Inventory Tracking Sheet


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Grand Lodge 4/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

Greasitty wrote:

That is very generous of you Mike! For Gencon specifically I am covered, I am rooming with a VL friend who is one of our big motivations to go to Indianapolis. I am sure he will get my husband and I set up to start.

What I am wondering about is what happens after that. My character sheets are indeed hand-written, as are those of a some of folks I game with. None of us have consistent access to printing. I don't know how common our situation is, but surely there must be a few others like us. How people could lack consistent printing access is certainly variable - for some friends it is lack of money to put in for printer ink, for others a disability that means even with money they can't just go to a print shop. I'm trying to keep personal stuff out of this, and just talk about the general limited-printing situation.

I think of just this past Monday, going to a game that had been scheduled on just two days notice. I realized a few hours before the game that the character I had claimed I was playing had leveled on his last GM credit and was no longer appropriate. So I wrote out a new paladin who would be appropriate, and we had a great time. Under a stickler version of this new setup, by my understanding he wouldn't even have been allowed to purchase his starting equipment.

When I agree to GM, we have time to talk about who in the group that is going to play will make the chronicle printing happen. If no one has the ability, we can't play. That is a requirement of the organized campaign I can plan around. I'm not excited about addding to that planning the requirement that someone commit to making enough inventory sheets for any printerless folks that need one as well, but again, I could plan around it.

As a player, the inability to take my paper, pencil, hardcopy PF books and make a legal PFS character with equipment on the fly for me or a new person to the group is something I can't plan around as easily. I don't know in advance when I will need or want to do that. I could even be put in a situation...

If it is a genuine inability to get a few printed sheets, work with your local VCs and/or VLs. Most of them won't mind printing a couple of copies off. And if they do, I will reimburse them the $0.05 it cost to print the sheets off.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

Patrick Harris @ MU wrote:
If the purpose of the inventory tracking sheet is to make audits easier, how is leaving off mundane equipment going to do anything but confuse people?

If the purchase of mundane equipment is set to 25 or more, then the variance in GP is only going to be a few hundred gold most likely. If that is the case, and the question comes up in the audit, then the player can simply explain that the variance is due to the purchase of mundane equipment and show the Chronicle sheet where the purchase of said mundane equipment was noted in the Notes section at the bottom of the sheet.

5/5

You could use a type writer... :p

The problem of and writing is nothing new. Honestly some of my chronicles look really sketch because I found a mistake that wound up carrying through a bunch of Chronicles and involved lots of scratching out in ink and correcting in the margins.

Scarab Sages 4/5 5/5

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Michael Brock wrote:
If it is a genuine inability to get a few printed sheets, work with your local VCs and/or VLs. Most of them won't mind printing a couple of copies off. And if they do, I will reimburse them the $0.05 it cost to print the sheets off

Just flout your wealth, why don't 'ya.

Silver Crusade 4/5

Ok, apparently I missed a major point earlier when I expressed my approval for the tracking sheet. GMs really need to initial next to every purchase? Heck, even GMs needing to initial next to a block of purchases done at once would be an inconvenience I wasn't expecting, but initialing next to each line is going to cause hand cramps, and as others have mentioned, that could take quite a bit of time.

There's no way in hell you're going to convince GMs to initial every line item purchase on these sheets.

Really, I thought the inventory tracking sheet was for the players to keep track of their purchases, without ever needing a GM to look at them unless they're doing an audit. Why do we need a GM approval at the time the purchase is done? Isn't that what the later audits are for?

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Michael Brock wrote:
Hobbun wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
I'm writing into the new Guide that it is all magic items that need to be recorded on the sheet. Mundane equipment does not need to be recorded. mundane equipment can just be listed on the Chronicle. Since there isn't a GM initial box on the Inventory Tracking Form, the GM should initial to the left of the entry line. Thanks for the input.

Mike,

Well, there are some pretty expensive mundane items as well. Like special materials and (non-magical) consumables can add up.

So I’m just saying there could be some relatively big gaps with player funds when GMs audit with the tracking sheet.

Then we can include a line that it is any magical item and any mundane item valued at XX GP or higher. Thoughts?

Anything that would require 4 fame or higher to purchase (even if its always available, look at the fame chart to see what fame would be required if it weren't always available).

