10 hit points, 10 skill points, or a free rogue trick?

[karossii]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

I was under the impression that Shield Master removed all two-weapon fighting penalties, but no other type of penalty.

That's at least, how it should work.

You're right that is how it SHOULD work, but as it is worded, while fighting with two shields, (or a shield and a weapon), you never suffer any penalties of any kind to attack rolls made with a shield, ever. So yeah, that would be massively broken. I started a topic in the rules forum...

[Ilja]

Agreed, that's how it should work. That's the only reasonable intent and it's how we've always played it and will continue to, but the RAW seems to be different.

Quote:

Shield Master (Combat)

Your mastery of the shield allows you to fight with it without hindrance.

Prerequisites: Improved Shield Bash, Shield Proficiency, Shield Slam, Two-Weapon Fighting, base attack bonus +11.

Benefit: You do not suffer any penalties on attack rolls made with a shield while you are wielding another weapon. Add your shield's enhancement bonus to attacks and damage rolls made with the shield as if it was a weapon enhancement bonus.

It actually doesn't even mention two-weapon fighting in the whole text explicitly (you can wield a shield and a weapon without two-weapon fighting).

By a strict reading of the RAW you will never take _any_ penalties on attack rolls made with a shield while you are wielding another weapon - including everything from Bestow Curse to Power Attack to Enlarge Person.

Heh. It's of course not intended, but it was an amusing find by Karossii.

[blackbloodtroll]

Iterative attacks are not attacks at a penalty, but attacks with a different bonus.

[karossii]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Iterative attacks are not attacks at a penalty, but attacks with a different bonus.

True, but the additional attacks granted by TWF, ITWF, and GTWF are explicitly 'additional attacks' at a 'penalty', and not iterative attacks - removing that penalty means you have 3 attacks off hand at full BAB, plus your main hand routine.

[Rynjin]

Yeah, that's how Shield Master was intended to work.

Main hand as normal (Regular, -5, -10, etc. applying TWFing penalties as needed) and off-hand with no penalties.

[karossii]

Rynjin wrote:

Yeah, that's how Shield Master was intended to work.

Main hand as normal (Regular, -5, -10, etc. applying TWFing penalties as needed) and off-hand with no penalties.

But shield master goes beyond that, RAW... if fighting with one (or two!) shields as weapons, you never suffer any penalties from any source. Yes, Iterative attacks are not penalties. But debuffs are. Conditions are. etc., etc. All of the sudden, nothing ever makes you attack at lower than full BAB...