[PFS] Who benefits most from Expedition Manager?

[Jiggy]

I've recently acquired the Expedition Manager PFS boon. Text is spoilered below:

Expedition Manager:

In addition to your more dangerous duties as a Pathfinder, you also have undertaken an archaeological excavation at a minor site. Your venture-captain expects you to fund the expedition yourself, but so long as you report on your findings, you may keep any physical goods uncovered for yourself. When rolling your Day Job check at the end of a scenario, you may spend between 2 and 6 Prestige Points to pay for supplies, expenses, and personnel. The next time you roll a Day Job check, the expedition returns with research and relics dependent upon how many Prestige Points you spent.

You can acquire any single item of the listed price or less at no cost. An item acquired in this way is worth 0gp and cannot be sold. In addition, your archaeological findings may contain clues about historical events, arcane enigmas, or other mysteries. As a free action, you gain a bonus on a Knowledge (arcana, history, planes, or religion) check equal to the number of Prestige Points that you spent. When you use the skill bonus, cross this boon off your Chronicle sheet.

2PP: The item acquired costs 1,000gp or less.

4PP: The item acquired costs 2,000gp or less.

6PP: The item acquired costs 3,500gp or less.

(It's been clarified by Mike Brock that although the skill bonus is a one-shot ability, the item acquisition is reusable.)

So, what sort of character benefits the most from this? It can't be used to upgrade existing items, so past a certain point you're just getting expensive consumables.

It occurs to me that the 2PP option perfectly covers a Cloak of Resistance +1 and first-level Pearls of Power.

The 4PP option grabs a Ring of Protection +1 or an Amulet of Natural Armor +1.

The 6PP option falls just short of stat-boosters or 2nd-level Pearls or a +2 Cloak of Resistance. I'm not sure what you'd get for that.

So, what are some good items for getting full value out of this? What sorts of characters do those items point toward giving this to?

[Marc Radle]

This should probably be moved to the PFS forums

[creepyblack]

Lesser Metamagic Rods for 6PP? And a handfull of Ioun Stones for each level of PP seem to be decent.

[Jiggy]

Hrm, so maybe best for a caster, then?

And which ioun stones are you thinking of?

[SCPRedMage]

I would definitely say a caster, particularly because they usually have less risk of dying, and needing all that prestige to recover.

[nosig]

I am actually in process of getting a Lens of Detection on my Detective Bard with one of these...

6PP: The item acquired costs 3,500gp or less.

[Jiggy]

Ooooh, you know, I've been pondering a knowledge-focused mystic theurge concept with lots of divination-related spells and abilities. That could very easily be the type of scholarly character who would fund their own archaeological expeditions...

[kinevon]

If lucky enough to get it early, I could see using the 6 PP option for a +1 Adaptive composite darkwood longbow (Str +0). I think that comes to 3430 gp. Could go Str +1 and normal materials for 3500 gp, though. Wouldn't quite cover greenwood, I think.

[Jiggy]

kinevon wrote:

If lucky enough to get it early, I could see using the 6 PP option for a +1 Adaptive composite darkwood longbow (Str +0). I think that comes to 3430 gp. Could go Str +1 and normal materials for 3500 gp, though. Wouldn't quite cover greenwood, I think.

That'd be pretty sweet, though I'm scratching my head on coming up with a concept for an archer who would also manage expeditions...

[redward]

I'd use it for items that could save you needing those PP for Raise Deads:

Elixir of Spirit Sight for 2PP / 1000gp

Aegis of Recovery for 2PP / 1500gp

Gloves of Reconnaissance for 4PP / 2000gp (also thematically appropriate, I think)

What about a Scrollmaster? You could buy a scroll with 40 1st level spells for 2PP (or something less ridiculous).

[Jiggy]

redward wrote:

I'd use it for items that could save you needing those PP for Raise Deads:

Elixir of Spirit Sight for 2PP / 1000gp

Aegis of Recovery for 2PP / 1500gp

Gloves of Reconnaissance for 4PP / 2000gp (also thematically appropriate, I think)

What about a Scrollmaster? You could buy a scroll with 40 1st level spells for 2PP (or something less ridiculous).

Using it for other gear works as well, as that frees up gold to spend on those consumables.

