Brewer's Guide to the Blockbuster Wizard


Advice

201 to 250 of 399 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | next > last >>

ZanThrax wrote:
Which link is down? Brewer's original dropbox link or my sky drive re-host?

The original drop box link is down. A quick check didn't find me your link? Which page is that on?


A few posts from the bottom of the previous page.


Yours works perfectly. Thank you very much.


ZanThrax wrote:
Here's a link. I copied it into my SkyDrive; that'll let people access it until KBrewer can rehost.

^ ZanThrax was nice enough to share this link.

Scarab Sages

Any thoughts on whether a Blockbuster Arcanist would be better? Able to take the Admixture School and the Orc Bloodline via Exploits, able to spend reservoir points for DC and CL boosts, will apparently be able to take a Familiar Exploit in the final version.


minoritarian wrote:
Any thoughts on whether a Blockbuster Arcanist would be better? Able to take the Admixture School and the Orc Bloodline via Exploits, able to spend reservoir points for DC and CL boosts, will apparently be able to take a Familiar Exploit in the final version.

I haven't looked too hard into the Blockbuster Arcanist, but a Peri-blooded Aasimar would make a good start for the rebuild.


Just wondering why Heighten Spell doesn't seem to get any mention. Wouldn't a higher DC be needed later on?


Azten wrote:
Just wondering why Heighten Spell doesn't seem to get any mention. Wouldn't a higher DC be needed later on?

But it also increases the spell slot which is not that great.

My question is: If I take Elemental Focus (fire) will it apply to all of my fireballs even if I admix them? I know that it works with Elemental Spell because it doesn't change the descriptor, but Admixture does so I am leaning towards no...


Heighten is strange in the way it interacts with other metamagic feats, but if you aren't prepping blasts higher than Fireball, why not?


Because other metamagic is almost always going to be better than a slight DC bump.


I guess I just think 'Reflex for half' is kind big. Probably pre-game jitters for the blasting wizard/Wordcasting sorcerer(haven't decided) I'm going to play in Sperpent's Skull.


Wasn't this build (which iirc relies heavily on the idea that you can heavily metamagic low level spells then use low level metamagic rods on them still) more or less dismantled by an FAQ in October or November of last year?


Metamagic rods aren't integral to the build as far as I can see.


Nah cause those of us in the know have been using Staff of the Master (Necromancy) instead of Rods anyway.


Rods are just gravy for the blaster, they're not integral. But even with the FAQ, they're still worth considering, they just aren't the super cheap way for high level characters to really get crazy.

On an unrelated note; does anyone know what happened to Brewer? He hasn't posted in nearly two months, and the last thing he did post looked like the sort of thing he'd be following up on.


Azten wrote:
Heighten is strange in the way it interacts with other metamagic feats, but if you aren't prepping blasts higher than Fireball, why not?

Persistent would generally be better if you can fit the spare levels.


As I think I've said before (long ago): great guide. Both a very fun read and a very compelling character.

A quick note though: your comment on persistent spell isn't really doing it justice. Some numbers:

A spell with a normal succes rate of 40% becomes 64% with persistent, so that's a DC boost of +4.8.
A spell with a normal succes rate of 50% becomes 75% with persistent, so that's a DC boost of +5.
A spell with a normal succes rate of 60% becomes 84% with persistent, so that's a DC boost of +4.8.
A spell with a normal succes rate of 70% becomes 91% with persistent, so that's a DC boost of +4.2.
A spell with a normal succes rate of 80% becomes 96% with persistent, so that's a DC boost of +3.2.
A spell with a normal succes rate of 90% becomes 99% with persistent, so that's a DC boost of +1.8.

So unless a spell's basic DC is already really good, persistent is more like a +4 than a +3. And for spells with a not-so-great DC (or enemies with good saves) it can be as much as +5. Also, it's the only way to increase succes rates beyond 95% when you really really need something to stick, as they need to roll a 20 twice to auto-save.

Liberty's Edge

Heighten has the benefit of allowing a spell to bypass certain protections, however, such as Globe of Invulnerability, by raising it's actual level as opposed to just it's used slot level.


Fomsie wrote:
Heighten has the benefit of allowing a spell to bypass certain protections, however, such as Globe of Invulnerability, by raising it's actual level as opposed to just it's used slot level.

