I bought a Gosh Darn Cure Wand!


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Silver Crusade

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Chris Mortika wrote:

To the Paizo staff member who changed the thread title.

"Gosh Darn"? Really??

I changed it. After two warnings by mods I felt it might positively influence the tone of the new posts.

The Exchange 5/5

TimrehIX wrote:
Chris Mortika wrote:

To the Paizo staff member who changed the thread title.

"Gosh Darn"? Really??

I changed it. After two warnings by mods I felt it might positively influence the tone of the new posts.

How?

after an hour, I am unable to alter the title of a thread... how were you able to? (so next time my spelling gets me I can fix it).

Silver Crusade

I went to the first post and clicked EDIT. It just let me do it.

Silver Crusade 1/5

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redward wrote:
Adam Mogyorodi wrote:
I would absolutely love to have Joe Pesci at my table.
Avoid any implications that he might be a clown.

What?! Are yoos sayin' Ima bard? That I'm sum sorta performing monkey dancin around for your inspiration? Is that it? Do Ima bard to you, your own personal buffa? Why I oughta...

1/5

Adam Mogyorodi wrote:
I would absolutely love to have Joe Pesci at my table.

I'd just be careful about letting him play at a table with yoots. :-)

Dark Archive 4/5

Mike Mistele wrote:
Adam Mogyorodi wrote:
I would absolutely love to have Joe Pesci at my table.
I'd just be careful about letting him play at a table with yoots. :-)

Now I want a table with Joe Pesci and Marisa Tomei. Are there any contests that one can apply to?

2/5

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I think the initial concern essentially boiled down to "please let me play my character" vs. "don't be a drain on other party members."

I can see either side to the debate. I can see where you feel like your character feel was carrying the party

(see my other thread http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pxrq?What-are-reasonable-expectations-in-PFS ) because no one buys any kind of equipment or consumeables because there's an expectation that if your character is a caster will have enough for the party for free.

Likewise a character who will require a lot of healing may be expected to contribute resources to healing.

I try to find a happy medium myself. I'm in this for the fun. And I prefer team play. My characters usually just buff the party and make life inconvenient for the foes. I very rarely play straight damage-dealers (as nice as rolling huge piles of dice is) because I get that kind of rush from video games.

This is a diverse community with many personalities and styles, some groups you'll mesh with and some groups you'll have to bow out from.

1/5

I find 750gp a great buy not only because I can now provide hp for myself with out a healer but also because it spreads good will around the table. Most clerics are not set up to be heal bots. They have other priorities. So when you delegate them to the role of healer you are making that player spend spells they might not want to.

It is your right to decide not to play with a wand of CLW but it is also the other players right to decide not to play with you until you do. If you made it a habit of not having healing and thus spent most scenarios unconscious, I would refuse to sit at a table with you. You are now ruining my fun and making the scenario harder by not pulling your own weight.

Shadow Lodge 2/5

I have a cleric right now who is built to channel negative energy with channel force (and he does quite a bit of damage despite Mr. Saxon's prejudice). Frequently I find myself being the only person at the table capable of casting healing spells, so I generally prepare restoration, BOL, raise dead, etc instead of the spells that I would normally prepare.

A lot of the important healing spells (resto and raise dead) require some expensive material components. Also, it is important to have BOL scrolls handy at all times when things go south, and those can be expensive too. Whenever I play, I always remind everybody at the table that they should bring their own diamonds and their own scrolls so that I can use the materials to save them. I remind them that buying material components is not a huge deal because if they're not used, they can be sold for full price later because they are a trade good. Most people tend to heed my advice and buy some material components to help me out, but I always have my own set of material components and scrolls for the people who can't afford them or don't think much of my suggestion.

If I have to heal somebody with my own stuff that's not a big deal. I don't harass them about it or get pissed. I just heal them up and assume I've made my point! At least they're not dead!

Healing resources like wands are not expensive. But they add up. And when one person is buying all of the healing resources for the entire party consistently, then that's somewhat inconsiderate. Healers, like everybody else, have goals with their character in terms of gear. If the healers are forced to constantly provide for everybody else, then it makes it harder for them to improve their character, and it makes them less effective as a party member.

