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This archetype is based around creating a dragon riding class that doesn't break the game or create headaches for the GM. In essence it is a much more focused Summoner, who also gives up his Summon Monster Spell-like abilities. I would appreciate feedback and ideas, thanks. For instance, should there be a focused spell list separate from the summoners? Perhaps taken from the Sorcerer spell list?
Dragon Rider
(Summoner Archetype)
Summoner changed to Dragon-Rider. Eidolon changed to Draconic Mount.
Proficiencies
A Dragon-rider is proficient with all simple weapons, lances, whips (including Scorpion Whips) and bows. This alters the standard Summoner proficiencies.
Draconic Eidolon
Instead of an outsider, a Dragon-Rider’s eidolon has the “Dragon” creature type and the “Extraplanar” Subtype. Its statistics are changed from a standard eidolon as follows:
• HD: d12 (instead of d10)
• BAB: equal to total HD (fast progression)
• Saves: Good Fort, Good Reflex, poor Will
• Starts with Quadruped base form and the following Evolutions:
• Bite
• Limbs (legs) (2)
• Claws
• Dark-Vision
At 1st level the Dragon-rider chooses a dragon to model his draconic eidolon after. This choice cannot be changed later. This choice affects the eidolon's powers and resistances (Red dragon based eidolons have fire based powers and immunities for example). Typically these would be the chromatic/metallic dragons but could hypothetically be others (example: An Umbral Dragon based build could do negative energy damage).
Evolutions by level (In essence, the Draconic Eidolon has a set value of Evolutions gained at the set level, the Dragon-Rider has no control over these. The Draconic Eidolon's "base form" is modeled after one of the chromatic or Metallic dragons, this choice cannot be changed
1st: Bite, Claw
2nd: Low-Light Vision
3rd: Resistance
4th: Tail, Tail Slap
5th: Mount
6th: Flight (60ft.)
7th: Wing Buffet
8th: Magic Attack
9th: Breath Weapon
10th: Reach (bite)
11th: Immunity
13th: Large
15th: Spell Resistance
20th: Frightful Presence
Additionally, several other abilities may be gained. Evolutions like Gills, Swim, Climb or Energy Attack could be added at various levels.
Spirit of the Dragon
At first level, a Dragon Rider’s bond allows him to share in his Dragon’s essence and power. He may call upon this power a number of times per day equal to 3 + his charisma modifier. Each use lasts for one minute per level and takes a standard action to activate.
This ability grants him Natural Armor enhancement of +1, which increases by +1 every two levels (maximum +10). This ability also grants him two claw attacks that deal 1d4 damage (if medium) and a bite attack that deals 1d6 damage (if medium). At 5th level, these claws and bite attacks are considered magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming DR. At 7th level, the damage increases by one step to 1d6 points of damage (if medium) and 1d8 (for the bite). At 13th level, you may spend a swift action to empower these claws and bite attacks to deal an additional 1d6 points of damage of your energy type on a successful hit.
At 3rd level, this ability grants you Resist Energy 5 to the energy type your dragon is attuned to. At 9th level this increases to Resist Energy 10, at 15th level this increases to Resist Energy 20, at 17th level this grants you immunity to your attuned energy.
At 11th level, you may grow a pair of wings as a swift action while Spirit of the Dragon is active, granting you fly speed of 60 ft. (average).
This ability replaces Summon Monster I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII, and IX.
At 8th level, activating Spirit of the Dragon is reduced from a standard action to a move action. This replaces Transposition.
At 19th level, activating Spirit of the Dragon is reduced from a move action to a swift action. This replaces Gate.
Dragon Shape I
At 10th level you may take the form of a dragon (as if casting Form of the Dragon I), the form you take must match the thematic element of your bonded dragon and cannot be changed. Each use of this ability consumes one use of your Spirit of the Dragon power. This ability replaces Aspect.
Dragon Shape II
At 18th level your Dragon Shape ability functions as Form of the Dragon II, at lasts for ten minutes per level. This ability replaces Greater Aspect.
Dragon Shape III
At 20th level you’re connection to the dragons is perfected and your Dragon Shape ability functions as Form of the Dragon III and you may remain in that form for one hour per level. This ability replaces Twin eidolon.
Diminished Spell-Casting
Dragon-Riders cast one fewer spell of each level than normal. If this reduces the number to 0, he may cast spells of that level only if his Charisma allows bonus spells of that level.
This sir is an interesting proposal, I think I'm gonna mull this over.
Midgard s book of Drakes has what you're looking for.
This is actually perfect for an npc I need for my home game...
