Trying to determine a charge vs disarm ruling in Pathfinder


Advice


The situation:

Level 1 Human Fighter
Combat Expertise
Improved Disarm
Improved Unarmed Strike

The unarmed Fighter declares he is readying an action and will attempt to disarm his opponent if he charges.

The opponent charges. According to the rules of Readying, his action is interrupted so the Fighter can attempt his disarm.

Improved Unarmed Strike means the fighter is considered armed, preventing the -4 penalty for disarming without a weapon. Improved Disarm prevents the opponent from getting an attack of opportunity. Being unarmed allows the Fighter to hold the weapon taken from the opponent, martial and simple weapon proficiency likely makes it easy wield whatever it is.

Readying rules state that if the opponent is still capable, he continues his action. Since he's absolutely capable of attacking unarmed, but the attack will not be as originally intended, does he:

a) Lose his attack against the Fighter?
b) Have to attack unarmed, provoking an attack of opportunity from his own weapon?
c) Have the option to decide the best course of action?

Liberty's Edge

I may be wrong, but just because you have the Improved Unarmed Strike feat that doesn't mean you don't still get the -4 penalty for disarming without a weapon.

In terms of your question, I would allow the fighter to finish the charge using whatever weapon he can, including an unarmed strike if necessary, or even turn it into a Bullrush.

Grand Lodge

I'd let the charging (and now disarmed) opponent abort the attack, but the charge still consumes his full round and imposes the -2 ac penalty.


pretty sure you cant abort the attack. Charge is a fullround action. The fact that he lost his weapon 95% of the way through it is irrelivant.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

If the disarmed opponent has the Quick Draw feat, they can draw another weapon as a free action before attacking.

Liberty's Edge

Dragonchess Player wrote:
If the disarmed opponent has the Quick Draw feat, they can draw another weapon as a free action before attacking.

It may not be in the spirit of the rule, but if the charging character moved a distance equal to his speed or less (and had a BAB of +1 or more), he could draw a weapon even without the Quick Draw feat.

PRD wrote:
Movement During a Charge: You must move before your attack, not after. You must move at least 10 feet (2 squares) and may move up to double your speed directly toward the designated opponent. If you move a distance equal to your speed or less, you can also draw a weapon during a charge attack if your base attack bonus is at least +1.

Dark Archive

I'd agree with DigitalMage: if the charger has covered less than his speed, he should be able to draw another weapon. Also, and this is my opinion as a DM but not defined by RAW, if the unarmed fighter FAILS his disarm, I would give the charger the option of changing the target of the charge to the unarmed fighter, assuming that he had already moved at least 10 feet.

Clarification: I would allow this change in a home campaign because I think it is flavorful and it "makes sense", I would not allow it in a PFS game, because it is not RAW.


Argus The Slayer wrote:

I'd agree with DigitalMage: if the charger has covered less than his speed, he should be able to draw another weapon. Also, and this is my opinion as a DM but not defined by RAW, if the unarmed fighter FAILS his disarm, I would give the charger the option of changing the target of the charge to the unarmed fighter, assuming that he had already moved at least 10 feet.

Clarification: I would allow this change in a home campaign because I think it is flavorful and it "makes sense", I would not allow it in a PFS game, because it is not RAW.

I would not allow an auto-draw, unless the disarming occured 10 or more feet from the original target of the charge (say by an AoO)....from the original post, it sounds like all the movement was done before the disarm occurred - therefore unless they stated they were drawing a 2nd weapon BEFORE the interrupt, once they arrive (and are disarmed) they would have to move an ADDITIONAL 10 or more feet to allow a free draw....the Fast Draw feat of course would be allowed.

But, any other available attack legal during a charge I would allow...such as an unarmed attack

Sczarni

Skaz wrote:

The situation:

Level 1 Human Fighter
Combat Expertise
Improved Disarm
Improved Unarmed Strike

The unarmed Fighter declares he is readying an action and will attempt to disarm his opponent if he charges.

The opponent charges. According to the rules of Readying, his action is interrupted so the Fighter can attempt his disarm.

Improved Unarmed Strike means the fighter is considered armed, preventing the -4 penalty for disarming without a weapon. Improved Disarm prevents the opponent from getting an attack of opportunity. Being unarmed allows the Fighter to hold the weapon taken from the opponent, martial and simple weapon proficiency likely makes it easy wield whatever it is.

Readying rules state that if the opponent is still capable, he continues his action. Since he's absolutely capable of attacking unarmed, but the attack will not be as originally intended, does he:

a) Lose his attack against the Fighter?
b) Have to attack unarmed, provoking an attack of opportunity from his own weapon?
c) Have the option to decide the best course of action?

A) He would not lose his attack with his Charge. If disarmed however, he wouldn't be using that weapon anymore obviously. Depending on if he continued with the attack or CM, he would incur an AoO from the Fighter since he would be unarmed, unless he had IUS or something.

B) Yes.
C) Yes. "Attacking on a Charge: After moving, you may make a single melee attack. You get a +2 bonus on the attack roll and take a –2 penalty to your AC until the start of your next turn."

"Charging is a special full-round action..."

"If you move a distance equal to your speed or less, you can also draw a weapon during a charge attack if your base attack bonus is at least +1."

"If you are able to take only a standard action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed) and you cannot draw a weapon unless you possess the Quick Draw feat. You can't use this option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action on your turn."

Special Full Round. :)

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