in Animal Archive is not a legal except under the following conditions. First, an animal companion, familiar, or bonded mount, may choose one slot listed under its body type when taking the Extra Item Slot feat (this feat may be taken multiple times, each time selecting a different available magic item slot based on the creature’s anatomy). Second, access to specific magic item slots may be granted at a later date by another legal source. If you do not own a copy of the Animal Archive, your animal companion may only use barding and neck-slot items.

An animal or familiar has to have an intelligence of 3+ to activate an ioun stone. If the animal or familiar has less than a 3 intelligence, they may not activate an ioun stone.

The brownie, faerie dragon, imp, lyrakien azata, mephit, quasit, sprite familiars, granted by the Improved Familiar feat, use the Biped (hands) section of the chart. The carbuncle and voidworm protean, familiars granted by the Improved Familiar feat, uses the Serpentine section of the chart. If you do not own a copy of the Animal Archive, your animal companion may only use barding and neck-slot items.

If someone will remind me, after Gen Con, we will add the following:

Wand use doesn't require the Animal Archive for these few improved familiars - brownie, faerie dragon, imp, lyrakien azata, mephit, quasit, sprite familiars - gained with the Improved Familiar feat. They use their master's UMD when activating a wand.

No other activated item may be used, to include scrolls, by any animal companion, familiar, or improved familiar.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

I think the only thing that is being left out of that FAQ is that Improved Familiars can still activate wands, using their master's ranks in UMD. Everything else seems crystal clear.

Ninja'd by your edit!

Grand Lodge 4/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

Quandary wrote:


The FAQ prohibition on activating magic items still applies to scrolls, which directly negates the Ratling's own racial ability,

The ratling is not a legal choice for PFS.

Per Additional Resources, the only thing legal from Pathfinder Adventure Path #49: "The Brinewall Legacy" Is the following: Equipment:dancing wasp.

Per that book, "...the spellcaster must be chaotic evil and at least 7th level." So, it wouldn't be a legal choice in PFS and why it wasn't added as an option in Additional Resources.


What is Animal Archive changing about Wand usage for the listed creatures, but not other creatures?
I can't tell that it does anything there, Avians/Bipeds(all) as a whole can explicitly 'Grasp' Wands, and Speech is a self-sufficiently obvious pre-req there. Even if you were ruling (beyond what AA states) that some Avians/Bipeds cannot use Wands due to their form, plenty of other Familiars have equivalent forms (hands/draconic) to the ones listed, yet aren't on the list...

Or are you saying that (only) with Animal Archive, Wand use IS potentially open to any otherwise qualifying creature (can hold it, can speak), and you are just making an exception re: owning AA for that limited list "just because"?

What exactly is the basis of that limited list, vs. other Familiars/ Companions with the means to use Wands?
Why cannot any Familiar/Companion activate Scrolls or other magical items (besides Ioun Stones)
even when the given creature may be smarter than some PCs, and may have no physical impediment to doing so?
(would the same creatures be able to use such items if Dismissed by their Master during an adventure, subsequently Charmed so as to continue being of use?)

michael brock wrote:

The ratling is not a legal choice for PFS.

Per Additional Resources, the only thing legal from Pathfinder Adventure Path #49: "The Brinewall Legacy" Is the following: Equipment:dancing wasp.
Per that book, "...the spellcaster must be chaotic evil and at least 7th level." So, it wouldn't be a legal choice in PFS and why it wasn't added as an option in Additional Resources.

AFAIK, this is a general rule for PFS gameplay, meaning it affects what Chaotic Evil NPC's Ratling Familiars can do...?

When you update the FAQ, it would help if it is organized better. Putting a restriction on magic item use at the top, then several paragraphs of item slot stuff, then the list of special familiars as an exeption to the magic item use rule for Wands at the very bottom is just very non-obvious and poorly organized. Both distinct subjects CAN fit in the same FAQ entry, but they should be dealt with clearly: if there is a specific exeption to the magic use rules, that should be directly adjacent to the given restriction... not confuse things with references to Item Slots and AA Biped Categories which aren't especially relevant to the discrete PFS-specific restriction on magic item use.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

Animal Archive changed nothing about wand usage. This is a ruling for the PFS campaign. The two have nothing to do with each other.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

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It's not changing anything and it isn't new. Why its red is because it was moved from one section to another. It is the same FAQ that has been in place for months.

