Anyone played a Bladebound Kensai?


Advice


Hey guys. I was wondering if anyone has experience playing a Bladebound Kensai magus, and any tips or suggestions for it? It seems kind of like a perfect way to mix two of my favorite fantasy characters from when I was younger... Naitachal the dark elf from the Bard's Tale books with his laughing black blade, and the character I took through Baldur's Gate 2, a dual katana wielding human kensai. I'd appreciate any comments on this character draft as well!

Villidran

Elf Magus (Bladebound / Kensai) AL CG
Str 14, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 18, Wis 10, Cha 8

Traits - Magical Lineage (Shocking Grasp), Reactionary
taking 18 levels of alternate favored class reward (1/6 new magus arcana)

1 - Power Attack, Weapon Focus (katana)
3- Toughness, arcana replaced
5- Improved Initiative, Empower Spell
6- arcana - Arcane Accuracy, arcana - Empowered Magic
7- Weapon Specialization (katana)
9- Intensified Spell, arcana replaced
10 - Critical Focus
11 - Improved Critical (katana)
12 - arcana - maximized magic, arcana - ghost blade
13 - Staggering Critical
15 - arcana - Quickened Magic, Extra Arcana (spell blending)(bonus feat TBD)
17 - Stunning Critical]
18 - arcana TBD
19 - (TBD)
20 - (bonus feat TBD)

Pretty basic magus stuff, using Shocking Grasp as the go-to damage spell with Spell Combat and Spellstrike. I have a few higher level TBD spots to fill, and I'm probably taking Empower Spell too early, but there's a bonus feat there I just can't seem to fill with anything else. Two things I'm curious about : one, since the Kensai gives up his normal weapon proficiencies, is it worth keeping the elven weapon familiarity trait to have a longbow to fall back on? I'm kind of thinking it's better than a +2 to concentration checks, but I'm not 100% sure.
Two, would any kind of level dipping be appropriate? My two thoughts were for Wizard with the admixture school (also gives me access to Mage Armor), and if I reworked some stats for a Cha of 11, a crossblooded Orc / Draconic sorcerer level dip to buff Shocking Grasp, and also gain access to Mage Armor. Would either of those be worth a point of BaB?

Oh, another note, I've ruled out Dervish Dance for this guy. I just don't care for the flavor.

Thank you as always advice forum!

Shadow Lodge

The wizard would be worth it so you can deliver acid shocking grasp. Boosting the power of an electricity spell will kind of screw you over when you get to the levels where evil outsiders are common. Other than that I think it looks like a solid build. The +2 concentration check just as good as the weapon familiarity, crossbows are good enough ranged weapons until you heavily rely on full attacks. Also, make sure your GM allows these to stack, because I believe they both diminish spellcasting.


ArmouredMonk13 wrote:
The wizard would be worth it so you can deliver acid shocking grasp. Boosting the power of an electricity spell will kind of screw you over when you get to the levels where evil outsiders are common. Other than that I think it looks like a solid build. The +2 concentration check just as good as the weapon familiarity, crossbows are good enough ranged weapons until you heavily rely on full attacks. Also, make sure your GM allows these to stack, because I believe they both diminish spellcasting.

ArmouredMonk13, as always, thank you for your feedback. What level would you take the wizard, if you were dipping? 1? 2? Having Mage Armor and Enlarge Person early would be very helpful, but the admixture school power wouldn't really come into play until later levels right? The bonded item is virtually worthless for first level buff spells but, whatever, might as well have COMPLETE love affair with my katana right? The weapon familiarity thing, I'm pretty sure having access to composite bows is better than +2 concentration checks. Also a longsword or a rapier if I MUST (but if I am in a situation where my katana is gone I'm having issues anyways). Is there any way to get access to the lead blades spell? Seems like a decent buff if I could find a way to access it. Probably a wand or a staff would be the way to go there once the UMD is high enough to reliably use it.

Contributor

My brother plays one in a campaign we're in. He's actually retraining out of it because taking those two archetypes really hurts your spellcasting. You have one less spell per level and can't dump arcane points to reprepare shocking grasp with Spell Recall. You also can't spellstrike with wands or scrolls, so ultimately the bladebound kensai ends up being very auto-attack focus, basically a fighter who can't wear armor with a very limited spell resource.

I second the level of Wizard; either that, or you're going to want to pick up the Magus arcana that lets you take Sorcerer/Wizard spells and add them to your Magus list. You will explode into gooey chunks without mage armor, believe me. I've watched it happen. Canny Dodge is not as good as people crack it up to be; you're never going to get more than +3 armor out of it, maybe +5 if your GM is generous with the headbands. Even if you do nothing but prepare mage armor with your wizard spells, it was still worth it in the end.

