Hitdice's post does lead to a glaring question, though: if lead paint is all it takes to block scrying, and if lead remains as cheap as the rulebooks state (which I still think is absurd, given its supposed usefulness), then why isn't all armor painted with lead paint? Then all armored people in the entire campaign world are immune to scrying. That's a LOT worse than some kobolds in a cave being immune, because it becomes mobile as well. But no one can wear a two-foot thickness of stone around, unless they're maybe The Thing.
I assume that the lead stops line of effect to where you can create the magical sensor, not that anything beyond lead becomes invisible when you scry. This is of course just extrapolation, but I think if you scryed on someone in a lead armor, you'd see them in the lead armor, because the sensor doesn't have to go inside them.
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Because of cancer.No rules for lead toxicity are provided (and people pooh-poohed my concerns about it to begin with).
Sleeping in heavy armor fatigues you. There are no rules for sleep deprivation, so the solution to avoid being caught unarmored during the night, is never sleep. Unless your GM has a brain inside his thick skull, that is.
Sleeping in heavy armor fatigues you.
So paint a cloak! (P.S. I don't allow this, but wondering why lead-proponent people wouldn't. And my home game does have rules for sleep deprivation.)
In relation to what I said in this post, I've never seen a discussion on raising an army of animated dead have the argument "well onyxes are a limited resource so price would go up if people did that".
Sleeping in heavy armor fatigues you. There are no rules for sleep deprivation, so the solution to avoid being caught unarmored during the night, is never sleep. Unless your GM has a brain inside his thick skull, that is.Because of cancer.No rules for lead toxicity are provided (and people pooh-poohed my concerns about it to begin with).
Yeah, and the wizard takes 1d6 fire damage when casting burning hands as long as the DM has a skull.
What is the problem with shield master?
By a strict reading of the RAW, you never take a penalty to attack with shields if you have it, at all. Including TWF, Power Attack etc etc etc. Greater TWF attacks with a shield and Power Attack will be at full BAB, even if you lack weapon proficiency (heavy shield)
In relation to what I said in this post, I've never seen a discussion on raising an army of animated dead have the argument "well onyxes are a limited resource so price would go up if people did that".
The tricky part of that, is you don't need a certain mass of onyx, just a certain price paid. So now you have to pay 50gp for, say, an onyx of 1 ounce, when the onyx price go up you pay 50gp for an onyx of 1/2 an ounce, and then 50gp for 1/4 of an ounce, and so on. The price hike in onyx (and other material component like diamond dust) affect anyone *else* but the casters, they just need to pay the same fixed amount of gold.
The tricky part of that, is you don't need a certain mass of onyx, just a certain price paid. So now you have to pay 50gp for, say, an onyx of 1 ounce, when the onyx price go up you pay 50gp for an onyx of 1/2 an ounce, and then 50gp for 1/4 of an ounce, and so on. The price hike in onyx (and other material component like diamond dust) affect anyone *else* but the casters, they just need to pay the same fixed amount of gold.In relation to what I said in this post, I've never seen a discussion on raising an army of animated dead have the argument "well onyxes are a limited resource so price would go up if people did that".
Fair enough. However, it's still a limited resource and can run out, and unlike lead there's no chance of recycling. So how come noone mentions the risk of onyxes running out?
Kirth:
IMO, Ilja has it. Scry-proofing a room is one matter, but they can still see through windows, open doors, etc or listen to sounds with the right perception check or spell. For total protection you would need spells to ward against sound and light traveling out of the room that a scry spell could pick up from outside. An open window in a lead-lined room is an invitation for failure. :D
If you're fully encased in a lead-lined room + door, that might make you hard to find (assuming you never leave). However armor isn't necessarily fully encasing in quite the same way, and your GM may rule that can still be found, let alone watched from a non-blocked location (once they find you, they can scry on you from 1 meter away with impunity). My calculations above were assuming lead that's .1 inches thick in all-encasing sheets that cover the walls in all directions. If you're wearing armor encased in that much lead, it might prevent you from being found, but not spied upon once found.