I'm saying that a wand is an activated magic item. It is the ONLY magic item that can be activated from a select handful of improved familiars. Activated items aren't generally available for any AC or familiar except in this very limited circumstance for those very few listed improved familiar.

Even with Animal Archive, activated items are not an option except with wands for the few listed improved familiars.

This is a general PFS rule that was established long ago to try and help maintain balance. Future options may be opened, such as allowing elementals and the like to have access to activated items. However, at this time, we are not considering those options.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

Quandary wrote:


When you update the FAQ, it would help if it is organized better. Putting a restriction on magic item use at the top, then several paragraphs of item slot stuff, then the list of special familiars as an exeption to the magic item use rule for Wands at the very bottom is just very non-obvious and poorly organized. Both...

Several days ago, we moved all of the questions and clarifications from the consolidated sticky post into the FAQ to make it more concise to point to in the guide. We have been very busy preparing for Gen Con. Once we have some free time, we will reorganize the FAQ into a better list. We simply haven't had time to do that yet. Since we haven't had time to do an adequate job, If you would like to offer up a list of the order and consolidatin that would be most easy for the player base to utilize, feel free to email that to me. Otherwise, this is a low priority with everything else we are working on and the info is at least accessible. We will try to do better in the future.

2/5

So can a monkey familiar play a drum using the master's perform if playing a drum activates a slot less item? For example I've seen goblin war drums used like this before in pfs.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

Quandary wrote:


michael brock wrote:

The ratling is not a legal choice for PFS.

Per Additional Resources, the only thing legal from Pathfinder Adventure Path #49: "The Brinewall Legacy" Is the following: Equipment:dancing wasp.
Per that book, "...the spellcaster must be chaotic evil and at least 7th level." So, it wouldn't be a legal choice in PFS and why it wasn't added as an option in Additional Resources.

AFAIK, this is a general rule for PFS gameplay, meaning it affects what Chaotic Evil NPC's Ratling Familiars can do...?

...

This isn't a general PFS rule. A requirement to take a Ratling as a familiar is that the caster be Chaotic Evil. Here is the entire paragraph.

A ratling can serve a spellcaster as a familiar if the spellcaster has the Improved Familiar feat. In order to gain a ratling familiar, the spellcaster must be chaotic evil and at least 7th level. A spellcaster with a ratling familiar typically carries numerous scrolls on his person for the ratling to access during combat.

It clearly states the spellcaster must be CE. It doesn't have anything to do with the affects a CE evil NPC ratings familiar can do. There is no ambiguity with "spellcaster must be chaotic evil." It is one of three prerequisites the spellcaster must meet to choose a ratling as an improved familiar.

Since CE is not an allowed alignment to be chosen in PFS, this improved familiar is not an option, and never has been, in PFS.

Are there any other questions?

Grand Lodge 4/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

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Furious Kender wrote:
So can a monkey familiar play a drum using the master's perform if playing a drum activates a slot less item? For example I've seen goblin war drums used like this before in pfs.

No. The only activated item that can be used (with the exception of ioun stones) by a select list of improved familiars is a wand. So, for your specific question, a monkey familiar can not play a drum that activates a slot less item. This is a PFS specific rule. Perhaps in a home game, your GM will allow it. For PFS, your GM chooses not to allow it.


It was just confusing because the FAQ specifically associated the limited Wand-Using Familiar list with the Biped table... not mentioning Wands at all, and that list's exclusive access to Wands (vs. all Grasping, Speaking creatures) isn't inferrable from the Biped table.

I don't see ANY reason to call out those creatures specifically as fitting on the Biped/Serpentine list, plenty of other Familiars/Companions will require reading of descriptions to ascertain what list they are on as well. The only reason that list needs to be called out is because you are giving them special Wand priveledges (unlike their very similar cousins), so best not to associate it with the Biped/Slot issue at all, as that just confuses things. If it's considered that for the Slot issue alone, it is needed to call out the Wand-users as belonging on the Biped list, there probably are other non-Wand-user Familiars that also deserve that clarification.

I understand that you can get around to adjusting the actual FAQ when you get around to it... and if you can revisit the list of Wand-user Familiars at any point in the future, that's great too, I've been baffled why many e.g. Pseudodragons don't qualify.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

As this is the first time in 6 months that anyone has expressed confusion, we will look at it again after Gen Con. However, from feedback I and the VO team have received, there has been no confusion until today.


