|
This is the start of the 6th year of Pathfinder Society Organized Play. You have needed a physical copy or a watermarked pdf/printout for any non-core assumption material.
Paizo has sold a lot of books "despite" this "mind-boggling" ruling. Surpringly, a lot of people prefer books, even if they have to bring them to the game they want to play. Don't want to carry the books? You have several simple options:
1) Buy the pdf and bring either a tablet, smartphone, or the printed pages your character requires.
2) Build characters only from books you want to carry. If that answer is no books, then build a CRB only character. They're still pretty cool, I promise.
Yes, this is the 6th year. Do you realize how many more books there are now vs 6 years ago?!? I carry all the hardcover rules book with me since that is pretty much all I use. I bring the regional trait book along as well since I use those traits as well on a lot of my characters. I DO use stuff from other sources (like say from APs I have run in home games) but unless I am running said AP, I don't carry them with me. For instance, I have blood money on one of my character. I am not lugging around a 5 lb book for one spell. So basically, if it's an issue, no sweat, I don't use said spell. And yes I bought the book. Why? Because I like having my local store open. So...because my option was to support my local store staying open so we have a place to play, my option is spend MORE money to get a PDF, break my back to carry everything or not use stuff I spent money on? Like I said, for me, not a big deal mostly as the stuff I use outside of the hardback rulebooks is pretty minimal. But I can see how some people would get a bit upset that they have to lug around 100lb of stuff just because they are supporting their local stores. So, yeah it's been 6 years...maybe we should have another look at this for those of us who buy physical books.
|
|
For instance, I have blood money on one of my character. I am not lugging around a 5 lb book for one spell. So basically, if it's an issue, no sweat, I don't use said spell. And yes I bought the book.
It should always be an issue. Just because a rule hasn't been strongly enforced, doesn't mean you aren't in the wrong every single time you show up at a table with a character built with features from sources you can't provide. If you don't like that, build a character that doesn't utilize a single feature from a single 5-lb book. Incidentally, only the the Special Edition RotRL book is actually 5 lbs or more (CRB is 4.4 lbs).
Why? Because I like having my local store open. So...because my option was to support my local store staying open so we have a place to play, my option is spend MORE money to get a PDF, break my back to carry everything or not use stuff I spent money on? Like I said, for me, not a big deal mostly as the stuff I use outside of the hardback rulebooks is pretty minimal. But I can see how some people would get a bit upset that they have to lug around 100lb of stuff just because they are supporting their local stores. So, yeah it's been 6 years...maybe we should have another look at this for those of us who buy physical books.
There are countless ways to support your FLGS, buying books is just one of them.
And no one has said people HAVE to carry around 100 lbs of books (which is really poor hyperbole anyway). If you don't want buy the pdf FOR WHATEVER REASON, don't. If you don't want to carry your books to play PDF, don't. At that point you can either A) build your character w/o those features, B) play at home instead of traveling somewhere, or C) find a different game that doesn't require you to show some very minimal proof of purchase.
|
|
In order to use these additional resources for your character, you must bring a physical copy of the book with you or the printed-out appropriate pages detailing cost (if any) and explanation for each feat, item, spell, prestige class, etc. that you use from the materials listed below. (If you’re bringing a print-out of the pages, they must be from the actual Paizo PDF and not in a blank word processing document).
Emphasis mine. And you're technically right, version 1.1 didn't have this language because additional resources didn't exist yet.
|
Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
|
Re: supporting your local game store.
I actually wouldn't mind some way to help support my local game store:
I buy all my books PDF, because it's easier for me to use them that way.
I use paper minis, and I buy those PDFs, so that if I need 20 orcs to attack the party I can just print them, I don't need to buy 3 sets of pawns. (and if I want baby orcs, I can just print them smaller, etc.)
I have bought all the battle mats I am going to buy, and when I do need more, I print out grid paper and laminate it.
About the only thing I ever buy is dice, and that's a once a decade thing.
I can't use decks in crit decks PFS, so no buying those.
What I would like is a way to buy the pdfs through my store.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Whew. I had no idea this was going to blow up like this. I appreciate the thorough response, Mike. I'm really, really divided on how I feel about this issue, both as a player and a retailer.
