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And unfortunately, the solution is not "more cowbell".
One of my "friends" has been a loyal player at our PFS night. However, after a spat this past weekend I've drawn a line in the sand. I won't go into what happened, but I don't want drama to occur. Because I feel like him showing up and playing would prove he's simply using me for personal gain, I'm curious as to if I can prevent a player from playing, as vindictive as it might seem. I want to make a point, and the only way to do so, sadly, is at the game night.
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I understand that you are upset with this person, but from the stance of the Pathfinder Society, wherein the goal is to grow the society at any reasonable opportunity, it would be outside of the spirit of Pathfinder Society to prevent a player from playing for personal reasons. You have the right to not sit at that player's table, but if that player hasn't broken any of the rules of Pathfinder Society you will have no grounds by which to ban said player.
And you may find that if this person is actively trying to get under your skin, simply ignoring his antics may be the best way to defeat him.
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...I'm curious as to if I can prevent a player from playing ...?
At your table? Yes. The people that play at your table is a decision that is entirely up to you. If you are running a public event then it is up to you and the coordinator (as a team - hopefully) to determine who will be allowed to sit at your table. But as a GM you ultimately always have the power to decide who you will and will not volunteer to run a game for.
Before it comes to that, you should do your best to work it out. Communicating privately with this player may be all that is necessary to turn a bad situation into a good one.
Hope it works out for the best either way. Good luck.
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The problem is that I attempted to defuse the situation yesterday afternoon, and he ignored me and pushed it away, acting as if he did nothing wrong. It's common with him to act like this. The olive branch, so to speak, was put out and he ignored it. As I do not like the idea of letting someone step all over me like this, my options to prove my point were limited to, literally, preventing him from playing at the table. And since I'm the GM...
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The problem is that I attempted to defuse the situation yesterday afternoon, and he ignored me and pushed it away, acting as if he did nothing wrong. It's common with him to act like this. The olive branch, so to speak, was put out and he ignored it. As I do not like the idea of letting someone step all over me like this, my options to prove my point were limited to, literally, preventing him from playing at the table. And since I'm the GM...
If you're the GM, and you refuse to run for this guy, the story is pretty short. You say no, he goes away, the end.
Assuming you're the coordinator. If you're not, the coordinator may remove you, and replace you with a GM who won't ban individual people for personal reasons. But if you can't run a table with this guy playing, there's not much else you can do.
Of course, if you are the coordinator, there could be a PR-type issue; the store might not appreciate having individuals banned by GMs, or people might stop coming to the game day because they don't approve. But if you can't run a table with this guy playing ... there's still not much else you can do.
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I am both the coordinator and GM. And I've already spoken to one of the store employees who plays with us, and he's agreed with my decision. I've also informed him that if it begins to turn into an issue with the guy throwing a fit, I'l leave immediately to prevent it from getting out of hand. Being the only GM kind of helps me, I suppose. But as I have said numerous times, I hate pulling the GM card.
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I am both the coordinator and GM. And I've already spoken to one of the store employees who plays with us, and he's agreed with my decision. I've also informed him that if it begins to turn into an issue with the guy throwing a fit, I'l leave immediately to prevent it from getting out of hand. Being the only GM kind of helps me, I suppose. But as I have said numerous times, I hate pulling the GM card.
Listen, it's impossible for us to judge who is "right" here. Even if you told us your side of the issue (... please don't), it would still just be your side; we'd have to make a necessarily biased judgement. And even if we knew the whole situation, assuming neither of you is mad at the other for, like, maiming small furry creatures for fun, you're going to get different responses about who should apologize to whom.
So let's not worry about that. Instead, focus on this: You won't sit at the table with this guy, and that's your right. If you were a player, I would say, "Okay, leave." But you aren't--you're the GM. He's the player. If you leave, 3-5 other people also get denied their game. If you stay and he leaves, the other 3-5 people, who presumably aren't involved, get their game. Therefore, it only makes sense for him to leave, because regardless of which of you is actually "right" in whatever conflict you're having, minimization of bystander involvement would be the ideal thing to shoot for here.
