Paizo Top Nav Branding
  • Hello, Guest! |
  • Sign In |
  • My Account |
  • Shopping Cart |
  • Help/FAQ
About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game
Pathfinder Society

Pathfinder Beginner Box

Pathfinder Adventure Card Game

Pathfinder Comics

Pathfinder Legends

RPG Superstar 2015

Flowing Monk Build


Advice


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Hi Everyone...still being new to pathfinder I'm entering back into a game after having to take a personal leave for family issues.

I'm coming back at lvl 13

So I was thinking...since this is my 3rd character ever why not try Elf/Monk/LN
Looking to build a tripping and disarming monk (Quarterstaff and Sai)
Saw Flowing Monk - looks cool but do I really need to do crane style etc? or can I just do feat trees for tripping and disarming? Please remember I'm still new to this so simple is better.

My goal is to create a character that is a battle field support. We have 3 heavy hitters, 2 protectors, and 1.5 healers. I'm looking to bounce from enemy to enemy tripping and disarming them as they are then attacked by everyone else.

Here is what I was going to do:
25 point buy
Mod Total
STR - 12 = 1 12
DEX - 14 = 4 (18) 4th & 8th level boost
CON - 14 = 1 14
INT - 13 = 2 13
WIS - 16 = 3 (17) 12th level boost
CHA - 10 = 0 10

lvl 1 bonus feat - Weapon Finesse
lvl 2 bonus feat - Improved Trip
lvl 6 bonus feat - Improved Disarm
lvl 10 bonus feat - Repositioning Strike
lvl 14 bonus feat -
lvl 18 bonus feat -

Feats:
1 Weapon Focus (quarterstaff)
3 Combat Expertise
5 Weapons Specialization (quarterstaff)
7 Greater Disarm
9 Quarterstaff Master - use quarter staff one handed
11 Tripping Staff - Treat a quarterstaff as if it had the trip weapon special feature******(not 100% sure what they mean by "Treat a quarterstaff as if it had the trip weapon special feature" can someone please enlighten me)
13 Tripping Twirl - Use a quarterstaff to make a trip attempt against all adjacent enemies
15
17
19

Quarterstaff and Sai and for range Shurikens

Community what do you think?


Normally, if you fail a 'trip' check by 10 or more, you fall prone instead of your target. However, if you use a weapon with the 'trip' special, you have the option to drop your weapon instead of falling prone. So treating the quarterstaff as if it had trip only means that if you fail your trip check by more than 10 and you're using your quarterstaff to make the trip (using only attack bonuses pertinent to the quarterstaff as opposed to unarmed strike, sai, etc), you can drop the quarterstaff to avoid falling prone.


Kazaan- thank you

Sovereign Court

1 person marked this as a favorite.

You should definitely take a look at this guide: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/treatmonks-lab/treantmon k-s-guide-to-monks

I can tell you from the get go that this build will not be very effective, for a very simple reason: you have no strength! Strength is the primary factor in your CMB. Without strength, you won't be tripping anything. Oh, and check with your GM - are there a lot of humanoids in this campaign? Because if you're primarily fighting monsters (especially those with many legs or who are larger than Medium) tripping is simply not possible. (Big things in later levels have CMDs well into the 40s and 50s.)

Also, for this, you DEFINITELY want a Maneuver Master monk, not a Flowing. Flowing is primarily for monks who want to do the weapon finesse route - which, sadly, doesn't work with quarterstaffs.

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Weapon finesse will work with CMB, if you are using an unarmed strike to make the attempt. However, as Reynard said you can't use weapon finesse with a quarterstaff. I also don't like Flowing Monk because they give up fast movement, and monks are supposed to be FAST. The Staff Mastery feats are a waste imo unless you are a Staff Magus. Also, you have Weapon Specialization taken before Quarterstaff Master, which isn't legal.


Reynard- thank you for the pointers and info.I will look into this. I'm under the impression that if I took Weapon Finesse that I would use my DEX rather than my STR...i guess not (back to the drawing boards)

We see a mix of creatures. mostly humanoids in my opinion.


Imbicatus - thank you for the info. I forgot to switch those two around before posting I wanted to keep it in check as much as possible. this was my bad


What you'd need is Agile Maneuvers which allows you to sub Dex regardless of what weapon you're using (and, for that matter, even on maneuvers not weapon-based).