This thread emerged because my store's weekly Pathfinder Society game recently expanded from four tables on one night of the week to three to four tables each on two nights of the week. We expanded to more nights rather than more tables per night because we only have four rooms upstairs, and though our downstairs gaming area is big enough, we felt our downstairs programming (board game night, a weekly Magic tournament, and Netrunner league; all reasonably loud) would simultaneously disrupt roleplayers and be disrupted by them. Unfortunately (first world problems), we're now staring down having to add a third weekly Pathfinder Society night soon. It's a nice problem to have, except that our Pathfinder sales aren't justifying three, or really even two nights. They're not bad at all, especially for an RPG, but they're 4% of our Magic sales and a third weekly PFS night would mean it has comparable calendar time to Magic. So, I'm left trying to figure out how to support the needs of our Pathfinder community without overextending for a game that isn't actually keeping the store in business.
Unfortunately, the current policy of having to 1) bring a pile of books to the store every week, 2) buy a bunch of PDFs (even if you own the books already), or 3) build simpler characters is really fighting the needs of both our store and our PFS community, even though it seems designed to support both. The policy encourages PDF purchases by a wide margin, which means the more the store pushes PFS and the better we enforce the need to own sourcebooks, the more likely we are to actually cut ourselves out of the supply chain. I firmly believe that a rising tide lifts all boats, but if you follow the current sourcebook policy to its logical conclusion, I see more than a few drowning sailors. If stores aren't selling books, they'll stop carrying them, and if they're not selling Pathfinder, they'll stop running PFS. I know PDFs are more convenient, but until Paizo gives stores the ability to sell them, how are stores supposed to keep PFS justifiably profitable?
I realize PFS is the strongest it's ever been and is in no danger of imploding, but I assure you that's in large part due to the prevalent don't-ask-don't-tell policy of most GMs with regard to sourcebook ownership. I've played a few places other than my own store and I've never had a GM ask me to show them a sourcebook. I have to assume that's pretty common, regardless of the campaign's actual rules.
I also realize that consumers have the option of playing PFS from the comfort of their own home, or playing non-PFS Pathfinder (or other games, for that matter), but I'm sure you realize how much of the PFS heavy-lifting is done by stores and how hard we work to make sure PFS is available to people all over the world. It does seem bad for the campaign to disincentivize stores to keep at it.
This is all compounded, of course, by the FAQ entry that states "one need not prove ownership of said material," because that leaves me disempowered to even make sure people are buying PDFs. I know people are breaking the law by photocopying each others' watermarked print-outs or sending each other PDFs, but if customers A, B, C, and D each come with identically watermarked print-outs, I don't appear to be empowered to turn them down per the rules of the campaign.
My approach to business is very definitely that if I do right by my customers, they'll do right by me, and so I don't sweat the few people who will take advantage of our policies and try to squeeze value out of every transaction (social, monetary, or otherwise), but on some level our events have to drive sales or else we'll close our doors and that doesn't do anybody any good. And I hate directly monetizing events if I can avoid it, because it narrows the accessibility of those events, which I promise is bad for everyone involved.
|
|
Re: supporting your local game store.
I actually wouldn't mind some way to help support my local game store:
I buy all my books PDF, because it's easier for me to use them that way.
I use paper minis, and I buy those PDFs, so that if I need 20 orcs to attack the party I can just print them, I don't need to buy 3 sets of pawns. (and if I want baby orcs, I can just print them smaller, etc.)
I have bought all the battle mats I am going to buy, and when I do need more, I print out grid paper and laminate it.About the only thing I ever buy is dice, and that's a once a decade thing.
I can't use decks in crit decks PFS, so no buying those.
What I would like is a way to buy the pdfs through my store.
This is a great post. It touches on what's happening in our world today. Five years ago when Paizo decided to stick with 3.5 and publish it's own CRB, portable pdf readers were rare and cumbersome. Today, they're much more capable and ubiquitous. Both our FLGS and Paizo have to adapt to this.
I get it. We want to play this game. We want our ability to play this game to be as barrier free as possible. But we also have to remember that we need to support both our FLGS and Paizo.
