ToB: Bo9S to balance existing martial classes


Homebrew and House Rules

Liberty's Edge

What would people think of the martial classes having an option to use their bonus feats (or feat equivalents, like rogue talents) for martial maneuvers (and an initiator level = class level) from schools that thematically fit the class?

Like a monk may get access to shadow hand or stone dragon while a rogue might gain access to tiger claw or shadow hand. And would that even really be an increase in power if it took up the monk's bonus feats or the rogue's tricks?


I would say its a very good idea. Exactly how much one should get for a feat or trick on the other hand is a question that would require alot of playtesting.


One maneuver per feat. Martial Study.
One stance per feat. Martial Stance.

You can take maneuvers and stances from any discipline whenever you have a feat (or in the case of the Fighter, a bonus combat feat) available.

Up to 3 times for Martial Study or as many times as you have feats for Martial Stance (must have at least one maneuver from a discipline to choose a stance from that discipline.

If anything, update the martial adept classes to have favored class bonuses of something on the scale of 1/3 of a new maneuver known, prepared, or a new stance known. There's not many maneuvers that I'd be willing to spend a single fighter feat for to gain a single maneuver. Stances, different, as the benefits of a stance are continuous whereas a maneuver can only be used ONCE unless you have levels in one of the 3 martial adept classes.

Liberty's Edge

Currently I am thinking one to one ratio, but not limiting it to the 3 limit of taking martial study, since this will just be a class feature added to the classes. They would also be able to gain the martial study feat to take maneuvers from other schools.

I'm actually considering letting the monk take it in place of quigon powers rather than just feats. Currently the 4 classes I'm working on are cavalier, rogue / ninja, fighter, and monk. Maybe something for ranger. . . Do any of the other classes really need it?


I have readapted BOS9 to my campaign and now call it Blade Magic. I was hoping to finsish it but the amount of Homebrew disciplines were staggering on the web. I tried to make an inclusive list of them all and their powers. This is as far as I got with it which you are welcome to borrow from. Blade Magic .


inkedmsd wrote:
I have readapted BOS9 to my campaign and now call it Blade Magic. I was hoping to finsish it but the amount of Homebrew disciplines were staggering on the web. I tried to make an inclusive list of them all and their powers. This is as far as I got with it which you are welcome to borrow from. Blade Magic .

I'm not able to go and look at the page just yet, so let me ask this question: What changes did you make to the classes themselves (if you can sum them up here)?

Thanks.


The BO9S classes or other classes taking disciplines? For a non BO9S class they have to take the Blade Magic Study feat to gain access to one discipline. Certain classes can only access certain disciplines. To gain stances the class has to take Blade Magic Stance feat. If you lack any martial adept levels, your initiator level is equal to 1/2 your character level. I made some changes to the the disciplines themselves to make them increase in power as you gain levels. Does that answer your question at all? Let me know.


What I would do is simply add ToB progressions and recovery mechanics to Fighters, Rogues, Ninja, Monks, Rangers, Paladins, and Barbarians.

Barbarians, Paladins, and Rangers would get the least. Perhaps half of what one of the ToB classes get.

Rogues, Monks, and Ninja should get the fully amount.

Fighters probably somewhere inbetween.

You could optionally trade some class features, I suppose, but the main point is to provide some increased flexibility to get these classes up to Tier 3, imho.


inkedmsd wrote:
The BO9S classes or other classes taking disciplines? For a non BO9S class they have to take the Blade Magic Study feat to gain access to one discipline. Certain classes can only access certain disciplines. To gain stances the class has to take Blade Magic Stance feat. If you lack any martial adept levels, your initiator level is equal to 1/2 your character level. I made some changes to the the disciplines themselves to make them increase in power as you gain levels. Does that answer your question at all? Let me know.

Yep. Thanks!


Dot for great interest


Barb/ pal/ ranger = crusader progression, fighter = war blade progression, and rogue/ monk/ ninja = (the other one... Drawing a blank here). There is your full/ med/ half progression as was intended in the original material.

You could have prohibited schools like a wizard, but everything else would port about evenly.

The biggest problem you are going to face is that casters will be woefully under balanced for the first half of your game. At later lvls it should get back in line, but getting there may be a problem.


Swordsage is the Monk-like one.

Liberty's Edge

Thematically though the swordsage knows more maneuvers and from more disciplines than the warblade. If we just tack swordsage onto rogue and warblade onto fighter, it seems that the rogue becomes much more a master of combat than the warblade. (Middle base attack bonus hurts, of course, but c'est la vie.) It is something to think about though.


That's why you would have prohibited schools. Stone dragon is not a "roguey" school, for instance.


Here is my breakdown of Base Class access to BO9S disciplines & stances.

Liberty's Edge

inkedmsd wrote:

Here is my breakdown of Base Class access to BO9S disciplines & stances.

I wish like crap I'd found your page back when I was trying to do an Innistrad world of my own. Totally favorite placing your site. :)


What I ended up settling on in my homebrew campaign:

Fighter, gains choice of Crusader's or Warblade's Maneuvers/stances, may select Warblade and Crusader Class Features with bonus feats.

Monk, Full BAB, gains Swordsage maneuvers/stances, may select Swordsage class features with bonus feats.

Cavalier, gains Crusader Maneuvers/stances.

Rogue, Full BAB, may select martial stance/study as Rogue talents an unlimited number of times, when doing so treats Rogue level as initiator level for Shadow Hand and Tiger Claw. All (EX) Rogue talents that have limited uses per day become at will abilities.


ShadowCatX wrote:
I wish like crap I'd found your page back when I was trying to do an Innistrad world of my own. Totally favorite placing your site. :)

Thanks Shadow! We should start a new thread as I would love to flesh it out more! Let me know.

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