It does but I don't think I have ever seen someone use a Globe largely because they are immobile and stationary casters are often dead casters.


Azten wrote:
I guess I just think 'Reflex for half' is kind big. Probably pre-game jitters for the blasting wizard/Wordcasting sorcerer(haven't decided) I'm going to play in Sperpent's Skull.

I find that in practice, mooks that fail their saves die. Mooks that take half damage are usually still so messed up that they become 1 hit kills for the rest of the party. Mostly, the BBEG is the only enemy that will reliably make saves. Change tactics to buff and control when facing one if it shrugs off your first blast.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Anzyr wrote:
Nah cause those of us in the know have been using Staff of the Master (Necromancy) instead of Rods anyway.

Ah, those 'in the know' like spending a week or more to replace the charges expended in a single adventuring day?

At least with a rod of quicken, you can still quicken a maximized fireball. You need to be able to quicken a 6th level spell, so you can't use a minor rod, but you can do it. With the rod of the master, you can't do that at all. You have 10 charges, which can be spent on 10 levels worth of metamagic feats that you already know. And it requires you burn a 3rd level spell, one per day for every charge you expended.

Useful. Hardly replaces the rod.


Kain Darkwind wrote:
Anzyr wrote:
Nah cause those of us in the know have been using Staff of the Master (Necromancy) instead of Rods anyway.

Ah, those 'in the know' like spending a week or more to replace the charges expended in a single adventuring day?

At least with a rod of quicken, you can still quicken a maximized fireball. You need to be able to quicken a 6th level spell, so you can't use a minor rod, but you can do it. With the rod of the master, you can't do that at all. You have 10 charges, which can be spent on 10 levels worth of metamagic feats that you already know. And it requires you burn a 3rd level spell, one per day for every charge you expended.

Useful. Hardly replaces the rod.

Those of us in the know get more then one (their cheap why not?) and tend to get Fast Time Demiplanes to recharge them in. The clutch ability of the Staff is that while yes you need the feat, thats fine since you should be using the Staff on Quicken (because seriously... Quicken), and your Quicken via Staff will not raise the spell level, letting you freely dump on metamagic like a good mage.

Dont' get me wrong I still love me some utility rods for metamagic I'm not picking up (and of course the Lesser Metamagic Rod of Extend that everyone should buy), but if you want to toss out metamagic'd spells - Staff of the Master Necromancy only 30,000 gp accept no substitutes.


Anzyr wrote:
Kain Darkwind wrote:
Anzyr wrote:
Nah cause those of us in the know have been using Staff of the Master (Necromancy) instead of Rods anyway.

Ah, those 'in the know' like spending a week or more to replace the charges expended in a single adventuring day?

At least with a rod of quicken, you can still quicken a maximized fireball. You need to be able to quicken a 6th level spell, so you can't use a minor rod, but you can do it. With the rod of the master, you can't do that at all. You have 10 charges, which can be spent on 10 levels worth of metamagic feats that you already know. And it requires you burn a 3rd level spell, one per day for every charge you expended.

Useful. Hardly replaces the rod.

Those of us in the know get more then one (their cheap why not?) and tend to get Fast Time Demiplanes to recharge them in. The clutch ability of the Staff is that while yes you need the feat, thats fine since you should be using the Staff on Quicken (because seriously... Quicken), and your Quicken via Staff will not raise the spell level, letting you freely dump on metamagic like a good mage.

Dont' get me wrong I still love me some utility rods for metamagic I'm not picking up (and of course the Lesser Metamagic Rod of Extend that everyone should buy), but if you want to toss out metamagic'd spells - Staff of the Master Necromancy only 30,000 gp accept no substitutes.

30,000gp for a staff of the master. You can't snag craft staff until 11th level at the earliest at which point (assuming you have cash on hand) it represents almost 20% of your wealth per staff. You can't afford to buy one until 13th level (at which point it remains 20% of you wealth per staff), assuming you can find one at all.

If your GM gives you nothing but piles of coins for treasure and plenty of time for crafting I could see you having multiple staves (2-3) of the master at around ~15th level. If you are buying around 16th or 17th if you can find them (at which point you can afford 2, or maybe 3 at the top end).

In either case they still aren't replacing rods, since to equal a metamagic rod of say, quicken, you need 12 staves of the master and are burning 12 3rd level spells or higher to recharge the staves each day.