The unfortunate truth we have to deal with is that a photocopy of a book's page can come from anywhere and from anyone's book. In order for this game to survive we need people to purchase their own copies of the products they use. For PFS, this means when you go some where to play, you need to be able to prove that you or your family are paying customers. If you don't want to have that burden of proof, play something that doesn't require it.
|
|
Look at all the money spent on PFS by paizo. They have full time staff running this for us , I have been given freebies at Cons(I assume by paizo), and the scenarios that are made every two weeks or so.
Then look at the stores that host these. They do similar things.
You could atleast support the game and buy stuff too. When I play at a store I make a point to buy something, ANYTHING. Dice, figs, a book, or whatever. It is just proper courtesy to them letting us their store.
If you are worried about carrying too many books. Then play with friends and have them carry them too. So your table has the needed items for the game.
I find it abosultely idiotic that people complain about having to buy for the books on a website owned and provided by the people who make the books. This website is not free. WHen I say obnoxious things and liz or whoever has to delete them. That is them doing their job to provide this environment to you.
My economics teacher always said you vote with your dollars. The stores and merchants you spend your money on you are voting to stay.
VOTE FOR PATHFINDER!
|
|
You'll get no disagreement from me. Most people aren't complaining because they think they should be able to play anywhere anytime for free. They're actually saying that the current policy is making it hard for them to accurately vote with their dollars. It's a policy that makes it really hard to support local stores, despite presumably being intended to do the opposite.
|
|
Benn, I can't speak for your store or your area, but I have been doing this for nearly a year here.
People do continue to buy books, figures, etc from the store despite this policy (I've been enforcing it like Mike laid out for some time because it was my understanding). We never buy as much as the Magic the Gathering guys, but our peeps do buy quite a bit from the store.
And, I don't have many players running out because of the requirements. Yeah, some buy the PDFs because of this. Sure. But many still buy and use those nifty carts to bring the books. Good friends/spouses, etc often share so they don't have to carry/buy so much. It does work. Really!
Of course, if you have not been doing it this way, and suddenly put your foot down in this direction, you're going to have some unhappy gamers. It happened big time when I took over here in Utah, despite giving plenty of time for people to get caught up on the resources or to switch to other legal options.
The reality was that we DID have a number of players using either no resources at all, or illegal ones such as d20pfsrd. Then, when I looked over books/PDFs, we had a number of peeps using copies of copies. Without even trying hard, I was able to see roughly half of them were pirated, or copied from friends who didn't even play at my store.
As I mention above, I generally take myself out of the "copyright police" role and simply tell my players that I will only accept resources that Paizo considers legal...and to write to Mike if there's a concern with those regulations. Inside, though, I can see why some of the tighter guidelines exist. Having a player base who uses copies of copies, illegal PDFs, etc, is not really helping Paizo to pay bills. So, if some of those go away because of the policies...it isn't too big of a deal.
Unfortunately, it does mean inconveniencing that segment of players who 1) Want to play complicated PFS and 2) Back them up with photocopies of hard books because 3) They don't want to carry books around and/or buy the PDFs as well (I get both as a subscriber).
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I hear ya. I've been running PFS at my store since 2009, and I've never, ever fostered or encouraged the idea that people don't need to own the appropriate sources, I've just been a little lax about enforcement.
I'm not suggesting these requirements will cause players to quit playing PFS. Just the opposite, I'm suggesting they'll cause stores to quit offering PFS since the easiest and cheapest path it offers that store's customers is to cut the store out of the supply chain and take advantage of the free gaming space. I realize that there are a lot of customers out there who are always, always going to voluntarily not take the easiest and cheapest path because they realize the value of supporting their local stores, but I promise you as a retailer it's a vocal minority.
I don't ever blame anyone for buying elsewhere. It would be absurd to expect every customer to spend every gaming dollar they have at my establishment. Hell, I buy the PDFs direct from paizo.com myself (as well as buying the books from my own store) for the added convenience. I also don't have any solutions with regard to the current policy. As I originally said, I'm divided on it (both as a player and a retailer). I want an ownership policy to exist, but I also want to be able to travel reasonably light when I game. I don't have a solution. But I wanted to make sure these points were heard too, because I don't think the policy accomplishes what it sets out to do.