In short, it's a matter of consideration and fairness to distribute the cost of healing across the whole party rather than expecting the healer to foot the entire bill. Though I would also say that it's not cool that you get nagged over it.

-----
Here's an example of why this is important:

At the paizo con special, I played at the 14-15 tier table (the guys who were yelling OUTSIDE and INSIDE the entire time) and prior to the scenario we each spent a HUGE amount of gold on healing scrolls and material components. I personally spent more (a touch over 15,000 gold) than I made back from the special, and everybody else paid almost as much as I did. And it was certainly a good thing we did that, because I wound up having to use most of my scrolls (save for a few BOL scrolls, some lesser resto, and heal) and material component we purchased. There is no way I could have afforded to pay for that all by myself.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Jessica Price wrote:
Chris Mortika wrote:

To the Paizo staff member who changed the thread title.

"Gosh Darn"? Really??

Yes, really. We sometimes look the other way about profanity usage in threads, if it doesn't get out of hand, but we prefer to keep the thread titles to language acceptable in most work and family environments.

After the way you delivered that Ms. Price, I want a t-shirt with "Yes,Really" on it.

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

So here's the elephant in the room: If out of combat healing is relegated to cheap, ubiquitous wands, is it not a design flaw to require it?

You only wind up punishing those who refuse to meta game.

And what if the character who could use the wand refuses to do so? Aren't you still "telling them what to do" by handing them your wand and saying "heal me"?

Forest for the trees, folks.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Finlanderboy wrote:

LazarX I saw a DM say to someone I am targeting you with these monsters to teach you, you need to buy a wand of cure light wounds. I was watchign the table and I said I am sure mr brock would love to hear that and left.

There is a lot of stupidbadfun with people on feelings on character design. The extreme of those people spend time wrecking the game for it.

Advice someone, but respect their right to say no.

A DM targeting a player for a metagame reason is a disgrace to the hobby, but I can find idiot extreme examples to argue any position. If you're going to bring Mr. Brock up, if you ask him that players investing in CLW wands for their characters is a good strategy, he'd probably agree to that as well, but that's neither here nor there.

When I give advice to a messageboard poster, it's to people that I presume that can act like mature adults in a social setting. I don't waste time on people like you describe because quite frankly they're usually lost causes. So if you agree to leave straw cases like this out of the discussion, I'll reciprocate.


mcbobbo wrote:
So here's the elephant in the room: If out of combat healing is relegated to cheap, ubiquitous wands, is it not a design flaw to require it?

Sort of, in the last low magic game I played it just meant I had to rest more often with my character when I ran out of hps. For a narrative it was good, but from the point of few of mechanics it was awful and forcing me to stop every other fight. YMMV. I'd imagine its pretty hard to balance the scenarios without the idea of healing.

5/5 5/55/55/5

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Nothing metagaming about buying a wand of clw.

If i go hiking in the woods i take bandages. If I expect a tick i bring tweezers. If its going to be cold i bring a blanket.

So if your profession regularly involves you having things rip your intestines out of your stomach you bring something to put them back in.

The Exchange 5/5

the last few posts on this thread have lost me totally.

I don't understand enough to even reply...

5/5 5/55/55/5

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Can we stop calling people jerks, either forthrightly or obliquely? Its overused and it makes a race to the bottom to quickly label someone a jerk so they're in violation of the rules.

Shadow Lodge

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mcbobbo wrote:
So here's the elephant in the room: If out of combat healing is relegated to cheap, ubiquitous wands, is it not a design flaw to require it?

And yet the mechanic used to eliminate that problem in 4e is, amongst the game's haters, widely considered to be one of the biggest mistakes of the whole system.

Project Manager

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Can we stop calling people jerks, either forthrightly or obliquely? Its overused and it makes a race to the bottom to quickly label someone a jerk so they're in violation of the rules.

Agreed. Removed inappropriate post with accusations of fascism and jerkism.