And lead isn't great for armor: it's heavy (44% heavier than iron), soft & easily damaged, possibly toxic in contact with skin and near your eyes & nose, etc. But I imagine a character could pull it off, e.g. crafting the armor with .1 inches of lead inside the armor plating (where it won't touch skin and won't be on outside where it would be scraped off). But I don't know whether that actually works well, or if it could compromise the effectiveness of the armor's first job (keeping you safe from blades and hammers). At the very least, we're talking a special crafting roll and possibly some mobility penalties (not from weight, but from awkward encumbrance from thicker armor custom-made to accommodate this addition). Or armor with the "fragile" condition, as impacts easily damage the layer of thin, soft lead inside.
So I imagine that's why you don't see every fighter in the world running around in lead armor.
That is, unless you can simply lead-paint-deluge everything, and re-paint after every battle. I imagine "thin sheet of lead" means at least tin foil or thicker. But that's for someone else to discuss.
Man we're far off topic... ;) Maybe this tangential discussion could be continued in the rules forum.
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Because of cancer.No rules for lead toxicity are provided (and people pooh-poohed my concerns about it to begin with).Sleeping in heavy armor fatigues you. There are no rules for sleep deprivation, so the solution to avoid being caught unarmored during the night, is nev
sleep. Unless your GM has a brain inside his thick skull, that is.
Well, you live in a world where cancer is the least of your concerns. Its not a disease in golaruon. Mummy rot is.having your rump turn into a spider at night is. Having your feet become goop is.
Espy: That's what I figured. So hugging my plutonium-lined wand of cure light wounds isn't necessarily a bad thing (its warm glow makes me feel safe!). Other horrible things will kill me much sooner, and radiation disease/poisoning can be cured.
Now my +4 Radiant Codpiece of Conversation, on the other hand...
And lead isn't great for armor: it's heavy (44% heavier than iron), soft & easily damaged, possibly toxic in contact with skin and near your eyes & nose, etc. But I imagine a character could pull it off, e.g. crafting the armor with .1 inches of lead inside the armor plating (where it won't touch skin and won't be on outside where it would be scraped off). But I don't know whether that actually works well, or if it could compromise the effectiveness of the armor's first job (keeping you safe from blades and hammers). At the very least, we're talking a special crafting roll and possibly some mobility penalties (not from weight, but from awkward encumbrance from thicker armor custom-made to accommodate this addition). Or armor with the "fragile" condition, as impacts easily damage the layer of thin, soft lead inside.So I imagine that's why you don't see every fighter in the world running around in lead armor.
Well, duh, that's why I said heavy armor. :P
Excuse me, I thought we were talking about my oversized magical codpiece now? How rude.
Ahem. As I was saying, not only does it grant a huge bonus to Bluff and Intimidate, but it's a natural conversation starter! And it can cast Fascinate three times per day. Though I've been having this painful burning sensation while it's active. I've been meaning to have someone look at it... hey! Where are you all going?!
Edit:
Espy: That's cool. How did they work?
otherwise known as the pathfinder pouch
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Lamontius:
"Pathfinder pouch" refers to the backpack and not the codpiece?
More seriously:
I suspect most people don't wear lead-treated clothes, even if they're affordable and relatively non-toxic, for the same reason that most people don't wear tin-foil hats, or bundle up for winter weather at the beach. Or install a firewall and antivirus on their computer. Or use strong passwords, etc.
Most people aren't worried about being scried, or they don't realize it's important and preventable. But the king with many enemies, or the hunted criminal, will be wearing it as one of several overlapping layers of protection (including anti-scry spells and magic items, and safe rooms where he can go and not be watched). And you can bet that any self-respecting vampire or lich will lead-line his coffin/sarcophagus/phylactery/tomb/pets/everything else. There are some places or things you don't want anyone finding with a common spell. ;)
Though sometimes a "no" is more informative than a "yes", especially for an adventuring party wandering around examining things. Why would this one coffin have so much protection? Or, Why can't I see into that room? What's going on in there?
