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Anyone can limit if they set arbitrary restrictions...And anyone can meet any DPR if they don't accept any limits.
Like I said -- you want higher stats? Fine, take them, and I'll rebuild the archer.
You want haste to count -- use it, and I'll give it to the archer, too.
And you still won't make 75% of his DPR without using racial traits, and probably not with them, either. And if we're shooting at a target at some distance, you'll fail miserably.Face it, a slinger will never be 75% as good as an archer under the RAW, all other things being equal.
Which is your new arbitrary standard, now moving from 56%....
I am accepting the limits of the actual game. You are making up additional limits...just because.
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Because then ciretose will still use halfling traits for his human, chain-bind efreeti for infinite wishes, and probably a half-dozen other flagrant violations in order to match 75% of the archer's damage output.
It took me two feats to get an extra +1 to attack and you are comparing that to chain binding...
Face it, the sling does more than you thought it would and that throws off your argument.
I have to admit I'm really disappointed. I know ciretose likes making characters. I was hoping there was something I was missing that he'd show me, that would make me realize that the sling is a lot better than I thought it was. I was hoping to be able to thank him for showing it to me. But sadly, that "thing" turned out to be "better stats and haste," which of course can also apply to archers, meaning that the sling, in comparison, is still just as bad as I thought.
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I have to admit I'm really disappointed. I know ciretose likes making characters. I was hoping there was something I was missing that he'd show me, that would make me realize that the sling is a lot better than I thought it was. I was hoping to be able to thank him for showing it to me. But sadly, that "thing" turned out to be "better stats and haste," which of course can also apply to archers, meaning that the sling, in comparison, is still just as bad as I thought.
Or I hit the number you defined as viable and you are disappointed...
Face it, the sling does more than you thought it would and that throws off your argument.
No -- higher stat buy and limited haste are doing it, not the sling. Like I said, I'll be very happy to rebuild the archer with a 20-point buy and haste, and we can look again if you match 75% of his DPR, without cheating this time.
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Face it, the sling does more than you thought it would and that throws off your argument.No -- higher stat buy and limited haste are doing it, not the sling. Like I said, I'll be very happy to rebuild the archer with a 20-point buy and haste, and we can look again if you match 75% of his DPR, without cheating this time.
20 point buy and an item under WBL.
Because you made up arbitrary rules I didn't agree to doesn't make it cheating.
Or I hit the number you defined as viable and you are disappointed...
Yeah, my Commoner does 100 points of damage a round with his fist. Because I gave him a +100 fist. Yeah, that's a good way to meet any goalpost.
Like I said, I'll be very happy to rebuild the archer with a 20-point buy and haste, and we can look again if you match 75% of his DPR.
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Or I hit the number you defined as viable and you are disappointed...Yeah, my Commoner does 100 points of damage a round with his fist. Because I gave him a +100 fist. Yeah, that's a good way to meet any goalpost.
Is there a +100 fist item in book? I didn't see it.
Boots of Speed is a core rulebook item.
20 Point buy, under WBL, 10 times a day.
The Racial Heritage is 2 feats for +1 to attack. Reckless aim and improved crit are probably better actually...
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Like I said, I'll be very happy to rebuild the archer with a 20-point buy and haste, and we can look again if you match 75% of his DPR.
"So the slinger should be able to deal 75% of the archer's damage, or 56% of a same-CR monster's hp, in 1 round. And the two should be more or less equal outside of that."
"So the slinger should be able to deal 75% of the archer's damage, or 56% of a same-CR monster's hp, in 1 round. And the two should be more or less equal outside of that."
And they're not equal outside of that, so you've demonstrated nothing.
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The slinger's dpr minus haste is 60.45
Archer John's dpr is 104 with a similar stat spread and items as ciretose slinger.
That is basically it. If you make a fighter with 1 skill point per level, hilariously bad saves, and take a feat where you pretend to be a halfling, you can 60% as good as a fighter if you are both within 30 feet.
EDIT: This is 100% only for halflings though, other races do not come even close to approaching a halfling slinger, and must take racial heritage.
Slinger John has a 24 Dex and 18 Str (I'm actually trying to figure out how you did that).
If you want to plug in the same numbers to the slinger, I don't need halfling slinger and can save two feats and make the sling a +2 with Flaming or some other effect...
Racial Heritage is two feats for a +1 attack. I'm probably better off taking the Human ability that gives me a bonus +2 as that only costs one feat.
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When you make a bargain with set terms, it's implicit that you accepted the said terms. If you then turn around and ignore them, that's considered an implied breach of contract.
I said 20 PB, two traits set the DPR goal. Nicos and I did this earlier in the thread.
You tried to add other conditions arbitrarily. I tried to get you to actually set a number.
You wouldn't. So I took 56% and ran with it, since that is what I asked for and got from other people.
CWheezy actually looked at the build and fixed an error I made. That was helpful.
If there is a rule I broke, let me know. If racial heritage bugs you, I can lose it and have a feat extra by taking the Human ability that gives me two +2 to ability scores for a feat.
I can use the archers stats and get probably better numbers than I did. I can use reckless aim, same as the archer.
The only thing I can't get is manyshot.
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Fact is I used a 20 pb with two traits (less actually) and wbl, as I stated I would.I do not know what kirth and you agree, but 20 pb, two trais and standard WBl is what shoudl be used (it is pFS and is compatibly with DPR olympics)
Either way, why haste is in the equation?
Boots of speed. And I was transparent about it. 10 rounds a day is enough for 2.5 uses per battle in a normal 4 combat day.
Just lock the thread, Jessica. it's going nowhere anyway, and it's pretty much finger pointing at this stage.
==Aelryinth
Agreed.