1/5

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LazarX wrote:
Jessica Price wrote:
Chris Mortika wrote:

To the Paizo staff member who changed the thread title.

"Gosh Darn"? Really??

Yes, really. We sometimes look the other way about profanity usage in threads, if it doesn't get out of hand, but we prefer to keep the thread titles to language acceptable in most work and family environments.
After the way you delivered that Ms. Price, I want a t-shirt with "Yes,Really" on it.

I'd buy that shirt.

I was going to further derail this thread as I now only hope it will die but it's approximately a 1.5 on the Henderson scale of derailment.

While the summoner might be a hare away from CoDZilla it's still very close. Very, very close.

1/5

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what the-
metagaming by having a CLW wand?

man I just figured that there was some Venture Captain dude or dudette screaming at my PC in an R. Lee Ermey voice on the first day of Pathfinder boot camp about making sure to be prepared

"Gol-durnit Private Lamontius, you must be dumber than a bag a' hammers if you think there's always going to be a cleric around to kiss yer boo-boos when you get an ouchie and CRY FER MOMMA!"

"Now...SHOW ME YER WAR FACE, YOU SNIVELING SACK A' PUGWAMPI SPIT! AND WHO IN THE SIX LAYERS A' SARENRAE'S UNMENTIONABLES DECIDES TO BE A ROGUE, ANYWAY?!

*sobs*
oh man my war face was so terrible :(


TimrehIX wrote:

The only other class with two abilities that heals that I can think of is the paladin and they don’t get channel until a few levels in. And if I am wrong on that point it doesn’t invalidate anything else.

I didn’t say he had to heal; only that he didn’t. It seems logical that a renewable resource like channel would be a better use than a non renewable one like wands. And I was told to get a wand and he want told to channel. I never tell another player how to run their character.

I am not the only one who doesn’t have a cure wand. There have been a few times when only a few of us had them.

I get that people don’t like spending their resources, but I spend mine as well and do what I can to keep the party alive and get missions done without complaint.

- Druid/witch/oracle, or

- Alchemists with infused extract can be done at level 1
- Magus, oracle, summoner, sorcerer, wizard, witch can all cast infernal healing at level 1 if they purchase the spell or select it when starting or leveling.

They don't need to be ability abilities, just the capability to heal (I'm not sure if you were specifically calling on that or not).

Anyway that said, I'm not really disagreeing with you on the topic that you need to bring your own healing mechanism. I say that that that issue is something that should be role-played by characters, and that any good character would certainly be OK with it. Only evil or neutral characters might have an issue with their friends mooching off them. People shouldn't be saying OOC what others should be doing (aside from rules or helpful recommendations or such).

mcbobbo wrote:

So here's the elephant in the room: If out of combat healing is relegated to cheap, ubiquitous wands, is it not a design flaw to require it?

You only wind up punishing those who refuse to meta game.

Not really; Not if you interpret the character's game world knowledge the similar to a basic/new player's knowledge of items. It's more up to the GM to decide what's common knowledge and what isn't (or in PFS I'd assume that it is a common knowledge thing).

For instance, would it really make much sense for a person to know about and buy a Dream Journal of the Pallid Seer? Perhaps, but maybe only if they made a good lore check on it, or if the GM allowed the character to have previously been in contact with one and understood how it works (referring to non-PFS scenarios, not sure how it goes for PFS).
While metagaming may be a bigger issue for more obscure items like that, or maybe even something like infernal healing (I'd personally say not), I don't see it being an issue whatsoever with wands of healing, because wands of healing would be considered standard adventuring gear.
Realize that without good points into UMD, and no cleric/oracle/witch nearby, there's still a chance that many people will botch their UMD check to use the CLW wand, and hence be unable to use it for the rest of the day.

In fact on the subject of metagaming, I think the bigger issue is with someone like a lawful good cleric who follows some benevolent/kind/selfless god/morals who doesn't want to use his consumables on others because it's his stuff. If you have a problem with your character giving away stuff for free, you probably shouldn't have chosen a selfless good cleric, you dingus. It goes back to one of the original things I mentioned: this sort issue should be dealt through role-playing.

