Caster Druids are awesome. But the idea that you wouldn't wild shape at all is silly. Caster Druids absolutely wild shape, usually into air elementals--then they sit back out of combat range and cast. Frankly, I think they're better in the long run than melee focused Druids, because at high levels, spells > anything that isn't spells.
I see druid as a transitive character. I would have at least 16 str and 16 wis and 14 con (after race mods). Put level points into wis.
Many guides will tell you to grab a domain instead of an animal companion. Ignore those.
When you start off your animal companion and spells will be your early level fun.
At level 5 natural spell makes druids amazing gishes and their animal companion is still good.
At high-mid or high levels, you should have all of your summoning feats and have access to great spells. Your animal companion falls to the wayside unless you invest buff spells to it. Wildshape becomes an AC utility form or a combat form against mooks.
Pure caster focused druid stat-dumping strength is wasteful. Many of their best spells do not have saves. I found that when I played a balance druid, that I was a dominate force at all levels of play. Not always the best, but always above average. I never felt useless in an encounter.
You don't play a druid as a cleric or wizard. Their spell list is balanced to be inferior, but you still have more damage and destruction than a cleric and more buffs and heals than a wizard. On top of that you are drowning in class features that could be a class all by themselves.
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I really wish there was a druid archetype that gave up Wild Shape completely for better spellcasting ...
Nature Oracle?
I really wish there was a druid archetype that gave up Wild Shape completely for better spellcasting ...
Why? I would then want a wildshape spell.
Wizard waste so many spells on buffs to avoid death. Druids have great AC and saves. Not to mention that they have more than enough spells and spont summons.
I really wish there was a druid archetype that gave up Wild Shape completely for better spellcasting ...Why? I would then want a wildshape spell.
Wizard waste so many spells on buffs to avoid death. Druids have great AC and saves. Not to mention that they have more than enough spells and spont summons.
I just don't like wild shape. It doesn't fit my image of what druids do/are. *shrug*
I just don't like wild shape. It doesn't fit my image of what druids do/are. *shrug*I really wish there was a druid archetype that gave up Wild Shape completely for better spellcasting ...Why? I would then want a wildshape spell.
Wizard waste so many spells on buffs to avoid death. Druids have great AC and saves. Not to mention that they have more than enough spells and spont summons.
You don't have to use the ability. For above average classes this is an option.
Like my master summoner has yet to make an eidolon simply because it doesn't fit my idea of a summoner.
I just don't like wild shape. It doesn't fit my image of what druids do/are. *shrug*I really wish there was a druid archetype that gave up Wild Shape completely for better spellcasting ...Why? I would then want a wildshape spell.
Wizard waste so many spells on buffs to avoid death. Druids have great AC and saves. Not to mention that they have more than enough spells and spont summons.
You don't have to use the ability. For above average classes this is an option.
Like my master summoner has yet to make an eidolon simply because it doesn't fit my idea of a summoner.
Yeah, but I'd still rather get something in return for it. Plus, I'd have the rest of the players telling me to use it, and I couldn't legitimately say 'I can't'.
Fair enough.
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I really wish there was a druid archetype that gave up Wild Shape completely for better spellcasting ...
What the heck could possibly be a better spell caster then a druid?
Also can I say on a completely unrelated note that just because your not going to use a class feature doesn't ever mean you deserve some kind of reward for doing so? No one ever deserves that.
I really wish there was a druid archetype that gave up Wild Shape completely for better spellcasting ...What the heck could possibly be a better spell caster then a druid?
Also can I say on a completely unrelated note that just because your not going to use a class feature doesn't ever mean you deserve some kind of reward for doing so? No one ever deserves that.
If you give up a class feature, you get something in return. That's how archetypes work. You know, balance (such as it is).
It depends on what you're looking for in terms of casting. My personal experience with druids as pure casters was quite short-lived, and lacking a lot. They can't really be blasters; they don't get any spells like that until later, and even then other casters still own you in that department because the druid list for damage spells sucks. They can't really be CC because their concept of CC is natural; most things magical, supernatural, extra planar, what have you will trivialize it.
So what good of spells do they have? Buffs. Sure, Clerics have more buff spells, but Druids have buffs that Clerics don't, and those buffs synergize well with a Wild Shape druid. Throw in an animal companion, and you're a real monster.