[nosig]

warning - math ahead! If you don't want your game reduced to calculations skip this...

3500gp/6 = 584 gp per PP.
2000gp/4 = 500 gp per PP.
1000gp/2 = 500 gp per PP.

a Raise dead is:
5,450 gp or 16 PP = 341 gp per PP

am I reading this correct?
If I bank 5,450 gp to use for the raise dead, I could spend the 16 PP I would normally have saved for that on 8,000 gp in stuff? where did I screw this up?

[Avatar-1]

Where in god's name did you get that boon

[Ferious Thune]

It's a convention boon. I've got it at well, but I never imagined it would be reusable. That would greatly help my oracle recover from the wealth hole he dug himself into by getting killed at 3rd level.

Jiggy, do you have a link to Mike's clarification on it applying more than once?

[kinevon]

nosig wrote:

warning - math ahead! If you don't want your game reduced to calculations skip this...

3500gp/6 = 584 gp per PP.
2000gp/4 = 500 gp per PP.
1000gp/2 = 500 gp per PP.

a Raise dead is:
5,450 gp or 16 PP = 341 gp per PP

am I reading this correct?
If I bank 5,450 gp to use for the raise dead, I could spend the 16 PP I would normally have saved for that on 8,000 gp in stuff? where did I screw this up?

Just in the fine print. Remember that that is going to either be 4x2K gp items, or 8x1K gp items, or some mixture between the two; or 2x3500 gp item plus 1x2K gp item or 2x1K gp items.

4 PP for a handy haversack? Other than teh delay, not bad. Especially if you have this on a low level PC, who could then get some ... interesting ... items earlier than Fame permits.

[Jiggy]

Ferious Thune wrote:

Jiggy, do you have a link to Mike's clarification on it applying more than once?

In this post, a player quotes an email reply from Mike, answering his question about the topic. Mike's answer is "No, it is not a one shot."

[Jiggy]

Wait a minute, isn't that one single-spell-level-storing ioun stone 2,000gp exactly? Am I remembering that right?

Suddenly I'm thinking of a badass archaeologist who dual-wields picks (6PP apiece for adamantine ones, perhaps?) and uses that ioun stone (4PP) to use shield if he gets into a tough fight. He can be a ranger and get a +1 breastplate, a ring of protection +1 and an amulet of natural armor +1 for 4PP apiece, lessening the budget issues of TWFing...

[nosig]

nosig wrote:

warning - math ahead! If you don't want your game reduced to calculations skip this...

3500gp/6 = 584 gp per PP.
2000gp/4 = 500 gp per PP.
1000gp/2 = 500 gp per PP.

a Raise dead is:
5,450 gp or 16 PP = 341 gp per PP

am I reading this correct?
If I bank 5,450 gp to use for the raise dead, I could spend the 16 PP I would normally have saved for that on 8,000 gp in stuff? where did I screw this up?

realizing that it is only really useful for items that are very close to the costs (without going over) 1000, 2000, 3500gp.

afterall, say you want to use it to "recover" Eyes of the Eagle. Cost would be 6 PP, and a delay of one adventure (at least), and you get a 2500gp item.

2500gp/6PP = 417 gp per PP... still a good deal, but not as good as "best case"

A +1 Heavy Shield would be: 1157gp/4 PP = 289.25 gp per PP, so not a good deal, actually less then the cost of the Raise Dead cost.

[Jiggy]

If I did do the dual-pick-wielding archaeologist, I wonder whether I should spend 6PP each on a pair of adamantine picks, or 6PP each on a pair of +1 picks...

[Chris Mortika]

One of each.

[Jiggy]

Nooooo, then I'd have to keep them separate! What's the point of Double Slice if I still have to tell my weapons apart from each other? ;)

[Selgard]

Do it 3 times.

Get two +1's and an Adam one for should that become necessary.
:)

-S

[Todd Morgan]

I would definitely use this for a character that is spending most of his scenario gold on weapons/armor that don't have a lot left over for other types of items. So TWF or Heavy Armor wearers

[Ferious Thune]

Jiggy wrote:

Ferious Thune wrote:

Jiggy, do you have a link to Mike's clarification on it applying more than once?

In this post, a player quotes an email reply from Mike, answering his question about the topic. Mike's answer is "No, it is not a one shot."