Silver Crusade 5/5

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So I realize I am late to the discussion, but here's my perspective.

I've played clerics and I've played many other classes, and every single character I play has a cure light wounds wand. Why? Because it's not fair to expect someone else to pay for my healing.

The particular incident that really solidified my opinion was last year at PaizoCon. I played an 8th level cleric at a tier 8-9 table. I started the scenario with a nearly full wand of cure light wounds. The rest of the table did not bring cure light wounds wands. Not one among 5 players that were 7-9 level. I used up my entire wand to heal people out of combat so I could save my spell slots and channels for buffing or in combat healing (where, I might add, they were needed). Why should I have to swallow 750GP or two PP every scenario because no one else brought wands? That leads to me getting behind on WBL and could lead to things like lower AC, worse saves, not being able to afford that reach rod for when YOU need a breath of life and I am too far away etc.

A cure light wounds wand is the most cost efficient way to heal out of combat. Everyone should have one for that reason alone. A cleric can spend channels and spell slots to heal outside of combat, but you're really going to regret it when that protection from evil, lesser restoration or cure disease that you really need right now was converted after the last combat because no one wanted to spend their resources on a cure light wounds wand. Or you might regret those channels that were used to heal up after the trap and you could really use them RIGHT NOW after something threw that empowered maximized fireball at the whole party.

Part of this game is about resource management. A cure light wounds wand from every player is critical for the conservation of resources needed so that you haven't used up all your healing before running into the BBEG. And it's also not fair to expect that the cleric or other healing type (or those that you seem to think SHOULD be healing types even if they aren't designed to be so) should shoulder all the expense. Besides healing, my cleric is also able to: handle darkness, deeper darkness, can fly, teleport, buff the party, etc. But she also carries a runestone of power so that she doesn't have to use someone else's spell slot up for buff spells (heroism or barkskin usually). It's really simple courtesy. So is carrying a cure light wounds wand.

Silver Crusade 4/5

Katie Sommer wrote:

So I realize I am late to the discussion, but here's my perspective.

I've played clerics and I've played many other classes, and every single character I play has a cure light wounds wand. Why? Because it's not fair to expect someone else to pay for my healing.

The particular incident that really solidified my opinion was last year at PaizoCon. I played an 8th level cleric at a tier 8-9 table. I started the scenario with a nearly full wand of cure light wounds. The rest of the table did not bring cure light wounds wands. Not one among 5 players that were 7-9 level. I used up my entire wand to heal people out of combat so I could save my spell slots and channels for buffing or in combat healing (where, I might add, they were needed). Why should I have to swallow 750GP or two PP every scenario because no one else brought wands? That leads to me getting behind on WBL and could lead to things like lower AC, worse saves, not being able to afford that reach rod for when YOU need a breath of life and I am too far away etc.

Exactly.

I have a barbarian who's up to level 14 in Society play. Being a front liner with mediocre AC and high HP, I was going through half a wand or more of healing in a lot of scenarios by around level 8 or 9, just for myself. It became a running gag with my friends that my character carried around a pile of spent wands big enough to hide behind if we needed cover (easier to carry than a pile of dead bards). Why should the party cleric have to pay for all those wands, when they need their money to buy other stuff for themselves. By that level, I had enough prestige saved up to come back from the dead twice, so I started just spending most of my new PA on new wands.

I also discovered that Infernal Healing is more cost effective than CLW for out of combat wand healing. My character is neutral, and I mostly played with the same group, with a witch and cleric of Pharasma who were both neutral and didn't mind using IH on me, so I switched to mostly using those.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/5 RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8

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Fromper wrote:
Katie Sommer wrote:

So I realize I am late to the discussion, but here's my perspective.

I've played clerics and I've played many other classes, and every single character I play has a cure light wounds wand. Why? Because it's not fair to expect someone else to pay for my healing.

Exactly.

