I'd like to see a remake of Kingmaker that uses the new Ultimate Campaign rules. Has their been any word if this might happen?
Publisher, Chief Creative Officer
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Nope. We currently have no plans to reprint more past APs. If we do do another one, Kingmaker is probably the only post-Pathfinder RPG one we would seriously consider over something like Curse of the Crimson Throne, but it's mostly a moot point because it's too late to start something like this now anyway, and we definitely won't have it out by next summer.
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I am still of the opinion that a new Pathfinder Edition would suck. Its not necessary. They have a great system they have a great world. Given that most the important rule books are free. They are making money off support material, adventure paths, minis, paper minis, maps, and all sorts of stuff. Much of which would be made obsolete by a new edition. Which is why many people play Pathfinder because they did not want to stop playing 3.5.
If they want to do a rules super book or recombine the rules including FAQ material and so forth that would be great for new players who want to buy the books. The pathfinder special sauce is keeping their content relevant over time. For instance their first AP (made prior to the release of their game) is still selling.
As for what they should do about DND Next. I think they should keep doing what they have been doing when they see innovations in other systems roll them back into their system. If there are worthwhile features to the new system then incorporate them.
Paizo could consider putting a PDF conversion guide for APs and modules so that people who wish to may easily play pathfinder adventures with D&D rules. That will be time consuming, but the potential volume of sales increase would cover a freelance fee, if not a salary.
All monetary and sales estimates for this post were retrieved anally.
I did not read every post in this thread so I do apologize if somebody beat to the punch with this idea...
But I would do is release a Advances Gamemastery Guide.
In which I would have chapter dealing with alternative campaign ideas...like Low magic campaigns. I would also have a strong chapter on advice on running high level campaigns.
I think this would work well in competion with D&D Next because of serveral things...
1) Fans have been clamoring for low magic campaigns for a while now. D&D Next is going to probably try to answear that desire...so Pazio showing it can be done with PF will highlight the systems flexabilty.
2) Have advice and rules for high level games will highlight the stability of the system I think pretty well also. As in Hey PF is not going to jump editions for awhile.
3) Both and other ideas would energize their fan base who have been waiting awhile for these and other things.
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Here we go, they should just send out an advertisement that says:
Remember when 4th edition came out and they had an awesome OGL?
Neither do we.
Pathfinder, best OGL in the business.
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I don't think Pathfinder has do much of anything beyond what they are already doing. Why try to compete with a company that you already dominate? That's like being in first place then purposefully slowing down so that everyone else can catch-up. Doesn't make much sense if you ask me. Now if they were to try and coincide any sort of release with D&DN I would like to see an alternate game world using Pathfinder rules; science-fiction, fantasy, modern, science-fantasy, something along those lines. Pen&paper gamers are an imaginative lot, get them involved by creating a submission contest which uses the CURRENT rule-system but applied to a genre beyond fantasy.
After looking at the DnD Next ruleset, I don't think Paizo has anything to fear. I find the system to be inferior and I think it's going to hurt WotC in the end.
I honestly think that Paizo will do fine because their approach when coming up with their publications line, while informed by business considerations, usually is informed by "What would *I* want as a gamer?" They aren't making guesses and gambles with market studies, as WotC did with 4th Edition, to try to enlarge their market beyond what they immediately know. With 4th Edition they were trying to "capture" the very large market that plays computer and video RPGs by adopting aspects of those games within the tabletop rules, and the expansion they gambled for did not materialize.
Given the peculiar nature of the tabletop RPG market as a market, simply trying to figure out "what *I* want as a gamer" has been a formula that has worked for Paizo. It's why the staff is on those boards so often and it's a big priority. So... there won't be much war-room strategizing involved. THAT has worked, and it will continue to work.
I am still of the opinion that a new Pathfinder Edition would suck. Its not necessary. They have a great system they have a great world. Given that most the important rule books are free. They are making money off support material, adventure paths, minis, paper minis, maps, and all sorts of stuff. Much of which would be made obsolete by a new edition. Which is why many people play Pathfinder because they did not want to stop playing 3.5.
Yeah, and at some point they will run into the same problems every prior edition has run into. Rules bloat, power creep and lack of new stuff to print, due to the first two points. Believe me, I'd rather not have to spend money to buy the same kind of books for, um, the fourth time now ( 3.0 - 3.5 - PF - PF 2.0 ), but I'd also would like the excellent people at Paizo continue to keep their jobs in five years.
Saying that they should never do another edition is a pipe dream. Also, we might actually get a viable non-mystical martial artist class with a new edition, who knows? Among a list of other things which could be improved over the current edition.
