Is Oath of Vengeance worth it?

[Coinshot Colton]

I've never played a paladin before, and never really looked too much into it, but I'm looking at building a backup character, and I've decided to give the class a look.

The paladin I have in mind is a 2-handed weapon warrior. Most likely he'd be an aasimar or a tiefling (nice LoH favored class, but -2 Int hurts).

I've seen some nice paladin builds using LoH to be nearly unkillable with all sorts of bonuses, but I've also noticed that the only way to get more smites per day is through Oath of Vengeance, which uses LoH. So, is it worth burning through LoH to use more smites? Should I not even bother optimizing LoH and just get Extra LoH to get more smites?

[SunsetPsychosis]

If you're going with an Aasimar, just go with Angelkin. +2 Str, +2 Cha, no stat penalties.

Oath of Vengeance is good, not only for the ability to convert LoH to smites, but for the more efficient eventual 'Alpha Strike' ability of Powerful Justice. Giving your other melee bruisers the ability to add your level to damage for every attack is HUGE, especially with something like a flurrying monk or TWF rogue.

Channel Energy is a much, much less efficient use of your LoH resources than an extra smite, so you're not really losing much.

[Ice Titan]

Look at demon spawn (+2 str +2 cha -2 int) and kyton spawn (+2 con +2 cha -2 wis) tieflings for other stat lines.

LoH is great, and so is Oath of Vengeance. If your party has a healer and you own a wand of cure light wounds, sometimes sacking two lay on hands for a second smite is fantastic. Divine bonding your armor to add medium fortification is amazing versus people with sneak attack or high crit chance. Having a domain spell slot is worth giving up channel and one mercy, believe me.

Don't worry about taking Extra LoH for more smites. Just use yours wisely, and re-up when the time comes. It works out well.

I played an oath of vengeance/oath against fiends tiefling paladin and it worked out great. 4d6+8 on my lay on hands? Yes, thank you.

[Coinshot Colton]

SunsetPsychosis wrote:

Channel Energy is a much, much less efficient use of your LoH resources than an extra smite, so you're not really losing much.

I'm not concerned about Channel Energy. Was more concerned about whether it was wise to burn through LoH for smites. How often do you normally smite in a day? I can see myself burning through a bunch of LoH due to low AC. 2H paladins seem to have low AC :/

Ice Titan wrote:

Don't worry about taking Extra LoH for more smites. Just use yours wisely, and re-up when the time comes. It works out well.

I played an oath of vengeance/oath against fiends tiefling paladin and it worked out great. 4d6+8 on my lay on hands? Yes, thank you.

How often did you use LoH compared to Smite on any given day? Did you bother taking the LoH feats like Fey Foundling and Greater Mercy?

[SunsetPsychosis]

AC becomes less relevant when you blast through the bad guys more often. Remember, Smite also boosts your AC vs your Smite target, which helps. LoH isn't something you use every time you get damaged, it's to help keep you alive and out of range of being one shotted. Out of combat healing with things like a Wand of Cure Light Wounds is often the most efficient option.

Remember, you don't HAVE to do it. It just gives you another option for what to do with unused LoHs.

I honestly wouldn't bother using any of the feats. Paladins are feat starved as it is. If you're going with a bruiser sort of build, just put your feats into damage and let your innate resilience and some good full plate be all you need for survival. Remember, dead bad guys do no damage.

[Bomanz]

I am currently playing an Oath of Vengeance/Oath against Fiends 2-weapon pally in a campaign.

He is totally badass.

I have taken 2 "Extral LoH" feats now by lvl 10, and with a decent CHA its easy to have 9+ LayonHands, which translates usually into many many Smites more often than not.

Don't forget too, that a Paladin's Mercy is LoH dependant, and being able to remove Fatigue, Disease, Shaken and other conditions is priceless.

In our group, not only do I smite like its going out of style, I often mid-combat work with the barbarian to remove his fatigue so he can Rage again and get another power usage off.

Oh, and I heal myself in combat on occasion.

If you are worried about the low AC, look at the spell: Hero's Defiance which is pretty much a big giant F-U to the BBEG thats trying to kill you. An extra 1d6 on my LoH right before I die horribly?? YES PLEASE!!

Frankly, as a 2 handed fighting style, after a few feats to make your damage high (power attack and such) I'd go almost all Extra Lay On Hands just for the smiting, removal of conditions, and the heal.

Not a big fan of the pally channeling, leave that to the Cleric/Oracle.

Go big or go home on the damage output, and Smiting 3+ times in a day is just sexy as hell.