The Pataks("Drakelings" in Common) are a race branch on the family tree of dragons, though they are starting to flourish as they find their places in different areas of the world.
Race breakdown, variants, and some Favored Class Bonuses:
Small(0 rp)
Slow(-1 rp)
Weakness(-1 rp) (+2 Dex, +2 Cha, -4 Str) Not nearly as strong as their distant cousins, Drakelings still cary themselves with grace.
Linguist(1 rp) Common and Draconic
Natural Armor(1 rp) +1 Natural Armor
Skilled(1rp) Stealth +2
Climb(2rp)
Flight(4rp) 30ft, clumsy.
Bite(1 rp)
Elemental Vulnerability(-4rp) cold
Total RP: 16
Variants Aquatic
Loses: Flight and Climb
Gains: Amphibious, Water Sense, and Swim
Changes: Elemental Vulnerability(cold) to Elemental Vulnerability(electricity)
Underground
Loses: Flight and Elemental Vulnerability
Gains: Expert Climber
Plains
Loses: Climb and Flight
Gains: Normal Speed, Fast, Sprinter, Fleet, and Vestigial Wings
Favored Class Bonuses
Alchemist: +1/2 Bomb Damage
Barbarian: +1/4 Natural Armor
Druid: +1/5 flight maneuverability Clumsy to poor(lv5), poor to average(lv10), average to good(lv15), good to perfect(lv20)
Magus: +1/4 to Arcana Pool
Because I didn't want them Large, or even Medium. The idea was that they are dragons, but distant from even Wyverns or real Drakes. There are too many Medium races anyway.
Your point values are way off on quite a few things, as is your math. As they are listed now you only add up to 4 RP. I'm not even going to try and sort that mess out. I'd recommend rebuilding them from the ground up with the race creation book in front of you as you do it. Also, since you're using advanced traits you might as well go ahead and admit your race is advanced and take the 20 points and eat the LA.
As to the fluff, all I'm really getting is winged kobold that walks with a limp.
My math was off by two it seems. I also forgot to list them as having the Dragon type.
10 - 1 - 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 2 + 4 + 1 - 4 = 14
And I had the book in front of me. The values listed are straight from the book. As for advanced, there are non-advanced races with more Race Points but no "LA". Like Fetchlings.
Are we pretending the rules for anything will ever be balanced? Because people have different veiws on balance. Not that this little discussion has anything to do with Pataks...
Looks kinda like Winged Kobolds? I advise great caution against giving a PC race flight to start with. Most tables I know of pretend the Strix doesn't exist.
But otherwise, what niche are these guys filling that kobolds aren't, as small, weak, distant relatives of dragons? I mean, given that they fly, they make for very safe sorcerers. They're pretty much shoehorned into casting (preferably with Cha).
Are we pretending the rules for anything will ever be balanced? Because people have different veiws on balance. Not that this little discussion has anything to do with Pataks...
It does, because the ARG race-crafting rules aren't just the sort that "have problems here and there" but are actually a complete joke. They just don't balance things well at all.
I mean look at it.
+1 CMD is the same as +2 to an ability score? (Hello, +2 Strength and +2 Dex are tremendously better!)
+2 Strength is worth as much as +2 Charisma? Heck, even +2 Con is better than +2 Charisma.
+2 Dodge (which stacks with everything) priced at the same amount as Breeze-kissed which is much more limited?
Etc, etc, etc. There are loads of bizarre things like that.
I'll check out your race for balance in a little bit, but I advice you compare it to the core races and work from there.
The race itself is a cool idea, but instead of giving them the -4 to strength, why not the average -2 for standard, otherwise you might as well play the kobold with the feat tree for flight.
My math was off by two it seems. I also forgot to list them as having the Dragon type.
10-1-1+1+1+1+2+4+1-4
And I had the book in front of me. The values listed are straight from the book. As for advanced, there are non-advanced races with more Race Points but no "LA". Like Fetchlings.
Skilled is also 2 points, not 1. Elemental vulnerability is -2, not -4. (And those are the only 2 point values I actually bothered to look up, so it is wrong 100% of the times I bothered to check.) Like I said, everything there is a mess, you really need to rebuild from the ground up, with the book in front of you, if you want to get the points even close to right.
And Paizo, can do things against the rules and get away with it, you, however, are advised to follow the rules. (Especially if you want other people to comment on your work.)
Two things, it seems. Tell, had I not said I was using the race builder and changed the names of a few abilities around, would you even care half as much about my points being a few points off? A bit of wrong math does not not require a restart.
Value on natural armor is off by 1 point (listed as 1 point when it's 2 points for +1).
The Strength penalty is too high for my tastes.
I'd dump the dragon type which is really just too expensive for what it gives for:
Type: Humanoid (reptilian, dragonblood)
Draconic Immunities (2 RP) Benefit: Members of this race are immune to sleep and paralysis effects. (based on Duergar immunities)
Senses (3 RP) Darkvision 60 feet, low-light vision.
Languages (0 RP) Common and Draconic (Standard)
I like the idea myself, but I'm going to agree with what Da'ath is saying. Make it a humaniod. Maybe a lighter version of the Dragon Disciple, but more draconic than human.
The walking on four legs is going to turn a lot of people off.
And Paizo, can do things against the rules and get away with it, you, however, are advised to follow the rules. (Especially if you want other people to comment on your work.)
What sort of ridiculous draconian policy are you trying to enforce here? This is a HOMEBREW section. He doesn't have to follow something paizo made. That's half the point of a section like this.
I particularly see no point in following a section that clearly has no idea how to balance the options against each other. That way leads to madness.
Far better to design a balanced race by carefully comparing it to the existing races. That'll actually get you somewhere.
Sorry, OP, I'll give you my carefully considered advice after I sleep. I work nights so Drachasor must take a nap now.