I have a barbarian who's up to level 14 in Society play. Being a front liner with mediocre AC and high HP, I was going through half a wand or more of healing in a lot of scenarios by around level 8 or 9, just for myself. It became a running gag with my friends that my character carried around a pile of spent wands big enough to hide behind if we needed cover (easier to carry than a pile of dead bards). Why should the party cleric have to pay for all those wands, when they need their money to buy other stuff for themselves. By that level, I had enough prestige saved up to come back from the dead twice, so I started just spending most of my new PA on new wands.

A bare-chested half-orc covered in scars steps forward and booms his voice across the crowded conversation hall

"Rukk agree!"

As the audience hushes, he continues

"Rukk no wear armor. Why!? Because my skin is hard, like stone!"

The half-orc flexes his arms and dulls a knife against his tough hide.

"Rukk no use weapons. WHY!? Because my tusks are strong, like mammoths!

He tosses the dagger aside and lets loose a roar, lifting his chin to show the full length of his large, brutal tusks.

"Rukk do have this though."

He retrieves a small sliver of bone, wrapped in a strand of leather and hands it to the man in clerical robes to his side. The man nods in recognition

"WHY!? Because I am wise, like owl."

He lowers his voice, and gestures at the newer recruits, specifically those without their standard cure light wounds wand.

"You can be hard like stone and strong like mammoth but unless you are wise, like owl, you will die, like a fool."

Scarab Sages 5/5

Rukk, darlin', if you should need help with your wand, with any of your wands, I'd be happy to
...handle them for you!
(big eyed smile! wink...)

5/5

Keep in mind that just because someone doesn't have a wand of CLW, doesn't mean they expect others to use their resources to heal them.

Different perspective (thread is TL;DR btw):

If we expect any character whose primary tactics will result in hit point loss to purchase their own methods of restoring those hit points, then, should we expect any character whose primary purpose is to cast spells to purchase items which restore spells cast?

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, West Virginia—Charleston

Kyle Baird wrote:

Keep in mind that just because someone doesn't have a wand of CLW, doesn't mean they expect others to use their resources to heal them.

Different perspective (thread is TL;DR btw):

If we expect any character whose primary tactics will result in hit point loss to purchase their own methods of restoring those hit points, then, should we expect any character whose primary purpose is to cast spells to purchase items which restore spells cast?

If your spellcasting character is constantly running out of spells and being ineffective as a result, then yes, there is an expectation that you'll pack a pearl of power or two. I also don't mind using a handful of charges on somebody - what gets me is when certain players have a blanket policy to never purchase them, because they know that they can mooch from their companions.

The Exchange 5/5

Kyle Baird wrote:

Keep in mind that just because someone doesn't have a wand of CLW, doesn't mean they expect others to use their resources to heal them.

Different perspective (thread is TL;DR btw):

If we expect any character whose primary tactics will result in hit point loss to purchase their own methods of restoring those hit points, then, should we expect any character whose primary purpose is to cast spells to purchase items which restore spells cast?

well... several of my PCs really like having a Wizard cast Mage Armor on them, so I often buy a Pearl of Power with them - to get a party wizard to cast it (first I check to see if he is casting one on himself, if he is, I ask if he could use my pearl to recall it and cast it on my PC too.)

This also means that some of my PCs will have a Pearl of Power 1st level, and when there's no Wiz in the party, I'll lend it out to the witch/cleric/etc. ...

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/5 RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8

Kyle Baird wrote:

Keep in mind that just because someone doesn't have a wand of CLW, doesn't mean they expect others to use their resources to heal them.

Different perspective (thread is TL;DR btw):

If we expect any character whose primary tactics will result in hit point loss to purchase their own methods of restoring those hit points, then, should we expect any character whose primary purpose is to cast spells to purchase items which restore spells cast?

Well they do, don't they? Don't they purchase pearls of power or the equivalent spontaneous item? Casters purchase those items on the table, as well as using various scrolls and wands. So yeah, I kinda expect them to have that. As well as a CLW wand or some method of contributing to party healing resources.

But I do like your different perspective idea. So maybe we should look at this from the big picture. So here's what I see the big picture as: you are all in the same party, with the same overall goal (not always the case in homebrews, but for PFS it is true). From that, I can now say this: to be a good member of any party or table, you need to work together (i.e. be a team player).