In short, caster druids as they are can't really function; they're obsolete and easily undermined by the other classes. But that doesn't mean their spells can't be amazing to use.
Actually ignore this post. My partner plays a Flame Druid and he's been absolutely burning his way into PFS legendary status in our region. Druids can be absolutely phenomenal as primary casters.I see druid as a transitive character. I would have at least 16 str and 16 wis and 14 con (after race mods). Put level points into wis.
Many guides will tell you to grab a domain instead of an animal companion. Ignore those.
How dare you besmirch the honor of Waffles the Dire wolf!
But seriously levels 1-4 that AC is more useful that 2 spells and a SLA.
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With retraining now in the game, I think the best bet might be using an Animal Companion for the beginning of the game and switching to a Domain later, when it matters more.
I am also baffled by people saying Druids can't be pure spellcasters. They have CC that makes wizards jealous (Entangle and Wall of Thorns are two of my favorite CC spells in the game, and they're just the tip of the iceberg), and they have plenty of blasting spells, especially with the right domain and archetype (as someone said above, spontaneous domain access can lead to decent blasting).
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Using a function of the system exactly as designed is gaming the system now?
*Throws up hands*
*Walks out of thread*
I just don't like wild shape. It doesn't fit my image of what druids do/are. *shrug*I really wish there was a druid archetype that gave up Wild Shape completely for better spellcasting ...Why? I would then want a wildshape spell.
Wizard waste so many spells on buffs to avoid death. Druids have great AC and saves. Not to mention that they have more than enough spells and spont summons.
I agree 100%. Always thought I was the only one!
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I think there should be an option for full casting druids without wildshape too, though most people will disagree why. I kind of want to make a Gandalf druid with a level of wizard and a level of fighter. Because most of what gandalf does is calls eagles (A.K.A. summon nature's ally spells), casts light (that almost all spellcasters get) and summons lightning bolts (A.K.A. Call Lightning). the only wizard stuff he does is through wands (A.K.A. UMD)and he does less wizard stuff than he does druid stuff. The only problem with the idea of him being a druid is he doesn't wildshape, or wear hide armor.
With retraining now in the game, I think the best bet might be using an Animal Companion for the beginning of the game and switching to a Domain later, when it matters more.
I am also baffled by people saying Druids can't be pure spellcasters. They have CC that makes wizards jealous (Entangle and Wall of Thorns are two of my favorite CC spells in the game, and they're just the tip of the iceberg), and they have plenty of blasting spells, especially with the right domain and archetype (as someone said above, spontaneous domain access can lead to decent blasting).
Their best blasting spells are stuff like Flame Strike, which is a 4th level spell. They don't get complimentary Wall of Fire or Cone of Cold, heck Scorching Ray is pretty brutal too. Call Lightning is just plain bad, and Chain Lightning is the endgame. (I don't even think they GET Chain Lightning that's how sad it is.)
They don't have many CC spells, especially early on. The two spells cited are probably their best CC spells, and I believe they are 2nd and 4th respectively. We can always say their summons are a type of CC, but at best they're cannon fodder for the mooks to eat up or waste turns on.
Having a very limited domain spectrum makes the animal companion seem like a god. Sure, you get access to some spells you don't normally have, but they're 1/day and that's all. At best you can transform spells to summons, but we're back to square 1, which is buffs, buffs, and more buffs followed by Wild Shape and slaughtering everything.
Druid casters are awesome, they just require a bit more imagination. They get spells no other class (or just ranger) has access to. Feather Step was mentioned above and it was insanely useful in Reign of Winter where we were dealing with difficult terrain frequently. Wilderness Soldiers is one of the coolest spells I've seen, it literally brings the trees and shrubs to life to attack your enemies. I was stuck with no ranged weapon at one point in a game and getting attacked by a flying something or other so I summoned a Stirge to go after it. All of these were at low levels too.
Play him as a summoner.
If you use say a 20 point buy (I've always seen 15 and 25 point buys, no 20, but it is a half way point so I'm using it) Starting off a Druid Elf.