I hope it's clear that I'm not just whining and complaining. I'm trying to provide helpful feedback.
|
I have to agree with those that are concerned about how to support their local store, while there's a policy in place by Paizo that encourages buying PDFs over hard copies.
I want to support my local stores. I always prefer to buy local instead of Amazon or other web sites when that's an option, to help the local stores stay in business. But I really don't need anything they sell. I keep buying PDFs from Paizo these days, because I just don't want to have to carry a hard copy of another book on game days, on top of everything else already in my fairly full backpack.
At this point, I'm sitting on 9 store credits for $5 each that I've gotten for GMing at my local stores, and I don't have anything to spend them on, even after picking up some more We Be Goblins minis and maps recently. I've taken to buying drinks from the store's soda machine every time I play there, just to make sure I'm spending money and helping out the store that way. I'd like to buy books from them, but PDF purchases can only come directly from Paizo.
|
|
I have been playing PFS for over 4 months, and for almost that entire time, my local merchant has been waiting for Paizo to refill his stock of resource books. I have been waiting several weeks now for his back orders to be filled. There are probably close to 10 other players in my area that I know of that are also waiting to buy books that Paizo never seems to have in stock.
I just remembered I wanted to respond to this. Jimbo, either your local store is making excuses (either because they're constantly forgetting to order these products or because they're sitting on your order until they have enough things they want to order from a particular distributor) OR the books you're waiting on are out of print. Off the top of my head, the Cheliax book, Elves of Golarion, and a number of older books (especially those that were released under 3.5 rules) are just never going to be available again, whether or not your store realizes it. You should check the books on your list against paizo.com. If the physical copy is sold out on paizo.com there's close to a zero percent chance your local store's going to be able to track down a copy, and you're left buying second hand or buying PDF.
The store doesn't order directly from Paizo. If you're based in the US, they're likely doing the bulk of their ordering from either ACD, Alliance, Southern, PHD, or a similar major distributor, all of whom are very, very up to date with their stock of Pathfinder products.
|
|
Fromper, I love the style of you greatly. More of you would help the world.
So if you disagree that is fine. What I do with my boons for GMing is find great people to give them too. I also buy new people small things from time to time. My favorite is dice. I buy someone their first set of dice and convince them to play.
So maybe if you are feeling generous and mee the right person. Buy them somethign with your boon. Buy minis and give them to new people so they have a figure for the PC they want to play. It is your items and I respect whatever you do with it. But that is what I do.
|
I know that we've changed the topic a little, but isn't there some way to make the sale of the PDF's from the local stores possible? The one that has already been mentioned when it was discussed during a game night is selling a code number that you would use on Paizo's website to authorize the download. Seems like a win-win solution. Anybody else have a thought on this?
|
|
I think Mike brock said that was above his pay grade or something about that.
That would be a big thing for paizo, and I honestly do not think it would be worth it to them. Cutting a store on the profit would either raise the price or reduce the profit for paizo.
I do not think the gain would be worth it. Just buy a few sodas at the store and it would be the same profit for the store.
|
|
Cutting a store on the profit would either raise the price or reduce the profit for paizo.
Then why does Paizo sell books at the FLGS at all? If their business plan is like others I've seen it is because they are thinking that any sale is profit to them. The sales that they are currently not getting because I can't buy the PDF at a game store would certainly make up for the partial loss of profit because it sold at the FLGS. 10% of something far outstrips 30% of nothing.
Scan your books. Then print them out. Now you have a printout.
/cheeky
|
|
I don't think I've made a character yet who's needed $1000 worth of books.Why not?
The mighty kyle baird is unable to make such a character?
I guess I don't go out of my way to find every obscure item/feat/spell out there? I still haven't made a character as strong as my wife's CRB only sorcerer...
|
|
Dear Mike,
Thanks for the clarification about what counts as a legal resource.
I have to say that as someone who owns a lot more than 50 pounds of resources in hard-form, you're apology that my $1000 spent on Paizo products means I am required to cart around a huge amount of weight, because you won't accept my photocopies, to continue to participate in PFS play, is telling me that I should be using my gaming time doing something else.