Michael Brock wrote:
Quandary wrote:
AFAIK, this is a general rule for PFS gameplay, meaning it affects what Chaotic Evil NPC's Ratling Familiars can do...?
This isn't a general PFS rule. A requirement to take a Ratling as a familiar is that the caster be Chaotic Evil... Since CE is not an allowed alignment to be chosen in PFS, this improved familiar is not an option, and never has been, in PFS.

Yes, it's obvious that the Ratling is not an option for PFS PC's, that's why I mentioned them explicitly in the context of NPCs. But you have written: "No other animal companions or familiars can activate a magic item." I'm not sure why that doesn't apply to NPC's Familiars? If you're making a rule only for PC Familiars, and NPC Familiars can be expected to activate any host of magical items (and could do so when Charmed by PCs), that isn't an issue. But your statement on the topic wasn't restricted to PCs, it just said "no other companions or familiars", that's why I asked.

In some places you're saying this is a general rule, in some places you're saying it isn't. The point is that what PFS has put out in posts and the FAQ is confusing, because it is associating the Wand Familiar List with the AA rules, i.e. suggesting a link to how the rules in general should work (the AA Slot rules do work the same for PCs and NPCs, right?). I'm not trying to argue about whether PCs and NPCs should have the same limitations, I'm just trying to make sense of what rulings you've put out. Thanks for your work here.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

Quandary wrote:
Yes, it's obvious that the Ratling is not an option for PFS PC's. Nothing I wrote suggested otherwise. But you have written: "No other animal companions or familiars can activate a magic item." I'm not sure why that doesn't apply to NPC's Familiars? If you're making a rule only for PC Familiars, and NPC Familiars can be expected to activate any host of magical items (and could do so when Charmed by PCs), that isn't an issue. But your statement on the topic wasn't restricted to PCs, it just said "no other companions or familiars", that's why I asked.

Because the rules that apply to NPCs are different than the rules that apply to PCs. NPCs can be evil. PCs can't. NPCs can be anti,paladins. PCs cant. NPCs can be dragon or drow or gnolls. PCs cant. NPCs cannhave familiars that can activate magic itemsmto help combat against the curve they are behind in action economymof combat. PCs dont need even more action economy on their side. They are already well ahead of the curve, especially when it is one single BBEG. Should I continue?

When I am making statements or answering questions, as you pointed out, I thought you were asking about PCs since generally that is what people's questions revolve around. This is then first time anyone even brought up NPCs. If you want to debate NPCs and pick apart semantics, then I will just go ahead and leave this conversation. I feel that the goal post are now being moved and it isn't worth the frustration on my day off.

5/5

Quandary wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
Quandary wrote:
AFAIK, this is a general rule for PFS gameplay, meaning it affects what Chaotic Evil NPC's Ratling Familiars can do...?
This isn't a general PFS rule. A requirement to take a Ratling as a familiar is that the caster be Chaotic Evil... Since CE is not an allowed alignment to be chosen in PFS, this improved familiar is not an option, and never has been, in PFS.
Yes, it's obvious that the Ratling is not an option for PFS PC's, that's why I mentioned them explicitly in the context of NPCs. But you have written: "No other animal companions or familiars can activate a magic item." I'm not sure why that doesn't apply to NPC's Familiars? If you're making a rule only for PC Familiars, and NPC Familiars can be expected to activate any host of magical items (and could do so when Charmed by PCs), that isn't an issue. But your statement on the topic wasn't restricted to PCs, it just said "no other companions or familiars", that's why I asked. In some places you're saying this is a general rule, in some places you're saying it isn't.

PFS restrictions only ever apply to PCs.

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

Michael, I think I just found an unintended consequence.

Horseshoe of ... items are all foot slot magic items. In otherwords, they don't work on any horse except for animal companions that have taken the feat Extra Item Slot: Feet

Is that correct?

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

Michael Brock wrote:
As this is the first time in 6 months that anyone has expressed confusion, we will look at it again after Gen Con. However, from feedback I and the VO team have received, there has been no confusion until today.

I think that's because no one noticed it for 6 months. :)

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

Adam Mogyorodi wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
I believe Eldritch Heritage requires a fairly decent Charisma score, which most animals won't have, especially if you're already upping its Intelligence so it can take Eldritch Heritage to begin with.
Headbands would fulfill feat prerequisites, if we want to be silly about this. Also, the velociraptor starts with 14.

That would then require an extra feat though, since it now takes a feat to wear a headband on an AC

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