I'm too tired to comment any further really but I like it a lot! Props!
Midgard s book of Drakes has what you're looking for.
Well Kobold Press' Book of Drakes Alternate Summoner Drake Tamer is similar, but I do think this is significantly different. I'm currently working on a PrC for the Drake Tamer that is different again - it should appear in the first issue of the Yggdrasil Fanzine for Kobold Press' Midgard Campaign Setting.
This is actually perfect for an npc I need for my home game...
I'm too tired to comment any further really but I like it a lot! Props!
Thank you, that is quite complimentary.
I am not 100% sure this even needs reduced casting, all in all good work though. I am betting that a player of mine will want to try this sucker out in my next campaign.
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This looks pretty interesting. Though I very much like the super genius games dragon rider, doing it with the summoner seems a bit more practical in general terms.
Though given the class is called the dragon rider, shouldnt mount be gained as an automatic or first level evolution?
Also, I am not clear on some of the evolutions. Does the dragon simply gain no evolutions at first level? Or are you saying that at first level it gets the improved version of the bite evolution and has 4 claw attacks? Because this would exceed the normal limitation on natural attacks for eidolons. I think maybe the improved bite and mount would be more appropriate at first level instead and think of something else to put in for level 5.
And how exactly are the other evolutions included? Does the eidolon get some kind of reduced evolution pool?
dot
Thank you all for the suggestions and compliments, and by all means keep them coming!
This looks pretty interesting. Though I very much like the super genius games dragon rider, doing it with the summoner seems a bit more practical in general terms.
Though given the class is called the dragon rider, shouldnt mount be gained as an automatic or first level evolution?
Also, I am not clear on some of the evolutions. Does the dragon simply gain no evolutions at first level? Or are you saying that at first level it gets the improved version of the bite evolution and has 4 claw attacks? Because this would exceed the normal limitation on natural attacks for eidolons. I think maybe the improved bite and mount would be more appropriate at first level instead and think of something else to put in for level 5.
And how exactly are the other evolutions included? Does the eidolon get some kind of reduced evolution pool?
Hmm...well, its more of a set thing for the "eidolon", it gains the listed evolutions. It is separate from the normal base forms, evolution choices ect. No evolution pool, it just gains abilities as it levels.
As for mount at 5th level, I apparently did not write it in but I had intended that once the dragon had mount, the rider could...well, ride it as long as they were of at least the same size category (because it doesn't get the Large evolution until much later).
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Someone has found one of the most breakable classes in the game, and found a good way to break it even further.
Not only do you have a souped up eidolon, the summoner has become Druidzilla.
I agree. It is an interesting concept, but the OP is taking an over-powered class and powering it up further. It needs to be toned down.
Also, with the massive amount of changes, I don't see this as an archetype. It really is it's own class.
Someone has found one of the most breakable classes in the game, and found a good way to break it even further.
Not only do you have a souped up eidolon, the summoner has become Druidzilla.
I agree. It is an interesting concept, but the OP is taking an over-powered class and powering it up further. It needs to be toned down.
Also, with the massive amount of changes, I don't see this as an archetype. It really is it's own class.
At first glance I thought the eidolon was legal, but apparently it is not, it goes over points at 8th level and stays that way. Sure there is some trade off of having a set pool instead of having the freedom to choose, but I do think it should stay inside its points limit.
I also think a reasonable trade off for the non-eidolon abilities would be complete loss of spell casting, not just diminished casting, but zero casting.
As for mount at 5th level, I apparently did not write it in but I had intended that once the dragon had mount, the rider could...well, ride it as long as they were of at least the same size category (because it doesn't get the Large evolution until much later).
But why doesnt it get mount at 1st level. Its called the dragon RIDER, not dude and his dragon buddy, it should get the mount evolution asap.
To be fair I've seen posts of eidolons perfectly legal that are more dangerous than that. Any ever see what a con poison focused eidolon can do *shudder*. not to mention not getting pounce, which is the linchpin in most eidolon damage builds. couldn't spirit of the dragon simply be replaced by the draconic sorcerer bloodline? The spirit of the dragon stuff seems pretty cool, but form of the dragon is a very powerful spell. I think if you went the bloodline route, then you wouldn't need the spellcasting reduction.
Interestingly enough, I came up with an idea like this for a drake rider-type class long before Pathfinder even existed, back in the early 3.5 days. When I saw the Pathfinder Summoner class, I felt it was a perfect template to use to update my drake rider class to Pathfinder rules, yet have not had the time finish it.