After my games at Gencon, I will have to weight what to do. Right now its looking like Paizo just lost a loyal customer.
So being an engineer and a math nerd, can you please post your character? I'd love to see the total weight and cost of the resources used for it. I'll go do my goblin which should be the highest.
|
|
stuff
Hey, I understand what you mean. A rule makes you no longer enjoy the game. You may quit because of it.
That is sad, but it is only fair to respect their reasons for it.
To counter the whole theme of this thread, I have never seen an audit. I am the only person I have ever seen ask someone if they have the book(Shame on me I did not enforce it). So the statistics of them enforcing the rules are slim. If you find a DM that does you can always find another table.
Quiting the game I feel is a long step to take after the love you have for it. That is seen with the amount of wealth and time you take to say this.
Excuse kyle's sardonic attitude. He means well, but can be a jerk like everyone else. I know I am huge jerk at times.
I am actually more upset that some book are out of print not letting me bring them to the table and resorting to pdfs.
If seeker of secrets is a 100 dollars online then that book should not be out of print.
|
|
Buying a ton of sources all at once may not be feasible for some budgets. Here's what I did (after realizing I'd gone a little crazy with Hero Lab packages and gone way out of core with a bunch of characters):
1) Audit your characters. If you're using Hero Lab, this is actually pretty easy:
2) Under Develop -> Prepare Portfolios in Folder for Distribution. Select the folder you just made
3) Hero Labs will now uncheck all the sources the portfolio is not using. What's left is what you need to own for your character to be legal (it unchecks the PFS stuff, and rechecking everything is a pain, which is why I make a copy first).
2) Make a list of the sources you need.
3) Prioritize:
Add up which sources are used by the most characters.
Determine which stuff you can live without (e.g, spells and equipment vs. Feats or Alternate racial traits)
I put mine in a spreadsheet because I'm a huge nerd. But this also means at a glance I can see which sources I need to prove legality for each of my characters. All of my resources are in PDF form, but I imagine this would also be useful for selecting which books you need to carry with you when playing a given character.
|
|
Kyle,
Soon I will be going to Gencon. I have a rather crucial resource from Rise of the Runelords, and all I own is the Collector's edition. It's not so hard to see that this will turn out to be a weighty proposition, even forgetting the rest of the resources for this character, and requiring me to bring my collector's edition which will take up most of a suitcase seems to be rather much. On the other hand, if I bring the character, and someone does an audit of it, I have an illegal character, if I don't bring it.
David what is the crucial item if you don't mind me asking? There might be a similar item with same properties in a different source?
Nathan Meyers
NYC PFS GM/Player
|
Right now its looking like Paizo just lost a loyal customer.
To be fair, I doubt that your character (or even characters) requires your entire library. Even the most complicated PC builds rarely require more than three or four books outside of the core assumption. So, I'm sure you could just take the books necessary to meet the requirements without being too much of a burden.
In general, and this is to everyone, when you essentially say, "screw you, I'm taking my football and going home," is not going to improve the situation. Sure you can rage-quit and spend your money elsewhere, everyone has that option, but to post in the forums as much just makes you sound like an petulant child and I'm sure that *you* do not intend to sound that way.
Explore! Report! Cooperate!
|
|
7th Level Goblin Barbarian (Feral Gnasher)
Books:
Core Rulebook*
Advanced Player's Guide
Advanced Race Guide
Faction Guide
Goblins of Golarion
Taldor, Echoes of Glory
Ultimate Combat**
Ultimate Equipment
Total hard-copy cost: $207 ($176 with AP subscription)
Total PDF cost: $70
Total Weight 11.5 lbs.
*CRB costs and weight are not figured in as it is not required to own a copy of the CRB to play PFS.
**Ultimate Combat is included even though I don't plan on using anything from this book until 9th level.
Also keep in mind that the cost is spread across 10 characters for me.
|
|
Kyle,
Soon I will be going to Gencon. I have a rather crucial resource from Rise of the Runelords, and all I own is the Collector's edition. It's not so hard to see that this will turn out to be a weighty proposition, even forgetting the rest of the resources for this character, and requiring me to bring my collector's edition which will take up most of a suitcase seems to be rather much. On the other hand, if I bring the character, and someone does an audit of it, I have an illegal character, if I don't bring it.