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If you want to make a monk build focused on tripping, I would recommend a halfling underfoot adept. They can trip ANYTHING that isn't immune to tripping, regardless of size.


Imbicatus wrote:
If you want to make a monk build focused on tripping, I would recommend a halfling underfoot adept. They can trip ANYTHING that isn't immune to tripping, regardless of size.

Well, they're nice in and of themselves, but halflings start as Small so, at lvl 4, they can still only trip as if they were a medium creature. However, you can tweak the system by taking Racial Heritage(Halfling) which would require you be Human, Scion of Humanity Aasimar, or have some other means to qualify as Human for feats and then you can be a medium creature as a base and the lvl 4 ability of UFA would let you trip as if you were large. It gets better from there, capping out at tripping as if you're colossal at only lvl 16 rather than lvl 20 if you were a base small creature. Throw in Ki Throw for good measure to spend Ki to expand your size limitation on tripping and shift them around and you've possibly got an even better build for tripping and repositions than a flowing monk, so long as you don't intend to be a race without access to the Humanoid(Human) type.


Thanks you guys. I would like to keep the trip and disarm (if not feasible then I can move on). as an option would I be better off boosting Str rather than DEX & how about normal core Monk rather than all these Archetypes?


Reynard_the_fox wrote:

You should definitely take a look at this guide: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/treatmonks-lab/treantmon k-s-guide-to-monks

I can tell you from the get go that this build will not be very effective, for a very simple reason: you have no strength! Strength is the primary factor in your CMB. Without strength, you won't be tripping anything. Oh, and check with your GM - are there a lot of humanoids in this campaign? Because if you're primarily fighting monsters (especially those with many legs or who are larger than Medium) tripping is simply not possible. (Big things in later levels have CMDs well into the 40s and 50s.)

Also, for this, you DEFINITELY want a Maneuver Master monk, not a Flowing. Flowing is primarily for monks who want to do the weapon finesse route - which, sadly, doesn't work with quarterstaffs.

Maneuver Master is the way to go thank you Reynard for the save


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

I would agree boosting STR is better than DEX. STR frees you from having to take a feat (Weapon Finesse) and opens you up to using more weapons.

I disagree entirely that the Flowing Monk is weak, or that the Maneuver Master is better.

Consider this,
At first level
Be Half-Elf, take ancestral arms to get Exotic Weapon Profiency with the Kusari-Gama.
Take Improved Trip as your Monk Feat,
And Furry's Fall as your 1st level feat.

With a 25 Point Buy
16+2, str
15, dex
14, con
10, int
14, wis
8, cha

You will have a +8 CMB, more importantly you can flurry to make two trip attempts at range.

If you are charged you get an attack of opportunity (Which you can use to trip someone) and then your Flowing Monk ability to trip them if that misses.

At higher levels, use your unarmed strike for primary damage, while holding the kusari-gama to threaten range attacks of opportunity. (Combat Reflexes will be awesome at 3rd level)


Flowing master's big deal is reactive abilities. Anybody attacks or moves around you and you get to maneuver and debuff.

For making maneuvers work, maneuver master plus lore warden fighter, other than a rage cycling barbarian, is the way to go, in my opinion.

s13, d15+2(+3 lvls)=20, c16-2=14, i12+2=14, w14, ch8
LW1: WeaponFocus, WeaponFinesse
LW2: AgileManeuvers, CombatExpertise
MM1: ImprovedTrip, KiThrow, monkcetera
MM2: ImprovedBullRush
LW3: ImprovedDisarm, +2CMB/D
MM3
LW4: TWF, BreakGuard
LW5: weapon training
MM4: GreaterTrip
MM5
MM6: GreaterBullRush
LW6: CombatReflexes
LW7: SpinningThrow, another +2, 13

In the future add Janni Style/ Tempest, Improved Ki Throw, Greater WF, and anything else that seems fun.. taking away the disarming would give you 3 more feats to play with, and spreading out the stats to be strength based would save 2 feats and the agile at the cost of more MAD.

Gear: Agile AoMF, Brawling Celestial Chain, gloves of dueling....


Thank you everyone for the info...got me some homework to do.

Sczarni

1 person marked this as a favorite.
hate4seven wrote:

Hi Everyone...still being new to pathfinder I'm entering back into a game after having to take a personal leave for family issues.