In game, I would see this translate to getting a CLW wand, even if you aren't going to need it a lot. Purchasing one for yourself and the party is a very teamwork-centered gesture. It's a nice thing to do, and 2 prestige or 750 gold isn't breaking people's budget. The same could be said of monks that purchase a pearl of power so any wizards in the group can hit them with a cast mage armor without expending a spell slot. It's a nice thing to do as well as being tactically sound.

And that's what we really want to encourage. That attitude.

That said, it's often distilled into "you need a CLW wand or you fail," but in reality even that is to black and white for such a diverse system. The real message should be "you need to work together as a team to accomplish goals, share the burden of expendable resources, and combine your abilities to garner the best results in any situation."

At least, that's what people will likely need to kill Krune on hardmode -- right?

EDIT: Ninja'd by nosig... good call on that pearl of power ;)

5/5

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Of course the pearl of power was what I was referring to, but I don't see the feverish uproar if the party has to rest because the wizard ran out of spells.

To be clear, if you don't have your own means to heal hit points and EXPECT others to do it for you outside of combat, you're being a jerk.

If you don't have a means to heal yourself outside of combat and don't expect others to heal you either, you're simply less effective. Very similar to a wizard who takes hold portal, endure elements, ki arrow, unseen servant, alarm, and floating disk for their 18 INT level 1 wizard. Effective? No. Badwrongfun? No. Annoying to other players? Probably, but so what?

As long as the player has given some thought to "how am I going to help the party," then that's enough, even if they're aren't good at it.

1/5

So question:

Are players supposed to be able to accommodate themselves in every single way, no exceptions, or are they just supposed to have stuff for healing?

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, West Virginia—Charleston

That's just it, Kyle - the players without the wands are the ones who are the first to ask for a few hits from a wand. I'd be fine if they never asked for healing, but they do.

5/5

Netopalis wrote:
That's just it, Kyle - the players without the wands are the ones who are the first to ask for a few hits from a wand. I'd be fine if they never asked for healing, but they do.

In your experience. I've had different experiences. Heck, I even had a 9th level EK who never once bought an item to heal herself despite being a melee heavy character. I also never once asked to be healed.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, West Virginia—Charleston

Right. There are exceptions, certainly. It was rather amusing to me when I GMmed a table recently where everybody took this tack, though - nobody had that wand.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
Kyle Baird wrote:
Of course the pearl of power was what I was referring to, but I don't see the feverish uproar if the party has to rest because the wizard ran out of spells.

Usually because the other party members need to recover daily resources as well.

But if the wizard novas all his spells in the first encounter and then expects the party to wait while he rests, damn right there is an uproar.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, West Virginia—Charleston

FanaticRat wrote:

So question:

Are players supposed to be able to accommodate themselves in every single way, no exceptions, or are they just supposed to have stuff for healing?

You should prepare for everything you need to make your character effective. If you're a fighter, I expect weapons and armor. If you're a caster, I expect spell components. If you have HP, then I expect you to be able to top it up. I'm not even asking for you to be able to cast it on your own - just make sure you do have one.

As an aside, this is why I believe that parties should be able to chip in for the replacement of magical items used for the party. Most, if not all of my characters carry some form of Daylight, many of them in an oil. This generally means that I am the person who has to spend 750 gp for the good of the party, which affects my characters' WBL.

1/5

wait why not just a wand of mage armor

1/5

Netopalis wrote:
FanaticRat wrote:

So question:

Are players supposed to be able to accommodate themselves in every single way, no exceptions, or are they just supposed to have stuff for healing?

You should prepare for everything you need to make your character effective. If you're a fighter, I expect weapons and armor. If you're a caster, I expect spell components. If you have HP, then I expect you to be able to top it up. I'm not even asking for you to be able to cast it on your own - just make sure you do have one.

As an aside, this is why I believe that parties should be able to chip in for the replacement of magical items used for the party. Most, if not all of my characters carry some form of Daylight, many of them in an oil. This generally means that I am the person who has to spend 750 gp for the good of the party, which affects my characters' WBL.