I suppose if you are 17th or 18th level and have a fast time demiplane you can cut that number in half if you are able to retreat to the demiplane after every day and spend two days in the demiplane for everyone done day adventuring (1-1 ratio of real time), in which case you are only lugging around 6 staves costing 180,000gp, expending 12 3rd level slots or higher, and spending every other day hiding in your demiplane for the same effect as a metamagic rod.

The Staff of the Master is a cool item. It provides the possibility of a little bit of extra pep when situations turn really ugly at a cheaper rate than a metamagic rod. But don't pretend it is a replacement for them on a regular basis even at high levels.

At low levels it certainly isn't, given you can't even afford one (much less multiple) until you get into the double digits in terms of level. The entire claim is laughable.


Hardly, since when your stacking metamagic you don't need a rod of empower or maximize, you need a way to make the most expensive metamagic (ie. Quicken) cost nothing, thus freeing you up to stack more metamagic on your spell. In this context (which you'll note is the one I'm discussing) rods are essentially useless. In order to use a Intensified, Maximized, Empowered Fireball for example, the Staff will allow you to also Quicken it a function that Rod is actually incpabable of doing. Furthremore once you have 2 rods, you can actually Quicken spells 4 times a day for 60,000 gp compared to a Greater Rod of Quicken that's only 3/day and which will set you back a staggering 170,000 gp. For the price of one Greater Metamagic Rod of Quicken I could have 5 almost 6 Staff of the Master (Necromancy).

Quite frankly, there is literally no reason to go with Rods outside of utility. I'm sorry Peter Stewart, but the math and facts just aren't in your favor.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Heymitch wrote:

Those admixture wizards should never be allowed to take Leadership.

They go through way too many followers through "research".

"Oh, Number 43, be a good chap and stand on that rather large X over there, would you? Excellent."

That cumulative -2 on the leadership score has to take it's toll eventually. :)


Anzyr wrote:

Hardly, since when your stacking metamagic you don't need a rod of empower or maximize, you need a way to make the most expensive metamagic (ie. Quicken) cost nothing, thus freeing you up to stack more metamagic on your spell. In this context (which you'll note is the one I'm discussing) rods are essentially useless. In order to use a Intensified, Maximized, Empowered Fireball for example, the Staff will allow you to also Quicken it a function that Rod is actually incpabable of doing. Furthremore once you have 2 rods, you can actually Quicken spells 4 times a day for 60,000 gp compared to a Greater Rod of Quicken that's only 3/day and which will set you back a staggering 170,000 gp. For the price of one Greater Metamagic Rod of Quicken I could have 5 almost 6 Staff of the Master (Necromancy).

Quite frankly, there is literally no reason to go with Rods outside of utility. I'm sorry Peter Stewart, but the math and facts just aren't in your favor.

I'm not really sure what you are trying to communicate here, because you don't seem to make any kind of rational or reasonable argument. All I could really see is 'you are wrong because of reasons'. That said, let me go over this again with a couple minor corrections to help show you exactly why a staff of the master is not a replacement for metamagic rods.

Correction 1: You cannot recharge multiple staves in a single day, so you will never be able to equal production of a metamagic rod on a sustained level.
Correction 2: The staff of the master explicitly prohibits using it on spells with metamagic applied to them.

A metamagic rod nets you three uses a day. It recharges every day. You can use it on spells that already have metamagic applied, assuming your rod is high enough level for the modified spell level. You can pretty much assume that it applies on every adventure and every day because it recharges innately. They're expensive but highly useful tools.

A staff of the master nets you 10 charges but costs a number of charges equal to the metamagic cost. It requires you expend a spell slot to recharge it and can only regain one charge per day. You cannot recharge more than one staff per day. You cannot use a staff of the master on a spell that already has metamagic applied to it, as per RAW.

Quote:
No more than one feat can be applied to a spell cast by the wielder in this way.

You can buy multiple staves of the master at high levels (15+, as I noted in my post) but this becomes increasingly inefficient because you can only recharge one per day, they burn through charges at a high rate.

A staff of the master is thus a useful tool, especially to apply metamagic on the fly (for instance, quickening a spell in a round in which you have to get multiple off) in emergency circumstances, but it is not in any way shape or form a replacement for metamagic rods. It is not applicable every day (unless you are taking off many days between each day of adventuring), does not apply to spells that already have metamagic applied, and is as an every day tool highly inefficient.

