Making a Force Weapon


Homebrew and House Rules


OK I have a friend in one of the games I play in trying to make a Force Bladed sword and he asked me for help. He and I have been been talking to the GM and have all agreed that it will require both the Craft Rod and Craft Magic Arms and Armor feats, as well as the spell Spiritual weapon.

The problem we are running into is on Pricing. None of us really have an idea on an appropriate cost to make this so the GM asked me to post here (neither the other player or our GM really are computer people but I talk about the forums so they thought why not use them).

Basically it is a Bastard Sword but the blade is made out of Magical Force instead of a normal material so it will be ignoring DR of any kind and is able to hit etheral and out of phase creatures. The DM also is throwing in the usage benefits of the Sunblades bastard sword/short sword transparency for free.

While this is similar to a +0 Ghost Touch bastard sword (yes I know standard weapons cannot be +0 but this has no bonus on hit or damage) it also is skipping DR and that is where we are failing at cost estimation. While bypassing DR is really nice, this can be shut down by anti magic or dispel suppression.

What would you think would be a balance street price on such an item?


All magic weapons can be shut down by antimagic or dispel suppression; that's not a downside that should be included in the price estimation. The closest thing to "Ignore all DR" is the Transmuting special property from the Magic Item Compendium. The weapon automatically transforms to overcome any DR, which is nice - however, it transforms one round after the character has already hit the creature (and had its damage reduced accordingly on all attacks in that round). Also, it can only overcome one kind of DR at a time. I would say that removing all of the limitations on the Transmuting property would increase the bonus by 2, making it a total of a +4. Then, you just add Ghost Touch on top of that for a total bonus of +5.


Ran it by the GM and they said to go with 32,000 after relating your post. She thinks not having to attune on the first round is balanced with losing a +1 constant hit and damge for her game.

Thanks for the advise.


so...this is a lightsaber?


Gilfalas wrote:

Ran it by the GM and they said to go with 32,000 after relating your post. She thinks not having to attune on the first round is balanced with losing a +1 constant hit and damge for her game.

Thanks for the advise.

Sounds good to me. +4 and +5 are both reasonable options. Glad I could help!


+5 Toaster wrote:
so...this is a lightsaber?

Maybe, sorta, kinda, yeah but no? :)

Dark Archive

3.5 had it as a +2 enhancement


Wouldn't this ignore hardness as well?


+5 Toaster wrote:
Wouldn't this ignore hardness as well?

Does magical force ignore Hardness? I was under the impression that it didn't.

While the hardness would not be double against it like it is against most elemental attacks I don't see anything in the general description of Magical Force that would ignore Hardness, which is similar to but not the same as DR.

Under magic damage it does specify that magic damage ignores DR.

Name Violation wrote:
3.5 had it as a +2 enhancement

What supplement was that in may I ask?

Dark Archive

Gilfalas wrote:
+5 Toaster wrote:
Wouldn't this ignore hardness as well?

Does magical force ignore Hardness? I was under the impression that it didn't.

While the hardness would not be double against it like it is against most elemental attacks I don't see anything in the general description of Magical Force that would ignore Hardness, which is similar to but not the same as DR.

Under magic damage it does specify that magic damage ignores DR.

Name Violation wrote:
3.5 had it as a +2 enhancement
What supplement was that in may I ask?

Magic item compendium


Gilfalas wrote:
+5 Toaster wrote:
Wouldn't this ignore hardness as well?

Does magical force ignore Hardness? I was under the impression that it didn't.

While the hardness would not be double against it like it is against most elemental attacks I don't see anything in the general description of Magical Force that would ignore Hardness, which is similar to but not the same as DR.

Under magic damage it does specify that magic damage ignores DR.

Name Violation wrote:
3.5 had it as a +2 enhancement
What supplement was that in may I ask?

But if it's bypassing DR on it's own merits instead of being "supernaturally sharp/hard" because of the enhancement bonus'.I guess, for clarity, how does this mechanically compare to brilliant energy weapons?