Grand Lodge 4/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

trollbill wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
Mahtobedis wrote:
What should a GM do if time is very tight and there are a large number of players who need to get their items purchased?
Take the 30 seconds per sheet to initial beside each purchase. That would be a max of 3 minutes. The player should be responsible to have the pages of the book he is purchasing a magic item from open, so the GM can check the gold piece cost if he or she needs to.

Sadly, this will invalidate any digitally printed version of the form that might be much easier for DMs to read than some people's chicken scratches. Heck, I have enough of a problem reading character names and numbers on adventure tracking forms when I go to report an event.

Can I ask why the campaign staff thinks its important to have DMs sign off on every purchase?

I didn't advise every purchase. I advised it was for magical items and mundane items of XX GP. And it is important because the community at large has declared the auditing is too tedious of a task the way it has worked the past five years so we are trying to give a more simple solution of auditing than having to go through each and every Chronicle sheet.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

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Fromper wrote:

Ok, apparently I missed a major point earlier when I expressed my approval for the tracking sheet. GMs really need to initial next to every purchase? Heck, even GMs needing to initial next to a block of purchases done at once would be an inconvenience I wasn't expecting, but initialing next to each line is going to cause hand cramps, and as others have mentioned, that could take quite a bit of time.

There's no way in hell you're going to convince GMs to initial every line item purchase on these sheets.

Really, I thought the inventory tracking sheet was for the players to keep track of their purchases, without ever needing a GM to look at them unless they're doing an audit. Why do we need a GM approval at the time the purchase is done? Isn't that what the later audits are for?

How about drawing a bracket from the top item purchased to the bottom item purchased and initialing to the left one time. Would that alleviate any hand cramp issues and speed up the process?


I was actually thinking of a low number as well, 25 sounds good.

What I think this is supposed to eliminate is the extremely cheap items or permanent items you rarely have to replace (flint, ink pen, bedroll, backpack, low quality armor, rope, etc.). A lot of the items you usually buy at character creation.

These are items that are not going to add up over the long haul, unlike expensive mundane items (special materials) or worthwhile mundane consumable items where you may go through a lot of them over the character’s history.

The Exchange 5/5

In terms of the XX gp threshold for mundane items. 500 isn't bad, but I do foresee a bit of a problem with things like weapon blanches and alchemical weapons (acid/alchemist's fire/etc.) Those things are like bread and water for a lot of PCs, especially at lower level.

Also, what about the tiny things? My characters carry around a signal whistle, a mirror, 50' of twine, bits of chalk, candles, wear a belt pouch, and so forth. Now, most of those things are down in the sub-one-goldpiece realm, and don't even register in folks minds, but there are some amazingly clever solutions to problems that can be solved with these small things. If we aren't tracking those things, will folks be assumed to have them, or to not have them?

Personally, if I am GMing a scenario with an invisible protagonist, and a PC says he is going to chuck a bag of powder (1 COPPER piece) in that square, is it worth the trouble to check their sheet and make sure they paid a copper piece for that item? It's a pretty dang significant mechanical effect for basically no cost (although some low strength PCs might be worried about the 1/2 lb weight).

Am I an overly tough GM to make the PC show me he purchased that item?

If a PC throws five alchemist's fires in a scenario to combat swarms, do we need to make sure he marks those off at the end of the scenario?

I foresee a LOT of added GM tracking required at the end of each scenario. "Hey, PC#3, I remember you read a scroll of comprehend languages, drank a potion of fly, threw two vials of acid, and used a cold iron blanch, make sure you mark those off on the tracking sheet." That's a lot of extra information for me to be trying to remember while I run.

5/5

I really like the new tracking sheet. My only concern has been the time it could take in a worst case scenario of multiple people with multiple purchases that need to be looked up in tight time slot. It is a pretty fringe concern. If the players take to long to get things together for me to sign and I'm pressed for time I'm just going to tell them they can't purchase it then.

What I really like about the tracking sheet is that it will make it easy for GM's to track what consumables players have and what they have used. There are players I have played and GM'd for who do not make important notes on their sheets such as scolls used, or damage dealt.

Sovereign Court

Probably over 100gp ... this would keep folks from having to list out all their initial gear, but would catch all special material weapons and armor (save most cold iron weapons).

It may be a good idea to have alchemical items (alchemist fire, acid, etc) required to be listed as well. As one shots they do tend to get used and replaced quite a bit and it would make tracking them a little easier.

