Crusader Kings 2: And I thought Total War was Hard!


Video Games

Radiant Oath

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I recently got Crusader Kings II for sale on Steam and I've found that it's INCREDIBLY complicated, much more than I'd ever seen in any Total War game. I've tried the tutorial, but it feels rather clunky and theoretical, with no real hands-on practice like in the Total War games.

Has anyone played these games? I'd like any advice I can so I can get the hang of this game, which seems incredibly rich and complex, almost too complex.

Thank you for your advice.

Sovereign Court

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It's an entirely different thing to the Total War games, so some confusion at first is understandable! Paradox are not known for their solid tutorials, sadly. Luckily, Crusader Kings 2 is one of the easier Paradox games to get to grips with. (Seriously, try understanding Hearts of Iron 3's Order of Battle system.)

Firstly, don't go and start as the Holy Roman Emprah. You'll quickly get overwhelmed which just how much you have to do. Instead, I'd suggest going for an Irish Duke. They're all independent, they don't get bothered by anyone (most of the time) and you can learn the ropes of the game on your own little island. It also gives you an achievable goal to set yourself, becoming the King of Ireland.

Start slowly. Get your character married (make sure to check your wife's traits and any alliances you get. You don't want a wife with bad congenital traits, as those can pass onto your children and make life rather hard for you in future!) then start planning your wars. You'll need a Casus Belli in order to attack other lands, you can't just march your troops in. So set about fabricating one!

Check this beginners guide, as well as this series on YouTube.

Radiant Oath

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

That's just it. I'm not sure what to do to start. Apart from marrying someone, I don't know how to proceed. It's a problem I have with sandboxy kinds of games. If I don't have a direction to go in, I won't go anywhere. I like the idea of creating the Empire of Brittania as it says you can do, but I'm not sure HOW to do that. Or even how to become King of Wales or something.


Sorry, no offence, but I found the line "and I thought Total War was hard" hilarious. :)

*ahem*

Anyway! Yes, Crusader Kings II is in an entirely different ballpark than the Total War series, and I agree that the complexity can be quite daunting at first, especially if you're not really into that sort of thing.

If you're feeling impatient, the Paradox forums are a good place to ask for specific advice or look for 'how to start' guides. But personally, I found it easier to just dive into the game and give it a try. The first few games might not go awesomely well, but you will pick up the mechanics soon enough.

The CK style games are more of a long-term investment than a quick thrill though. It takes some time and some patience to get the most out of them.

It's not for everyone, but I do hope you will have a great time with it. :)

Sovereign Court

Usually, You need to control 50% of the land of the title you wish to usurp/create, as well as have two titles of the rank immediately below the title you wish to usurp/create. So to become King of Wales, you need to control 50% of Wales and hold two Welsh Duchies.

To become Emperor of Britannia, you need to hold two Kingdoms, such as Wales and England, as well as hold 80% of the land in the Empire. You also need to be of the right culture.


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PC GAMER are doing a game-playing diary for CK2. They're using the GAME OF THRONES mod, but there's some good info there on how to start a game and try to expand your power.


Paradox games are my favorite, more so than the Civ series (was has degenerated since CivCTP). HoI 3 I haven't tried yet (due to graphics card death), but that will correct itself within 2 or 3 weeks' time.

The nice thing is, at least once upon a time, it was theoretically possible to chain CK --> EU --> Victoria --> HoI. How intact that is with the current iterations of the four series I do not know.

Liberty's Edge

I'm necro-ing this because I got CK2 recently and it's SO GOOOOOD. Has anyone else been playing it recently?


I own it and some of the expansions, but I have not played it recently. It is a fun game.


lucky7 wrote:
I'm necro-ing this because I got CK2 recently and it's SO GOOOOOD. Has anyone else been playing it recently?

Steam puts me at over 400 hours played. I started a game just before Conclave came out and it's continuing, with the usual sort of bizarre head-shaking incidents that you get in CK2 - Jewish vikings, the king of Lithuania obsessed with conquering Iceland, Rome in the hands of Magyar pagans, some Indian guy appears to be getting close to unifying the whole area, and the Scottish invasion of Denmark; all in the 970s.

Liberty's Edge

ONE of my favorite stories like was how this group of Visigoths who were Jihadded out of Spain ended up in Ireland, eventually founding Brittania.

And then the Aztecs came...

Scarab Sages

Turin the Mad wrote:

Paradox games are my favorite, more so than the Civ series (was has degenerated since CivCTP). HoI 3 I haven't tried yet (due to graphics card death), but that will correct itself within 2 or 3 weeks' time.

The nice thing is, at least once upon a time, it was theoretically possible to chain CK --> EU --> Victoria --> HoI. How intact that is with the current iterations of the four series I do not know.

There is a DLC that allows you to move from Crusader Kings II to Europa Universalis IV. There isn't a compatible iteration of Victoria, but there is a ner Hearts of Iron coming, so maybe the chain will continue.


The only DLCs that I have are The Old Gods, Legacy of Rome, The Republic, Sword of Islam, and Sunset Invasion.

Also, Steam is having a sale on Crusader Kings II and most of the DLCs.