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Here we go, they should just send out an advertisement that says:
Remember when 4th edition came out and they had an awesome OGL?Neither do we.
Pathfinder, best OGL in the business.
That doesn't make sense. Pathfinder is not an Open Game License, it is an RPG that has a lot of it's content released as Open Game Content under WotC's OGL. And if you're trying to say PF is the best OGC in the business, many would disagree as you're putting it up against stuff like Traveller, RuneQuest/Legend and Fate!
So yeah, I wouldn't advise Paizo to do as you suggest.
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If I was publisher, it would depend on where I was at with my current print run of the Core Rule Book.
Because if I was close to selling through, I would strongly consider the value of publishing a version of the Core Rule Book with the production values, clarity, layout, and organization of the Beginner Box. It would be the same rule system, re-written somewhat and vastly re-organized.
It would tie in to the upcoming Strategy Guide format-wise. It would be so frickin' beautiful that even people who already own the CRB would buy it. And not a single rule would be changed (errata'd, yes), to avoid the whole "wah new edition" people like me who don't want a new edition(and the costs associated with updating the prd, etc.), but would love a book as beautiful as the Beginner Box was, and would help people transitioning from Beginner to Core.
Because I'm the publisher of the world's leading RPG game, and I want to stay that way by not splitting my fan base, yet I want to update to something mind-bogglingly beautiful. Let my customers cry "money grab" as they hand over fistfuls of cash. I'll respond "But it's the same rules. You don't need to buy it." with a knowing smile...
If Paizo wants a product to go up against D&D Next, it would honestly depend on where they are in their production schedule and what they plan to have coming out at the time.
What I'd advise, actually, is letting the 800 lb gorilla have its month on the stage. Gamers only have so much discretionary income, and the ones who will still be willing to drop enough for the 5e slipcase set at a heavy Amazon discount will have that much less to spend on any big Paizo release. And while pre-orders may not be as high as they were with 4e given how burned many were by that, there is a playtest so it's not precisely a pig in a poke except for the artwork, and with 4e, the artwork was never an issue so not a problem.
Aside from that? Put out a perennial that doesn't rely on the free PDF for pre-orders. A big Pathfinder Battles extravaganza set for example. At worst D&D Next does gangbusters and the product waits a bit for people to have extra cash. Or it doesn't do well and the Paizo offering sells more quickly instead.
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Can we stop calling it D&D Next? What are you guys going to call the edition after it, D&D PlusNext? MoreNext? Nexter? Dexter? DeeDee and Dexter abbreviated to D&D OH WAIT? Too Next For You To Handle? Nexxxtreme?
It's 5E. There's enough confusion with people arguing over what exactly was 0E and how does Adjectiveless D&D (abbreviated AD&D OH WAIT) sit with all that.
I think calling it something other than its name is hardly going to reduce confusion.
D&D:Next may be a poorly chosen name, but that's what it's called (for now, at least).
I think calling it something other than its name is hardly going to reduce confusion.
D&D:Next may be a poorly chosen name, but that's what it's called (for now, at least).
Yup. I don't see what's wrong by calling it by it's proper name.
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Can we stop calling it D&D Next? What are you guys going to call the edition after it, D&D PlusNext? MoreNext? Nexter? Dexter? DeeDee and Dexter abbreviated to D&D OH WAIT? Too Next For You To Handle? Nexxxtreme?
It's 5E. There's enough confusion with people arguing over what exactly was 0E and how does Adjectiveless D&D (abbreviated AD&D OH WAIT) sit with all that.
It's the project codename. There's nothing proper to call it until they officially name it.
Just like the PS4 was internally called Orbis and the Xbox One was called Durango until they were named.
It's the project codename. There's nothing proper to call it until they officially name it.
Maybe. I remember when they told us that 3.5 was just the working name, and that the products wouldn't actually be called 3.5.
Still a really weird marketing decision, IMO.
Can we stop calling it D&D Next? What are you guys going to call the edition after it, D&D PlusNext? MoreNext? Nexter? Dexter? DeeDee and Dexter abbreviated to D&D OH WAIT? Too Next For You To Handle? Nexxxtreme?
It's 5E. There's enough confusion with people arguing over what exactly was 0E and how does Adjectiveless D&D (abbreviated AD&D OH WAIT) sit with all that.
D&D Double-Plus Next.
Can we stop calling it D&D Next? What are you guys going to call the edition after it, D&D PlusNext? MoreNext? Nexter? Dexter? DeeDee and Dexter abbreviated to D&D OH WAIT? Too Next For You To Handle? Nexxxtreme?