Thanks, and wow. I'm going to have to plan some expeditions. I think this boon is probably best for casters, because there are so many low cost items that help them, and several they can buy multiples of. But it's a fantastic boon for anyone. I thought that when I thought you could only use it once.

[Jiggy]

Ironically, I'm kind of terrified to use it, as I typically bank Prestige (after one or two early purchases) to use in case of a death. :/

[Ferious Thune]

nosig wrote:

afterall, say you want to use it to "recover" Eyes of the Eagle. Cost would be 6 PP, and a delay of one adventure (at least), and you get a 2500gp item.

2500gp/6PP = 417 gp per PP... still a good deal, but not as good as "best case"

It's a good point, though in this particular instance, if you're worried about maximizing value, you could buy Lenses of Detection instead. 3,500gp for the same Perception bonus and a +5 to Survival when tracking. Not necessarily worth the extra thousand gold if you're spending gold on it, but if you were going to spend 6pp for Eyes of the Eagle anyway, you may as well get the extra bonus for the same cost.

Just like with normal prestige purchases, you need to plan out what it makes sense to purchase, or find, with this.

EDITED-Plus, look at the pictures of Eyes of the Eagle and Lenses of Detection. Which would you rather wear? There's no way my Inquisitor would be caught dead wearing the yellow monstrosities that are eyes of the eagle, but a pair of cool shades? That's worth 1,000gp by itself!

[nosig]

Ferious Thune wrote:

nosig wrote:

nosig wrote:

afterall, say you want to use it to "recover" Eyes of the Eagle. Cost would be 6 PP, and a delay of one adventure (at least), and you get a 2500gp item.

2500gp/6PP = 417 gp per PP... still a good deal, but not as good as "best case"

It's a good point, though in this particular instance, if you're worried about maximizing value, you could buy Lenses of Detection instead. 3,500gp for the same Perception bonus and a +5 to Survival when tracking. Not necessarily worth the extra thousand gold if you're spending gold on it, but if you were going to spend 6pp for Eyes of the Eagle anyway, you may as well get the extra bonus for the same cost.

Just like with normal prestige purchases, you need to plan out what it makes sense to purchase, or find, with this.

actually, the 5th post in this thread was my pointing out that I "...am actually in process of getting a Lens of Detection on my Detective Bard with one of these..."

so, yeah, the Lens of D is a fine choice for this boon.

[Jiggy]

Yeah, at the moment I'm thinking of a TWF build, and spending 4PP on a ring of protection, another 4PP on an amulet of natural armor, then 6PP on a +1 weapon, then another 6PP on its twin, then 4PP on a spell-storing ioun stone for shield...

Is that too slow of a progression, using PP for all those things (having to build up said PP in between) rather than buying them when I can afford the gold?

[Sin of Asmodeus]

Jiggy, save the money for upgrading these items for yourself. I'd do it your way.
Heck for my magus, I started off getting armor that I needed for my magus as well as picking up some nifty stuff out of the UE book.

[Todd Morgan]

I would recommend splitting them. Using your scenario gold for weapons and the PP for the rings and minor wondrous items. That way you aren't gimping yourself out of PP if you need to regain some drain or a neg level

[Ferious Thune]

nosig wrote:

actually, the 5th post in this thread was my pointing out that I "...am actually in process of getting a Lens of Detection on my Detective Bard with one of these..."

so, yeah, the Lens of D is a fine choice for this boon.

I missed that post. Good for you. Us detective types have to look out for each others' images. (My Inquisitor is in a home game, so the boon doesn't apply. But I did convince the GM to let me have a Fedora of the Fortunate Soldier made, because I'm not going to walk around with a cone on my head. Now if I can talk him into a Mnemonic Duster...).

It is a little inconvenient that a 5th level scroll, for example, is just over the 2pp limit and well under the 4pp limit. I suppose you could spend 6pp and get one with three copies of the spell. Though any 5th level spell you're casting that often off a scroll, you should probably find a way to learn.

[CWheezy]

Jiggy wrote:

Ironically, I'm kind of terrified to use it, as I typically bank Prestige (after one or two early purchases) to use in case of a death. :/

What, do you want to live forever?