However, you should never do that because your Wizard level gives you Scribe Scroll and that's just the bee's knees.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
My brother plays one in a campaign we're in. He's actually retraining out of it because taking those two archetypes really hurts your spellcasting. You have one less spell per level and can't dump arcane points to reprepare shocking grasp with Spell Recall. You also can't spellstrike with wands or scrolls, so ultimately the bladebound kensai ends up being very auto-attack focus, basically a fighter who can't wear armor with a very limited spell resource.

Of course, with both archetypes you are no longer spending money on a weapon, and probably not on armor. Spend some of that extra cash on Pearls of Power and recall spells without using points, to keep those points for weapon buffs.


Azuroth wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
My brother plays one in a campaign we're in. He's actually retraining out of it because taking those two archetypes really hurts your spellcasting. You have one less spell per level and can't dump arcane points to reprepare shocking grasp with Spell Recall. You also can't spellstrike with wands or scrolls, so ultimately the bladebound kensai ends up being very auto-attack focus, basically a fighter who can't wear armor with a very limited spell resource.
Of course, with both archetypes you are no longer spending money on a weapon, and probably not on armor. Spend some of that extra cash on Pearls of Power and recall spells without using points, to keep those points for weapon buffs.

This was definitely my plan. Lots of first level pearls of power for lots of Intensified shocking grasps, and later 3rd level pearls of power for Intensified Empowered shcoking grasps. A ring of wizardry I could also be on my shopping list, especially if I dip one level of wizard. I don't like losing spell recall one bit, but I think it's pretty fair for what I'm getting from Kensai.

I need to work in a Wizard level and the Lunge feat somewhere in there. Any suggestions as to where?


My brother plays one and just has a mased a small fortune in lvl 1 pearls.

He's level 8 and has a +3 blade. For ~8 K worth of pearls made at 500 gp each, he could have an extra 16 lvl 1 spells a day. Imo, you gain way more than you lose in WBL, and ultimately it gives you comparable pseudo casting. Granted versatility is lost, but you still gain a boat load of spells.

Edit: Also a ring of wizardry is a trap, unless you have like +10 Int. Pearls are far superior in terms of cost, but again you lose versatility.


This is my Kensai Bladebound magus obviously not everything is core but he has been fun. Nearly untouchable when fully buffed and can certainly do some damage with perfect strike and an intensified maximized spell ;)

Liberty's Edge

Darth Grall wrote:

My brother plays one and just has a mased a small fortune in lvl 1 pearls.

He's level 8 and has a +3 blade. For ~8 K worth of pearls made at 500 gp each, he could have an extra 16 lvl 1 spells a day. Imo, you gain way more than you lose in WBL, and ultimately it gives you comparable pseudo casting. Granted versatility is lost, but you still gain a boat load of spells.

Edit: Also a ring of wizardry is a trap, unless you have like +10 Int. Pearls are far superior in terms of cost, but again you lose versatility.

Unfortunately, ring of wizardry does not double spells per day from a high casting attribute.


thorian wrote:
Darth Grall wrote:

My brother plays one and just has a mased a small fortune in lvl 1 pearls.

He's level 8 and has a +3 blade. For ~8 K worth of pearls made at 500 gp each, he could have an extra 16 lvl 1 spells a day. Imo, you gain way more than you lose in WBL, and ultimately it gives you comparable pseudo casting. Granted versatility is lost, but you still gain a boat load of spells.

Edit: Also a ring of wizardry is a trap, unless you have like +10 Int. Pearls are far superior in terms of cost, but again you lose versatility.

Unfortunately, ring of wizardry does not double spells per day from a high casting attribute.

This is more of a rules question, but if I have, say A kensai 19 / wizard 1, and a ring of wizardry 1, would it give me 8 magus spells and 8 wizard spells? That seems pretty solid. I could max my wizard list out with mage armor, enlarge person, shield, true strike, and random utility stuff like comprehend languages and whatnot. If I were to do that I could change my traits to Wayang Spellhunter (or whatever I can refluff it as) and Magical Knack (wizard) to make those buff spells last a bit longer.

So where is the best spot in the build to put a wizard level dip, and where can I take Lunge? (+6 BaB prereq)


thorian wrote:
Unfortunately, ring of wizardry does not double spells per day from a high casting attribute.

Indeed. :( Making the Ring of Wizardry a terrible buy for a magus. If you happen to find one, swell, but buying or even making one...no.


Nuclearsunburn wrote:
This was definitely my plan. Lots of first level pearls of power for lots of Intensified shocking grasps, and later 3rd level pearls of power for Intensified Empowered shocking grasps.

I'm not entirely convinced you need a 3rd level pearl for IESG. It's still a first level spell.