It's 5E. There's enough confusion with people arguing over what exactly was 0E and how does Adjectiveless D&D (abbreviated AD&D OH WAIT) sit with all that.
Might as well call it was they're calling it. At some point in every product's iterations, they start calling it something without a number, and trying to number it just gets confusing.
We could call it D&D Hail Mary and it might be more accurate, but it would still be confusing for getting everyone on the same page.
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Next has (potentially*) a huge budget and merchandizing behemoth behind it, from standard ads to subtle marketing by product placement (Imagine the kids (and Bulkhead, Bumblebee and Smokescreen) playing D&D in TRansformers Prime, or the My Little Ponies playing). Heck, even before the split, D&D showed up in such diverse places as Eureka and Terminator.
Old comment, but this has now happened. Note the "Monstrous Manual" and dice bag.
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To counter D&D Next, Paizo should continue to put out the same high quality product they've been producing for the past decade. No need to make a knee jerk reaction. While D&D Next will sell extraordinarily well the first three to six months after release its popularity will wane just as 4E's did once the quality of their supplementary materials begins to decline.
With Paizo's gamespace, the future catalog of books to be released and just generally how Paizo treats its players I just can't see D&D next causing any problems from what I have seen of Next. I am part of the numerous playtests and am unimpressed.
So I guess my answer would be to Paizo - KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK! Oh and I need lots of money so I can buy more books tehe
Next has (potentially*) a huge budget and merchandizing behemoth behind it, from standard ads to subtle marketing by product placement (Imagine the kids (and Bulkhead, Bumblebee and Smokescreen) playing D&D in TRansformers Prime, or the My Little Ponies playing). Heck, even before the split, D&D showed up in such diverse places as Eureka and Terminator.Old comment, but this has now happened. Note the "Monstrous Manual" and dice bag.
Well on Reddit, Ponyfinder is a full blown thing. I've thought about running a game of Ponyfinder with a Planescape flavor.
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Yes yes. I'm talking about something to take on the hype.
The hype. Mmmm, no, there really isn't hype. This isn't the iPhone 17, where the manufacturer has to do nothing and people will be lined up around the block days before release.
Those who are happy with Pathfinder RPG (most of us here) aren't very interested in WotC's offering. Sure, we might be curious, but that's certainly not hype. Those who are curious will either buy the core to take a casual gander, or just wait for reviews. Those who aren't curious won't.
Those who aren't PFRPG fans may or may not pick up WotC's offering(s). Sure, there'll be some people who are eager and excited but really, this is more like Die Hard 6 than a new Harry Potter movie. Those who care are pretty much committed and those who aren't aren't.
I love the Core book too. Let's not pretend that this new release will not be a huge thing in the industry.
Huge? How can it be huge? Really, honestly. The D&D market split with 4e's release. Half of the market didn't make the transition because we don't want different. That half is very strong these days. It'll take more than a new edition of a game we don't play to significantly harm Paizo's market share. As for WotC's market share, well, some people will stick with 4e for a while, some with move to the new thingie, some will come to PF, and some will start playing something entirely different.
I strongly expect that it's all a wash on average. No massive upheaval. Why would there be? This isn't Christ 2.0
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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If I was publisher, it would depend on where I was at with my current print run of the Core Rule Book.
Because if I was close to selling through, I would strongly consider the value of publishing a version of the Core Rule Book with the production values, clarity, layout, and organization of the Beginner Box. It would be the same rule system, re-written somewhat and vastly re-organized.
It would tie in to the upcoming Strategy Guide format-wise. It would be so frickin' beautiful that even people who already own the CRB would buy it. And not a single rule would be changed (errata'd, yes), to avoid the whole "wah new edition" people like me who don't want a new edition(and the costs associated with updating the prd, etc.), but would love a book as beautiful as the Beginner Box was, and would help people transitioning from Beginner to Core.
Because I'm the publisher of the world's leading RPG game, and I want to stay that way by not splitting my fan base, yet I want to update to something mind-bogglingly beautiful. Let my customers cry "money grab" as they hand over fistfuls of cash. I'll respond "But it's the same rules. You don't need to buy it." with a knowing smile...
Reckless, I think you hit the nail on the head. This is *exactly* what is needed to counter a new edition of D&D. Show people (especially new gamers) that Pathfinder doesn't have to be huge and intimidating. Make the book clearer and better organized than the current Core Rulebook.
If Paizo wants to be really ambitious, they could try to clean up some of the ambiguous rule text and/or tweak some of the rough spots in the rules. Whether you call that Pathfinder 1.5 or Pathfinder 1.1 or whatever, I think there is some value in that. But even without any substantive rules changes, I think the sort of approach they are taking with the Beginner Box and the Strategy Guide is exactly what should be in the Core Rulebook -- the first thing people are going to pick up when they are new to the game should be the *best* thing!