5/5

Michael Brock wrote:

How about drawing a bracket from the top item purchased to the bottom item purchased and initialing to the left one time. Would that alleviate any hand cramp issues and speed up the process?

I was planning on doing that if someone was getting a lot of items. Nice to know I'm not the only one who thought of it.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Melbourne

Michael Brock wrote:
trollbill wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
Mahtobedis wrote:
What should a GM do if time is very tight and there are a large number of players who need to get their items purchased?
Take the 30 seconds per sheet to initial beside each purchase. That would be a max of 3 minutes. The player should be responsible to have the pages of the book he is purchasing a magic item from open, so the GM can check the gold piece cost if he or she needs to.

Sadly, this will invalidate any digitally printed version of the form that might be much easier for DMs to read than some people's chicken scratches. Heck, I have enough of a problem reading character names and numbers on adventure tracking forms when I go to report an event.

Can I ask why the campaign staff thinks its important to have DMs sign off on every purchase?

I didn't advise every purchase. I advised it was for magical items and mundane items of XX GP. And it is important because the community at large has declared the auditing is too tedious of a task the way it has worked the past five years so we are trying to give a more simple solution of auditing than having to go through each and every Chronicle sheet.

But isn't having them fill out the track sheet AND getting it initialed simply redundant? Especially when a signature has no bearing on an audit except to say there is a signature. DM signatures do not increase the speed or accuracy of an audit.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

Zandari wrote:


Also, what about the tiny things? My characters carry around a signal whistle, a mirror, 50' of twine, bits of chalk, candles, wear a belt pouch, and so forth. Now, most of those things are down in the sub-one-goldpiece realm, and don't even register in folks minds, but there are some amazingly clever solutions to problems that can be solved with these small things. If we aren't tracking those things, will folks be assumed to have them, or to not have them?

Even setting the XX GP value at 25 eliminates all of those purchases, but still covers most of the weapon blanches and alchemical items.


Zandari wrote:

In terms of the XX gp threshold for mundane items. 500 isn't bad, but I do foresee a bit of a problem with things like weapon blanches and alchemical weapons (acid/alchemist's fire/etc.) Those things are like bread and water for a lot of PCs, especially at lower level.

Also, what about the tiny things? My characters carry around a signal whistle, a mirror, 50' of twine, bits of chalk, candles, wear a belt pouch, and so forth. Now, most of those things are down in the sub-one-goldpiece realm, and don't even register in folks minds, but there are some amazingly clever solutions to problems that can be solved with these small things. If we aren't tracking those things, will folks be assumed to have them, or to not have them?

Personally, if I am GMing a scenario with an invisible protagonist, and a PC says he is going to chuck a bag of powder (1 COPPER piece) in that square, is it worth the trouble to check their sheet and make sure they paid a copper piece for that item? It's a pretty dang significant mechanical effect for basically no cost (although some low strength PCs might be worried about the 1/2 lb weight).

Am I an overly tough GM to make the PC show me he purchased that item?

If a PC throws five alchemist's fires in a scenario to combat swarms, do we need to make sure he marks those off at the end of the scenario?

I foresee a LOT of added GM tracking required at the end of each scenario. "Hey, PC#3, I remember you read a scroll of comprehend languages, drank a potion of fly, threw two vials of acid, and used a cold iron blanch, make sure you mark those off on the tracking sheet." That's a lot of extra information for me to be trying to remember while I run.

In fairness, I think that's all already supposed to be tracked?

In practice, these can be noted down on the tracking sheet as you play, along with anything you buy in game, which is nicer than having to write them down somewhere else to copy them to the Chronicle when you get it.

It does raise an issue though: So far we've talked about the GM initialing purchases. Does he also need to initial sales and expenditures of items?

5/5

It does keep items from appearing on sheets. I'm pretty sure we have all seen it happen where a person thinks they have an item they don't. Shoot I've done it several times myself. I have to double check my items and spells every time I use them just to make sure I actually have that item. Having someone check my work when I'm doing this will be helpful for me.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

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Nathan Hartshorn wrote:

@Zandari

But would a GM really have to track those things? Can't the players be trusted to track them themselves? I know I do.

The players do track those things. But if the GM has a question, instead of having to flip through every Chronicle sheet to find the purchase, the Inventory Tracking Form makes for very quick reference of exactly which Chronicle sheet the purchase was made.