Fair enough. However, it's still a limited resource and can run out, and unlike lead there's no chance of recycling. So how come noone mentions the risk of onyxes running out?The tricky part of that, is you don't need a certain mass of onyx, just a certain price paid. So now you have to pay 50gp for, say, an onyx of 1 ounce, when the onyx price go up you pay 50gp for an onyx of 1/2 an ounce, and then 50gp for 1/4 of an ounce, and so on. The price hike in onyx (and other material component like diamond dust) affect anyone *else* but the casters, they just need to pay the same fixed amount of gold.In relation to what I said in this post, I've never seen a discussion on raising an army of animated dead have the argument "well onyxes are a limited resource so price would go up if people did that".
Polymorph any object? :P
Lamontius:
"Pathfinder pouch" refers to the backpack and not the codpiece?
what the-
man I would say you put your mcguffin in there but it sounds like you already have something else occupying it
So how come noone mentions the risk of onyxes running out?
Maybe because it's a third-string limiter on undead: the first being the ability to cast the requisite spells (which disqualifies most people right there), and the second being the HD limit (I actually use limits in my game, but whatever). In any case, the onyx isn't the main limitation in the rules. Lead on the other hand requires no skill, has no limits, and is nearly free.
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Polymorph any object? :P
Fabricate is 5th level, vs Polymorph Any Object at 8th. Both are ways to ensure you have needed materials for the cost of a spell slot and some rock or other slag to transform. Probably other spells are similar to these, too. So from 9th level onward, lead scarcity isn't necessarily a blocking issue anymore (though GM can probably still intervene to some degree for campaign circumstances).
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Lamontius:
That's where the bluff bonus comes in.
It's important to be able to talk big when size matters. ;)
So how come noone mentions the risk of onyxes running out?Maybe because it's a third-string limiter on undead: the first being the ability to cast the requisite spells (which disqualifies most people right there), and the second being the HD limit (I actually use limits in my game, but whatever). In any case, the onyx isn't the main limitation in the rules. Lead on the other hand requires no skill, has no limits, and is nearly free.
Lead-lining a room will still take a craft skill (or a team of artisans that you can kill later). Fabricate tends to require a craft skill too, if you want to make a thin, uniform sheet of lead that doesn't have uneven/thin spots or holes that could compromise protection.
But in the end, this just means that scrying is not the all-powerful, all-seeing eye that people expect. There are simple countermeasures people can take, if only they would. In our world, a strong password is also important, but how many people don't have one on their accounts and computers? But Secret Evil Inc. probably does have extensive protection, especially if they've been burned in the past.
Still, there are lots of soft points in an organization, modern or medieval. The minions on patrol outside the castle are probably scry-able. As are the supply wagons and support crew that visit the castle every 2 weeks, unless those too have been heavily warded. And sometimes what you can't see is quite informative, telling you someone wanted to protect something.
Eventually someone will let slip something, if you know where to look and who to talk to. But it will often involve more than sitting at home looking into a silver mirror, hoping to find answers without moving.
See, I don't agree, because if there are a lot of challenges or very large fights, that is a lot of foes that can get past the blockers, over time, and eat the spellcasters.PF rules don't really support blocking, so intelligent foes will always focus on the casters while the mindless ones mindlessly provide the martial guys with something to do -- which is indicative of an underlying imbalance right there. But this has nothing to do with the number of encounters.
Attack of opportunity rules and using reach weapons. Protecting the casters with ranks and formations. It is not always intelligent to just focus on the casters, have you rolled a barbarian's charge on a foe trying to pick off a caster?
I do agree that casters can get really hurt even if they do have bodyguards. Numbers, flanking and teleporting/flying opponents can rip a party formation right up.
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I love the reasoning "this is cheap and easy to use so we can assume they won't use it".