[Ferious Thune]

Ok, so I've sent out the expedition for the second time to look for a Ring of Protection +1 for my Oracle. Here's hoping this is all on the level and they come back with something. It still feels a little too good to be true.

[Mr C]

Ive been using the expeditions for

1. A rod of still metamagic
2. A dragon hide full plate armor.

Now my sorceror, fighter - hellknight enforcer aspirant is feeling chic and stylish.

[Ferious Thune]

I used mine on

1. Amulet of Natural Armor +1
2. Ring of Protection +1
3. Consecrated Elven Curved Blade +1 named "Baudhiel" or "Pharasma's Judgement"

In retrospect, I should have gone for a Consecrated (Channel Focus from Adventurer's Armory) Adamantine Elven Curved Blade, then paid gold for the +1, since I can't add Adamantine after the fact. It would have been more cost effective, plus I would have an Adamantine weapon.

That character ended up Prestige poor from a Raise Dead and a retraining when the Warpriest came out. He's almost got enough prestige back to send the Expedition again. A Rod of Extend Spell might be good. One more scenario, and he'll be able to do that and still have 4 Prestige left (He's got the Debt to Society boon, which would let him raise for 4 PP, but then he'd owe 16 more and pretty much be done spending prestige for the rest of his career).

[Darius Leroung]

As a CORE concept I'm thinking of pairing Expedition Manager with Extra Hours (and several initial levels of GM Credit) to hit the ground running around level 4ish.

Human Fighter-1/Druid-X, Lawful Neutral, Dark Archive, Roleplays himself as a Hellknight of Asmodeus (I'll grab the Prestige Awards). Horse Animal Companion. Focused on Mounted Combat.

Expedition site? Why, Rachikan, of course ;-)

My planned purchases would be:
6pp: Black Dragonhide Fullplate (normally 3300gp)
6pp: Adamantine Lance (normally 3010gp)
6pp: Lesser Rod of Extend (normally 3000gp)
6pp: Horseshoes of Speed (normally 3000gp)
4pp: Ring of Protection +1 (normally 2000gp)
4pp: Breastplate Barding +1 (normally 1950gp)
2pp: Cloak of Resistance +1 (normally 1000gp)
2pp: Pearls of Power (normally 1000gp each)

Assuming every point of Prestige is acquired and spent (probably only likely with GM credit) I will have saved roughly 18,000gp by level 8.

Banking 5450gp for a Raise Dead seems worth it.

EDIT: In fact, new profile created!

[Jason Wu]

I used mine to resurrect a two year old thread!

:)

-j

[Auke Teeninga]

AFAIK Mike said that it was not a one shot, because it's a two shot!

(once for the item, once for the bonus)

[Iammars]

Given that the question he answered was "Are both parts of this boon a one shot?", we can be pretty confident that it's not a one shot.

[Auke Teeninga]

James McTeague wrote:

Given that the question he answered was "Are both parts of this boon a one shot?", we can be pretty confident that it's not a one shot.

Well, maybe we should bump this thread again.

Mostly because John Compton says it's a one shot one post above the copied "email".

[Ascalaphus]

I would be nice to get a consensus on this from the leadership. I mean, it's a fine boon if it's one-use, but I wouldn't complain if it was multi-use...

[Nefreet]

Auke Teeninga wrote:

James McTeague wrote:

Given that the question he answered was "Are both parts of this boon a one shot?", we can be pretty confident that it's not a one shot.

Well, maybe we should bump this thread again.

Mostly because John Compton says it's a one shot one post above the copied "email".

Ah. John Compton's alias. That's what was confusing me.

So we have one head saying he "believes" the "intent" was for it to be one shot, but the language doesn't support that, and an answer (albeit short and brief) from another head saying it's not a one shot.

Seems to me like an Ettin reading the Advanced Class Guide.

If it is only one shot, I know quite a few ppl who'll be in a conundrum (including another, older character of mine), since we read the boon as having no limit (it doesn't) and we've used it multiple times already.

[Iammars]

Right, but wasn't that from before John Compton was working for Paizo? He started back at the end of Season 4, and Nov 2012 is the beginning of Season 4.

(I may have my timing off. Also he might have written that boon.)

[Auke Teeninga]

If it's not a one shot, anyone using the second part would really screw himself over. That just doesn't make sense to me.