....
As for the point of a quadruped. Well, you could have someone ride you I suppose, and with Mounted Combat negate an attack each round. But I wasn't thinking of that. I was actually thinking of going with something more like a Faerie/Pseudo-dragon as a base, maybe adding in a Kitsune-like shapechanging ability -- though I don't think the latter is necessary. Might be fun to emphasize the DRAGON part of things.
Two things, it seems. Tell, had I not said I was using the race builder and changed the names of a few abilities around, would you even care half as much about my points being a few points off? A bit of wrong math does not not require a restart.
Not really, no. However, you did use the race builder and while I'm not a huge fan of the race builder, if you're going to use it, you should at least do it right. It would literally take probably 10 minutes to sit down with a book (or d20pfsrd.com) and look up each of the qualities and write down their points and see where you're at, the fact that I wouldn't care if you hadn't used the race builder doesn't excuse being too sloppy or too lazy to use it properly.
As to the actual race itself, like everyone else here (and like I said earlier) it looks like a kobold with wings. I'm sorry, I'm just not impressed. It isn't new, edgy, or anything special. Put some effort into their fluff and maybe you'd have people talking about that. Really, baring gross imbalances, that's the most important part anyway.
Drachasor wrote:
ShadowcatX wrote:
And Paizo, can do things against the rules and get away with it, you, however, are advised to follow the rules. (Especially if you want other people to comment on your work.)
What sort of ridiculous draconian policy are you trying to enforce here? This is a HOMEBREW section. He doesn't have to follow something paizo made. That's half the point of a section like this.
No policy, just the idea that if you're going to follow a set of rules that you at least attempt to follow the rules. Either do it, or don't do it, don't half ***ed do it.
Now as to that part of the book being poorly balanced, I agree. It has issues. But I will also point out that I'm not the one who chose to use that part of the book, the O.P. did. Besides, for its flaws, it is a starting place and that's not nothing.
I like the idea myself, but I'm going to agree with what Da'ath is saying. Make it a humaniod. Maybe a lighter version of the Dragon Disciple, but more draconic than human.
The walking on four legs is going to turn a lot of people off.
I have a draconic elf race that is in may ways similar to what he's presented, minus the quadrupedal aspect, so I agree. I like his version far better than the PF kobold.
As far as the quadrupedal trait, I'd probably handle it in this manner:
The Patak Shuffle (Ex) (2 RP & trait name change) When walking or running, you may switch from walking on two legs to walking on four limbs, as a swift action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. When moving on all four limbs, +4 racial bonus to CMD against trip attempts and a +10 foot bonus to their base speed, but may not use any weapons requiring hands, nor may you carry anything in your hands while running in this position. Your height on four legs is 1/3 your normal height. You may thus freely go under some obstacles that might otherwise provide obstruction to movement.
Returning to two legs requires a move action and provokes attacks of opportunity.
Dragons have:
Darkvision 60 feet and low-light vision.
Immunity to magic sleep effects and paralysis effects.
Proficient with its natural weapons only unless humanoid in form (or capable of assuming humanoid form), in which case proficient with all simple weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
Proficient with no armor.
Dragons breathe, eat, and sleep.
Bold items are what Dragons have but Elves don't. Now, paralysis is actually pretty rare, and Dark Vision is nice, but most of the time Low-Light vision is just as good or better -- light sources are VERY easy to come by. So I don't think we need to trade in much to justify those abilities.
Now let's change the +2 Int to +2 Cha. In general, +2 Int is just BETTER. Gives you skills, helps on a number of skills, and just as good for casting. Int helps all classes. Charisma just helps a few (And the +1 bonus to Cha skills is nothing compared to +1 sp/level from int).
Make it small (typically comes with -2 strength, +2 Dex since that typically balances things out):
-2 Str, +4 Dex, -2 Con, +2 Cha
Well, +2 Dex is a bit much, we'll drop it and the -2 Con.
-2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Cha
Let's make the following adjustments to the rest of the Elf abilities:
Humanoid(Elf) -> Humanoid AND Dragon types.
Languages: Common and Elven. -> Common and Draconic
Resistance: +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells and effects. -> Immunity to Paralysis
You might wonder about this, but Enchantment spells and effects are a lot more common that Paralysis effects. So that +2 bonus gets a lot more work. Personally, I think it balances out.
Keen Senses: Elves receive a +2 racial bonus on Perception checks. -> No Change. Looks good for Dragons!
Elven Magic: Elves receive a +2 racial bonus on caster level checks made to overcome spell resistance. In addition, elves receive a +2 racial bonus on Spellcraft skill checks made to identify the properties of magic items. -> +2 Spellcraft, magic is in a dragon's blood.
Weapon Familiarity: Elves are proficient with longbows (including composite longbows), longswords, rapiers, and shortbows (including composite shortbows), and treat any weapon with the word “elven” in its name as a martial weapon. -> Wings: Glide when falling, 30 feet of horizontal movement for every 10 feet dropped.
So we have:
-2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Cha Small Humanoid Languages: Common and Draconic
Dragon: Drakelings are dragons. They have the Dragon type and are counted as both humanoid and dragons for spells and abilities that affect either.
Senses: Being Dragons, Drakelings have 60' Dark Vision and Lowlight vision.
Draconic Vigor: Drakelings are immune to sleep and paralysis.
Dragon Skills: Drakelings receive a +2 bonus on all Spellcraft and Perception checks.
Wings: Glide when falling, 30 feet of horizontal movement for every 10 feet dropped.
Have a feet at 9th level that allows Flight, 30' speed...just like an Aasimar's Wings.
Not sure about favored class bonuses, but for Sorcerer's they should have the same bonus humans have.
I think that would work pretty well. I'll look into modifying a Kitsune later.