To answer the original question, on ways to make martials less terrible. Comb around for really neat fighting feats (and feats for rogues too), make the world low magic (this also means that spellcasters are more unique and rare, not so commonplace, along with the big six items), get rid of wondrous item crafting and encourage them to adventure and earn those items, roll wizards and sorcerers back to d4 hit die (if they are so mighty and powerful, they can handle being the old d4, right mr wizard?) and it'll work out.
I think making casters rare without limiting PC's from being casters, as well as reducing the big six, does not really help martials - rather the reverse. Often the best anti-methods against PC casters are goon casters.
It could work, depending on how you do it, but I think for someone new at the game if they get the suggestion "if casters are too powerful, make the big six rarer" will lead to martials lagging behind even more.
Now, if they instead got a few of the big six item effects as part of their class abilities, that'd be another thing (more cash to be spent elsewhere ^^)
Hmmm... Maybe that is actually an idea btw? For example, what if fighters had the following abilities:
Resiliency (Ex): At 3rd level, a fighter gains a +1 resistance bonus to all saving throws. This increases by +1 for every three levels betyond 3rd.
Masterful Parrying (Ex): At 4th level, a fighter gains a +1 deflection bonus to AC. This increases by +1 for every three levels beyond 3rd.
And barbarians had the following abilities:
Thick Hide (Ex): At 3rd level, a barbarian gains a +1 enhancement bonus to her natural armor. This increases by +1 for every three levels beyond 3rd.
Physical Conditioning (Ex): At 4th level, a barbarian gains a +2 enhancement bonus to constitution. At 7th level, a barbarian gains a +2 enhancement bonus to both strength and dexterity. At 11th level, the bonus increases to +2/+2/+4, at 14th level to +4/+4/+4, at 17th level to +4/+4/+6, and at 20th level to +6/+6/+6.
And similar abilities for all the mundane classes, giving them two of the "big six" items for free, potentially at a little different pace than would be normally gained. This would mean they get a decent boost to their effective cash, allowing them to buy more "gadgety" stuff and stuff that mimics magic.
I think the game needs less of the big six all round, and not to attach them to martials, that only reinforces their importance and the perception they are required.
They can be avoided, I've played pathfinder modules to completion and avoided the whole six and fill my slots oh yeah baby (why would I go for the same items over and over?) There is the question of sameness to consider, and a whole lot of bland creeping into this game.
If not everything is a raging all powerful magical beast demon spellcaster in one, as paizo loves to throw out, you can do with less magic items, or stat boosting items. So for low magic don't go too high above the party level for high magic CR opponents. Course, you might throw a challenging caster at the party, and the barbarian unswaddled in the bedclothes of the big six, explodes the caster in 1-2 rounds.
Hmmm... Maybe that is actually an idea btw? For example, what if fighters had the following abilities:
Resiliency (Ex): At 3rd level, a fighter gains a +1 resistance bonus to all saving throws. This increases by +1 for every three levels betyond 3rd.Masterful Parrying (Ex): At 4th level, a fighter gains a +1 deflection bonus to AC. This increases by +1 for every three levels beyond 3rd.
And barbarians had the following abilities:
Thick Hide (Ex): At 3rd level, a barbarian gains a +1 enhancement bonus to her natural armor. This increases by +1 for every three levels beyond 3rd.Physical Conditioning (Ex): At 4th level, a barbarian gains a +2 enhancement bonus to constitution. At 7th level, a barbarian gains a +2 enhancement bonus to both strength and dexterity. At 11th level, the bonus increases to +2/+2/+4, at 14th level to +4/+4/+4, at 17th level to +4/+4/+6, and at 20th level to +6/+6/+6.
And similar abilities for all the mundane classes, giving them two of the "big six" items for free, potentially at a little different pace than would be normally gained. This would mean they get a decent boost to their effective cash, allowing them to buy more "gadgety" stuff and stuff that mimics magic.