You don't need to bring the decorative case, just the book.
For those playing at home, that means David would have to bring a book that weighs 4 lbs 9-1/8 ounces, about 2 ounces heavier than the CRB.
If you read the PFS Guide to Organized Play v2.0 or later, you would have read that you would need to either A) bring the book or B) bring a watermarked pdf printout if you wanted to use something from an Additional Resource for a PFS character.
Just because people don't read the rules doesn't mean they shouldn't apply.
|
|
Not to throw in an unnecessary wrench into the most-book-challenge above, but not everyone goes to a con with only one character, I had 4 with me at PaizoCon for example. Maybe the challenge should be to make 2 or 3 characters using as many books as possible! :)
Mike's post simply highlighted a rule that was already in place that most people either ignored or didn't know before. That rule was at least amended in the past to allow people to bring e-readers/tablets instead of books and printouts. I don't see Paizo expanding that to include random photocopies.
|
|
David what is the crucial item if you don't mind me asking? There might be a similar item with same properties in a different source?
Nathan Meyers
NYC PFS GM/PlayerNathan,
I have fog-cutting lenses that I use when the party gets in too deep, and looks like it's heading for a tpk. Do you know of a replacement?
Goz Mask from ISWG is the same price and doesn't have the -4 penalty and 20% miss chance. And there's one more item that combines that effect w/ immunity to gasses like a necklace of adaptation, looking for it now.
|
|
Goz mask from ISWG and there's one more item, looking for it now.David what is the crucial item if you don't mind me asking? There might be a similar item with same properties in a different source?
Nathan Meyers
NYC PFS GM/PlayerNathan,
I have fog-cutting lenses that I use when the party gets in too deep, and looks like it's heading for a tpk. Do you know of a replacement?
Kyle beat me to it.
;)
The Goz Mask and Fog Cutting lenses cost the same amount too 8K.
I run PFS games at my store every week. We have over 50 regular players, and we've gotten to a point where we're running eight tables per week on-schedule, and usually another two to six tables off-schedule. I recently announced to our Google Group that I was going to begin cracking down on people not owning the books they were using for their characters, and unfortunately this has generated a bit of an issue.
I understand that if someone sits down to a table and they're using a feat or a piece of equipment from a book they don't own, they should just switch that feat out or get their gold back for that piece of equipment. That makes total sense to me. But I apparently have customers (and I'm using the term loosely here) who don't own a single Pathfinder book, and I'm not sure what to do about them.
Can someone who's using ten different books he doesn't own for a character effectively rebuild nearly every aspect of his character to be core only? Or does he have to make a choice between buying the books and losing his character? What am I supposed to do about this?
Can you bend the rules a little?
Like for every book they buy/own, you give them 1 month of using their current illegal characters.
That way over time, anyone who really likes their characters can afford to buy all the books they need, or at a bare minimum, buy a CRB and give themselves a month to think it over.
|
Not to throw in an unnecessary wrench into the most-book-challenge above, but not everyone goes to a con with only one character, I had 4 with me at PaizoCon for example. Maybe the challenge should be to make 2 or 3 characters using as many books as possible! :)Mike's post simply highlighted a rule that was already in place that most people either ignored or didn't know before. That rule was at least amended in the past to allow people to bring e-readers/tablets instead of books and printouts. I don't see Paizo expanding that to include random photocopies.
Mistargeted quote? I was talking about the way later in the thread challenge by Finlanderboy! Trust me, I've been following the thread intently since page one.
|
Goz Mask from ISWG is the same price and doesn't have the -4 penalty and 20% miss chance. And there's one more item that combines that effect w/ immunity to gasses like a necklace of adaptation, looking for it now.David what is the crucial item if you don't mind me asking? There might be a similar item with same properties in a different source?
Nathan Meyers
NYC PFS GM/PlayerNathan,
I have fog-cutting lenses that I use when the party gets in too deep, and looks like it's heading for a tpk. Do you know of a replacement?
Frontovik's Gas Mask from the "Rasputin Must Die" Adventure Path.