Like many have said...Stay the course. I love the depth of the world material, the quality, and community. Sure, a new book would be great. More options are fun. I love the idea of hard covers for a more detailed look at major cities, regions, etc. Just sell what they have as what they have is great!
A big sale would be wonderful :) Keep that finite discretionary income and subsequent investment flowing right when this other stuff hits the market.
I personally think Pathfinder and D&D 4th/5th edition are on totally separate paths. Those that like where 4th edition went will probably love with 5th edition is going. From what I read they are just taking 4th edition that much farther from the D&D roots, it's evolving more towards a board game style I think.
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I'm in the "keep on keeping on boat", with the caveat that Reckless had a good idea with cleaning up the CRB to make it even better. I just think Paizo has everything covered right now, and it's a one stop shopping place for your gaming needs, fantasy based anyway. The amount of sheer material out right now for Pathfinder is incredible, and only getting better by the day. These are quality products that tie in well together and I for one am very pleased with their customer service.
Now if they wanted to do something new, a Paizo created Sci-Fi game would be appealing to me. But I don't think my wallet could take it!
I personally think Pathfinder and D&D 4th/5th edition are on totally separate paths. Those that like where 4th edition went will probably love with 5th edition is going. From what I read they are just taking 4th edition that much farther from the D&D roots, it's evolving more towards a board game style I think.
Then you haven't seen the 5th edition playtest. It looks like a 2e retroclone more than anything else.
It looks interesting to me. I never got the chance to try it out (even set up two different playtest sessions that never got past character creation), but I still want to. Also, my chance to play it at GenCon will likely be superseded by me Going for 6cess and Harsh Realities. I follow their development blog and I really like a lot of what I'm seeing...
The problem is that to play DnD Next I'll have to buy three new books that aren't pathfinder, with the money I use to buy Pathfinder stuff. Also, Deep Magic (recently kickstarted Kobold Press book) I'd coming out around that time and I have lots of plans for that book.
The problem is that to play DnD Next I'll have to buy three new books...
Have they announced how they plan on releasing the rules? I figure a traditional three-book format would be the favorite, but the digital tools of 4E were one of its strongest features and I wondered whether they may have sidelined (even if not totally abandoned) delivering the rules in hardcopy format.
I personally think Pathfinder and D&D 4th/5th edition are on totally separate paths. Those that like where 4th edition went will probably love with 5th edition is going. From what I read they are just taking 4th edition that much farther from the D&D roots, it's evolving more towards a board game style I think.Then you haven't seen the 5th edition playtest. It looks like a 2e retroclone more than anything else.
I didn't find that. I guess I can see how some would though now that you mention it. There are some elements that are retro in feel.
If I was publisher, it would depend on where I was at with my current print run of the Core Rule Book.
Because if I was close to selling through, I would strongly consider the value of publishing a version of the Core Rule Book with the production values, clarity, layout, and organization of the Beginner Box. It would be the same rule system, re-written somewhat and vastly re-organized.
It would tie in to the upcoming Strategy Guide format-wise. It would be so frickin' beautiful that even people who already own the CRB would buy it. And not a single rule would be changed (errata'd, yes), to avoid the whole "wah new edition" people like me who don't want a new edition(and the costs associated with updating the prd, etc.), but would love a book as beautiful as the Beginner Box was, and would help people transitioning from Beginner to Core.
Because I'm the publisher of the world's leading RPG game, and I want to stay that way by not splitting my fan base, yet I want to update to something mind-bogglingly beautiful. Let my customers cry "money grab" as they hand over fistfuls of cash. I'll respond "But it's the same rules. You don't need to buy it." with a knowing smile...
This. and/or make it cheap. Like really cheap. I held off buying for Ages because of the cost. But then went a bought B1, GMG, APG, ISG and a bunch of PC and CG books. And started my AP sub. Once people have the CRB they will probably buy other stuff too.
I personally think Pathfinder and D&D 4th/5th edition are on totally separate paths. Those that like where 4th edition went will probably love with 5th edition is going. From what I read they are just taking 4th edition that much farther from the D&D roots, it's evolving more towards a board game style I think.
You are literally like the only person on the internet who thinks that.
Ultimate Monotony , run the adventurer through the day to day life of living like a normal person. Includes rules for experience gain through harvesting potatoes, new craft (knitting) options, and stretches that 15 minute work day to 8 hours in your characters dead end job. Even the spellcasters get cantrips like Replace Shirt Button, Find Keys, and File Taxes to just name a few. Coming February 31st 2014, get it for $467.12.