Dark Archive

its energy damage, it doesnt bypass DR, and RAW objects take half damage from energy, then add hardness

against non objects, you bypass all dr. if they have force resistance then that applies


Vadskye wrote:
All magic weapons can be shut down by antimagic or dispel suppression; that's not a downside that should be included in the price estimation.

This is 99% correct in that magic item properties are shut down, but in this case, the weapon would literally cease to be a weapon at all in the case of anti-magic. THAT, I feel should be considered, even if lightly.


Foghammer wrote:
This is 99% correct in that magic item properties are shut down, but in this case, the weapon would literally cease to be a weapon at all in the case of anti-magic. THAT, I feel should be considered, even if lightly.

If we wanted to be really picky, we could discount the cost by an amount equal to the price of a masterwork weapon of the same type...


Name Violation wrote:

its energy damage, it doesnt bypass DR, and RAW objects take half damage from energy, then add hardness

against non objects, you bypass all dr. if they have force resistance then that applies

i guess i didn't read it right, i assumed he had it bypass dr as a special ability.


+5 Toaster wrote:
Name Violation wrote:

its energy damage, it doesnt bypass DR, and RAW objects take half damage from energy, then add hardness

against non objects, you bypass all dr. if they have force resistance then that applies

i guess i didn't read it right, i assumed he had it bypass dr as a special ability.

The concept is a sword weapon where the blade is formed of magical force (Magic Missle, Force Wall, Force Lance, etc).

Magical Force Damage DOES bypass Damage Resisteance (but now object Hardness) since it is a type magic energy damage and not Slashing, Piercing or Bludgeoning damage.

The weapon would hit incorporeal for the same reason any spell with Magical Force type would, because magical force effects hit both planes simultaneously.

Name Violation wrote:
Gilfalas wrote:
What supplement was that in may I ask?
Magic item compendium

Ah, the 'Force' ranged weapon property. I supposed adapting it to melee would not be too far of a stretch.


So the equivalent effects of a +4 adamantine ghost touch, but without the extra hardness, bonus to hit and damage, and completely ceases to exist in antimagic.


+5 Toaster wrote:
So the equivalent effects of a +4 adamantine ghost touch, but without the extra hardness, bonus to hit and damage, and completely ceases to exist in antimagic.

No. It has no bonus to hit and damage so it is not +4.

It does not ignore hardness of any value at all so it is not adamantine.
It does ignore DR (which is distinct and different from material Hardness) as does any Magical Force effect as well as striking incorporeal creatures. The blade is Magical Force energy as per the rulebook definition. It is a magical energy type and nowhere have I seen that magical force ignores object Hardness.

Otherwise it does Bastard Sword damage, 1d10.

But yes it would be supressed in an anti magic area and can be suppressed with a targeted dispel for the appripriate time period.

That make it clearer?


so what about a ranged magical force weapon. Would it have the same properties as the melee weapon: ie These weapons ignore DR and can strike incorporeal creatures. They can be suppressed in an anti magic area or by a targeted dispel?

What if the force weapon had an energy source that powered it? Would that make it cumbersome using it because you had to recharge it all the time or would that make it more balanced?


Is this basically a brilliant energy weapon + force damage then? (like gundam blades except not fire?)


just a ranged version of brilliant energy weapon. No force damage.


If you call it a +3 enhancement for bypassing DR, and +1 for Ghost Touch, it should still be considered +5 for pricing, since those powers are 'priced' based on an at least +1 weapon. You could call it 48000 (+5 minus 2000 for no enhancement bonus).

Unless it's affected by SR - then 32000 seems about right. Also, if you were really just looking for force and the whole DR thing is a side issue, DR would apply if you label it slashing damage. (Recently clarified in FAQ).


... ring of force shield is only 4k IIRC.

And its almost EXACTLY what he wants, only in a different shape.

Force weapons would suck though, because with no weight means no momentum.

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