You'll note, I allow for the possibility that your campaign involves weeks off between each day of adventuring. If that is how your particular table plays the staff of the master is more efficient. For the vast majority of players however I suspect this is not the case.

Beyond that limitation, no one can afford a staff of the master until level 11 at the earliest (with crafting and liquid currency in mass). For purchase they are probably not on the table until level 13 or 14. Multiple staves of the master do not apply at all until the last couple of levels (17-20) based on the wealth by level chart.

Basically what that means is even if you could recharge multiple staves and even if you could use a staff of the master to apply metamagic you are still talking about an item that has no meaning at all for the majority of a character's lifespan and only a major impact at the highest levels when you are still probably better off with a rod of greater quicken (which you can afford) because it applies every day.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

So those of you in the know don't bother with RAW, which says you get 1 staff per day to recharge.

Or that you can't stack metamagic on spells cast via staves of the master.

Or that your 'fast time' demiplane causes time to run at a rate of 2 days per 1 outside, IF you have a 9th level spell. So it only takes you a week and a half to recharge two staves, instead of one week to recharge one staff...hope nothing was happening Tuesday, because Anzy the Archmage needs a half month leave to recover from a single encounter.

I think if your 'in the know' system ignores 80% of the levels available in the game, it probably isn't indicative of anything approaching the normative experience. Even if it works for you then, which seems dubious. Par for the course with you though.


You... really have no idea how Staff of the Master works do you? A few corrections since your corrections have some glaring flaws.

"No more than one feat can be applied to a spell cast by the wielder in this way."

Means you can only apply one feat using the Staff of Master. It does not mean that you cannot apply a metamagic feat with Staff of the Master to a spell that already has metamagic feats on it. So close, please try again.

Next, the only time the "1 charge per day" is going to come up if your for some reason constantly adventuring. 5 days off is enough time to fully recharge a single staff (and again you can have close to 6 of these for the price of one metamagic rod.

I'm sorry but Staff of the Master is just plain better.

Edit: @ Kain Darkwind - You can stack metamagic with Staff of the Master. You are however limited to only applying one feat with it as above. Your Demiplane is permanent so it doesn't cost you anything more then a 5th level spell slot to return to it. And again... it takes a whopping 5 days to fully recharge a staff. And remember you can have 5 of these for the cost of one Rod. The situation where you would actually run out... is unusual to the say the least. Furthermore unlike the Rod, Staff gives you the option to use *ALL* your charges in one day if you really need to.


Anzyr wrote:

You... really have no idea how Staff of the Master works do you? A few corrections since your corrections have some glaring flaws.

"No more than one feat can be applied to a spell cast by the wielder in this way."

Means you can only apply one feat using the Staff of Master. It does not mean that you cannot apply a metamagic feat with Staff of the Master to a spell that already has metamagic feats on it. So close, please try again.

I'm highly amused at your selective use of RAW in our discussions. You'll argue that RAW says that a GM can't have anything else muck with a wizard using planar binding because that is all the spell says, but are going to argue that 'No more than one feat can be applied to a spell cast by the wielder in this way' is somehow deeply nuanced and applies only to feats applied by the staff?

The Rules as Written (and I believe RAI) is pretty clear. "No more than one feat can be applied to a spell cast by the wielder in this way." It doesn't say "no more than one feat can be applied at a time using this staff". There is no allowance built in here for pre-metamagic'ed spells. Your assumption of one is just that, an assumption that likely goes against both RAW and RAI.

Anzyr wrote:
Next, the only time the "1 charge per day" is going to come up if your for some reason constantly adventuring. 5 days off is enough time to fully recharge a single staff (and again you can have close to 6 of these for the price of one metamagic rod.

Or if an adventure takes more than one day to finish? For instance like many Pathfinder Adventure Paths assume (and many Dungeon Adventure Paths assumed before that). I don't think I've ever experienced the whole "one day of adventuring = done for a week' thing at high levels.

Anzyr wrote:
I'm sorry but Staff of the Master is just plain better.

A questionable claim at best that depends on your particular reading of something and a particular type of campaign that is set only at high levels (17+) and involves a week of downtime for every day of adventuring.