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Chief Technical Officer
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...and/or make it cheap. Like really cheap. I held off buying for Ages because of the cost. But then went a bought B1, GMG, APG, ISG and a bunch of PC and CG books. And started my AP sub. Once people have the CRB they will probably buy other stuff too.
How about a $9.99 PDF? Or—perhaps even better—a completely free website that contains all of the rules?
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When does the next edition of D&D come out anyway? I've paid almostno attention to it.
To answer the OP: I don't think Paizo has to do anything other than what they do every month already, which is put out an interesting adventure and so on. They don't have to try and go for a D&D Counter Punch.
-Skeld
Pathfinder 1.5.
Take the same approach to Pathfinder that they took to 3.5
Overhaul without making the existing purchases obsolete.
It is time.
I agree. Both of my core rulebooks are falling apart, so it's a good time to replace them with something all new.
How about a $9.99 PDF? Or—perhaps even better—a completely free website that contains all of the rules?...and/or make it cheap. Like really cheap. I held off buying for Ages because of the cost. But then went a bought B1, GMG, APG, ISG and a bunch of PC and CG books. And started my AP sub. Once people have the CRB they will probably buy other stuff too.
Hey, those two ideas are great. I wish Paizo someday make them.
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I am still of the opinion that a new Pathfinder Edition would suck. Its not necessary. They have a great system they have a great world. Given that most the important rule books are free. They are making money off support material, adventure paths, minis, paper minis, maps, and all sorts of stuff. Much of which would be made obsolete by a new edition. Which is why many people play Pathfinder because they did not want to stop playing 3.5.Yeah, and at some point they will run into the same problems every prior edition has run into. Rules bloat, power creep and lack of new stuff to print, due to the first two points. Believe me, I'd rather not have to spend money to buy the same kind of books for, um, the fourth time now ( 3.0 - 3.5 - PF - PF 2.0 ), but I'd also would like the excellent people at Paizo continue to keep their jobs in five years.
Saying that they should never do another edition is a pipe dream. Also, we might actually get a viable non-mystical martial artist class with a new edition, who knows? Among a list of other things which could be improved over the current edition.
I want the guys to have jobs too but your prophecy of doom I think is misplaced. Look at it this way. Compare 3.0 power creep to PF power creep I think they have done a far superior job at keeping things balanced other than the Summoner and the Master of Many Styles. 2E lasted almost a decade. Expanding relevant content has been the success of Pathfinder. People still play chess, checkers, Monopoly ect without significant rules change.
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Sure, there's Swords & Wizardry and all the other retroclones, but they all exist mostly in a "core rulebook + bestiary" model, with no adventures/settings/supplements.
Swords & Wizardry GM Aids
Tome of Adventure DesignUnusual Suspects
Swords & Wizardry Monster Books
Monstrosities
Tome of Horrors Complete
Tome of Horrors 4
Swords & Wizardry Adventures
Cyclopean Deeps
• Down to Ques Querax
• Eye of the Titan
• Izamne, City of Endless Dark
Fane of the Fallen
Grimmsgate
Hall of Bones
Hex Crawl Classics
• Valley of the Hawks
• The Winter Woods
• Beyond the Black Water
• The Shattered Empire
• The Pirate Coast
• The Troll Hills
• The Golden Meadows
MCMLXXV
The Northlands Saga
• Vengeance of the Long Serpent
• Beyond the Wailing Mountains
• The Death Curse of Sven Oakenfist
• Blood on the Snow
One Night Stands
• The Jungle Ruins of Madaro-Shanti
• Death in the Painted Canyons
• Spire of Iron and Crystal
• Dread Saecaroth
• Scorned
• Curse of Shadowhold
Rappan Athuk
• Rappan Athuk
• Area 29 - Castle Calaelen
• Level 1D - Tunnels of Terror
Razor Coast
• Razor Coast
• Heart of the Razor
Saturday Night Special
• The Hollow Mountain
• Castle Baldemar's Dungeon
• Ice Tower of the Salka
• The Mires of Mourning
Splinters of Faith
• It Started With A Chicken
• Burning Desires
• Culvert Operations
• For Love of Chaos
• Eclipse of the Hearth
• Morning of Tears
• The Heir of Sin
• Pains of Scalded Glass
• Duel of Magic
• Remorse of Life
Stoneheart Valley
Strange Bedfellows
That's just focusing on FGG's stuff, there are 3PP out there that publish stuff specifically for S&W, and then there's the fact that it's pretty damn compatible most stuff published for other retro-clones or for pre-d20 editions of D&D.