Breathe underwater/vacuum, immune to harmful gasses, see inside fog/mists when inside said fog/mist. However, -2 Perception. 17000g.
|
|
Eyes 50 pounds of books.
Eyes exactly knife.
Sees solution.
I wish people would stop using hyperbole. :-(
Scroll up, my little goblin uses 11.5 lbs of books. Most of those books are shared across multiple characters. Add a few other books if I'm bringing a couple characters and I'm looking at about 15 lbs.
|
|
Ok, let's see if I can clarify this entire topic for everyone and hit on all the relevant points.
A player must have a physical copy of the Additional Resource in question, a name-watermarked Paizo PDF of the book, or a printout of the relevant pages from a name-watermarked PDF, as well as provide access electronically or a physical copy of the current version of the Additional Resources list, as advised in the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play.
A print out is not a photocopy. It is exactly what it advises. It is a print out from a watermarked PDF that, when printed, shows the name of the person (and their email) on the top or bottom of the page. A photocopy of a physical book that does not show a watermark does not fulfill the requirement. This includes a photocopy of a book you borrowed from a friend, checked out of a library, or any other copy you obtained and photocopied or scanned pages from.
Mike
I carry my tablet with my watermarked pdf's on it. I have never had a problem with this method as
1) I can prove it's mine
2) I can provide the exact wording of any feat, spell ect... upon request
According to the letter of your acceptable methods I could be deemed illegal because nothing is printed
Please clarify that if showing the pdf and proving the water mark matches the player is sufficient
Thanks
Rich
|
|
For instance, I have blood money on one of my character. I am not lugging around a 5 lb book for one spell. So basically, if it's an issue, no sweat, I don't use said spell. And yes I bought the book.It should always be an issue. Just because a rule hasn't been strongly enforced, doesn't mean you aren't in the wrong every single time you show up at a table with a character built with features from sources you can't provide. If you don't like that, build a character that doesn't utilize a single feature from a single 5-lb book. Incidentally, only the the Special Edition RotRL book is actually 5 lbs or more (CRB is 4.4 lbs).
Why? Because I like having my local store open. So...because my option was to support my local store staying open so we have a place to play, my option is spend MORE money to get a PDF, break my back to carry everything or not use stuff I spent money on? Like I said, for me, not a big deal mostly as the stuff I use outside of the hardback rulebooks is pretty minimal. But I can see how some people would get a bit upset that they have to lug around 100lb of stuff just because they are supporting their local stores. So, yeah it's been 6 years...maybe we should have another look at this for those of us who buy physical books.There are countless ways to support your FLGS, buying books is just one of them.
And no one has said people HAVE to carry around 100 lbs of books (which is really poor hyperbole anyway). If you don't want buy the pdf FOR WHATEVER REASON, don't. If you don't want to carry your books to play PDF, don't. At that point you can either A) build your character w/o those features, B) play at home instead of traveling somewhere, or C) find a different game that doesn't require you to show some very minimal proof of purchase.
Umm...why yes I do in fact have the special edition Rise of the Runelord book.
And yes, technically I should not be able to use blood money without adding 5 lbs to my already fraking heavy backpack. Hell I actually carry EVERYTHING I need my character to work with me at the very least (which is more books then you FYI...also I have books I use to run games.). The only thing I would lose out on is a spell here or there which really doesn't have much of an impact really on how my characters work. Which is more then what most people are willing to lug around actually. But yes, technically you are correct...but thank god GMs around here aren't as unreasonable as you seem to want to be. They see my stack of books...see my stacks of APs that I have on hand that I run games with and they seem to believe me when I say I run a LOT of APs and I have a good chunk of them. If that is not good enough...because technically it isn't, then I don't use that spell at that table.
So your solution to something that is an issue is...1)Suck it up and don't use stuff you paid money for. 2)Suck it up and don't play at your local store with your friends. 3)Don't play PFS. Yeah...real welcoming there. And honestly, none of those are ACTUAL solutions to the problem. How about, it's been 6 FRAKING years...so how about we have a discussion about it because a LOT HAS CHANGED IN 6 FRAKING YEARS...namely the amount of books. That being said...I have no idea what a good solution would be.