Since you're the GM and the coordinator and the store is backing you on this, there's not a whole lot left to talk about. Do what you gotta do. If you feel vaguely bad about it, that's probably a good thing, but I wouldn't lose a lot of sleep over it if I were you.
Venture-Agent, Virginia—Hampton Roads
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Unless the player is banned outright by Paizo/PFS leadership he can play PFS where he wishes especially at public events.
It is important to understand that in a public game as a GM and a coordinator you are in someways the face of the store and for Paizo. Not anything official of coarse but each person in these roles understands that to have successful events then you need to maintain a fun and friendly atmosphere.
If your friend can't do this then I suggest outside of a game day you need to have the chat that he shouldn't play in that type of venue as his behavior dictates he shouldn't.
In the end it is up to your friend to improve and your choice to GM for him.
One way or the other you got to "rip the band aid off" and bear a tad bit of pain.
I just ran a few tables and have run into this. It isn't a much of a choice but there you have it.
I would ask him not to come back but tell him at a different time before a gameday.
I hope it works out in the end.
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I am both the coordinator and GM. And I've already spoken to one of the store employees who plays with us, and he's agreed with my decision. I've also informed him that if it begins to turn into an issue with the guy throwing a fit, I'l leave immediately to prevent it from getting out of hand. Being the only GM kind of helps me, I suppose. But as I have said numerous times, I hate pulling the GM card.
Please inform him there is no point in turning up in advance. Don't drop it on everyone when he turns up to play.
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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Unless the player is banned outright by Paizo/PFS leadership he can play PFS where he wishes especially at public events.
I beg to differ.
As the coordinator of a public space (my store) I reserve the right to ban anyone I see fit from the games I have at my store, and have been told by PFS management that I do, indeed, have this right.
I catch someone stealing from my store I'm going to ban them. Mike Brock doesn't have to be told.
I catch someone being abusive to my staff for whatever reason, I'm going to ban them. Mike Brock does not have to be told.
I can think of myriad reasons for this to happen. Thankfully, I have yet to actually have any of them happen. But, if it comes to this within my store, I can un-invite whomever I choose. They can go somewhere else and play PFS.
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Venture-Agent, Virginia—Hampton Roads
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Drogon,
You are 100% correct but you are the store owner. The original poster isn't an owner or the venue so his rights of what he can do isn't as black and white. I was mainly referring from the player's perspective.
Coordinator's for the most part can't just can't ban people from stores it is possible but dicey.
When I first started running events my first two store I built up an awesome relationship with the owner and the general manager. Months of trust and activity went into that.
When we had our very first problem child I talked to the general manager and informed him that I might have to ban a player and wanted to run it past them first. (Problem was behavior at the table and dealing with other people)
The store general manager ask me one question. "Are the other players being verbally abused?" When I said yes the owner booted the person themselves.
I guess I tried to be respectful to the store that allowed me to host events at their location without you guys there wouldn't be such a strong PFS presence.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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Of course, Darius. Once again (as is often the case with situations like this) reasonable positions need to be taken and respected.
I just don't want it thought that a player's right to play wherever he wants is insurmountable except via a writ passed down from PFS Leadership. That was the only reason for my above response.
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He already said the store employees are ok with their decision. We call it 'public play', but it's in essence happening on someone else property. I know for a fact that if a player was causing trouble consistently, both the manager and the store owner would be behind working it out, and, if that didn't work, not allowing the person to come and game.
And THEIR say is final. Because they wouldn't want to risk pushing away other paying customers.
I agree with the earlier sentiment: tell him ahead of time--don't drop it on all the players/store at the time of the event.
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Let me explain the scenario without going into the details of the spat.