Str 12
Dex 14 (12+2)
Con 12 (14-2)
Int 14
Wis 18 (16+2)
Cha 7
Maybe switch out some of the Elf racial traits for stuff that would help you stay alive as a caster. Take the Animal Domain so you get the extra spells and the Animal companion at 4th, or maybe Storm if you really want to blast. Do the best you can with low level spells and remember, most casters are weak at lower levels. You can exist as an animal summoner for the first few levels, and between that and a few decent spells be fairly effective. Remember that a summoner grows in effectiveness each round.
With retraining now in the game, I think the best bet might be using an Animal Companion for the beginning of the game and switching to a Domain later, when it matters more.
Opens the door to a whole new flood of optimization guides, doesn't it? I suppose that's good. Maybe. I can maybe fix my borked Alchemist now.
i love druid my problem is that i never see any magic items that really do any thing for the class
i mean yes you have your ring of pro and amulet of NA but every one in the group want them. and normally casters are the last you get them in my group.(it all go's to the tanks)
that being said i don't need a magic weapon because you tank in wild shape armor go out the window to till you can buy you wild(it never drops you have to buy)
if scrolls do drop or a wand it normally for the wiz (which is rare in my group even for them)
for some reason when it come to magic items druid seem to be left in the cold.
dose this seem to be true for you guys that play druid a lot or are they hiding all the good druid items i know a lot of higher level druid make there own
i love druid my problem is that i never see any magic items that really do any thing for the class
i mean yes you have your ring of pro and amulet of NA but every one in the group want them. and normally casters are the last you get them in my group.(it all go's to the tanks)
that being said i don't need a magic weapon because you tank in wild shape armor go out the window to till you can buy you wild(it never drops you have to buy)
if scrolls do drop or a wand it normally for the wiz (which is rare in my group even for them)
for some reason when it come to magic items druid seem to be left in the cold.
dose this seem to be true for you guys that play druid a lot or are they hiding all the good druid items i know a lot of higher level druid make there own
No, how you get your magical items, and what you get, is table specific.
At my table, we now have a wizard that specializes in magic item creation. So no problem there.
Otherwise, we are usually allowed to buy what we need, at least the cheap(er) stuff, and you can find many good, cheap, magical items.
For example the Quick Runner's Shirt, a chest slot item, costing 1000gp. You can, once a day, activate it with a swift action to gain a move action. That is pretty much insanely good value, especially for non-summoner summoners.
If you have an insane GM, then you could argue that a slotless version, with unlimited uses, of that item, cost 10000gp (1000*5*2). Extra move action all day long? For 10000? Yes please! Easiest purchase ever.
Of course it is a swift action, so you couldn't cast quickened spells at the same time. Still awesome, and far too cheap.
i do get that it table specific but where is are monk robes or holy AV
or assassin dagger etc were are are good druid class only items
To really understand the place of Druid casting, you have to differentiate it from other magic both philosophically and artistically. If cleric casting is a prayer, and wizard casting is science, where does that leave Druid casting?
I posit that Druid casting is poetry. It has syntax and rhyme, each Druid spell is part of a larger whole, lines soundless and coarse until placed in the context of it's stanza.
Take the plant domain, one of the most iconic Druid domains, and one of the domains almost entirely populated by Druid spells:
Domain Spells: 1st—entangle, 2nd—barkskin, 3rd—plant growth, 4th—command plants, 5th—wall of thorns, 6th—repel wood, 7th—animate plants, 8th—control plants, 9th—shambler.
I have heard the Plant domain spell list described as one of the least powerful, and most incidental. That is because the Plant Domain is not meant to be nine different spells, it is one single spell. Wall of Thorns is a fine spell, creating a cage of thorns that bite you unless you remain perfectly still. Suddenly, Entangle. The thorns begin to twist and constrict with reckless abandon, becoming a meat grinder made of vines. You animate the Entangling Wall of Thorns, turning it into a massive plant monster or a collection of smaller monsters. You Command and Control your massive Animated Entangling Wall of Thorns. You can empower every numerical value involved with your Controlled and Commanded Animated Entangling Wall of Thorns by four with Plant Growth. Because of the peculiar definitions of plant creatures as objects, you can drop your Controlled and Commanded Animated Entangling Plant Growth Wall of Thorns on a wary target from a distance with Repel Wood after they have been grabbed and constricted by the Shambling Mounds summoned by the Shambler spell.