That's a bit more reasonable. When I read through these threads, it makes it seem like PFS is a team game where you're expected to be able to handle everything yourself.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, West Virginia—Charleston

Lamontius wrote:
wait why not just a wand of mage armor

Because mage armor doesn't stack with regular armor, and even if it did there are still plenty of things that can hit ridiculous ACs, even in level 1-5 scenarios.

I'm thinking of a particular creature that hits twice at +13 each in Tier 1-2.

The Exchange 5/5

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Lamontius wrote:
wait why not just a wand of mage armor

Duration is an hour per level, the wand nets me 1 hour per change.

If the wizard is >5th the pearl lasts alot longer.... and when we get to APL 8 and above it often lasts all day.

I've always kind of had a problem with the Meta-gamey aspect of:
Judge: "you've traveled for 2 weeks getting here, and just before entering town..."
Monk to Wizard: "tap me with my wand of mage armor"

The Exchange 5/5

Netopalis wrote:
Lamontius wrote:
wait why not just a wand of mage armor

Because mage armor doesn't stack with regular armor, and even if it did there are still plenty of things that can hit ridiculous ACs, even in level 1-5 scenarios.

I'm thinking of a particular creature that hits twice at +13 each in Tier 1-2.

???

I think his question was why a pearl rather than a wand.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, West Virginia—Charleston

FanaticRat wrote:
Netopalis wrote:
FanaticRat wrote:

So question:

Are players supposed to be able to accommodate themselves in every single way, no exceptions, or are they just supposed to have stuff for healing?

You should prepare for everything you need to make your character effective. If you're a fighter, I expect weapons and armor. If you're a caster, I expect spell components. If you have HP, then I expect you to be able to top it up. I'm not even asking for you to be able to cast it on your own - just make sure you do have one.

As an aside, this is why I believe that parties should be able to chip in for the replacement of magical items used for the party. Most, if not all of my characters carry some form of Daylight, many of them in an oil. This generally means that I am the person who has to spend 750 gp for the good of the party, which affects my characters' WBL.

That's a bit more reasonable. When I read through these threads, it makes it seem like PFS is a team game where you're expected to be able to handle everything yourself.

Nah, not at all. I expect every player to enter a scenario assuming that the rest of their team will be minimally competent. Minimally competent means that you will not be the sole damage dealer and, if you are a spellcaster, that there will be a tank in front of you. I expect everybody to realize that yes, they very well may be hit during the course of a scenario, even if they are a spellcaster. I finally expect everybody to realize that only an *extremely* optimized healer can heal an entire party for an entire scenario without resorting to wand use, if the scenario becomes difficult. Wand charges are a finite resource, and they have a GP value. If you go into a scenario without a wand, and you expect healing beyond the amount that an appropriately-leveled cleric can do through channels alone, then you are fundamentally assuming that other people at the table are willing to spend money to improve your character. You are forcing other PCs to pay for your ability to play, because nobody does a wand check prior to seating at a table.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, West Virginia—Charleston

nosig wrote:
Netopalis wrote:
Lamontius wrote:
wait why not just a wand of mage armor

Because mage armor doesn't stack with regular armor, and even if it did there are still plenty of things that can hit ridiculous ACs, even in level 1-5 scenarios.

I'm thinking of a particular creature that hits twice at +13 each in Tier 1-2.

???

I think his question was why a pearl rather than a wand.

Oh, I see. I thought he was asking why not a Wand of Mage Armor instead of a Wand of Cure Light Wounds. That makes more sense.

The Exchange 5/5 RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

FanaticRat wrote:

So question:

Are player characters supposed to be able to accommodate themselves in every single way, no exceptions, or are they just supposed to have stuff for healing?

Different people will have different recommendations. Here's mine:

Somewhere in the middle. It's not reasonable to expect most wizards to be the front-line warrior. But it might be the case, given party composition and one or two fallen comrades, for a rogue or a druid to have to shoulder that burden. So that's something that those characters might want to prepare for.