I'm coming back at lvl 13

So I was thinking...since this is my 3rd character ever why not try Elf/Monk/LN
Looking to build a tripping and disarming monk (Quarterstaff and Sai)
Saw Flowing Monk - looks cool but do I really need to do crane style etc? or can I just do feat trees for tripping and disarming? Please remember I'm still new to this so simple is better.

My goal is to create a character that is a battle field support. We have 3 heavy hitters, 2 protectors, and 1.5 healers. I'm looking to bounce from enemy to enemy tripping and disarming them as they are then attacked by everyone else.

Here is what I was going to do:
25 point buy
Mod Total
STR - 12 = 1 12
DEX - 14 = 4 (18) 4th & 8th level boost
CON - 14 = 1 14
INT - 13 = 2 13
WIS - 16 = 3 (17) 12th level boost
CHA - 10 = 0 10

lvl 1 bonus feat - Weapon Finesse
lvl 2 bonus feat - Improved Trip
lvl 6 bonus feat - Improved Disarm
lvl 10 bonus feat - Repositioning Strike
lvl 14 bonus feat -
lvl 18 bonus feat -

Feats:
1 Weapon Focus (quarterstaff)
3 Combat Expertise
5 Weapons Specialization (quarterstaff)
7 Greater Disarm
9 Quarterstaff Master - use quarter staff one handed
11 Tripping Staff - Treat a quarterstaff as if it had the trip weapon special feature******(not 100% sure what they mean by "Treat a quarterstaff as if it had the trip weapon special feature" can someone please enlighten me)
13 Tripping Twirl - Use a quarterstaff to make a trip attempt against all adjacent enemies
15
17
19

Quarterstaff and Sai and for range Shurikens

Community what do you think?

Personally, I wouldn't do it. It is a really cool concept in theory, but you'll probably get super bored with it. Keep in mind you cannot trip and disarm Everything. There will be plenty of foes that it will be extremely tough, or impossible to use this against. I find it scary to focus on Combat Maneuvers unless the whole campaign happens to be bipeds. You can still get improved disarm and trip as a regular monk or qinggong or whatever, focusing less heavily on it and more on other things like your monk abilities, damage, flurry or two weapon fighting, stances/styles, SURVIVAL, crippling in other ways(stunning fists, punishing kicks, touch of serenity, quivering palm etc) and moving quickly to your target. Keep reading through all of the feats in all of the books and find the things you like, set them aside, check those requirements, etc. There are a lot of archetypes that feel... useless. So choose wisely : P

There's my opinion you asked for sir!


Kazumetsa Raijin wrote:


Personally, I wouldn't do it. It is a really cool concept in theory, but you'll probably get super bored with it. Keep in mind you cannot trip and disarm Everything. There will be plenty of foes that it will be extremely tough, or...

Thank you Kazumetsa Raijin. Great points

Sczarni

1 person marked this as a favorite.

You're welcome! Don't get too deterred or discouraged either. There are a lot of options open :) Personally I enjoy Qinggong Monk and mixing it, if desired, with another Archetype. Qinggong is kind of the "build-a-bear" of Monk archetypes it feels.

Sovereign Court

Qinggongs are great! There's really no reason not to be one, as you can choose to replace only the monk abilities you don't want. Trading, say, Wholeness of Body for an awesome SLA is great!

Paizo / Messageboards / Paizo Publishing / Pathfinder® / Pathfinder RPG / Advice / Flowing Monk Build All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.

©2002–2014 Paizo Inc.®. Need help? Email customer.service@paizo.com or call 425-250-0800 during our business hours: Monday–Friday, 10 AM–5 PM Pacific Time. View our privacy policy. Paizo Inc., Paizo, the Paizo golem logo, Pathfinder, the Pathfinder logo, Pathfinder Society, GameMastery, and Planet Stories are registered trademarks of Paizo Inc., and Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, Pathfinder Player Companion, Pathfinder Modules, Pathfinder Tales, Pathfinder Battles, Pathfinder Online, PaizoCon, RPG Superstar, The Golem's Got It, Titanic Games, the Titanic logo, and the Planet Stories planet logo are trademarks of Paizo Inc. Dungeons & Dragons, Dragon, Dungeon, and Polyhedron are registered trademarks of Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and have been used by Paizo Inc. under license. Most product names are trademarks owned or used under license by the companies that publish those products; use of such names without mention of trademark status should not be construed as a challenge to such status.