This past weekend the player in question and I had an argument and fight. At the end of it, we walked away pissed. Friday I sent out an e-mail to two of my usual players, informing them this person was not going to be playing with us. They understood and were surprised considering how "close" we appeared to be. Saturday rolled around (this happened on Friday) and I tried to patch things up. He pretty much told me to piss off, and so my response was be further set in my decision. I re-iterated my position to the two players and involved a third player, and employee of the store, in my intentions. He wanted me to tell the person beforehand not to show up because he didn't want drama, but I explained that the reason I am doing it this way is that one cannot tell someone else to piss off and expect to be welcome when they take the time to set things up. After a few moments of talking, I told him that if this person attempted to turn it into a fight, I would walk out. And since they have no one else to DM, anything that occurred after that would be on that player alone. He agreed, and this was the decision.
My question was completely about the legality of preventing someone from playing, not if it's right or wrong. I didn't ask for people to tell me I'd feel bad, because quite frankly after this weekend I'd kick the guy off a cliff and not lose a moment of sleep over it.
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the reason I am doing it this way is that one cannot tell someone else to piss off and expect to be welcome when they take the time to set things up.
This is, point blank, not a reason.
He said something I don't like----> Some logic here? ------> I let him shower, get dressed, cancel his plans for the weekend and look forward to a game only to crush his hopes at the last minute. That middle part makes ZERO sense.
I can see no motive, except for deliberately wanting to twist the knife, for not telling him in advance. Listen to the store owner. They don't want the drama in the store. All you'll do is increase the risk of escalating the conflict and getting PFS chucked out of the store when the person goes off on you. You're not teaching him a lesson you're giving him a legitimate gripe.
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Well, maybe I'll add one thing...
one cannot tell someone else to piss off and expect to be welcome when they take the time to set things up.
If he turns up, then obviously that is exactly what he does think. Maybe he sees PFS as something that you do 'professionally' and that you will therefore keep a professional distance between your personal and professional sides - who knows. His actions will seem perfectly reasonable to him.
Your current course is just heading straight towards a massive fight that will impact several bystanders.
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If there is an insurmountable issue between the coordinator and GM of a game day and a player, the coordinator and GM is more than allowed to disinvite that player from the game day. You can invite him to start his own game day or attend a different game day than the one you are coordinating.
However, once the decision is made, the player should be informed immediately.
Waiting until the game day, so that you can disinvite him publicly, is both spiteful and vindictive and inappropriate.
My suggestion, regardless your personal feelings on the matter, tell him in advance.
Doing it publicly makes you look like a jerk, not him.
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Let me explain the scenario without going into the details of the spat.
This past weekend the player in question and I had an argument and fight. At the end of it, we walked away pissed. Friday I sent out an e-mail to two of my usual players, informing them this person was not going to be playing with us. They understood and were surprised considering how "close" we appeared to be. Saturday rolled around (this happened on Friday) and I tried to patch things up. He pretty much told me to piss off, and so my response was be further set in my decision. I re-iterated my position to the two players and involved a third player, and employee of the store, in my intentions. He wanted me to tell the person beforehand not to show up because he didn't want drama, but I explained that the reason I am doing it this way is that one cannot tell someone else to piss off and expect to be welcome when they take the time to set things up. After a few moments of talking, I told him that if this person attempted to turn it into a fight, I would walk out. And since they have no one else to DM, anything that occurred after that would be on that player alone. He agreed, and this was the decision.
My question was completely about the legality of preventing someone from playing, not if it's right or wrong. I didn't ask for people to tell me I'd feel bad, because quite frankly after this weekend I'd kick the guy off a cliff and not lose a moment of sleep over it.
So you're asking for rules-legal justification to be petty? How do you think this is in any way following the spirit of the Organized Play Campaign?
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My (rather lengthy) response was lost, so I'll be brief this time.
You are within your rights to ban the player if he is abusive or troublesome. But please ask yourself the following about your chosen method: who does this serve? Is this the best way to accomplish my goal?
If your goal is to punish the individual, then your course of action could certainly achieve that end.