I would like to get behind your power creep, but this is one of the thing wrong with the hobby. The idea the numbers have to be higher, the stats must be increased quicker, add more abilities that grant stat bonuses, hnnnngh!
Not my cup of tea.
Hmmm... Maybe that is actually an idea btw? For example, what if fighters had the following abilities:
Resiliency (Ex): At 3rd level, a fighter gains a +1 resistance bonus to all saving throws. This increases by +1 for every three levels betyond 3rd.Masterful Parrying (Ex): At 4th level, a fighter gains a +1 deflection bonus to AC. This increases by +1 for every three levels beyond 3rd.
And barbarians had the following abilities:
Thick Hide (Ex): At 3rd level, a barbarian gains a +1 enhancement bonus to her natural armor. This increases by +1 for every three levels beyond 3rd.Physical Conditioning (Ex): At 4th level, a barbarian gains a +2 enhancement bonus to constitution. At 7th level, a barbarian gains a +2 enhancement bonus to both strength and dexterity. At 11th level, the bonus increases to +2/+2/+4, at 14th level to +4/+4/+4, at 17th level to +4/+4/+6, and at 20th level to +6/+6/+6.
And similar abilities for all the mundane classes, giving them two of the "big six" items for free, potentially at a little different pace than would be normally gained. This would mean they get a decent boost to their effective cash, allowing them to buy more "gadgety" stuff and stuff that mimics magic.
I would like to get behind your power creep, but this is one of the thing wrong with the hobby. The idea the numbers have to be higher, the stats must be increased quicker, add more abilities that grant stat bonuses, hnnnngh!
Not my cup of tea.
Well that died in the attempt, lol.
I would like to get behind your power creep, but this is one of the thing wrong with the hobby. The idea the numbers have to be higher, the stats must be increased quicker, hnnnngh!Not my cup of tea.
Well, the thing is, with how it looks currently the martials NEED the big six, the casters WANT the big six (to a large degree that is the case at least; of course it's not an absolute).
Giving martials the effects for free won't mean the effects get higher, really - it gives them more cash, but with the amount of cash at the level they get it, it makes more sense to "broaden out" than to aim upwards.
Making martials less reliant on magical gear would allow them more freedom in how to build - not necessarily give them higher numbers in what they already have high numbers in.
Like, the fighter who doesn't have it's +4 armor is down 4 AC. The wizard who doesn't have it's bracers +4 is down a few 1st level spell slots to keep it up 24/7.
I love the reasoning "this is cheap and easy to use so we can assume they won't use it".
No one said or even implied anything vaguely similar to that. My argument was that stone was a better choice than lead as a blocking agent, for reasons of internal consistency.
There are some places or things you don't want anyone finding with a common spell. ;)
Though sometimes a "no" is more informative than a "yes", especially for an adventuring party wandering around examining things. Why would this one coffin have so much protection? Or, Why can't I see into that room? What's going on in there?
That's why you place some fake "important rooms" and such in your hideaway.
I love the reasoning "this is cheap and easy to use so we can assume they won't use it".No one said or even implied anything vaguely similar to that. My argument was that stone was a better choice than lead as a blocking agent, for reasons of internal consistency.
Sorry, I read too much into it. Since your first response started with
Me: "Lead is cheap, and if they have a stronghold you can count on every single wall having a thin cover of it. "You: "This is OK if internal consistency is totally unimportant to you."
I got the feeling that you thought even in a RAW world it would not make sense for them to use it.
I read too much into it, but I think you can see why XD
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I wanted to share something from our GM, who is already worried about the power creep in Pathfinder:
One thing to consider in powering up martials is the inevitable backlash: Everything you give to a martial character in Pathfinder will inevitably find itself in Pathfinder monsters and intelligent enemies. Our GM is frequently dismayed at the wide variability of encounter difficulty. One CR7 battle is trivial, another CR7 battle nearly TPKs because of only a couple lucky hits (with very high damage) or other problems for the party.