I liked CK2, but it can be a very frustrating RNG game. My Norse Pagan Rome World Conquest run almost got derailed at the 11th hour while I was invading the last of India when my Strong Genius 19 year old king dropped dead, then his Strong Genius 17 year old brother dropped dead a year later, then his Genius brother dropped dead a year or two after that, and I ended up finishing the run with a 60 year old genius uncle that was barely able to keep the realm together.

EU4 is a bit less RNG focused in many ways (including the every annoying revolts), and I've been focused on that ever since.

I did have a lot of fun though sailing around the world attacking and burning down any holding that had a strong or genius woman of child-birthing age though, to continue my eugenics program.


Sharoth wrote:

The only DLCs that I have are The Old Gods, Legacy of Rome, The Republic, Sword of Islam, and Sunset Invasion.

Also, Steam is having a sale on Crusader Kings II and most of the DLCs.

Charlemagne is very good, especially if you like a game that can run along more 'historical' lines as it's got a lot of scripted events with it. Though sometimes they get derailed, thinking of the time Charles and Carloman killed each other in a duel.

Horse Lords is pretty much the best representation of the steppe nomads that's been done, but the raiding mechanic is horrible if you're a neighbour since the stacks get large and replenish faster than your troops can, and even if you beat one off there doesn't seem to be much that prevents a tribe sending another three or four at you.

Way of Life is decent enough now that it's been patched to make some of the character focuses less, ah, excessively useful. Conclave seems like it would be pretty good for someone playing a vassal, though it's less significant at the moment for an independent ruler unless you're raising children; it's also added a 'Shattered Retreat' mechanic that's not terribly popular, since defeated armies can escape far faster than you can pursue and can't be intercepted easily.

Liberty's Edge

I don't have Conclave, but I'm still dealing with Shattered Retreat. Think it's a part of the new patch.


Watch Arumba on Youtube since he is doing a mulyiplayer in ck2 with conclave. He also did a tutorial for ck2 as an irish count in the past.

Liberty's Edge

Arumba's tutorial series convinced me to buy the game. It's great.

Liberty's Edge

So I tried to become Saoshyant. That didn't end well.


After looking at this thread I went ahead and bought the game. I seem to just constantly struggle. I bought the Old Gods expansion, and I started in Ireland but I can't ever seem to get to attack. All the other counties get invited to fight the Norse in England, so it takes me decades to get the 100 piety to declare war against someone fighting against infidels.


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This Crusader Kings II Tutorial might help out a little MeanDM.


Another tutorial, Part I.

And Part II of the series


You might also want to watch a few of the Lets Play series on YouTube.


Thank you! I'll take a look at it. I really like the intricacies of dynastic loyalty and realistic succession paradigms. I'll keep at it.


Also, does anyone with Old Gods have a good suggestion for a slow paced beginning area to try running a Viking county or duchy?

Liberty's Edge

The best ones I found were Svitjod (Bjorn Ironside) and Nidaros (Fairhair), with Nidaros being the superior choice.


Thank you. I'll try those.

Liberty's Edge

Best. Game. Evar.


MeanDM wrote:
Also, does anyone with Old Gods have a good suggestion for a slow paced beginning area to try running a Viking county or duchy?

Depending on what you mean by slow-paced, you might try Rurik of Novgorod. Your neighbours are weaker than you, there's a fairly easy route to forming a kingdom, and you can do quite a bit of viking around on the rivers if you want to. Dyre the Stranger down in Kiev is quite similar, though I think a little harder due to having some nasty neighbours.


Perfect! Yeah. I tried a couple of spots, but the aggression level of the surrounding counties kinda kept me from planning as well as I need to since I'm so new.

I tried Jarl Whiteshirt of Jorvik who started with a large army, but also a war with both Northumbria and Mercia. Plus the king of Scotland attacking Northumbria. All I was doing was moving my army around chasing everyone else. I just wasn't ready for handling that and learning the game's complexities.

Then I tried a count in Southern Sweden or Denmark. I forgot which, but everyone around me went on immediate war footing.

The Rus tribes might be interesting anyway. They always seem to get left behind when people talk about Vikings.


I haven't really tried Crusader Kings, but if the territory capture mechanics are anything like Europa Universalis, it is way more important to camp soldiers on territory than to kill the enemy troops. One of the biggest ways of exploiting the AI is to get them to chase 1 army around while you camp another on some territory.


If you try one of the earlier starts in Scandinavia or Russia then most provinces will be tribal and only have one settlement to take (there are exceptions). And that will be a tribal hill fort of no great strength. I think it also makes battles increase the war score by quite a bit more than in EU4, so they're more decisive. You can face wars where you have to siege down provinces, but they're not too common in my experience.

Liberty's Edge

Yeah. It's fun fighting tribals, not so much being them for me.


lucky7 wrote:
Yeah. It's fun fighting tribals, not so much being them for me.

I think you described human expansionism...


I found another great place to start for beginners in the Charlamaign DLC. The petty kingdom of Kent. You start out with just sovereignty over the ducal seat of Kent, but with an already de jure claim over Sussex and another county. I'm having my second best playthrough yet. I'm currently playing the son of the original ruler, but unfortunately he's taken a vow of chastity. I've got 2 half sisters, and one of those can inherit the throne of Kent, but my other half sister is providing me sovereignty to one of the Scottish borderlands county. When my current ruler dies it'll get split so now I'm trying to assassinate the half sister who is set to inherit the Scottish county to bring it back in the fold.

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