Anzyr wrote:
Edit: @ Kain Darkwind - You can stack metamagic with Staff of the Master. You are however limited to only applying one feat with it as above. Your Demiplane is permanent so it doesn't cost you anything more then a 5th level spell slot to return to it. And again... it takes a whopping 5 days to fully recharge a staff. And remember you can have 5 of these for the cost of one Rod. The situation where you would actually run out... is unusual to the say the least.

Still talking about levels 17+ exclusively. How adorable. I also love how it is 'only' 5 days off to recharge the staff.

Anzyr wrote:
Furthermore unlike the Rod, Staff gives you the option to use *ALL* your charges in one day if you really need to.

Right... I can't use all three charges of my metamagic rod today or.... wait a minute...


Your demiplane also doesn't exist until 17th level at the very soonest. So there's that.

As for a whopping 5 days, I guess you run at a lighter pace than my guys. Which is perfectly ok, no one has the same kind of game. They need to save the world though, and you need to chat with wish granting simulacrum genies and succubi while recharging your five expended staves. It's sort of like that guy in Red Dwarf who spent time in the stasis chamber, not existing, so he could have the body of an eighty seven year old by the time he was ninety. Except you're getting older twice as fast, so maybe more like him in reverse.

As for your interpretation of the staff's text, it could be valid. So could Peter's, and given how the FAQ ruled on rod shenanigans, it seems possible if not probable that he's right and you're wrong.


Peter Stewart wrote:
Anzyr wrote:

You... really have no idea how Staff of the Master works do you? A few corrections since your corrections have some glaring flaws.

"No more than one feat can be applied to a spell cast by the wielder in this way."

Means you can only apply one feat using the Staff of Master. It does not mean that you cannot apply a metamagic feat with Staff of the Master to a spell that already has metamagic feats on it. So close, please try again.

I'm highly amused at your selective use of RAW in our discussions. You'll argue that RAW says that a GM can't have anything else muck with a wizard using planar binding because that is all the spell says, but are going to argue that 'No more than one feat can be applied to a spell cast by the wielder in this way' is somehow deeply nuanced and applies only to feats applied by the staff?

The Rules as Written (and I believe RAI) is pretty clear. "No more than one feat can be applied to a spell cast by the wielder in this way." It doesn't say "no more than one feat can be applied at a time using this staff". There is no allowance built in here for pre-metamagic'ed spells. Your assumption of one is just that, an assumption that likely goes against both RAW and RAI.

Anzyr wrote:
Next, the only time the "1 charge per day" is going to come up if your for some reason constantly adventuring. 5 days off is enough time to fully recharge a single staff (and again you can have close to 6 of these for the price of one metamagic rod.

Or if an adventure takes more than one day to finish? For instance like many Pathfinder Adventure Paths assume (and many Dungeon Adventure Paths assumed before that). I don't think I've ever experienced the whole "one day of adventuring = done for a week' thing at high levels.

Anzyr wrote:
I'm sorry but Staff of the Master is just plain better.
A questionable claim at best that depends on your particular reading of something and a particular type of campaign that is set only at high levels (17+) and...

It isn't nauced. RAW, the Staff is clearly talking about metamagic feats applied by the Staff since the sentence follows:

"In addition, this staff can be used to cast spells using any metamagic feats known by the wielder without increasing the spell’s level."

Without:

"No more than one feat can be applied to a spell cast by the wielder in this way."

Then the way the first sentence reads it would imply that I could use all 10 charges to pay for metamagic feats I know. I'm sorry but the second line limits that first line to only 1 feat and does not prevent you from applying a metamagic feat to a spell that already has metamagic.

If the adventure takes more then one day to finish 5 Staffs are still superior, giving 10 uses of Quicken to your Rod's measly 6. Unless you adventure for 4 days straight, the Staffs are the Superior option handily.

I can't think of many adventure paths (beside Carrion Crown) that don't have pretty generous downtime allowances, so quite frankly recharging the staffs is easy. (Mind you I actually recharge all mine in a single day thanks to Simulacrums but that's neither here nor there.)

Also its not just levels 17+ where the Staff is superior. it's ability to apply metamagic on the fly and without requiring an extremely expensive make it far more flexible while also being cheaper. There are scenarios where it is worse, but these are all fairly unlikely.

Your final comment regarding using all your charges... for the price of 1 Rod... I have access to 10 uses of Quicken in one day if need be. So ya...