One thing I did though was completely remove the spells. My version was a more martial type that not only fought on their drake mount, but alongside it. There were also 4 types of bodies for the drake that could not be changed: Feline, Canine, Raptor, Serpentine. As the class leveled up, they gained more points for their drake to 'learn' abilities.
Also, it would be considered an Alternate Class, not an archetype.
Now where did I put those files...
This is fantastic! I had created my own revamp of dragon rider and this is way interesting archetype for Summoner. Bravo good sir :)
Thanks!
Someone has found one of the most breakable classes in the game, and found a good way to break it even further.
Not only do you have a souped up eidolon, the summoner has become Druidzilla.
I agree. It is an interesting concept, but the OP is taking an over-powered class and powering it up further. It needs to be toned down.
Also, with the massive amount of changes, I don't see this as an archetype. It really is it's own class.
Thank you for your congenial insights, clearly the idea is good but my process is flawed.
To be fair I've seen posts of eidolons perfectly legal that are more dangerous than that. Any ever see what a con poison focused eidolon can do *shudder*. not to mention not getting pounce, which is the linchpin in most eidolon damage builds. couldn't spirit of the dragon simply be replaced by the draconic sorcerer bloodline? The spirit of the dragon stuff seems pretty cool, but form of the dragon is a very powerful spell. I think if you went the bloodline route, then you wouldn't need the spellcasting reduction.
Y'know I rather like the idea of the draconic sorcerer tie in...that could be quite nice. Maybe there should be a split, a Cavalier style alternate class that makes you a psuedo dragon rider (for melee types) and a Summoner alternate class for a more spell focused psuedo dragon rider. Upon further reading, yes the Form of the Dragon ability is quite powerful and probably should be a 18th/20th level capstone ability.
But why doesnt it get mount at 1st level. Its called the dragon RIDER, not dude and his dragon buddy, it should get the mount evolution asap.
As for mount at 5th level, I apparently did not write it in but I had intended that once the dragon had mount, the rider could...well, ride it as long as they were of at least the same size category (because it doesn't get the Large evolution until much later).
You have a point, and personally I don't see that as overpowered.
Something like starting evolutions: Bite, Claws, Mount, Limbs (x2)? I'll have to rewrite and edit some things before adjusting and reposting it.
Is it Necro Thread Week or something?
And when, on these boards, is it not? :)
I would make it large and mount right away but roll back on the 1d12 hit die and full BAB.
I think it is indeed probably overpowered as it stands. I would not be afraid to effectively give it "more" evolution points than the normal eidolon, though, since you are essentially forcing the eidolon to make certain choices (and thus take away a player's latitude to customize). I would want my dragon to be huge eventually too, but give the dragon rider some means to reduce his mount's size should the need arise (that is a problem even if the eidolon is just large).
I would think you should make mention of that one spell that lets you move evolution points around. Specifically, you should disallow it and spells like it.
I would make it large and mount right away but roll back on the 1d12 hit die and full BAB.
I think it is indeed probably overpowered as it stands. I would not be afraid to effectively give it "more" evolution points than the normal eidolon, though, since you are essentially forcing the eidolon to make certain choices (and thus take away a player's latitude to customize). I would want my dragon to be huge eventually too, but give the dragon rider some means to reduce his mount's size should the need arise (that is a problem even if the eidolon is just large).
I would think you should make mention of that one spell that lets you move evolution points around. Specifically, you should disallow it and spells like it.
Given that these "forced changes" are not exactly disadvantageous to the eidolon, that's not the reason to give a discount on costs.
I still inherently dislike building a Dragon-Rider as a summoner archetype, because it's an amazing buff for one of the most powerful classes in the game. For my book, I would prefer a Fighter archetype that has to rely on building a relationship with a suitable drake type creature of the draconic subtype as opposed to a true dragon, essentially something on the Pern model. I would not however try to "balance" this as I would restrict the use of such an archetype to a Pern like campaign where your major foes would also be members of this archetype.
Loss of flexibility should definitely be taken into account in terms of balance. For an existing example of where that is done, just look at the Dragoon fighter archetype. At level 1, they get 2 feats: skill focus ride and mounted combat. They get 2 feats that level because those are the feats they are forced to take. Though one should keep in mind that skill focus: ride is not that great. However by the same token: mount is not that great compared to competing options.
And if you knock off the d12 hit die and full BAB then the power increase is not that great. Moreover, I would be willing to hand out a pretty decent amount of effective evolution points in exchange for that decreased spellcasting.
There may need to be something done about all that dragon shape business, though.
Eidolons without pounce or wacky specialized builds don't impress me much at higher levels.