Our group fighting a T-Rex was facing near-one-shot kills if it managed to bite someone other than the fighter or barbarian, as only the fighter or barbarian could hope to absorb a hit and live (and never a critical hit). If the rogue or cleric was even slightly injured, one bite could end him. This was the T-Rex without Vital Strike.
Our GM says compared to D&D3, Pathfinder has a lot more swing in its battles. With ease things can rapidly and violently slide from manageable to disastrous, based heavily on what the dice do instead of what the players do. Monsters (and perhaps players) have so many feat slots and bonuses powering them up that the balance of combat is very hard to maintain, and the players are kinda pinched on the types of builds that will even be effective. At higher levels you need a certain accuracy to hit and contribute, period. Your AC must be "this high" to ride this ride (or you should cast displacement), or else you're going down on the first round of arrows. Don't even try combat maneuvers against many foes.
If you add new toys and features to player martials, then enemies will likely get all the same buffs unless you deliberately resolve to not give that to them. This includes normal monsters like a T-Rex, and intelligent enemies using the fighter or barbarian class template. And with new buffs on each side, the combat swing gets more and more unmanageable. Further, if players are owning everything they meet, increasingly dangerous monsters must be introduced to challenge them, and the fickle dice become more powerful than strategy. Power creep frequently means player deaths and TPKs are a greater risk.
Our GM has actually considered powering down some monsters or increasing their CR, because the way they work in practice is very different from the way they look on paper at first glance.
That's how our GM sees it, anyway, and I wanted to share (I think I agree a lot with the concern). Hopefully I don't get too heavily flamed for it. :)
You: "This is OK if internal consistency is totally unimportant to you."
I got the feeling that you thought even in a RAW world it would not make sense for them to use it.
I went on to explicitly explain WHY I felt that the RAW were not internally consistent, but you cut that.
I read too much into it, but I think you can see why
Because you drew your conclusion based on an opening sentence that was unclear to you out of context, rather than on the actual argument that was subsequently developed in some detail?
No, because your detailing was pretty much "lead would cost more than platinum" and "lead poisoning" which we have discussed for some pages now,
I feel at this point there is enough discussion of scrying and lead lined pants to warrant its own thread. This thread was supposed to be concerning how to improve martials.
Threadjacks are a way of life on Paizo.com! But in this case, I concur with your assessmemt.
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Wazat, the sort of buffs a fighter needs have nothing at all to do with damage and AC. Giving more enemies access to better story-defining abilities is a good thing, as it enables more kinds of plots.
Nem-Z: Agreed! That's not what was being discussed at the moment though (giving free scaling bonuses to stats for martial characters).
We should note that as we condense feat chains like Blind Fight, Cleave, Step-Up, etc (either by modifying the feats or providing class features to acquire whole chains), any NPCs the GM builds or that come with an external campaign will enjoy the same benefits (unless efforts are made to exclude them).
Likewise any stat boosts and other bonuses we grant martials to let them keep up with mages will apply. We've discussed more than just narrative and scene creation material, and we should be aware of what a scaling bonus to saves, AC, etc will do in the hands of an enemy NPC.
I wanted to share something from our GM, who is already worried about the power creep in Pathfinder:
One thing to consider in powering up martials is the inevitable backlash: Everything you give to a martial character in Pathfinder will inevitably find itself in Pathfinder monsters and intelligent enemies. Our GM is frequently dismayed at the wide variability of encounter difficulty. One CR7 battle is trivial, another CR7 battle nearly TPKs because of only a couple lucky hits (with very high damage) or other problems for the party.
Our group fighting a T-Rex was facing near-one-shot kills if it managed to bite someone other than the fighter or barbarian, as only the fighter or barbarian could hope to absorb a hit and live (and never a critical hit). If the rogue or cleric was even slightly injured, one bite could end him. This was the T-Rex without Vital Strike.