See the rules discussion


So I have some thoughts on your proposed build. First off, you can't take Power Attack at first level, it has a BAB +1 requirement. You'll have to wait till third level. I would probably take Arcane Strike at first level, it is very useful for getting extra damage early on.

Lunge could be taken at level 9, unless you take a wizard dip prior to that level in which case you have to wait till level 11. If you're going to wait until after level 9 for the dip, I probably just wouldn't. You'll be better off with some wands or potions for those utility spells.

I'm playing a Bladebound Kensai with a Str build at the moment, though he is just level 2. I loaded up with a couple of Potions of Mage Armor for our first mission and picked up the Windy Escape spell (10 DR as an immediate action). Those combined effects were critical to my early survival, and between my arcane pool enhancement bonuses and arcane striking I did plenty of damage with my Katana.

Shadow Lodge

Nuclearsunbur wrote:
ArmoredMonk13 wrote:
The wizard would be worth it so you can deliver acid shocking grasp. Boosting the power of an electricity spell will kind of screw you over when you get to the levels where evil outsiders are common. Other than that I think it looks like a solid build. The +2 concentration check just as good as the weapon familiarity, crossbows are good enough ranged weapons until you heavily rely on full attacks. Also, make sure your GM allows these to stack, because I believe they both diminish spellcasting.
ArmouredMonk13, as always, thank you for your feedback. What level would you take the wizard, if you were dipping? 1? 2? Having Mage Armor and Enlarge Person early would be very helpful, but the admixture school power wouldn't really come into play until later levels right? The bonded item is virtually worthless for first level buff spells but, whatever, might as well have COMPLETE love affair with my katana right? The weapon familiarity thing, I'm pretty sure having access to composite bows is better than +2 concentration checks. Also a longsword or a rapier if I MUST (but if I am in a situation where my katana is gone I'm having issues anyways). Is there any way to get access to the lead blades spell? Seems like a decent buff if I could find a way to access it. Probably a wand or a staff would be the way to go there once the UMD is high enough to reliably use it.

I'd take the wizard level at 1st personally because free masterwork katana and the fact that if you combine it with parade armor you look more like a fighter than a wizard. That said, it might be wiser to take wizard at 2nd level because then you will actually be able to use the weapon. The admixture school power will be most effective at higher levels, but when it is useful, it is really useful. As for the bonded object, the ability to cast an extra shocking grasp or enlarge person seems like a pretty good deal to me. On a side note, have you looked at Urban Barbarian at all? It might be a good dip considering you now have an extra physical stat buff that you can cast while using because of controlled rage. And you get a BAB boost and a d12 HD. As for Lead Blades, the only ways to get it are either 2 levels of metal mystery oracle or 4 levels of ranger, both aren't exactly easy dips, UMDing a wand would probably be best.


Just suggesting an alternative to Mage armor. You're not a monk, you can still wear armor, you're just not proficient with it and have to deal with arcane spell failure.

This is where the Haramaki or Silken Ceremonial robe is your friend. No ACP, no ASF.

Alternately if you do have some spare feats you could get light armor proficiency and arcane armor training then wear either a mithral chain shirt or mithral kikko armor and have no ASF or ACP.

Also something to keep in mind, RAW you can't use wizard spell slots with spell combat or spellstrike. Probably not an issue if you're using them for buffs but worth noting.


Wizard dip - not worth it. Mage armor - just buy potions of mage armor.

Or better yet take a closs blooded Sorc dip.


Spell Blending arcana?


Well, the forums took their sweet time coming back up! I definitely appreciate the replies!

@ Lord Pendragon : Do you think the Ring of Wizardry is a terrible buy even if it doubles two sets of first level arcane spells at once? If I took a wizard dip, for instance. For a non-dipping magus I can definitely see why it's terrible (especially for a kensai) and pearls of power are MUCh more cost effective.

@ Javaed : Thank you for your comments on my build! You're completely right, I'm just so used to slapping Power Attack in at first level on character sheets that I totally forgot it had a +1 BaB prereq. Good catch. I'll just move it to 3rd and Toughness to first, no big deal.I could move Intensified to 5th in place of Empowered, and stick Lunge in at 9th. I think that would be acceptable.

@ ArmouredMonk13 : Yeah, I had considered a martial dip, but it was Lore Warden fighter. Urban Barbarian is pretty cool, though. I too agree that a wizard dip is best served at level one, if I am going to do it. I'm sure I can muddle through one nonproficient level with a katana just fine.

@ Artoo : Well yeah I could use those two armors, you're right. That's not a half bad plan, if I ultimately decide against a wizard dip. I know I can't use spellstrike and spell combat with another casting class without the Broad Study arcana. Would it be worth it? To sort of be able to buff "on the fly" in those situations where I can't prebuff, while wading through mooks for instance?