Edit: Which solves the problem of the GMing initials on the ITS. If the Chronicle number is recorded correctly, then there is no need for a GM to initial on the ITS as well. That signature is already on the Chronicle sheet so no need to duplicate efforts (see what happens when a new sheet is created and I am out of the country) :-) It is a self-correcting problem.

5/5 *

I'm happy with that compromise Mike. Like I mentioned before, I plan on listing almost all of it anyway.

On the bracket thing, my original assumption was a GM would initial the LAST item on the purchase sheet, therefore validating any items ABOVE their initials up to the previous initial. Basically the same as the brackets, I guess.

Another suggestion... maybe the Inventory Tracker needs a quick once-over in the Guide, kinda like the section on how to fill a chronicle sheet? I know it's extra words/pagecount, but I think it will be worth it in the long run if we plan to really get people to use it and use it correctly.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Playing devil's advocate a bit here.

Do we need to say that the sheet needs to be filled out in ink? Same for the chronicle sheet (even the portion that the PCs fill out)? Do we need to go that far?

The reason that I ask, is that I have seen chronicle sheets were there appeared to be a bit of wear on the items bought portion of the sheet, where items were written in pencil.

5/5

25 gp

Any less than that and people ain't got time for that.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Melbourne

CRobledo wrote:


Another suggestion... maybe the Inventory Tracker needs a quick once-over in the Guide, kinda like the section on how to fill a chronicle sheet? I know it's extra words/pagecount, but I think it will be worth it in the long run if we plan to really get people to use it and use it correctly.

I definitely agree with this statement.

Scarab Sages 3/5

My concerns about the tracking sheet.

1. Remembering not to set my Woodchuck Cider on any of my sheets when I stay up Saturday night to fill them all out.

2. Legibility of the sheets in case I have too much of that tasty beverage.

3. Remembering all the things I should have bought and always forgot.


Michael Brock wrote:
Nathan Hartshorn wrote:

@Zandari

But would a GM really have to track those things? Can't the players be trusted to track them themselves? I know I do.

The players do track those things. But if the GM has a question, instead of having to flip through every Chronicle sheet to find the purchase, the Inventory Tracking Form makes for very quick reference of exactly which Chronicle sheet the purchase was made.

Until you have dozen of them with only a few items still owned on each.

Not tracking cheap stuff will help with that, but even things like blanches and alchemical fire can count up pretty fast.

If you didn't need a GMs initials on each, then the player could consolidate and then it would just be a quick reference to the appropriate Chronicle - which would be signed.

Shadow Lodge 5/5

Michael Brock wrote:
I'm writing into the new Guide that it is all magic items that need to be recorded on the sheet. Mundane equipment does not need to be recorded. mundane equipment can just be listed on the Chronicle. Since there isn't a GM initial box on the Inventory Tracking Form, the GM should initial to the left of the entry line. Thanks for the input.

I'm absolutely not going to complain since this means less paperwork for me (as the GM).

Grand Lodge 4/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

Michael Brock wrote:
Nathan Hartshorn wrote:

@Zandari

But would a GM really have to track those things? Can't the players be trusted to track them themselves? I know I do.

The players do track those things. But if the GM has a question, instead of having to flip through every Chronicle sheet to find the purchase, the Inventory Tracking Form makes for very quick reference of exactly which Chronicle sheet the purchase was made.

Edit: Which solves the problem of the GMing initials on the ITS. If the Chronicle number is recorded correctly, then there is no need for a GM to initial on the ITS as well. That signature is already on the Chronicle sheet so no need to duplicate efforts (see what happens when a new sheet is created and I am out of the country) :-) It is a self-correcting problem.

See my edit

Shadow Lodge 4/5 *** Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant

Greasitty wrote:
As a player, the inability to take my paper, pencil, hardcopy PF books and make a legal PFS character with equipment on the fly for me or a new person to the group is something I can't plan around as easily. I don't know in advance when I will need or want to do that. I could even be put in a situation where I wouldn't feel comfortable purchasing flavorful and occasionally useful adventuring gear because it would take the remaining slots on my sheet and I don't know when I will get a chance to procure a new one. That doesn't make PFS unplayable or anything, but it does make it a little less accessible.