Our GM says compared to D&D3, Pathfinder has a lot more swing in its battles. With ease things can rapidly and violently slide from manageable to disastrous, based heavily on what the dice do instead of what the players do. Monsters (and perhaps players) have so many feat slots and bonuses powering them up that the balance of combat is very hard to maintain, and the players are kinda pinched on the types of builds that will even be effective. At higher levels you need a certain accuracy to hit and contribute, period. Your AC must be "this high" to ride this ride (or you should cast displacement), or else you're going down on the first round of arrows. Don't even try combat maneuvers against many foes.
If you add new toys and features to player martials, then enemies will likely get all the same buffs unless you deliberately resolve to not give that to them. This includes normal monsters like a T-Rex, and intelligent enemies using the fighter or barbarian class template. And with new buffs on each side, the combat swing gets more and more unmanageable. Further, if players are owning everything they meet, increasingly dangerous...
A good post. I wish your dm good luck. Powering down and editing sometimes has to be done.
I wanted to share something from our GM, who is already worried about the power creep in Pathfinder:
One thing to consider in powering up martials is the inevitable backlash: Everything you give to a martial character in Pathfinder will inevitably find itself in Pathfinder monsters and intelligent enemies.
On this logic PF should never publish another decent spell (or anything else good for casters) either, because it can also be used by intelligent NPC enemies.
But maybe this is just a rationale that's used with respect to martials, not meant to apply to anything else, as a reason to keep powering up casters (no inevitable backlash there, I suppose), but exclude martials. I hope it's not that kind of double-standard rationale, but I have to allow for the possibility.
On this logic PF should never publish another decent spell (or anything else good for casters) either, because it can also be used by intelligent NPC enemies.
But maybe this is just a rationale that's used with respect to martials, not meant to apply to anything else, as a reason to keep powering up casters (no inevitable backlash there, I suppose), but exclude martials. I hope it's not that kind of double-standard rationale, but I have to allow for the possibility.
Well arguecat, for the sake of argument let's consider that. Let's say PF publishes a new powerful spell that starts resulting in regular TPKs when enemies use it. It seemed like a good idea in the hands of players, but now we have to avoid letting NPCs wield this spell. But, as a spell it's not an automatic feature that spellcasters of that class have, so we can pick and choose around it.
The concern with martials is the same as with spells. A T-Rex is already hard as hell to trip or grapple because of its focus on high Str+Dex, and its bite is very dangerous. It doesn't need Vital Strike and Rage too or a bonus to its will saves, so we have to be careful what we stack onto it. Now let's consider the automatic scaling bonuses we were considering for all martials: free +2 and higher bonuses to the Big 6, and free feat chains. We should look at what that enemy fighter can do to players with that kind of power before just handing that power to the players. It goes both ways.
High-level casters will still stomp everything they look at, but martials are playing a tough game. Now that enemy fighter is even harder to trip or hit, and when he hits a martial player it does a lot of damage. We've increased the volatility of the combat swing because damage and stats have increased and the penalty for getting hit has gone up significantly. The dice are more powerful as a result.
So giving automatic stat boosts and feat chains cuts both ways when martials are facing other martials, or monsters that could benefit from the same boosts. The caster still owns everything thanks to his breadth of spells, but the martial might not.
I don't think you're understanding that problem if you're arguing that spells are the same. In a sense, new powerful spells could be worse, or they could be more of the same. It depends on how we implement the additions to martial characters and how that feels on the flip side.
The free "big 6" bonuses where tied to class level; thus, a T-rex would have no use for them (unless it's a T-rex fighter, but PC classes aren't made for monsters primarily so there's always balance issues applying them).
And I mean, a 15th level wizard is a proper CR14 encounter. A 15th level fighter is not. Since martial characters are so dependant on wealth, the lowered wealth for NPC's hurt them much more.
I agree one should be careful with solutions that are based on HD (including feats) rather than class, though. It's an important point to bring up.
However, I've gotten the feeling that at high levels, casters are the main credible threat to the party anyway?
Agreed.