And honestly no Kain Darkwind it doesn't take me 5 days to recharge my Staffs, it takes me one day thanks to the above mentioned Simulacrums. Furthermore I do my Simulacrum crafting and Symbols + Permanency on the free off day I get in my plane while the world moves at normal time, so none of this impacts my adventuring at all.

Also, what's all this "17th+ level" nonsense... you do realize that Planar Binding is only an 6th level spell right? So this is more 11th/12th level territory.


Thank you Anzyr for demonstrating just how far from the baseline you are with your claims. Those that play the game in the way you seem to assume will no doubt appreciate your valuable contribution.

For everyone else, it is now obvious exactly where you ground your assumptions. It's usually only a matter of time before you fly off into simulacrum / planar binding / demiplane justifications.

I think I'm done here.


Peter Stewart wrote:

Thank you Anzyr for demonstrating just how far from the baseline you are with your claims. Those that play the game in the way you seem to assume will no doubt appreciate your valuable contribution.

For everyone else, it is now obvious exactly where you ground your assumptions. I think I'm done here.

Well that is why its only for people in the know. If everybody was in the know, then how would we determine who was in the know and who wasn't? You know?


Still trying to figure out how you recharge staves quicker than the RAW allow.

"A staff cannot gain more than one charge per day, and a caster cannot imbue more than one staff per day."

That means if a staff is down 10 charges, it will take 10 days (Or 10 half days in your magical world of half time), period. No matter how many simulacrums you have to recharge them.


Huh, so it is I thought it was per caster, but ya I guess each Staff is a one per day thing. Still having multiple and recharging them with the help of your simulacrums significantly cuts down the time required to recharge them, since it lets you refill all your staves in 5 outside time days.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Which is a perfectly reasonable and non-game breaking use for simulacrums, although that does add 5000 gp to the cost of the staves, as well as 22,500 gp to the overall operation.

Which leaves me with the impression that the Staff of the Master is a cool item that provides the possibility of a little bit of extra pep when situations turn really ugly at a cheaper rate than a metamagic rod. But I can't pretend it is a replacement for them on a regular basis even at high levels.

Wait a minute, that sounds familiar.


Except its 100% more versatile and can actually be used to stack metamagic making it vastly superior again outside of a scenario where you need to adventure for 4 days straight which even then thanks to the demiplane your still getting 2 charges per day, so you'll get 8 charges back over the course of those days... hrm... actually you may need to go more days straight to make the staffs worse.


Rod
Pros:

3/day
Auto recharge
No knowledge of feat required
Works with pre-existing metamagic without questionable interpretation of RAW
Lower level rods cost less than staff

Cons
Higher level rods cost more than staff
Set metamagic feat per rod

Staff
Pros:
10 charges to be divided however you see fit per day, including the casting of some minor spells.
Can be used with any feat you know
Cheaper than normal +2 or better and minor quicken rods

Cons
Requires daily recharge, which even with an army of simulacrums (costing a minimum of 2500 gp each) and magical slow time worlds (costing 22,500), will be at a rate of 2 charges per real day.
Does not allow more than one metamagic feat per RAW
Requires knowledge of metamagic you intend to use

I like the staff of the master, but you are the only one calling out arbitrary stats like '100% more versatile', or trying to suggest that the elite prefer it exclusively to a metamagic rod. Seems like a hard driving adventure would keep you from ducking back and forth to get the rods recharged. (though if your simulacrums could cast planeshift and teleport themselves, they could come get them instead of you losing half a day to the task)


"In addition, this staff can be used to cast spells using any metamagic feats known by the wielder without increasing the spell’s level. This consumes a number of charges equal to the number of spell levels increased by the feat. No more than one feat can be applied to a spell cast by the wielder in this way. Using the staff for this purpose does not increase the casting time of the spell."

Clearly, the staff of the master has a restriction against casting spells with multiple metamagic feats attached. "In this way" means using the staff to add a metamagic. "No more than one feat" means you can't metamagic a spell with the staff that you've already metamagiced.


That said, I think I'd pick one up when I can afford it so that I have access to one or two uses of all of my metamagic feats after burning through all my high level spell slots. It would be good for that. It would also be good for use with daze spell and the highest level damaging spell you have if you were panicking.