I don't know of any library that doesn't have a copy machine. They shouldn't be that expensive to get copies made. My local library charges I think $.25 for print outs, I'm not sure if it is the same price for copies or not. Also, if you play with others, I'm sure you could ask nicely, and they'll print extra copies that you can have on hand. Generally the people I've met that play PFS are generous, and willing to help if they can, all you need to do is ask.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

thejeff wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
Nathan Hartshorn wrote:

@Zandari

But would a GM really have to track those things? Can't the players be trusted to track them themselves? I know I do.

The players do track those things. But if the GM has a question, instead of having to flip through every Chronicle sheet to find the purchase, the Inventory Tracking Form makes for very quick reference of exactly which Chronicle sheet the purchase was made.

Until you have dozen of them with only a few items still owned on each.

Not tracking cheap stuff will help with that, but even things like blanches and alchemical fire can count up pretty fast.

If you didn't need a GMs initials on each, then the player could consolidate and then it would just be a quick reference to the appropriate Chronicle - which would be signed.

See my edit

Grand Lodge 3/5

Michael Brock wrote:
Fromper wrote:

Ok, apparently I missed a major point earlier when I expressed my approval for the tracking sheet. GMs really need to initial next to every purchase? Heck, even GMs needing to initial next to a block of purchases done at once would be an inconvenience I wasn't expecting, but initialing next to each line is going to cause hand cramps, and as others have mentioned, that could take quite a bit of time.

There's no way in hell you're going to convince GMs to initial every line item purchase on these sheets.

Really, I thought the inventory tracking sheet was for the players to keep track of their purchases, without ever needing a GM to look at them unless they're doing an audit. Why do we need a GM approval at the time the purchase is done? Isn't that what the later audits are for?

How about drawing a bracket from the top item purchased to the bottom item purchased and initialing to the left one time. Would that alleviate any hand cramp issues and speed up the process?

Why not just add the GM signature bracket at the bottom like chronicles? One place for the GM to look over everything and signoff.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

Kintrik wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
Fromper wrote:

Ok, apparently I missed a major point earlier when I expressed my approval for the tracking sheet. GMs really need to initial next to every purchase? Heck, even GMs needing to initial next to a block of purchases done at once would be an inconvenience I wasn't expecting, but initialing next to each line is going to cause hand cramps, and as others have mentioned, that could take quite a bit of time.

There's no way in hell you're going to convince GMs to initial every line item purchase on these sheets.

Really, I thought the inventory tracking sheet was for the players to keep track of their purchases, without ever needing a GM to look at them unless they're doing an audit. Why do we need a GM approval at the time the purchase is done? Isn't that what the later audits are for?

How about drawing a bracket from the top item purchased to the bottom item purchased and initialing to the left one time. Would that alleviate any hand cramp issues and speed up the process?
Why not just add the GM signature bracket at the bottom like chronicles? One place for the GM to look over everything and signoff.

See my edit

Grand Lodge 4/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

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And if alchemical items and blanches and ammo is problematic, where you are going to go through a lot of them, why not plan one designated ITS just for the alchemical items, or the blanches, or the ammo, and another ITS for all of your other problems. That way, as you use up an alchemical item or blanch or ammo block or whatever, you can just go to the next line when you replenish.


Michael Brock wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
Nathan Hartshorn wrote:

@Zandari

But would a GM really have to track those things? Can't the players be trusted to track them themselves? I know I do.

The players do track those things. But if the GM has a question, instead of having to flip through every Chronicle sheet to find the purchase, the Inventory Tracking Form makes for very quick reference of exactly which Chronicle sheet the purchase was made.

Until you have dozen of them with only a few items still owned on each.

Not tracking cheap stuff will help with that, but even things like blanches and alchemical fire can count up pretty fast.

If you didn't need a GMs initials on each, then the player could consolidate and then it would just be a quick reference to the appropriate Chronicle - which would be signed.

See my edit

Yes. I like that a lot better. It makes them more of a useful tool than an annoying formality.

With the form-fillable pdf version, we can now keep them digitally and print out the useful portion of them as needed.


Michael Brock wrote:
Even setting the XX GP value at 25 eliminates all of those purchases, but still covers most of the weapon blanches and alchemical items.

I can say that filling out the ITS helped me find a 20gp underpayment on a chronicle over a purchase of two items - one 320gp and one 100gp. Not a lot of gold, but I might not have found that if the ITS minimum had been 100+gp.