If your goal is to preserve a fun and inviting atmosphere for everyone else involved, I would suggest asking them to sit out in advance. Why take the chance of ruining everyone else's fun with a nasty scene?
I for one, would lose a tremendous amount of respect for you if I witnessed you throwing this player out in the manner you've suggested. I might not return as a player.
I really enjoy playing Pathfinder, and the only way I make it to the tables is via PFS. I would be very upset if my hobby was distrupted by a player/GM spat in such a way, and I ask you to consider this before deciding what course you will take.
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Storytime!
A new player recently walked into a game store looking to play a PFS game. He was familiar with Pathfinder, and was really excited to play. He had spent all week reading the guide and creating a character, told his wife how excited he was to play, and she was understanding enough to watch the kids that night so he could go to the game store.
When our new player (let's call him Alan) walked in, he saw several other players there already, and someone (let's call him Gary) who was obviously going to be GMing that night. Alan introduced himself to Gary, who seemed like a nice enough fella. At this point Alan was getting super stoked to play. Even the other players all seemed cool!
Just before the game got underway, however, another guy (let's call him Phil) walked in. Phil indicated to Gary that he was interested in playing this week, and said something about not caring about what happened last week. Gary and Phil proceeded to exchange words, which culminates in Gary saying, "Fine! I'm leaving. Phil, you have ruined the game for all these other players, because I'm not going to GM!"
Question 1: who do you think the jerk is, from Alan's point of view?
Question 2: if Phil says, "it's okay, guys, I'll GM this week since Gary stormed out," then who do you think the hero is, from Alan's point of view?
Alan doesn't give a honey badger who is wrong and who is right in the argument between Phil and Gary. All he knows is that he was excited for a game, and Gary left him high and dry.
Don't be Gary. Avoid unnecessary public drama and email the other guy and explain that he is not welcome to attend the next game.
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I beg to differ.
As the coordinator of a public space (my store) I reserve the right to ban anyone I see fit from the games I have at my store, and have been told by PFS management that I do, indeed, have this right.
I catch someone stealing from my store I'm going to ban them. Mike Brock doesn't have to be told.
I catch someone being abusive to my staff for whatever reason, I'm going to ban them. Mike Brock does not have to be told.
I can think of myriad reasons for this to happen. Thankfully, I have yet to actually have any of them happen. But, if it comes to this within my store, I can un-invite whomever I choose. They can go somewhere else and play PFS.
On a somewhat related story:
The dude who does my tattoos had to hang up a giant sign in his store that reads "We reserve the right to refuse service to any person, at any time, for any reason."
Why did he have to hang that up? Cause cause douche was making a ruckuss in his store once, got kicked out, and came back later and successfully sued the parlor owner for refusing him service. How would that make a store owner feel? Sheesh.
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So....you sent a message and didn't get a reply? Did he not show up at the game like you told him?
He has blocked me via IM communication, which means I cannot IM him without creating a new account and possibly banning all my accounts, since creating a new account to circumvent a block is against the Terms of Service. Each e-mail I have sent has had "Mailer Demon" returns, meaning he has blocked me via those communications as well. Without a phone and without being able to walk to his house to let him know, I am left with no alternatives to this.
My intent, as had been from the start and I'm realizing I didn't put this in the OP, was to pull him aside before the game begins and tell him what was going on. I did not intend to make a scene nor make it public, but considering he is one of the core members of the group I wanted two of the other core members as well as a store employee and another core member to be aware of my intentions so it wouldn't come as a shock.
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Agreed, Steven.
In fact, you could ask your VO to send him an email (or whatever), since you obviously have the person's email. You could also ask the store owner to do the same (though this might be something of an imposition to the store owner, he may see it as a way to prevent conflict in his store).
From what you have told us, you have already done quite a bit. To protect the Game Day, the store, and your reputation, it might be worth going this extra mile.
I can honestly say that I am glad that I do not have to deal with this situation.