1/5

nosig wrote:
Lamontius wrote:
wait why not just a wand of mage armor

Duration is an hour per level, the wand nets me 1 hour per change.

If the wizard is >5th the pearl lasts alot longer.... and when we get to APL 8 and above it often lasts all day.

I've always kind of had a problem with the Meta-gamey aspect of:
Judge: "you've traveled for 2 weeks getting here, and just before entering town..."
Monk to Wizard: "tap me with my wand of mage armor"

ah, ok, I understand why you would use the PoP

but I absolutely disagree once again with the usage of a wand as meta-gamey

still that term is bandied about so much that it has essentially become subjective, so to each their own

Sovereign Court 5/5 RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

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Chris Mortika wrote:

Different people will have different recommendations. Here's mine:

Somewhere in the middle. It's not reasonable to expect most wizards to be the front-line warrior. But it might be the case, given party composition and one or two fallen comrades, for a rogue or a druid to have to shoulder that burden. So that's something that those characters might want to prepare for.

Aside,

When I built Rey, I bought a potion of mage armor and shield was on his spell list. The idea was at low levels, if he was low on/out of spells and his force bolts, he could cast shield drink the potion, grab his club and go into melee on full defense. Sure he couldn't hit the broad side of a bard, but he could flank and at least give someone a +2 to hit/sneak attack buddy.

Spoiler:
Yes, the typo is intentional for once.

Lantern Lodge 3/5

Lamontius wrote:

ah, ok, I understand why you would use the PoP

but I absolutely disagree once again with the usage of a wand as meta-gamey

still that term is bandied about so much that it has essentially become subjective, so to each their own

My personal opinion, with no offense intended to anyone who feels otherwise: one cannot play a game of this sort without metagaming. Metagaming in-character knowledge is not good, but is different from metagaming game mechanics.

Ever cast a Will save spell on an ogre because they have poor Will saves? You've metagamed.

Ever avoided casting a Fort spell on a cloud giant because they have huge Fort saves? You've metagamed.

Ever fought an ooze and thought "ooooh, my med BAB character can power attack this one!" because they have no AC, and proceeded to do so? You've metagamed.

For myself, there is a significant difference between in-character metagaming ("I know where you went last night!"), and game mechanic metagaming (playing your character effectively).

1/5

Lamontius wrote:
nosig wrote:
Lamontius wrote:
wait why not just a wand of mage armor

Duration is an hour per level, the wand nets me 1 hour per change.

If the wizard is >5th the pearl lasts alot longer.... and when we get to APL 8 and above it often lasts all day.

I've always kind of had a problem with the Meta-gamey aspect of:
Judge: "you've traveled for 2 weeks getting here, and just before entering town..."
Monk to Wizard: "tap me with my wand of mage armor"

ah, ok, I understand why you would use the PoP

but I absolutely disagree once again with the usage of a wand as meta-gamey

still that term is bandied about so much that it has essentially become subjective, so to each their own

He was referring to the fact that you travelled for weeks before reaching your destination, and never saw fit to use your wand. Then, all of a sudden you begin the scenario and you mysteriously know it would be a good idea to use your wand before adventuring further. It is metagamey and I might actually buy a pearl now on my non spellcasters. I never thought to do it that way.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/5 RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8

Matthew Morris wrote:
Chris Mortika wrote:

Different people will have different recommendations. Here's mine:

Somewhere in the middle. It's not reasonable to expect most wizards to be the front-line warrior. But it might be the case, given party composition and one or two fallen comrades, for a rogue or a druid to have to shoulder that burden. So that's something that those characters might want to prepare for.

Aside,

When I built Rey, I bought a potion of mage armor and shield was on his spell list. The idea was at low levels, if he was low on/out of spells and his force bolts, he could cast shield drink the potion, grab his club and go into melee on full defense. Sure he couldn't hit the broad side of a bard, but he could flank and at least give someone a +2 to hit/sneak attack buddy.

** spoiler omitted **

Full defense = total defense? If so, I don't think you threaten while doing that. Fighting defensively on the other hand... bravo ;)

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