I tend to think that by strict RAW Peter is correct. A very silly but technically correct reading would say that things spell focus and spell penetration would not apply. I tend to think that "in this way" refers to how you apply the feat and that would mean no more the one feat from a staff.

Also you could recharge the staff in 0 time by casting time stop and going to plane that is timeless in regards to magic.


If the plane is timeless, then you can't ever recharge the staff. Once a day and time never moves beyond that point.


The endless timestop gives you all the time you need. You could live 2 centuries if you wanted in that time stop. Not only could you recharge all your starves, you could even craft more of them if you had all the parts for it.

I am not say I would allow this in my game more then once but I think it works.


Mathius wrote:

The endless timestop gives you all the time you need. You could live 2 centuries if you wanted in that time stop. Not only could you recharge all your starves, you could even craft more of them if you had all the parts for it.

I am not say I would allow this in my game more then once but I think it works.

No it doesn't because timeless means no time passes, which means you never get off that first day, which means you can't charge the staff more than once.


The timeless trait on a plane does not mean that time does not pass. It can be in regards to hunger or poison or whatever. If you choose magic then any spell that is not instant has duration permanent until dispels or dismissed.

Since time stop has duration I can experience as much time as like before plane shift away. Once I do all those extra rounds catch up and that would mean that the spell ends but that is okay since I just did several days worth of stuff in no time.

Are you saying that recharge of a staff is linked to actual passage of time on the plane you are on and not to the subjective time that it experiences?


bfobar wrote:

"In addition, this staff can be used to cast spells using any metamagic feats known by the wielder without increasing the spell’s level. This consumes a number of charges equal to the number of spell levels increased by the feat. No more than one feat can be applied to a spell cast by the wielder in this way. Using the staff for this purpose does not increase the casting time of the spell."

Clearly, the staff of the master has a restriction against casting spells with multiple metamagic feats attached. "In this way" means using the staff to add a metamagic. "No more than one feat" means you can't metamagic a spell with the staff that you've already metamagiced.

The third line "No more then one feat can be applied to a spell cast by the wielder in this way." very clearly applies to the first and second sentences, which otherwise would permit you to apply as many metamagic feats as you had charges. Furthermore, "in this way" is also referencing back to those first two sentences and instructing you that the staff can only add one metamagic feat to the spell via the method outlined in the first two sentences. It's really pretty clear RAW that you can apply more metamagic feats to a spell cast with a the Staff, provided they are not applied "in this way" by the staff.


The fact that there are two differing interpretations means that it is not, in fact, clear.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Just remember this one important rule for being a BLOCKBUSTER Wizard.

Be Kind Please Rewind.


Peter Stewart wrote:
I'm highly amused at your selective use of RAW in our discussions. You'll argue that RAW says that a GM can't have anything else muck with a wizard using planar binding because that is all the spell says, but are going to argue that 'No more than one feat can be applied to a spell cast by the wielder in this way' is somehow deeply nuanced and applies only to feats applied by the staff?

What do you think that bit I bolded means? Really, what does it mean?

I'm pointing it out because to interpret the function of the staff the way you have, you have to ignore that part of the line. Which is curious.

Do you think it means nothing?

Peter Stewart wrote:


The Rules as Written (and I believe RAI) is pretty clear. "No more than one feat can be applied to a spell cast by the wielder in this way." It doesn't say "no more than one feat can be applied at a time using this staff". There is no allowance built in here for pre-metamagic'ed spells. Your assumption of one is just that, an assumption that likely goes against both RAW and RAI.

The bolded part is exactly what it says. "In this way" directly refers to adding metamagic via the function of the staff. That is exactly what it means.


bfobar wrote:

"In addition, this staff can be used to cast spells using any metamagic feats known by the wielder without increasing the spell’s level. This consumes a number of charges equal to the number of spell levels increased by the feat. No more than one feat can be applied to a spell cast by the wielder in this way. Using the staff for this purpose does not increase the casting time of the spell."

Clearly, the staff of the master has a restriction against casting spells with multiple metamagic feats attached. "In this way" means using the staff to add a metamagic. "No more than one feat" means you can't metamagic a spell with the staff that you've already metamagiced with the staff.

I added to your reading, to make it a true statement. My addition is in italics.

201 to 250 of 399 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Brewer's Guide to the Blockbuster Wizard All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.