If the 25gp limit is established, I'd be inclined to put my sub 25gp items on the ITS either way, but would any GMs object to that?

The Exchange 5/5

Michael Brock wrote:
And if alchemical items and blanches and ammo is problematic, where you are going to go through a lot of them, why not plan one designated ITS just for the alchemical items, or the blanches, or the ammo, and another ITS for all of your other problems. That way, as you use up an alchemical item or blanch or ammo block or whatever, you can just go to the next line when you replenish.

I think I really like this solution, actually. Having a sheet for mundane items (twine, rope, hammer, pitons, snacks), one for alchemical items (mostly Baird Spray, at this point) and ammo, and one for major items (armor, weapons, slotted items) will probably work very well for me.

I am also incredibly glad at this point that I have been so diligent over the past six years in filling out my excel spreadsheet with every purchase I make.

I have been through a lot more wands of cure light wounds and potions of fly than I would have guessed, but the evidence is right there.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Starfinder Superscriber
Michael Brock wrote:
See my edit

...it's impossible for somebody coming to this thread to know what you're talking about if you don't also include a link to the post that you've edited.

Silver Crusade 4/5

Zandari wrote:

I think I really like this solution, actually. Having a sheet for mundane items (twine, rope, hammer, pitons, snacks), one for alchemical items (mostly Baird Spray, at this point) and ammo, and one for major items (armor, weapons, slotted items) will probably work very well for me.

I am also incredibly glad at this point that I have been so diligent over the past six years in filling out my excel spreadsheet with every purchase I make.

I have been through a lot more wands of cure light wounds and potions of fly than I would have guessed, but the evidence is right there.

Oooh, what book is Baird Spray in? I need to get some of that.

I don't even want to know how many heal wands and fly potions my level 14 barbarian has been through.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Edit in questions:

link.

Michael Brock wrote:
Edit: Which solves the problem of the GMing initials on the ITS. If the Chronicle number is recorded correctly, then there is no need for a GM to initial on the ITS as well. That signature is already on the Chronicle sheet so no need to duplicate efforts (see what happens when a new sheet is created and I am out of the country) :-) It is a self-correcting problem.

Dark Archive

Eric Clingenpeel wrote:
I don't know of any library that doesn't have a copy machine. They shouldn't be that expensive to get copies made. My local library charges I think $.25 for print outs, I'm not sure if it is the same price for copies or not. Also, if you play with others, I'm sure you could ask nicely, and they'll print extra copies that you can have on hand. Generally the people I've met that play PFS are generous, and willing to help if they can, all you need to do is ask.

I appreciate your response, Eric. It is things like this that made me say that it doesn't make PFS unplayable, just less accessible. PFS has to require jumping through some hoops to remain organized the way it is, I realize that. This was a particular instance where I thought that the powers that be might not even realize they had indeed erected a hoop that required jumping (the obtaining of a copy of the sheet, I'm sure they realized that filling it out was a hoop!) Mike Brock knows a lot better than I do what PFS needs, and it is definitely a "needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" kind of place. I have no problem with that whatsoever.

Actually, the very generous nature of PFS players in person is why I posed the question in a generalized fashion. I sincerely doubt that anyone who actually had me roll up to their table in real life would put me through the wringer for anything. Even generally jerkish people are outwardly nice to most people with visible disabilities, and nice people bend over backwards.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

rknop wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
See my edit
...it's impossible for somebody coming to this thread to know what you're talking about if you don't also include a link to the post that you've edited.

My apologies. I generally think most people read through the thread and will see where it is edited in. I thought anyone who had already posted would know my initial post was only fou ror five threads before there. For convenience, HERE you go.

5/5

I don't think these tracking sheets reduce the need to go through a player's chronicles for audits, but actually make thorough audits more taxing in some ways.

First, any audit where the GM is going to go through each line of an inventory tracker should also include validating that players are adding up XP, fame, PP, GP correctly to know how much they could spend (going through every chronicle). When they see a big amount spent on a chronicle, they then have to cross reference all the tracking sheets to see what was bought (one expensive item or many less expensive items) to make sure it's under the fame limit.

Next, as the GM goes through the inventory tracker they would need to make sure that the items were actually paid for on the referenced chronicle. Otherwise you could have tracking sheets full of stuff you never paid for.