@ Bigtuna : Well... I'm not totally convinced it is, either. Mage Armor is just a nice side benefit, though. The main reason I'd dip wizard is for the Evocation (Admixture school), first level power to alter shocking grasp however I need it altered. It's sacrificing a little consistency to regain some versatility.

@ KutuluKultist : Yes, spell blending arcana. Is that... a question or a suggestion? If it's both, I'm taking it later on to gain some wizard spells on my spell list. I know I want them, I just don't know WHICH ones yet.

Is there not some way to swap Scribe Scroll for a metamagic feat at wizard level 1? I thought i read somewhere that it was possible.

Since we've started talking equipment... is a robe of the archmage something I ought to shoot for pretty hard with this guy?

As always, you guys are awesome, thank you for the replies!


What I meant is that Mage Armor is a nice spell for Spell Blending, or rather that Spell Blending is an easy way to get an all-day Mage Armor. As for other Spell Blending spells, I'm particularly fond of Ghoul Touch and False Life.


So for gear I would avoid the Ring of Wizardry. You could gain just as many bonus spells per day with a string of Pearls of Power for much less cost. The only benefit the ring gives you is the ability to select a unique spell in each of the spell slots.

Scarab Sages

KutuluKultist wrote:
What I meant is that Mage Armor is a nice spell for Spell Blending, or rather that Spell Blending is an easy way to get an all-day Mage Armor. As for other Spell Blending spells, I'm particularly fond of Ghoul Touch and False Life.

There are a lot of good spells for Spell Blending. Some of my favorites are:

Touch of Fatigue
Mage Armor
Touch of Idiocy
Call the Void
Blacklight
Calcific Touch
Shocking Image
Feeblemind


If you just need a few extra spells than Mystic Past life Samsaran Trait can get to some. The scores arent optimal (Int bonus is good. Wis is meh and the con penalty hurts) but being able to poach some spells is nice AND its sort of a cool story concept. This being that reincarnated finds a black blade. Maybe the black blade is one of your past lives...


I'm currently playing a 3rd level Bladebound Kensai Magus. He has barely been keeping himself from running out of spells before the end of each day, but he has been fun to play. Pearls of Power and Bracers of Armor are going to be your most important items.

One thing I have to point out: Mage Armor is good, but if your individual combats are either very close together or very spread out then you'll be just as well off (if not better off) casting Shield. Heck, if you have enough Pearls of Power, then Shield is simply better since it stacks with Bracers of Armor.


Nuclearsunburn wrote:
@ Lord Pendragon : Do you think the Ring of Wizardry is a terrible buy even if it doubles two sets of first level arcane spells at once? If I took a wizard dip, for instance. For a non-dipping magus I can definitely see why it's terrible (especially for a kensai) and pearls of power are MUCh more cost effective.

The problem is that a 1-level dip in wizard is not going to get you many spells. That's one first level spell. Combine that with your magus spells and you're looking at six spells at 20th-level. The Ring of Wizardry would double that, so it's worth exactly 6 spell slots.

A Ring of Wizardry I costs 20,000g.
Six Pearls of Power I cost 6,000g.

Now the Ring definitely has advantages over the Pearls. You don't have to cast the same spells twice, and all twelve of your spell slots are available from the start of the day, not requiring any time either in or out of combat to access them partway through the day.

But are those advantages worth an additional 14,000g? I don't think so. Especially for a magus who is going to want to cast the same 1st-level spell repeatedly throughout the day, either Shocking Grasp or Frostbite.

Scarab Sages

Matrix Dragon wrote:
One thing I have to point out: Mage Armor is good, but if your individual combats are either very close together or very spread out then you'll be just as well off (if not better off) casting Shield. Heck, if you have enough Pearls of Power, then Shield is simply better since it stacks with Bracers of Armor.

I am consistently running into GM's ruling that all minute/level spells expire before the next encounter. Even extended Shield with a 14 minute duration. I do not have this issue with Mage Armor.

Given that retraining is now officially in for PFS, when I do pick up +5 Bracers of Armor I'll retrain my Arcana for a different spell. As is, even at 7th level bracers are not on my shopping list. Too many cheaper ways to get the next +1 to AC.


Artanthos wrote:


I am consistently running into GM's ruling that all minute/level spells expire before the next encounter. Even extended Shield with a 14 minute duration. I do not have this issue with Mage Armor.

Given that retraining is now officially in for PFS, when I do pick up +5 Bracers of Armor I'll retrain my Arcana for a different spell. As is, even at 7th level bracers are not on my shopping list. Too many cheaper ways to get the next +1 to AC.

Well, sure if the encounters are separated by extended periods of time. If encounters are one after another I would call BS, personally. That's a pretty blatant rules violation on the part of your GMs.

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