Now I do believe that these sheets make the specific aspect of seeing which consumables are used easier for GMs. But, if they player is using separate sheets for consumables vs. items they don't plan to ever sell - which is a good practice I believe - the GM has to then look at multiple tracking sheets to verify the total amount spent in any one scenario.

So, I think the inventory tracking sheets would be best used for *only* consumables and not things like weapons or permanent magic items. Those purchases should stay on the chronicles.

I think these sheets can help during an intensive audit, but not quick checks of character wealth. I think for that you'd want to know the PC's total GP earned vs. total GP spent. Neither the chronicles nor the tracking sheets allow for this comparison to be made easily. You still have to total everything up by hand each time. For a quick audit you'd also want to know the cost of their most expensive items. These should be easily noticed by looking at the character sheet though, so you shouldn't need to reference chronicles or tracking sheets anyway beyond the most recent to know their total fame for their max purchase limit.


Zandari wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
And if alchemical items and blanches and ammo is problematic, where you are going to go through a lot of them, why not plan one designated ITS just for the alchemical items, or the blanches, or the ammo, and another ITS for all of your other problems. That way, as you use up an alchemical item or blanch or ammo block or whatever, you can just go to the next line when you replenish.

I think I really like this solution, actually. Having a sheet for mundane items (twine, rope, hammer, pitons, snacks), one for alchemical items (mostly Baird Spray, at this point) and ammo, and one for major items (armor, weapons, slotted items) will probably work very well for me.

I am also incredibly glad at this point that I have been so diligent over the past six years in filling out my excel spreadsheet with every purchase I make.

I have been through a lot more wands of cure light wounds and potions of fly than I would have guessed, but the evidence is right there.

I think I would rather just keep all the items together, alchemical or otherwise, because then you are having multiple different types of item sheets.

Well, this is for my basic, mundane items, and this one is for alchemical items, this is my wands sheet and this is my potions sheets, etc. “This is sheet 1 of 3 for only my alchemical items.” and so on. I think it’s just easier and less confusing keeping the items altogether.

But then that is just personal preference.

2/5

I would prefer a player just show me a current inventory list and give me a total value number. I could then compare that to an expected WBL guideline and instantly see if something was fishy.

- GM audit headache is reduced to practically nil
- I get an instant expectation of what to expect from the character
- the "play-up-gold" phenomenom is forever fixed via a top band WBL limit

Simple is good.


Patrick Harris @ MU wrote:
If the purpose of the inventory tracking sheet is to make audits easier, how is leaving off mundane equipment going to do anything but confuse people?

You make it up in VOLUME!

When you do a quick add up, you don't worry about every last CP. If you're 90% in the right neighborhood you're probably fine. But if you run across a level five with multiple artifacts... someone's made an order of magnitude error somewhere.


I see a potential problem with the ITS. Mark my words, this WILL happen, despite the fact that the intent is obviously to the contrary...

The column heading reads "Cost". We have defined "Cost" as Half of "Price". Someone somewhere is going to do everything at half-price.

5/5 *

Xot wrote:

I see a potential problem with the ITS. Mark my words, this WILL happen, despite the fact that the intent is obviously to the contrary...

The column heading reads "Cost". We have defined "Cost" as Half of "Price". Someone somewhere is going to do everything at half-price.

Then good thing that we will have GMs looking over it, because as soon as they see cloak of resistance +1 for 500g then they should correct him.

4/5

It seems that a spreadsheet that showed every adventure, with its gp and PP gained, running totals of both, and every expenditure is needed to make an audit easy. If the spreadsheet also showed the purchase limit by Fame that would verify that the items were purchasable. The player could also sort it to group all the unexpended items together for their current inventory. It could also have a column for weight so your inventory would also show the total.
I'm working this weekend, but I might have time to make a prototype soon.

Yeah, I'm probably going overboard. :-)

5/5

CRobledo wrote:
Then good thing that we will have GMs looking over it, because as soon as they see cloak of resistance +1 for 500g then they should correct him.

But what if the GM doesn't know that a cloak of resistance is 1,000 gp? That'll take like 30 minutes to figure out and what if they're too late, busy or harried to do it?! RAAAAGE!

Dark Archive 3/5

Michael Brock wrote:
Would it be better if it started with Season 5 forward?

If it's going to be required, how about just with brand new characters starting August 14?

The Exchange

For the online versions, put in a line that the gm can verify up to that point and the player can just go from there..

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